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MUD Reminiscence Wall-of-Text:fnordcircle posted:Not having to futz around with graphics means that tons of features can be implemented in short order without having to make a new model and skins, etc. While this is cool in theory, I feel there's not enough interesting development on. Almost everything is an array of DIKU derivatives, and there are very few attempts to mix it up--at least in a game-play perspective. I guess the roleplaying MU* people have a huge array of different setups though I suppose. My MUDding carrer: I started off playing a bunch of normal MUDs. I remember being a builder on a SMAUG once. I thought I was top poo poo, but I bet my stuff was dumb if it was still around to look at. That was like eight years ago and only lasted a short bit. I played a bunch of small MUDs short term, but always was distracted after a couple of months. I played on a social MUSH called '8-bit' off and on for a long time that was a big coding experiment. It emerged from one general social MUSH when a bunch of players got together and decided to split off. It featured open coding for all players, and a bunch of settings that sort of facilitated. You got some coins every day, every object cost a coin to create, and the idea was that, by coding objects other players wanted, you could sell them and make more money. The admin was a little eccentric, and there was a lot of drama with players and the admin going to other MU*s and raiding them, pulling crap, being annoying etc. It was still cool though. Played some DnD games; it was nice because it served as a sort of chat room that you could code in, so when we needed dice and things, we just coded them up right there. Another really neat feature is that you were expected to log on using terminal font (I think there was another font too that people used). This did two things: first, it made it so everything was predicibly spaced, and people used that to code all kinds of interface things that were reminicent of old DOS games. Second, by using four terminal characters that were basically different ratios of dots, you could take your original black, white, cyan, magenta, yellow, green, blue and highlighted versions, and mix them at different ratios to form different colored squares. Everyone was expected to have 80 width screens, so you could use this to draw pictures. The admin even coded a program that let you draw with these and would then output it into a string you could put into the game. To get past the maximum character issue of attributes you could assign, you would chain several attributes together into one attribute all on one object, and then it would output several in order. Played some RP MUSHes when I was younger, but tended to get bored of those pretty fast too. Other interesting MUD experiences I recall that I feel are worth mentioning: There was one MUD that shut down that I don't remember the name of where the person made it basically a strategy RPG. It might have been testing for later implementation into a bigger sense, but you had a stable of characters you made, selecting names and classes, and then you used a lobby system to enter a vs match on an ascii board. You'd fight with your guys, they would gain levels, you could level them up. Repeat. Really sweet, one of the things I would love to have seen take off, but it failed. I played a game called Raefermand I think, which was based off a MUD called Kingdoms? Or Kingdoms was based off of it? I don't remember. It had a lot of complex stuff that I took for technical wizardry, but I don't really remember it. It had a lot of races with different sizes, a complex trade skill/item creation system with things requiring things based on what size you were, normal MUD trappings, and an overworld you could build on to build a kingdom. There weren't a lot of players when I played, and generally it sort of dissolved into pretty much everyone ruling their own little micro nation. I always thought it could be cool to have major kingdoms that could be raided, warring, etc, with some players focusing on building and strategy, and some players going around killing. Never really went like that though. I beleive the GM went off to try and small-team develop some MMO that's probably going nowhere. More recently, there was one where you played a dinosaur. You couldn't talk, you could mate, but that was weird so I didn't do it. You could run around, hunt, and get food to eat. Played it almost alone for two days, it was neat; got better, killed some things. Found another player, managed to communicate successfully enough via emotes to kill some bigger dinosaur. Obviously a game near impossible to build a community with, I felt as if it were spawned out of some parody or a bet. I tried to play GodWars2 once. I thought the system of build your character from whatever via stats and advantages and disadvantages was cool. The combat was confusing and the movement system felt like driving a boat since you did things like pick facing and walk or something like that. Very complex and I'm sure once you get used to it, it's kind of cool. I vaguely remember some MechWarrior MUDs that seemed neat. I didn't really play them, but now that I think about them, they probably were pretty cool. Anyone have some experience with them? I seem to remember them being customizable and what not. Speaking of FASA, there is (was?) a Shadowrun MUD called Awake Twenty Sixty-something. You made a character like in third edition shadowrun using priorities, and could run NPC missions. I think there were events too you could participate in. I also tried some Shadowrun RP MUSHes, because Shadowrun was fun, but I seem to remember everyone sitting in apartments cybering or some such, except for the one time when I got in on a game plot--along with like twelve other people, making it completely useless. That leads me to a DnD MUSH. I don't remember much, but it was third edition DnD. Players would run adventures for one another, and you would get xp both for playing or running. I played a couple of adventures. Ran one or two. It was pretty neat. HellMOO is probably the single best example of a MUD that gets updated. My problem with MUDs is they don't change the formula enough, and I love that HellMOO changes things a lot, and continually updates. It lacked playability for me personally, but I enjoy getting online every few months, seeing what's been added, and then logging off. Lusterna seemed cool wth its planar stuff, large playerbase, and Space MUDs: I wanted to try one of the space MUDs (there was a thread about it, but I couldn't remember the name; M-something?). It seemed to be mainly about trade with a very simple combat system and mostly either harvesting asteroids or something else. Ended up not being what I wanted, and I feel I maybe should have just played trade wars or something. The other thing I tried were Star Wars MUDs. They seemed kind of cool, but lacking. I wanted to make some sort of soldier, or thief, or medic or something, and go travelling through space adventures with a crew. Instead, I seem to remember mining on Lorrd while some people were roleplaying political conversations over the radio without really sounding like public speaking in any fashion. Fake edit: riding ASCII bicycle: when I would play WoW with my friends, they would sometimes wonder why I would just say things like, 'l' or especially 'i' in party chat sometimes. I had just been mudding for a few days.
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Mar 18, 2010 22:58
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 22:22 |
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Sweet, giant double post.
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Mar 18, 2010 23:00
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Anomalous Blowout posted:Armageddon just finished up a really fun player-run event. The fighting tournament was absolutely crazy, haha. I just got into Armageddon. I have no idea what to do. I'm terrified to use any skill at all.
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May 27, 2011 05:44
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Pieuvre posted:Oh man, memories. I totally spent a crapload of time in high school playing Realms of Despair (I've tried to go back a couple of times and ended up drawing the same conclusions as Rabbi each time, though). Was it Rafermmand? That was cool and at the end he was transitioning across two structures, both of which had features similar to conquest imo. Also, I think kingdoms codebase did that as well.
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Jun 1, 2011 22:40
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I played Legends of the Jedi for a day or two once, wishing I could crew onto another players ship as muscle and just follow them around and beat things up for them, but I couldn't figure out how to make that happen so I just quit.
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Jun 7, 2011 06:07
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I have some anti-grind character points on LotJ from making characters, playing for a while, and then quitting. Maybe I should come back. How anal are the admins? Are people allowed to talk to each other and assume we've met in the past, or do they want us to make all of our contacts via gameplay?
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Jun 12, 2011 15:58
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That makes sense, I just have nobody specifically to do that with. I just like the idea of a group of people crewing a ship a la Firefly, filling various roles, and serving as smugglers/mercenaries. This seems contrary to the game's focus which seems to be either solo in nature, or joining a large faction. I can't figure out how to set something like that up ICly--other than maybe putting out some ads: "Mercenary captain looking for crew mates for nefarious activity, apply within!"
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Jun 12, 2011 17:55
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I call it the MudConnect cycle, where I go on mudconnecter every couple of months, look at the retarded furry superhero sex muds on the front page, laugh, see something and go, "Oh, that's a good idea" then connect and find it was minimally implemented, and it's really just another person doing another diku-style MUD. Edit: We welcome players of all kinds, to play both established Feature Characters and exciting Original Characters. At Flights 'n Tights, the name of the game is hot superheroes having sexy fun...but they have adventures too, and they fight villains! Every player character is encouraged to be played a gay or bisexual male, although female characters and straight supporting cast are more than welcome to be emitted!
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Jul 1, 2011 00:35
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I've started LotJ like five times, and I probably have all kinds of don't have to grind points, but I still have no idea how to play it. It's really weird.
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Sep 2, 2011 16:01
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I just logged onto an old character on LotJ, which apparently is still around. I should probably just start over with a bunch of skills, but I figure'd maybe I should learn to play first. I guess I should just join a clan as well?
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Sep 2, 2011 22:52
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Another swing by MUD connector.quote:In the futile era of japan, rumors of demons and demon
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Sep 20, 2011 15:42
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Oh great, I was making fun of a blind guy that likes anime  /\/\/\ Edit: We'd probably all get banned in less than a day, and we'd have to spend a week in silent and secret grinding in order to get to the point to be annoying, unless we found some sort of retarded RP reason to exist. piL fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 5, 2011 |
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Oct 5, 2011 19:01
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Oh hey Walldo! I just always assumed since it was an RP MUD you'd all be jerks about outside players meeting up or whatever ( ie Armageddon ), so sweet glad to see it! Players who want to goon might want to jump in now to get an idea on how to play (which btw, I don't really know how to play), but I don't think we could get much done before the era change. Edit: And I'm definitely in for allying with some goons then 
piL fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 9, 2011 |
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Oct 9, 2011 19:09
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The reason I doubt that is because I'd expect only four or five goons to go through with it, at most.
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Oct 10, 2011 16:14
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Funkmaster General posted:irc.synirc.org #pressure. I think I'd like to help out with this stuff. Did a lot of MUSH coding in a long-ago era. Probably would want to start with small tasks instead of great big projects. I'll see you in channel.
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Sep 30, 2012 16:43
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Pochoclo posted:It's obviously super green, but I always thought that most of the current MOO/MUDs are running on ancient engines, and I wonder when we'll see some new pseudo-MUDs that more easily integrate with a web UI come up. Last time I was looking for a more modern code base, I found Evennia. It has some nice modern features that could be developed into something cool. There are web-api features built-in, but I'm mostly too stupid for that sort of stuff. On an only tangentially related note: I think think there are some underused ways to exploit the strengths of a text-based medium that could make MUDs more relevant as you simply cannot provide the same experience in other games. * Content generation is easy for MUDs compared to visual games, but there's still barriers (limited numbers of admins, needing to code, etc). I think developing ways for players to submit ideas, weed out the chaff, and integrate that content while minimizing the involvement of the administration, could result in super-content rich MUDs. I played a MUD that had randomly generated dungeons once, and it was cool, but everything got samey fast. But if 50 people played regularly and each wrote a good room description a month, an item a week, and so on, and that was somehow integrated into the game automatically, you'd have 300 unique rooms and 2400 unique items from the investment of a system designed to encourage and integrate player-submission. This would only grow with player-count and time. * Text-based games don't need to follow the same spatial rules that a visuak game has to. This is very important; I think most games try to make room sizes roughly the same, or stick to a grid and so on. There is some stepping away from this. For example, in HellMOO, there were transition rooms between areas that represented traveling along a path instead of a specific path along an area. I'd be interested to see alternate concepts for physical space. Instead of rooms representing physical space, what if rooms were actions, and then the game compared how likely different actions were to run into one other. Like one person could be in a room called "travelling from town A to town B" and a group of players are in a room "patrolling the space between town A and town B" and every tick the game applies some formula to compare the likelihood these people will run into one another, or that an event will occur for the character travelling or for the patrol. This doesn't work in a traditional MMO, because players are more involved in the specifics, but I think there's potential for this in MUDs (and web-games too I suppose). I'd just like to see people take the opportunity to provide radically different systems. * On a similar note, there are lots of other ways to do conflict resolution. This is basically what everyone in TG is constantly wanking about, but in MUDs its pretty much always a retextured D&D. Maybe your hitpoints change every level, maybe it's points, but it's basically some structure where you make an opponents hp go to zero before yours and then you win, and then you heal up and go fight another thing. gently caress that. Something as simple as aping Shadowrun's health system where you have a set status condition, and you instead resist damage that comes in is a good touch. But combat doesn't even have to be an all or nothing thing. The Mouse Guard RPG has a conflict resolution system where the battle itself determines where along a path of possible outcomes. If a group of seasoned vets go up against a group of untrained whelps, it's not a contest to see whether (very likely) the vets win and kill all the whelps or (very rare) the whelps win and kill all of the vets. Rather, the gameplay determines whether when the vets win did some of the whelps get away? Did one of the vets get injured in the process? Etc. It's a very different way of thinking about conflict than I've ever seen a MUD use, but I think could be well suited to the MUD experience. Instead, the rules were basically set up in 1980 and the core hasn't changed much since. Sorry for what was supposed to be a short rant turning into a novel. It's stuff I've been thinking about for a while, but hadn't (and probably still haven't) formulated into a coherent thought.
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Oct 3, 2012 20:48
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I think punishing people on their degree of failure would be really different. Almost all MUDs break down combat as either "you kill the mobile", "you escape from the mobile" or "the mobile kills you". "You succeed at the task" or "you fail at the task and hurt yourself". There really are other options. And while MUDs are traditionally more creative, ultimately my frustration is that of course they are--putting together the assets for an image based game means you have to gamble a lot more on an idea, so they can't afford to try something new. MUDs can afford to gamble. As for using modern tools, Evennia is all python. You make python files for different things just you were making any other kind of python application, and you can code it in a traditional python IDE. I don't mean to shill for it. I don't have anything to do with it; it's just the only MU* codebase I know that's like that. Edit: Or fine, don't copy Mouse Guard, but there are systems other than decrementing hp. FPSes have proven that with shield mechanics. There's a variety of approaches to simply determining whether something should be alive or not, and I feel like there should be a variety of approaches to the multiplayer-text-game other than a low-rent WoW. Because WoW does DIKU better. piL fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 23:25
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I think there's a few different ways to look at it. But if I were going to do a conflict based system, here's how I'd go about it. I'm going to make it mostly PvE focused right now, but it could be adapted, just keeping it simple. First, the map system wouldn't be a traditional system. You could fudge a lot of things. Think about the overworld map in Final Fantasy Tactics, for example, you have different locations. Sometimes going to some you fight. Some you pick from a list whether you want to go to the store or the bar (presumably in a MUD, you'd have more options). I don't see any reason to make you navigate a grid map to go to these places. The key difference would be dungeons, which, instead of being a set map that you explore, are instead a series of encounters that you roll against. So maybe you'd have a skill challenge type thing where, when you show up to the tomb, you have to figure out how to get in. Doing really well lets you find the secret door that lets you in relatively quickly, and you'd have bonuses to that check from doing research ahead of time, or being a super cool thief-type. But if not, maybe you have to dig your way in, or bust through a large stone slab, costing you time and causing you to already start the exploration a little fatigued. Then your next encounter is an exploration. Since you're already a badass adventurer, if you do well on this part, you kill some skeletons on the way no big deal and find yourself to the room before the big-bad. If you do ok, you still find yourself there, but you're somewhat injured by a skeleton along the way. If you do really poorly, not only do you get injured, but you get lost. Then a fight with a giant skeletal construct made from twenty corpses. Doing poorly gets you captured. Doing ok gets you injured, but you escape. Rocking the hizzouse destroys the construct, then you move on to a final enounter. Meeting with the lich. You're given several options of dealing with it. Combat. Talking it into leaving the town alone. Maybe one player distracts it while another sneaks into the room and finds its phylactery. All of these being based on possible conflict setups, and also small isolated events that could be randomly selected from a much larger bank of possible options. I guess the major change here, in addition to using a conflict style system is that 'events' are the discrete unit of advancement, as opposed to 'space'. Fake Edit: I think taking a traditional MUD, but you don't actually directly control any character and instead you indirectly control a group of characters ala dwarf fortress would be amazing enough without having to get rid of all the traditional MUD mechanics. Food and item quality become important because you can't let party members get jealous or they'll get mad and kill each other. Real edit: Speaking of mobiles wimpying through guarded rooms, I think I just find MUD gameplay itself relatively non compelling, and find exploring and doing things much more fun. I did not enjoy punching crackheads or grinding in the gym, but rather just finding weird rear end things in HellMOO. piL fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 00:28
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OtspIII posted:The method you're talking about does sound like it could be fun, but I'm not sure how much replayability it would have--it gives a lot of story-power to the MUD itself, but in the process takes a bunch away from the players. In my experience you get the best stories out of a game with lots of loosely interlocking sub-systems that create a bunch of emergent content, not by creating a super tight pre-written story structure. Emergence is really tough to account for in a world that's too abstract, though, since it creates too many story branches in each and every step of the adventure. Yeah, that's fair. I'd just like to see somebody try it. Maybe I will someday (no I wont). The reason I thought down this path was the thought to include lots of other activities in a game, and the way to do that would be to include these short little challenges and have so many of them that now you're looking at big picture ripples. For example, if it's easier to generate a dungeon experience like the above, then maybe you can have longer term conflicts going on between different entities. A town vs fate, and maybe as an action that takes place on a once a day scale, in the middle of a conflict (Good: Town prospers, Med: Town suffers but survives, Bad: Town is starved out everyone moves), a dungeon like the above is formed. If players find it in the next couple of days, points go towards the plus for the town. If nobody can crack it, minus points for the town vs fate conflict. Enough of all of those things stacked, and ideally you have a mutable world that changes, which was the desired train of thought that led me here. I feel like there's a certain element of emergence there, but you probably also need tons of content before it shows up, otherwise it's just paths to the random dungeons and rapid content exhaustion.
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Oct 4, 2012 01:56
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I could do that. Do you have any links to a well-written design doc from which I can borrow style? I've never written one that wasn't an unending rant.
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Oct 4, 2012 04:54
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FordPRefectLL posted:Also, LOTJ is hardly empty. The areas are small and focused because the layout is constantly changing due to IC events. Recently, Lorrd was bombed and the entire planet was rebuilt in less than a week to reflect that, then converted to a prison by the Empire. You don't see player names unless they're introduced to you, so unless you notice differences in behavior, you don't know what's an NPC and what's not. Saying, "Uh hey, what's up. Are you real?" reads as against the rules.** Initial gameplay unless you have points amounts to setting up a script to dig for gems in a cave for a couple of hours, or jumping in a spaceship and flying back-and-forth alone for a long time. I don't doubt there's a good deal of people (mudstats says there is), and that things are going on (I remember monitoring radio channels and found one where a ton of people were engaging in some sort of Lorrdian political debate way-back-when). These things are all simply impenetrable to a new player who has to be pretty dedicated to find it and last long enough to do so. Until you do, you're just alone in a cave digging through rocks. **In fact, if I'm remembering the right MUD, asking "How to fight" or "Where can I get batteries" gets you the response, "Ask IC". Asking IC usually gets you a hamfisted response like "Let me show you the ropes young sir" or "Ah, XXXXX sells only the most premium of batteries" when the realistic response should be something to the effect of "Um, you just do it? Go watch some MMA kid, you're bothering me." or "I don't know, a grocery store? Amazon? Good luck, I'm kind of busy or I would totally walk a stranger in the street accosting me for things places. Weirdo."
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Oct 8, 2012 15:54
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Victorkm posted:Welp I bit the bullet and started playing LoTJ last night. Joined a clan but haven't really decided where I would take the character I've just recently rerolled there, been playing a bit! Account name is piL of course.
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Oct 13, 2012 12:41
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tarepanda posted:No loving OOC limits. I would like to reiterate that the very strong 'do not communicate OOCly' and 'all actions are IC' sentiments found in a number of MUDs (not just LotJ) makes for events every bit as jarring as someone talking about events OOC. Example: Last time I played, I decided it was time to join one of only two clans my character knew about. Because I knew you can't just say on OOC, "Someone sign me up for the republic", instead my character inquires on an open radio frequency for recruiting information. This is responded to by the prime minister of an entire race of peoples who personally inducted him as a member of the Republic. So while the system in place successfully integrated action from other players and ensured that there was an in-story IC reason my character was able to join the republic, that reason is his: he contacted the governor of a neighboring state via HAM radio who personally flew out and inducted him into the military.  This doesn't seem any less absurd to me than hand-waving an OOC request administered OOCly and referenced in game as him having gone to a recruiter, filled out a bunch of paperwork, and shipped to basic. That said LotJ has a dedicated playerbase, so I wouldn't really expect you to change this. It's just what kills those kinds of MUDs for me.
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Oct 22, 2012 02:47
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 22:22 |
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Bieeardo posted:The fiends. Slithy toves should be allowed to gyre and gimbal as Nature intended! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlS06IL2xI4
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Oct 23, 2012 02:23
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