|
If I wanted to play 17th/18th/Napoleonic warfare at the scale I can move companies around (to march in column of companies, deploy into line and form square) and fight at the divisional or corps level, what rules and scale should I use? 28mm is way to big to paint, but I can't work out if 6, 10 or 15mm works better, little lone which rules or figure manufacture I should choose. I don't know of anyone in my local area who actually plays anything beyond 28mm star wars or 40k so it would probably be just me collecting and painting them. I do have a dream of setting up a table and doing a Goon Lets Play of a battle (only showing a model's eye view of a battle, making terrain and scouting REALLY matter) but that would be way in the future. I'm leaning towards 18th century with the classic cavalry, infantry and artillery. No pikes (I do not understand how pikes and guns on a battlefield actually work tactically) and I think I like the hats more....but I like the idea of light infantry units acting as skirmishers when required too. Comstar fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Nov 22, 2019 |
#
¿
Nov 22, 2019 14:06
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
lilljonas posted:Sam Mustafa makes good rules in general for this kind of scale: I read the tactics and example game of Might and Reason and it sounded like what I want...but there's no book version of the rules, only a PDF. I'm being picky but this is why I;m researching it and asking here. Thanks for the help! Et sans résultat! Second Edition also looks good too, and scales to everything, though it dosn't look to be on the company level. Though I don't think many games below 28mm go below battalion level either. I think I'll need to make a choice- play at corps level with battalion units or smaller battles with companies.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2019 15:42
|
|
|
So after spending nothing for the last few days thinking about it, I think I've narrowed down the rules choice for Napoleonic warfare down to the following. I think I'm leaning to 15mm figures because you can buy entire armies pretty cheaply (compared to what I recall from 40k where it's $60 per FIGURE) Black Powder. Seems to be the most popular and really generic (I don't think the game cares about differences in artillery between 1700 to 1900 You just have a gun that shoots, no matter what size or kind it is?). From the makers of 40k, and seems to have brought along a lot of it's issues too. Lots of support from the manufacturer. Lots of people seem to love it or totally despise it. General d’Armee. Seems to be more detailed, slower, but much more command like - it has skirmisher's! Sounds like it works better for Solo play, which unless I can get a Let's Play running is all I'd be playing probably. General de Brigade: A lower scale version of General d’Armee I think? More detail but older than General d’Armee? Is the Deluxe edition another game or the same one with more rules? I can't figure that out. Et Sans Résultat Napoleonics. Larger scale I think but seems well supported too. I have had no luck finding any info on the web on any clubs who actually play any of these at all in Melbourne AUS that didn't last post an update this decade. I love (the game) and era, but no one near me is even vaguely interested. While doing research I came across a rule set that had a pre-battle rules that involved the amount of scouting each side did first, that would then go on to help dictate the start of the battle instead of "everyone's units start on the table" but I now can't find it, but it sounded really interesting because a hell of a lot of real battles worked out that way. Does anyone know what game I'm talking about?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2019 13:34
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:What What? Designer Jervis Johnson, Rick Priestley, John Stallard. Rick Priestley's name is on my copy of 40K rogue trader. I've alwatys liked Jervis 's Blood Bowl since I started in 3rd edition. John Stallard did the warhammer historical rules I think. I thought Warlord was nothing but ex-GW people? From what I've read Black Powder seems a LOT like Warhammer (2K). But not having played it I can't really tell, but the video's I've seen feel VERY familiar. Comstar fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Nov 24, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
Cessna posted:Okay, gents, get on line. Close it up. No, closer. Closer. CLOSER. Fighting modern armour at pistol range I see. You might as well arm your tank commanders with pikes, though getting out and attacking with a sword is reasonable too.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
Ilor posted:If you want to go 1/72 (20mm), there are a TON of different manufacturers and available ranges. It's actually one of the more fleshed-out scales for a variety of periods and especially WW2. What rules can do 20mm Napoleonic? They all seem to be for 15/18 or 25/28. Also, are they are any 20mm army deals?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 5, 2019 11:14
|
|
|
My First of several rule books has arrived- General de Brigade Deluxe edition.....there's a lot of rules it seems. Anyone here had any experience with it? The reviews are all pretty glowing, though it doesn't "flow" well?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 5, 2019 12:03
|
|
|
How big a table do you need for 28 mm battles beyond 40k? I am going to build a table-top for my man cave, and I can fit 6"x4" but I can probably go 8"x6" if I don't leave much room to sit around it otherwise. I'm initially talking Napoleonic scale Brigade battles using General De Brigade Deluxe or Black Powder. I also have General De Armee and I'm waiting on CHARGE and some other Donald Featherstone 40 year old war game books that are 2nd hand (mostly for old times sake). (I already ordered the Warlord Get Started Box, but might go 18 mm Eureka/AB). Comstar fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Dec 11, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2019 11:55
|
|
|
That's no table. . It''s a cathedral?!. Please link more pics and store to what battle that is? Looks too flat for Waterloo.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 11, 2019 13:13
|
|
|
My mid-life crises continued and I now have 2nd hand reprints of CHARGE! Or how to play wargames and Donald Featherstone's War Games. Anyone here ever played them, and how do they compare to modern ones? Certainly a difference in the 3 or 8 pages of rules compared to the 50+ of General de Brigade and General de Armee I have already got. I note the Lional Tarr Periscope can now be replicated by 21st century phones, so the rules for that can be used as is I hope. Comstar fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Dec 17, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Dec 17, 2019 09:46
|
|
|
What does everyone use as their table base? There's a lot of places selling mousepad based material, but the impression I get is that you can't put books or hills underneath to make nicer hills.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2019 09:34
|
|
|
NTRabbit posted:You can get pretty much (by which I mean exactly) the same thing in 1000x1000mm sheets from Wish, that's where I first saw (and bought) one Got a link? I can only see bed sheets 
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2019 13:42
|
|
|
Anyone had bought a Cigar Box mat like this amazing Waterloo one They look amazing and answer my question of what mat allows you to put hills under them and still work well.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2019 14:28
|
|
|
I'm playing my first of Field of Glory Napoleonic this weekend with a borrowed army - British/Portuguese 1811 vs French. First time in decades I've played an historical game. FOGN is a corps level battle, so 3-4 divisions. Any tips to beat the French, beyond lining up on the reverse slope and engaging in short range musketry.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2020 13:59
|
|
|
Fortunately, I had one of the game's writers (Richard Gordon) to assist me at the League of Ancients in Melbourne! So I played my first Napoleonic wargame in about 27 years today. The rules are Field of Glory Napoleonic (2nd edition). The armies Eureka/AB and Old Glory Miniatures 18mm. I took on (after the first turn, two) divisions of the 1809-11 British and Portuguese army vs an 1809-1811 French army. The battle was somewhere in France/Central Europe, so perhaps it was in The French army commanded by Cameron Wilson has a unit of heavy 12 pounders, a unit of 9 pounders and 2 units of light infantry. There was a division of Cuirassiers x2 and Hussars x2, and 2 divisions of infantry (generally poor or conscript) with some light infantry. The allied army was small but superior. I controlled the 1st and 2nd Divisions which were the core of the army. Richard Gordon took the Portuguese infantry and (Impetuous British) cavalry. Note however, we did not have any corps artillery, just attached to Brigades.  The Battlefield had a small town in the French corner which they occupied and had their LOC. Several steep hills and a gentle hill where next to them, with a road running down the centre. The French army deployed on the hills next to the town. On the Allied side a small wood anchored our right flank with the allied LOC undefended but well out of range on the far left of a small river. The Allied Army. Close to the camera is the (Impetuous British) Hussars. In the middle are my 2 divisions and the left the (Impetuous British) heavy cavalry and Portuguese infantry.  Close up of the allied infantry.  The French army- in the centre is the Corps artillery.  I didn't get a picture of it, but turn 1 the allies advanced quickly up the centre road area while the French had some difficulty getting over the steep hills. They were also quite hesitant and to me unwilling to leave the defensive position until it because obvious where the allies were going. The allied army had been lucky to start with the initiative though. Turn 2 the French had advanced to secure the hill and started to climb the steeper hills to their rear. The Allies are deploying in a line with the (Impetuous British) Hussars on the right flank and (Impetuous British) Dragoons in the centre. I stuffed up the deployment of my 2 divisions are bit. In the front of them a unit of Spanish Guerillas kept the French Artillery busy with minimal losses.  The French army deploys.  My 2 divisions face them, (Impetuous British) Hussars on the right.  On the right flank, the (Impetuous British) Hussars charged and were counted charged by the French Hussars.   The (Impetuous British) Hussars are spent but defeat the French, who flee! Their division commander falls in their rout!!  A medium range gun battle broke out between the French line and Allied line. My British division was somewhat disordered by the French artillery firing canister but held on. The Spanish Guerillas and British light infantry took only small losses from the massed artillery batteries facing them. I was concerned that the French cavalry would force me into square and then the artillery would blast me to pieces.  At this point, I noticed the French cavalry was somewhat disordered. They had moved to support their light cavalry which had rallied, but was now facing away from supporting their artillery. Their crews were a bit disordered and their infantry waving. I urged our corps commander to send in the (Impetuous British) Dragoons to the centre!   They took the fire of three enemy infantry units and charged through the line of French in the centre! The (Impetuous British SHOCK HEAVY) Dragoons crashed through, destroyed the heavy artillery and forced the 9 pounders to rout! Meanwhile, the French cavalry on my right charged our light cavalry.  Both sides were forced to retreat, with the (Impetuous British) Hussars taking the worst of it.  We'd been playing for 3+ hours and the battle then ended with a French Defeat! 40% to 10% Allied. The French army was a bit slow and cramped in one corner initially and were more interested in fighting a gun duel with their (vastly superior) artillery than charging with columns like I expected. The battle deciding charge of the heavy brigade was only a 50%-50% shot at working, as 1-2 more dice rolling in their favour would have stopped the charge and prevented the French artillery from being destroyed and then chain routing other units. Field of Glory Napoleonic is pretty straight forward, but there are a lot of exceptions to keep track of. The rules are well laid out (with a collection of all tables at the back of the book) but there's a lot of different notes to take account of when moving/firing/assault. (ie- you roll 4 dice as infantry unless you have a skirmish unit so +1 but -1 if enemy cav is close but then re roll 6s if your veteran and 5s if your guard and -1 if you're in terrain) However, it works out to be quite a good model of warfare for the period and I give the rules a thumbs up. I hope to start building a British/Portuguese army very similar to what I was able to part of today, though I would like some corps level medium artillery, because I like the look of the guns. I also want some cotton wool to show off who is firing because it looks a lot more dramatic. Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jan 5, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 5, 2020 09:02
|
|
|
Dammit. I'd just written an entire battle report. And Firefox ate it. &*(&*()! .
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2020 14:04
|
|
|
I'd written out an entire battle report and Firefox ate it. Take 2. Sigh. If any of the following is incorrect, it’s my faulty memory and imgur’s fault for uploading the pictures out of order. I played my 2nd game of Field of Glory Napoleonic’s (2nd edition). My opponent was @Dave Inglis, who literally wrote the book on how to win battles in FOGN (it’s on the Facebook group). This battle will therefore be referred to as: Rommel you magnificent bastard. I read your book!. Dave let me use his Prussian army to stand in as a British Peninsula war army vs his Russians. Clearly, Napoleon had out done himself, and got the Czar to attack Britain in a place they wouldn’t expect it- Spain! (I won the dice roll on where the battle was to take place). FOGN gives you the choice of 6 different missions. You can deny your opponent some of them. I choose Probe, and he choose Frontal Assault (to take it easier on my he said). I had a division of Veterans (with an extra 100 points for a Guard unit, which never came up in the battle). Veterans are really good in FOGN . They were my reserves. The division I had on the table was a good unit of drilled troops with the corps Royal Artillery. I had a division of Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons on my right flank. My last division marching to the sound of the guns was another drilled infantry division. The Russians had a division of conscripts with the traditional Russian Heavy Artillery, a drilled infantry unit, an infantry unit with Jaegers and a cavalry division with Cossack's, Light and Heavy cavalry. Cossack's are really annoying . If you charge them they run away. Unless they are really stupid and get pinned against some terrain You can’t catch them.. They can kill infantry if they don’t get into square and are fast enough they can hit the flank or rear of anyone else. In FOGN, after you choose your mission, you choose the terrain to deploy on. Exceptional or skilled Generals can choose the ground they fight on. We ended up with all the terrain on my side. My left flank was anchored by a village. In the centre of my line was a hill I could deploy on in the traditional British fashion (though I could not use the traditional British strategy of being on the reverse slope in a Probe mission). My infantry’s right flank had a forest and marsh, but I should have had the Forest in front. The marsh gave me no cover from firing and made my Hussars useless in it. In FOGN, cavalry can’t do anything in difficult terrain . I would have thought LIGHT cavalry could, but nope, unless you have some attached horse artillery. 40K rough riders apparently use illegal tactics to fight in rough terrain. Perhaps that’s why GW has banned them In the middle of a table a steep hill made moving cavalry difficult and forced the Russians to attack in a smaller area – their infantry could only flank me if I created a hinge. Which I did. Whelp  (There was an impassable river in bottom right corner that played no part in the battle).  (The unit marked as Guard infantry is incorrect, it was just a large infantry unit. The heavy cav on the right also included a brigade of Impetuses British Hussars). The armies at the start of the battle, looking east to west. Russians are coming from the North.  The Russian army. The conscripts are closest to the camera.  As it was a frontal assault, the entire Russian line advanced.  The British army, looking west to east.  The village and hill defence line   My artillery banged away at his, but didn’t do much. The Russian artillery was disordered for a turn but were otherwise unaffected.  The Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons watch the approaching Cossack’s.  The Russian Conscript Division approaches the Spanish village. To me, villages in FOGN are traps . It takes 2 turns to move in to defend (one to occupy, one to defend), you can only have one unit defending it(!!??!), you can’t fire very well out of it and if you take it, you can get thrown out easily by a counter attack before you can prepare to defend it. They are very hard for the enemy to move through it if you have a unit to defend it…and they don’t have artillery. And you can’t put a unit of artillery AND infantry in it – only a battery attached to an infantry brigade.  I do think Dave over committed to having a large conscript unit try to shoot their way into it. He never supported it with his guns, preferring to shoot my guns or my infantry on the hill. The other two Russian divisions were coming into my weak point. Unless my reserves came in here, I was going to be in trouble.  Fortunately, they did! I placed my Large Superior Veteran Guard unit there. And discovered I’d made an rookie mistake in Napoleonic warfare- I’d created a hinge. . The marsh to the right prevented me from having cover on that side, and the Russians had light troops who could flank me that side. My Impetuses British Hussars couldn’t do ANYTHING in the marsh and moved slowly to the other side of it. The rest of the reserves (Veteran troops) came in act as a 2nd line and allowed me to CHARGE my 1st division down the hill into the Russians!   Gunfire rippled across the line and despite wavering, the British infantry charged home! Despite being outflanked by an entire Russian division the Guard barley wavered! Being a large unit of Superior Veteran meant they could take this fire all day. They were sitting on rough terrain under the road so lost some ability to shoot out (which I disagree with. If you have a road going through terrain, the road should override that, but those are the rules).  However, the charging British infantry were repulsed! The units behind them were completely unfazed by this and let them rally behind.  (This picture was from later, but it was uploaded out of order. Curse you imger)  On the right flank, my Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons had been duelling with the Russian Cossack’s and completely failed at catching them. Blast those Cossack's. However, both light units had changed and counter charged, and force the Jager battalion to form square, slowing them down  I had to do something dramatic. The Russians were about to flank by infantry line and even the Guard couldn’t hold back two divisions by themselves. And I saw something.  I had a line of reserves and the Russians did not! And that meant I had to commit now!.  I sent a 2nd unit down the hill, and this time with support from the Guard and Royal Artillery, the charge succeeded! It routed the enemy infantry brigade and went on to destroy the Russian Heavy Artillery! The wavering Russian infantry in front of the Guard disintegrated!    Meanwhile, in the cavalry battle to my east, the horseman had done nearly equal damage to each other. The Cossack’s had been able to outflank the Impetuses British Hussars but even with the support of 2 other brigades, could not finish them off.   The battle had gone for 3 hours and time was up! With the destruction of nearly one division and the rest of the army wavering (beyond some Russian cavalry who had played no part in the battle) the Russian’s retreated and the British held the field of battle. Several units had taken casualties, with only one unit routed. BRITISH VICTORY . FOGN is still overly complicated for me. Dave knows the rules off by heart so can tell me with ease where units can move and where they can’t, and knowing how many dice too roll, to target what (splitting fire is overly complicated I think), to need what to hit and then roll what to keep going, and telling me where I need to commit my ADC’s. He gave me several advantages (an extra 100 points for a Guard unit, using a frontal assault with little infantry tactical niceties) but the battle still performed like a Napoleonic battle should. He over committed attacking the village and didn’t’ have any reserves able to attack my defensive line. The side with the last reserves often wins in Napoleonic battles.... Or in other words "They came on in the same old way, and we defeated them in the same old way." . YEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. After all, I’d read his book. When my dramatic infantry charge down the hill occurred, I noticed something later. Dave didn't have any cavalry supporting his assault. If he'd had, I suspect my defensive plan would have failed to pieces immediately, even if I had kept one of the Hussar brigades with my infantry. A classic mistake in Napoleonic warfare I'd say. And something he mentions in his own strategy guide! Comstar fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jan 11, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2020 15:23
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:For those of us unfamiliar, what's a "hinge" in Napoleonic warfare? If you attack the enemy in line, you end up all in one long straight line. Everyone blasts away at each other and you're fighting at 1-1 ratio. SO you hit them in one flank. But you're marching slowly, so they reform their flank to face yours. The armies now have a right angle. THEN you send in the reserves you have carefully kept to the right movement, and hit them right there, in the hinge of their line. You're hitting them from 3 sides right at the corner, and they won't be able to take it, facing 3-1 odds. The hinge breaks, and you send in your cavalry into the hole to roll up the enemy army. In my battle, my Guard brigade was about to have two divisions firing at it- from the front and flank. If I hadn't charged down the hill, even they would have broken and the as yet uncommitted Russian cavalry could then exploit the hole....  Though it might not still have worked. I also had an uncommitted brigade behind the Guard unit which could fill the hole..but then they would have faced the same problem of being attacked on 3 sides. Once your hinge develops, it's very hard to break out of it. You either fall back your entire line (and in FOGN and Napoleonic warfare, falling back when close to the enemy makes you disordered and you need a morale check to succeed) or try and outflank the enemy outflankers. Because my British Troops had been blasting away at the Russians at the bottom of the hill for some time and weakening them, I was able to commit to a charge across the open ground - which is totally British tactics to do. You don't need to create a hinge to win a battle, but it forces the enemy to do something they may not want to do normally. I couldn't outflank his end of the line as I only had cavalry to the right of my flank (which the Russians were keeping busy) and there was a forest blocking my reserve infantry from getting there in time (which I had placed there myself as a rookie mistake. Whelp). A lot of battles work out this way (ie- you have more troops in one smaller area than the enemy does aka get there fastest with the mostest), but in 17-18th century warfare it's really obvious when it happens because the armies all fight in line, so you see it easier. One of the reasons Napoleonic warfare can be fun is you can see the elementary tactics in action. I think a lot of ACW battles that Lee won were because of this. Both at Waterloo and Gettysburg they didn't try this, and just went into frontal assault mode, and we all know how that worked out. At Gettysburg the Union got stuck in a hook/hinge, but they were in a very good defensive position and Lee's attack on day 2 was uncoordinated. Comstar fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 12, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 12, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
My mid-life crises continues and today I bought a Division of 18mm British Peninsula Infantry for Field of Glory Napoleonic from the only people in Melbourne who sell ANY historical miniatures I can find - Eureka Miniatures. Helpfully, everyone tells me their AB figures are the best. Lots of flash though. Going to the store to select what I wanted was worth it. Saved some money paying cash too. The maker was at the front counter and wearing a gas mask for that real post-apocalyptic feel you get in Australia these days. I assume that was because he was out from the factory because the smoke from the bush fires actually cleared today (it will be back on Sunday when I fight my next battle).  (May not be legal, will find out when I buy the army list on Sunday from the co-author). I am assuming Sharpe has done his Sharpe thing and taken over the brigade because the normal commander is dead/having a break down/has his glasses buttered. I wanted to get some rocket artillery but Eureka doesn't have them AFAIK. I wanted to have some Hussars added as a detachment to the 95th Rifle regiment (to represent the scouting cavalry and who the riflemen often rode on) but couldn't afford the 1 point I needed. Picton in his Waterloo top hat and umbrella is amusing, and will work well as my merely "component" commander. I do think that the era should also have INcompotent commanders, but you can only sorta do that in FOGN by having an allied commander who doesn't speak your language as well (aka, +1 ADC from the corps commander to do a complicated manoeuvre). Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jan 17, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2020 13:15
|
|
|
I played my 3rd game of Field of Glory Napoleonic (2nd edition) game today French 1813 Infantry corps for the 2nd time vs a British Peninsula army with my own army list for the first time. I was quite distracted for 2/3s of the game. I might write a battle report later with a lot more details and photos later. The French attacked in a Oblique angle that would make old 'Fred proud and destroyed my Guards and KGL division without too much loss (less than 10% compared to 30%). I learnt a hell of lot: Don't put redoubts in the flank, put them in the centre. Don't put rough terrain where I might want to walk. Redoubts are pretty useless except as impassible terrain. Put terrain in the opponents half off table. If putting a unit in a redoubt, you can't put the rest of the division anywhere else on the table because the unit is trapped there (WTF rules?? You can order the entire army about but put them in a redoubt, and they can't even get out with disorder?!?! I don't care if they got ordered to defend it to the death, the rest of the army obeys its commands, so they should too!), Veteran Superior Guard units CAN hold off 2 divisions...for 1 turn, maybe 2., But not 3. Not 3 barrels... My army idea is bad and I should feel bad about it and need to re-work it, but fortunately it's a borrowed army, so I don't need to re-base or re-paint). Question - if you base and paint your army, how do you change it afterwards?!?! I don't know how to stop a combined arms attack (there doesn't seem to be a way to do it). My deployment matched no plan beyond set up the army in a line which is stupid. You can't move backward as fast as the enemy can advance forward. Defending a normal hill is bad and if done should be a steep hill. Don't take the positional defence unless I have a dedicated artillery unit OR more than 1 hill because 1 hill to hide behind doesn't give any advantage to using reverse slope unless your division behind it is "special". I need more skilled division commanders. I CAN use more than 1 ADC at a time its not complicated, you don't have to "save" your ADC to allow a charge in the opponents turn because you will have them back at the end of your last turn. Light infantry is awesome and why wouldn't you form your entire army out of it. Deploy divisions in chequerboard fashion to fill gaps and allow units to move up by reforming from extended line to tactical. Cavalry can be formed up in column if you don't know where it's going to move. Leave a 2 stand gap between terrain unless it's in the opponents have, in which case it will cause more problems than if it was just next to each other. ***THE RULE BOOK REALLY NEED AN INDEX***. ALL rule books need an index! The tables for pre-battle should be in the appendix along with the other tables. The strong point rule doesn't help unless I have a village close to the middle of the table. A village used as a strong point is not a defensive move its an offensive one. M sure I put my name on the OUTSIDE of the rule books, so they don't wander off (which to be fair, happened before I had a chance to write my name on it). If the enemy army is leaving a division behind, it is not a reserve as such, it's an oblique attack. Units can cross a table in 2 turns (which is ANOTHER reason not take positional defence). It's better to move units in a brigade and not in single units. When deploying in a village DO NOT DEFEND IT just occupy it you will have more than enough time to move to defend it if needed. Put my reserve division IN reserve and off the table for the 1st 1-2 turns, if its centre deployed it will have time to catch up. Next time try an envelopment. If I have 3 units of cavalry and one is in reserve behind the infantry line, the corps commander can order it thought he needs to join in. SOMEONE (not me!) should write an FAQ on Napoleonic warfare or tell me where one is because I know a lot of other people have had these questions or conclusions already from 1797 onward!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2020 13:40
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:Need some more detail on the problem here. It doesn't matter, I thought about it and all miniature games have that issue. The solution is to never paint anything.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2020 21:02
|
|
|
Played at the League of Ancients vs Cameron's French and I'm using Richard's army one again. My own list. Battle report here that's got better formatting. Following their victory vs a surprise Russian assault, the Anglo-Portuguse army settled down for the night. However, Napoleon was dissatisfied with his erst awhile allies and decoded to send in his own troops once again. THIS time the French strategy would work...  The Allied army had moved further inland and deployed around the small village of Canoroa. With no French units detected by the Hussar's (who were drunk), the army deployed in a long line, with the British Guards unit on a hill to the left, the main British units on the road and the Portuguese sleeping in the village and fields to the right. The Militia unit dug themselves in and refused to leave, fearing a surprise Cossack Invasion At Night.  On the next morning, the Guard Division observed French units coming into view in the distance to the North. The army stood too, but insisted it must Brew Up Tea before the battle could start.  The main British division on the road got their tea ready. No French units in site.  The Portuguese units slept in.  The British Cavalry stayed in reserve and tried to get overt their drunkenness.  The French army deployed in the field, with the majority on the British left flank. An Conscript division full; of Élan raced forward, followed by the heavy French Artillery brigade.  The Guards division tried to move back to get close to the rest of the Allied army, but it was too late. The divisional commander decided to defend the hill. His orders HAD been to act as the armies reserve, but everyone forgot that when it was discovered that the army's pay book HAD BEEN STOLEN BY A FRENCH SPY! Later it was found to have been sold by accident by the army paymaster and everyone was quite embarrassed about it. This issue served to distract commanders at all levels until the last hour of the battle.  The French army moved far faster than any of the Allied side could believe! Only 20 minutes to cross the entire battlefield! This was faster than an Imperial Guard army from 40000 years in the future! The Allied corps commander was dumb founded at the speed of the French advance.  Over half the Allied army was out of position. The Impetuous British Cavalry was determined to attack the left flank of the French army, but found it had to go around the village of Canoroa and fields first. Instead, they should have remained as the armies reserve and bolstered the centre and right flank. But the Impetuous British Cavalry was never going to listen to any battle plan!  The French army baring down on the British Centre Division. French Heavy and Medium Artillery lead with Currissers behind.  The British Guards Regiment formed line and prepared to engage two French Divisions in musketry.  The British Guards Regiment took a beating, but held their heads high and fell back two paces. HUZZA!  In an effort to hold the line, the KGL regiment tried to flank the incoming Conscript Division. But they were out of position. If they were occupying the small village to their left, it would have complicated things for the French Divisional commander. Instead, they could only try to hold on till the Allied right flank had marched to attack.  The 1st (Vanguard) division formed tactical line with the Rifle unit flanking them. The 3rd Brigade in support.  Meanwhile, the British right flank SLOWLY moved to the attack. The Portuguese were still sleepy and found moving out of Canoroa and the muddy fields slowed them down to a crawl. The Militia brigade point-blank refused to leave their revetment and threatened to shoot the Division Commander! The Allied General was disgusted by the whole affair and could not believe it. This was against all the rules of warfare!  The British right flank moved to attempt to attack the oncoming French horde.  It failed! The 1st Brigade, 2nd Division was driven back and ran through clear to the other side of the supporting Heavy Dragoons.  A large hole had developed in the British line.  The hole widened when another Brigade was forced back by the firepower of the French Heavy Artillery. They could not withstand firepower of this magnitude.  Desperate to try to save the day, the Guards Regiment advanced and attempted to win a close range fire duel as the 2nd Brigade rallied. The Heavy Dragoons moved to a position to prepare for the French Currissers to charge.  On the Allied right flank, the Portuguese Division was almost in a position but still agonisingly slow. The British Hussars and Light Dragoons forced the French regiment into square, but were unable to do much else and the Portuguese infantry to far away to take advantage and were lacking in artillery support.  On the left flank, the KGL and Guards regiment started to waver. Units fell back and the French Conscripts advanced.  The decisive moment arrived. Two French Conscript units supported by heavy artillery charged the Foot Guards. The defensive fire checked and forced them to flee...but not rout. Completely unworried by their failed charge, they will still able to fire at short range, and routed the entire Guards and KGL division!!!!!  The Allied General was aghast and horrified. How could this happen?!??! French conscripts, being checked and forced back by disciplined veteran guard troops, stopped their retreat and were able to fire back and rout the disordered and wavering British and KGL infantry! THIS WAS IMPOSSIBLE!  No matter what the Allied Corps commander thought of the matter, his Guards and KGL had fled the field. The Portuguese division was still out of position. The Light Dragoons attempted a doomed charge to try and save the day but were routed by the French Currissers. With too many units now routed or wavering, the entire Allied army collapsed and retreated. ALLIED DEFEAT. The French attack was a perfect example of an attack on the Oblique line. A text book example perfectly executed. The Allies walked into it with their eyes closed. So many mistakes were made. So many mistakes. The reserve division is not IN reserve. It's deployed on the left flank. It's not deployed in the village it can use to anchor the flank. The division reserve is right behind the main unit, it should be in between both units and 4 inches (ca. 10 cm) further back. It can move up when needed. The unit on the hill should be behind the hill in a reverse slope and hidden until the enemy army is deployed. In FOGN you don't show your army list until it is all on table. The middle division needs its reserve brigade between them in chequer board fashion. The unit in the strong point village should be occupying it, not defending it. The strongpoint should, be in the opponents half or my army must be behind it. The redoubt needs to be 2 unit blocks apart and if nothing else forward of the strongpoint. The rough terrain should be further in the opponents half. The entire army should, be behind the strong point and redoubt. Having 2 redoubts AND a strongpoint will complicate matters for the enemy unless I then don't deploy my army behind it! A single cavalry unit is not a good reserve. I should have put the left and centre flanks behind the right flank and only fought on that side of the table. A smaller army needs a small area to fight in. Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jan 20, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2020 13:25
|
|
|
Cassa posted:Comstar your batreps are great! Thank you Goonsir. I can't think of a way to find to beat a combined arms attack. The French had their artillery blasting away next to an infantry brigade next to the cavalry brigade. I can't charge my infantry in because the cavalry will counter charge. I can't stand and shoot vs heavy artillery.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2020 14:28
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:Yeah, that's super big scale for a dog-fighting wargame IMHO. I mean, even a single turning radius should require a pretty big room, right? Just fight in the vertical! 109's and P51's will do it all the time.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2020 13:35
|
|
|
Any tips for winning The battle of Talavera? I'm getting a long held dream to play a large multiplayer historical wargame this weekend (Field of Glory Napoleonic 2nd ed), probably as the French . Time to learn how I can beat my own army.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2020 08:28
|
|
|
I just refought the Battle of Talavera in a 3-a-side Army level battle using Field of Glory Napoleonic 2nd ed. I played as a Portuguese Division in the centre of the Allied line, with the British to my left on a hill, and the Spanish army to my right in the town of Talavera itself. I also controlled the British Cavalry Division and the VERY LATE arriving Light Division. Battle report coming, but here''s pretty much how it went down: Yes, the French repeated the historical battle strategy. Will it work this time??! Did the French come up in the same old way and get defeated in the same old way? Did MY PORTUGUESE out shoot the French battalions? Did the KGL Hussar's make a certain death charge in the centre of the French line without Sir Arthur Wellesley orders? Did the Light Division arrive too late to effect the battle?? Will Richard Shape capture a French Eagle??? Find out later when I write up the batrap! Comstar fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 8, 2020 07:43
|
|
|
As posted to my blog: The Battle of Talavera. I'm sorry about the bad spelling, Firefox has decided to kill my spell checker Some REALLY good photos showing off the figures can be found on Facebook.  The Start of the battle. Not to scale.Done with Battle Chronicler, which I cannot work out how to place more than 1 unit. My 4th Field of Glory Napoleonic (2nd edition) battle was a 3vs3 refight of the Battle of Talavera of the 28 July 1809. An Anglo/Portuguese army under Sir Arthur Wellesley combined with a Spanish army under General Cuesta and confronted 2 (3 in this game) Corps under Marshal Claude Victor and Major-General Horace Sebastiani, with the French king of Spain, Joseph Bonaparte in nominal command. wikipedia.org entry for the Battle of Talavera Order of battle from britishbattles.com Being Spain and with Lieutenant General Sir Arthur Wellesley in command and choosing the ground to fight., the entire battlefield was counted as difficult terrain for Artillery and Cavalry to move. There were 3 small rough hills were to the west and a large gentle hill in the centre that Wellesley placed his 3 English army divisions on the reserve slope (as was his want). Special rules for the scenario are that cavalry and artillery moves as if the table is all difficult terrain. To the large hills right in the plain was MY SMALL (unhistorical) PORTUGUESE DIVISION consisting of a large infantry brigade with skirmishers and a small brigade with attached artillery, with a skilled commander. In the town of Talavera itself was a large Spanish army of several divisions, with a light brigade in the farm next to it. Behind the town was a large division of suspect Spanish Cavalry. Behind MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION was the 1st KGL Hussars, Impetuses British Light Dragoons, British Heavy Dragoons (commanded by Lieutenant General William Payne) and a further division of suspect Spanish cavalry. Wellesley placed himself on top of the hill. Captain Richard Sharpe was to his right near MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION. A small Spanish unit was placed in THE SPANISH REDOUBT in the centre. It wasn't expected to do much, but delay and maybe disrupt the TWO FRENCH Divisions attacking it. Marching to the sound of the guns was the BRITISH LIGHT INFANTRY DIVISION - the famed 95th Rifles. Would they make it in time? The FRENCH ARMY consisted of three corps, each of several infantry divisions and heavy cavalry. They also had some artillery brigades mixed in with the infantry. The French heavy cavalry was mostly on the French left wing with a long line of infantry shouting VIVA LA EMPEROR going across from the farm to the English hill (the French generals actually said VIVA LA something else but I didn't get the joke). A stream crossed across the battlefield, though petered out nearer the town. it counted as difficult terrain, though near my division it only acted as a defence line bonus. Most (all?) of the figures are provided by RICHARD GORDON, co-writer of the 2nd edition rules. He also created the scenario and acted as referee. The buildings were made by Eureka Miniatures, though sadly I don't think they make them anymore.  The Anglo-Portuguese army. Talavera is off in the distance to the east. The British army deployed on the reverse slope of the hill, so were out of sight before the French deployed. MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION was to the right of it, and then the Spanish army continued into to the town. A division of light infantry defended the Orchard.  The British and Spanish Cavalry divisions. MY CALVERY DIVISION setup in reserve behind my Portuguese units and in the reverse slope of the hill.  MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION. A small brigade with attached artillery battery, a large brigade with skirmishers (Average, Drilled) and their Skilled general. MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION setup with the larger brigade in front and the smaller one in reserve behind it.  British Heavy Dragoon brigade - Impetuses Heavy Shock Superior The Impetuses Heavy Shock Superior Dragoons acted as the final reserve of the army. (They were never committed....)  Portuguese Light Dragoons. Poor Drilled. The Portuguese Light Dragoons were attached to the British Calvary division and were ordered by Wellesley not to charge in themselves. (They did not appreciate that order).  Spanish Cavalry. Poor Drilled. I spent the entire battle waiting for the mass of Spanish Cavalry to attack. (They never did).  British Cavalry General. Component. The British Cavalry commander. He had to spend the battle moving between the Light Dragoons and the KGL 1st Hussar's to keep them in command range. (He ended up moving Wellesley himself out of the way to do it).  MY SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION facing north towards the French Army. The French army deployed nearly identically to the actual real world battle. Would history repeat itself?  The town of Talavera. Spanish divisions defend it and the attached orchard. Most are poor, drilled. The brigade to the left is a Guards unit. I was surprised that nearly the entire Spanish army deployed in town with few reserves. The Spanish general in command commented that he did not have high hopes for their morale for the coming battle or that he would advance out of the town to the attack.  The Anglo-Portuguese army. Captain Richard Sharpe is with the Rifle skirmishers on the right side of the hill. Wellesley is to his left on the hill.  I have not yet had a chance to read Sharpe's Eagle but look forward to doing so.  The allied armies, facing Talavera. Wellesley is in the centre (Exceptional, Charismatic Corps Commander) I am somewhat annoyed that you cannot get a British exceptioonal corps commander in the army list UNLESS he is also charismatic! I know Wellington was good but do I really have no one else who is really that good in his entire army??  The French right advance to towards the river. 3infantry divisions with artillery brigades. Seeing the massed French infantry divisons and attached artillery made me very worried. My part of the army was quite small compared to the mass of trained veteran infantry bearing down on me. I think most were Bavharian? The French generals made a joke about it. We were deliberty told that we couldn't find out whaat the enemy units were or their skills. However, Richard's army was so well painted and chosen it was pretty obvious what was what. And it didn't rerally matter to me how good they were, they still died the same way as poor bloody conscripts.  Behind the right wing corps is a heavy dragoon division. The French heavy dragoons did the same thing my heavy dragoons did- act as the army reserve. Neither unit actually did anything in the entire battle...  On the French centre, two infantry divisions deploy towards THE SPANISH REDOUBT (Poor, drilled). It was probably a mistake, but I convinced Wellesley and Spanish general to deploy a throw away unit in the redoubt, We knew (but the French did NOT) that the LIGHT DIVISON was marching towards us, so in my view any delay was a good one. Didn't end very well for the conscripts through...  The French left wing facing Talavera. A large amount of calvary. The French army deployed nealy excatly like their historical battle line. Thier Dragoons were clearly just there to stop the Spanish coming out into the open. IMHO, the Spanish should have come out, apart from the Dragoons the right flank was wide open...  The French right wing corps advances and starts to cross the river. Wellesley watches calmly. We could have defended on the river, but Wellesley wanted to defend from the top of the hill. Gee, you could even think he'd seen this all before...  Two French Divisions attack THE SPANISH REDOUBT. 3 Brigades to 1 poor one isn't going to end well. And we had notthing to support it. I should probably have had one of the light cav units nearby to at least force them to deploy more.  The Spanish barely slow the attackers down, wavering one unit.  The return fire disorders them! I was not impressed by the Spanish performance. I can see why Wellesley wasn't either.  Wellesley looks down on the approaching French army.  British Infantry on the ridge. I wish one day my figures would as look as good as these do!  The French right corps crosses the river without incident. I was telling Wellesley he should let my cavelry go forward to delay the French as they slowed down to the cross the river, He denied it.  The Spanish General makes a desperate race to raise the spirits of the trapped garrison but is too late! The general might well have rallied them if he was closer, though he also may have died in the rout that was going to follow it.  The French storm the redoubt and there are no survivors! The French brigade is only disordered. Did I mention I dislike the redoubt rules? Apperntly it's a litteral hangover from the 1st edition where they were too powerful.  Aginast orders, the Spanish left wing advances to the river. MY SMALL PORTUGUESE Division matches their line...without orders either. The umpire was quite clear (after the battle started!) that the Spanish and Anglo-Portuguese could NOT commincate their plans or advice to each other. I probably directed too many comments to the Spanish general, but as far as I can tell, he ignored all my ideas anyway (which was a good idea). I just let them move first and tried to follow their lead.  The French corps of three divisons advances up the hill towards the silent British line. Seeing 3 large French Divisons advance made me very worried. If they kept their line and stopped us out flanking them, they would surly defeat the British thin red lines. I asked why they wern't advancing in colum formation and was told it's "tactical" and counted as such. (I disagreed and throught they should be in a more deep formation, but the rules alow it).  The French left attacks the Spanish light division in the orchard. I was surprised to hear the Spanish HAD any light infantry, I thought they were all unreformed. I thought it was the best place for them, as they were acting as THE HINGE (see my post about that).  The French right corps deploys to advance up the hill. A full division in reserve.Though I think they made a mistep here NOT being in a deeper formation. They should know they may not win in a firefight with British troops, and they have the reserves to throw in if they need them...but only if they can fit through. And being in a wide tactical formation makes that harder.  Wellesley moves a division to outflank the French right wing. And here we see the historical outcome! In the real battle the Impetuses British Dragoons tried to outflank the French infantry and charged straight into a ravine and then into French cavalry and got cut to pieces. In this battle, the French had NO calvery on their far right. I couldn't move my light dragoons that far fast enough and keep them in coheincerty with the rest of the divison, so they stayed in the centre of the british support line. You can see some French cavlary moving right in the background, but they never reached the far end before being needed...elsewhere.  I move my Impetuous BRITISH LIGHT DRAGOONS to support the main British line. This is as far as as my Impetuous BRITISH LIGHT DRAGOONS got in the battle.  My PORTUGUESE DIVISION moves up with the KGL Hussars and Portuguese cavalry in support. I felt the need I HAD to go and try and outflank the French attacking the British hill. I wanted to go in with all the calvery but Wellesley said I was going too far forward and ordered me back a bit.  My PORTUGUESE DIVISION prepares to engage the enemy. Time to roll some dice.  With no infantry on the French left wing, the Spanish divisions advance out of their defences towards the French Calvary,. The Spanish General listened to my advice (or probably more accuarly decided now was the time himself) and started to move out of the town. It took a long time to do it...I don't know if they ever got close enough to the French to actually shoot them.  The French right corps prepares to attack the British line. My PORTUGUESE DIVISION and the KGL are in position to flank them. Wellesley kept telling me to hold back, "it's often more important to know when not to commit as it is to know when it is". He was correct, in that the French were unharmed at this point and if advanced too far forward I'd be outflanked myself, and the French had better troops and heavier guns than I did.  Each dice is the amount of gunfire coming from the allied line.\ The British shooting was completly rotten, and despite the massed gunfire, failed to do mich of anything for 2-3 turns! Wellesley blamed the smoke.  Battle of Talavera on 28th July 1809 in the Peninsular War: picture by JJ Jenkins - Britishbattles.com  French gunfire in the centre. There was a lot of French fire coming my way, but a lot of it was ineffective, whish I was surprised to see.  PREPARE TO FIRE!  Musketry and artillery open fire! My small brigade begins to waver! The French units to my front are also impacted. This is probably why Wellesley was telling me not to advance too far. I was very lucky my large brigade didn't take enough damage to hurt it!  The British army starts to flank the French right wing which is forced to fall back. This was the starting point of big problems for the French army. They had nothing to stop it, except the heavy dragoons coming up...too slow.  The French centre takes heavy casualties. The Spanish left wing is also wavering. The Spanish Guard to the right of the picture is only disordered. Our oriuginal plan had been to lure the French into a hinge in the centre, but the Spanish advance had foiled that. However, the plan had worked here through some lucky shooting on our part.  THE DECISIVE MOMENT. Against orders from Wellesley, the KGL HUSSARS CHARGE!!!!! Wellesley really didn'ty want me to charge in, but I kept thinking THIS WAS THE DECISIVE MOMENT. The French were disordered and I might not get another chance. NOW WAS THE TIME! GO FOR IT KGL! I also had flank and rear support from the Portuguesue cavalry.  My SMALL PORTUGUESE DIVISION does heavy damage to the French centre. At this point off camera, the cloud of dust that been on the horizan fianlly arrived! Our reserves had got here in time! "Is that it?!" I exclaimed. "Yes. That's the British Light Divison". "It's ONE SMALL BRIGADE?!!" "Well yes, but they are the best unit in the army, light veturen surprior troops". "I was expecting...something bigger". I think the French generals were just as surpised as I was to see this huge dust cloud arrive and out walk 4 stands of green infantry.  The Portuguese Calvary move up to support the KGL in their death ride.  23rd Light Dragoons attacking the French infantry squares at the Battle of Talavera on 28th July 1809 in the Peninsular War: picture by Richard Caton Woodville (the regiment is, in error, it was actually the KGL light dragoons!) - britishbattles.com It's not really a death ride if all the French shots MISS and you have flank and rear support.  MAXIMUM DAMAGE. EVERY ATTACK DICE BY THE KGL HITS! THERE ARE NO SURVIVORS! I was amazed that worked, but work it did.  THE KGL ROUT PURSUE AND ROUTE AN ENTIRE FRENCH DIVISION TWO BRIGADES FLEE! They went on to cause a cascade faliure and destroyed a SECOND briagde behind the first. Due to the terrian for some reason, infantry could not form square when charged. Wellesley was a goddamm genius on picking his ground to fight on. For some reason I'm not sute of, the French heavier cavalry never tried to charge our infantry.  French heavy dragoons counter charge the spent KGL. The supporting Portuguese cavalry change in to intercept them! At this point we worked out that the entire French army had taken nearly > 30% routed and wavering units AND we'd taken less thasn 10%. If we took no more damage the battle would be over. I hadn't actually NEEDED the unit to flank cover my KGL cavalry, so intercepting the heavy dragoons with my poor light dragoons was probably not a good idea. However, he would have changed into the flank of my spent KGL Hussar's instead, so I considered a better trade.  A French infantry division is so shaken by these events THEY MISS EVERY SHOT. The Portuguese fire back and HIT WITH EVERY SHOT! The French centre is wavering! 3 French infantry briagdes took every shot they could AND MISSED. I shot back at all 3, and got hits with 2 dice ON EVERY ONE. 50/50 chance to hit!  On the allied left wing, the British army changes home and routs multiple units! They came up at us in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way! While this was going on, the British army had won ONE fire fight early on, 3 dice to a French 4. That allowed them to rout a single French brigade...which then allowed two British units to shoot every single one of the French ones. The damage became insermountable and cascade failures started to happen along the entire French right wing!  The French centre is battered and about to collapse.  Lieutenant Sharp goes for a French Eagle (the 95th rifle skirmishes to the right of the picture).  29th Regiment attacking the French at the Battle of Talavera on 27th/28th July 1809 in the Peninsular War - britishbattles.com I'd asked where Captain Richard Shape was, and he was right where he needed to be.  The British army charges home! They only need 4 hits and did 12! Sean Bean does NOT die this day! I blame him for that dice roll.  The French right wing collapses and entire divisions flee the field! Sharpe captures an Eagle!  Attack of the British 29th Regiment at the Battle of Talavera on 27th/28th July 1809 in the Peninsular War - britishbattles.com I'd just moved the KGL behind the French right wing and was looking forward to getting some rear charges but they collapsed before I could do it.  The French right wing disintegrating and the centre wavering. The French left wing has driven back the Spanish from the orchard and routed two units, but it is not enough. The entire French army breaks and flees the battlefield! Viscount Wellington of Talavera is proclaimed! After being told I couldn't talk to the Spanish, I didn't pay much attention to the battle to my right, which isn't very fair to the Spanish general. His poorly trained and low morale units held off the Veturan French long enough for the British Infantry and German cavalry to do what they needed to, and I think only two out of 16 Spanish units were broken. I don't think the French cavalry on the right did anything meaningful in the battle, which was a big win for us. They got driven back across the near the entire battlefield without doing anything for their high cost. Just off camera THE FAMED LIGHT DIVISION is moving up to help the Spanish, but they never did in time.Completly historical outcome for that too.  The remnants of the fleeing French units rout off the field of battle en masse, leaving their guns to be captured. French cavalry stays back as a rear guard. I should have got a shot of the entire battlefield but I missed my chance as I was in a somewhat shock that we'd won. ALLIED VICTORY  Military General Service Medal awarded to Captain Hawker with clasp for the Battle of Talavera on 28th July 1809 in the Peninsular War - britishbattles.com Comstar fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Feb 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 8, 2020 14:53
|
|
|
zokie posted:Great battle report! I think it was at Talavera that a Spanish regiment got spooked by their own volley and routed... To be fair to the rules, I don't think it's easy to make a rule to say "Your entire army fires a volley out of range. It then panics and routs off the table". .
|
|
#
¿
Feb 8, 2020 15:46
|
|
|
My 1811 Anglo-Portuguese army will be fighting a French Spring 1813 army tomorrow. He's going to outnumber my infantry by about 2-1 with a lot of conscripts, and probably have some corps level heavy artillery batteries. I will probably have slightly more and much better cavalry, with a better corps commander (Wellington, on a bad day). So it's a smaller, cheap, superior troops vs a mass of conscripts, heavy artillery and less cavalry. Any tips?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
I played my 5th and 6th Field of Glory Napoleonic (2nd ed) game today. The first one didn't go past 3 turns... The full report is on my blog. I'm going to add some more text and explations of what happened, but this is a overview for it now. Southern France - Spring 1813. (The terrain sheet is by Cigar Box Battle Store. I've ordered the Field of Battle - Grassland 2. The terrain is from League of ancients). Following the disastrous invasion of Russia, Napoleon has been forced to rebuild his army with newly drafted conscripts and cavalry. His army lacks dedicated corps level artillery units. Wellington's Anglo-Portuguese army crosses the Spanish frontier and engages the French army at the base of the Pyreness and the river and town of Nivelles (not a real town or battle).  British and Portuguese Dragoons cross the river Nivelles to scout the French army. A rough hill is to it's south and gentle hills to the north of the town of Nivelles itself. In the distance to the East is rough area and a rough hill to the far north. A small wood is next to the road in the direction of far off Toulon. Wellington's plan was for the allied cavalry to act as the army reserve. However, the Allied cavalry commander, seeing no French in his way, IMPETUOUSLY decided to cross the Nivelles river and advance into France.  The Anglo-Portuguese army deploys to the right of the the town of Nivelles  Two French infantry divisions of conscripts deploy to stop the invasion of France.  The allied dragoon division crosses the river Nivelles.  Wellington looks towards the enemy. His army is deployed on the reverse slope, as is his want.  The VERY LARGE French Cavalry division charges the outnumbered Dragoons  The British Light Dragoons flee! I should have rolled for the Heavy Dragoons first! A class rookie mistake!  With both the Light and Portuguese Dragoons fleeing the battlefield, the heavy Dragoons are doomed.  The Division commander joins them in a desperate attempt to hold them!  Disaster. The heavies flee to join the rest of the allied cavalry.  As does the British Cavalry commander. He escapes with his life only by outrunning the French light cavalry. There WILL be a court of inquiry on this disaster. He will be cashiered for this! (aka my Army list is going to be changed for the next battle)  With the entire left flank wide open following the complete collapse of the cavalry division, and his line of retreat threatened, Wellington orders a retreat to Spain. ALLIED DEFEAT! Coming up if I can be motivated to write it - my 6th battle ~ The French chase Wellington back to Spain. Will be defeat them there? . We'll find out if anyone asks for it (or I write it up anyway).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 16, 2020 14:41
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:As for the battle, having your cavalry too far forward and exposed is bound to cause pain! Napoleon: Those men on grey horses are terrifying. Marshal Soult: They are the noblest cavalry in Europe; and the worst led. Me: Challenge accepted! I as their commander, made a number of mistakes that experience would have prevented. Spring 1813 French are infamous in the lack of trained and total cavalry. However, he had large units to my (superior) small. Mistake #1. Mistake #2 - I deployed my cavalry division FIRST, allowing the French to deploy their cavalry to match mine. I was doing an envelope mission, meaning my LIGHT DIVISION (the best in the British army) was going to flank the enemy on the left, so the plan was to lure the enemy onto my left flank, and then hit them in the rear with the Light division. I needed to roll a 5+ on 2, 3 or 4d6dice to get them to come in on turn 2,3 or 4. ....I did not roll a 5+. If I had, the Light division would have appeared BEHIND the French cavalry (who were completely unsupported by his conscript infantry) and shot them to pieces. So the battle was lost because the unit that was supposed to surprise the enemy was instead lost in the mountains. Whelp. How is THAT for an historical outcome! Mistake #3 I could have used an extra dice each turn by using Wellington's superior abilities as an army commander. In FOGN you roll 1d6 each turn for each flanking unit, needing a 5+, and increasing 1d6 each turn. You get +1d6 for a skilled General (which the Light Division has) and can get a further +1d6 if you have a skilled Corps commander and use 2 ADC's to hurry them up. So I could have been rolling, 3d6 on turn 1 for them to turn up the next turn, 4d6 on turn 2 and 5d6 on turn 3. Once it arrives you tell your opponent they are coming in, and arrive a turn later, and if they come in close to the enemy, the enemy unit takes a cohesion loss and falls back. Whelp. Mistake #4 was when I did charge my cavalry, I decided to fight the first combat with my light dragoons and not the heavies. As the French had heavy cavalry, they only needed 4 on d6 to hit, and not 5 on d6. So they won that combat, and forced a cohesion test on my supporting Portuguese cavalry, and I failed that roll, so they broke too, so my heavies were at a disadvantage in their combat. Mistake #5. I had Heavy Shock cavalry vs his Heavy cavalry. So I should have been at 4+ to hit, but didn't read that rule. My opponent just said I needed 5+ as it was heavy vs heavy, so I failed to hit as often. I should have checked that rule! Whelp. I need to print out and laminate the rule cheat sheets and have them with me next time to avoid that. Mistake #6. I should have attached my division commander to my heavy dragoons. I had superior troops so reroll 1's. superior troops with a commander reroll 1's AND 2's. So I would have rolled 7d6, needing 4's to hit, and re-rolling 1's and 2. I probably would have won that combat, and if I did that and he failed his cohesion roll, may have routed his entire division! British Cavalry. The best cavalry in the world. And the worst lead (by me). Wellington wrote: "I considered our ( British ) cavalry so inferior to the French from the want of order, that although I considered one squadron a match for two French, I didn't like to see four British opposed to four French, and as the numbers increased and order, of course, became more necessary I was the more unwilling to risk our men without having a superiority in numbers....[ ... "It is occasioned entirely by the trick our officers of cavalry have acquired of galloping at everything and their galloping back as fast as they gallop on the enemy... They never consider the situation, never think of manoeuvring before an enemy, and never keep back or provide for a reserve." Conclusion: Always take Wellington's advice.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2020 22:20
|
|
|
Class Warcraft posted:So in this ruleset do the cavalry sometimes move and charge without orders? In Field of Glory Napoleonic 2nd edition, no one moves without orders (being a corps level game where units are brigades), but IMPETUOUS cavalry (aka, the non-veteran British cavalry) will ALWAYS pursue a routed enemy. Normal (or KGL cavalry or veteran British ) may make a complex move test* roll not to pursue. If you pursue an enemy, you roll a dice to see how far you go and may well hit whoever is behind the original routed unit. That may be want you want. For example, I routed a 2nd French brigade at the Battle of Talavera (see up thread) when the French infantry used defensive fire and missed every shot and the cavalry routed them too. It helps that superior cavalry (which most British cavalry is) also ignore the first hit when assaulting someone. ..or it might not. I wouldn't want to charge a spent or wavering cavalry unit into a large infantry unit or one with artillery (unless it's in the flank, like my first game when a British Heavy Dragoon unit IMPETUOUSLY charged straight into the flank of two French artillery units and routed them too). But British cavalry will do what British cavalry will do. -------------- * 1 command point if in command, 2 if not. 5+ roll to pass, 4+ if lead by a commander. Superior reroll 1's, Poor reroll 6's. Veteran's roll 3 dice, Drilled roll 2, Conscripts and irregular roll 1. Comstar fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 18, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2020 02:04
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:We fought a SP2 battle yesterday in our campaign that was dormant for almost a year! It's great to see it not just fizzle out. Can you tell me about Sharpe Practice 2? All the battle reports I'd seen before consisted of about 12 figures but you're photos clearly show large units WITH OFFICERS in the right place!
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2020 00:15
|
|
|
lilljonas posted:It's a very suitable game if you're kind of interested in Napoleonics, but you're put off by the idea of buying and painting 300 miniatures to even get started. That was my situation, I really knew nothing about Napoleonics before I was roped in to play SP2. Now I'm in the process of painting a dozen 28mm battalions or more for those larger games that I'd never even consider before. It's really addictive! ...I have 300 figures to paint or buy before my Field of Glory Napoleonic army is ready for the battlefield . I have not quite completed..one small unit. The army I've been using is a borrowed one and I can't keep mooching off it. I need to find the motivation tomorrow to paint a cavalry unit. Comstar fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Feb 22, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2020 12:13
|
|
|
I post battle reports so you don't have to. 7th FOGN game vs Russia 1815 Infantry corps. Following a break down in negotiations at the Congress of Vienna, the Russian army has deployed to invade PORTUGAL. General Viscount WELLINGTON has been forced to deploy his army to attack the town of CASCAISES that Russian infantry corps has occupied....  The Anglo-Portuguese army is on a probe with 1 or more divisions on a flanking march. The Russian army to the north is on a full scale Frontal Assault. Two Russian brigades defend the two parts of the town.  The Anglo-Portugeuse army (using Prussian Stand ins) I played my 7th Field of Glory Napoleonic game vs Dave amd his Russian 18th Infantry corps. I was using his Prussian army as stand in. Davie is rated in the top 10 general's in FOGN. You will shortly see why.  3rd and 1st division deploy on two steep hills. This will be a mistake. I wanted to try an envelop mission again, this time using the Light AND Cavalry division. My other divisions had large units so this time might be able to withstand the enemy for long enough. I deployed ON two steep hills (this was a big mistake).  A difficult river, walled paddock and impassable quarry are to the east.  The Russian army - three divisions in total.  They advance quickly, straight ahead.  I move to try and flank the assault, but too slow over the left hill and the right one slows me down too much. My 9 pounders failed to hit anything in the ENTIRE GAME. At this point I knew SOMETHING WAS VERY WRONG, but I didn't know what. But I had a feeling that today was not going to end in victory.  The Coldstream guards move to support the 44th foot.  The Russian dragoons and light infantry outflank the Highlander brigade. My guns are facing the wrong way and failed their roll to turn right fast enough.  The LIGHT DIVISION arrives. Will they be too late? The 95th rifles are to the left, the Lusitanian Legion in the centre, and Spanish guerrillas on the right. Ahead in the town is a poor conscript unit. My flank march arrived only 1 turn later than possible, but it was still too slow. If I had deployed my army BEHIND the steep hills, the attackers would still be approching me. As is, the flank march arrived 1 turn later than the earliest possible, and was still going to be too slow.  The Calvary division arrives too. The Heavy Dragoons advance quickly, the light dragoons and Portuguese dragons behind.  The armies engage.  Gunfire goes out, but I take a lot more disordered troops. I had to make a choice at this point. My guard unit on the left is wavering and has two steady enemy units to their front;. Do they charge (without support!) or stay. I decided to stay. Looking back, my only chance to win was to charge, and the odds were very bad. But better to charge with a Superior elan Veteran Guard unit than not. If they had made into hand to hand combat, they had a better chance at winning than shooting it out. +3  The Russian dragoons with a brigade commander get behind my lines and approach my line of communication.  My unit on the hill falls back, as the guards. Several of my units are disordered and the Russian army is nearly completely unaffected.  The Light Davison prepares to assault the town.  In they go!  The British Dragoons prepare to charge through the British lines.  My Line of Communication is broken, as is the Highlander unit that was holding the right flank. My artillery breaks and the centre is falling back.  The 95th rifles easily take the western side of the town  The Russian army is surrounding the British.  My right flank is retiring, my left flank is failing. Situation excellent, attack! The Heavy Dragoons charge forward and break a unit! However, they are BRITISH DRAGOONS and go straight forward and are unsupported.  My centre is giving way. Only the 21st Portuguese brigade stands in the way, and it's wavering.  The heavy dragoons flee and waver the Portuguese dragons. The 95th Rifles prepare to assault the right side of the town and the enemies line of communication, but are too late!  The centre of my line disintegrates and only one brigade stands on the right, surrounded. Merde. At the point around turn 2, where I knew SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG I could see I was going to be in trouble. What was the crucial mistake above all others was deploying on the steep hill. In FOGN artillery is practically useless on rough terrain and the artillery brigade did only 1 actual hit the entire battle. The infantry on it couldn't do much damage outside and took more damage in. I should have placed my army BEHIND the steep hills, and forced/lured the enemy to attack over them. Then the cavalry division would have hit them from behind. I also should have taken more note of where the enemy deployed, and simply moved to the left out of their way. Frontal assault can't change direction much for the first two turns. I could also not have got the river and instead got a road to place my LOC further left and out of range of his dragoons. It was too close. I'm not as good tactically as most players who have 1-30+ years experience of Napoleonic warfare. I'm going to take some soviet advice and lower the amount of divisions from 4 to 3, to make command of units simpler. In this game, it didn't help much having the extra morale reroll. The Portuguese dragoons didn't help much. A veteran KGL unit works better as a reserve and more able to support failure when it happens. One of my many mistakes was NOT assaulting with my Guards unit. They were wavering, but being Guards may have actually got into close combat, and won. I should commit them to that if it comes down to it. They, and the 95th Rifle's make a perfect assault unit on towns or fortifications, but would require a 2nd unit to go in with them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 2, 2020 13:05
|
|
|
I've been really looking forward to playing my first Field of Glory Napoleonic tourney next week. It breaks my heart to cancel going, but with the Coronovirus I don't dare risk it Hopefully I avoid getting killed by this thing and get to go next year. I want to have my own army then.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2020 11:38
|
|
|
Warlord is open againquote:Skeleton Staff
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2020 11:56
|
|
|
Just finished my first wargame since lockdown started. Field of Glory Napoleonic : British 1811 vs Moldova. I lost nearly the entire British Light Division and the entire British Calvary division. I disordered one of his units. For a turn. A complete and unmitigated disaster. Lessons learnt: Do Not Attempt A Frontal Attack In Spain. Do Not Attempt A Frontal Attack Over Steep Hills. British Light Rifle Infantry Cannot Assault Conscripts On Top Of a Hill If They Are Unsupported. Charging Heavy Shock Cavalry THROUGH Moldivan Grenadiers won't actually disorder them. In Conclusion I feel right now I should just give up attempting to play wargames. Much like my army, my morale is shattered. I feel like the only army I should attempt to play would be an Allied one for the Gallipoli campaign...and it would end in the same result. Perhaps fight the same way the British did at New Orleans in the war of 1812. Comstar fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Nov 7, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Nov 7, 2020 05:54
|
|
|
And now for the battle report here The Sun rises to the east. An Anglo-Portuguese corps advances to liberate an Spanish town held by the forces of Napoleon...a army from far away Moldova.  The Battlefield facing East towards the rising sun. Spain, 1809. Steep hills dominated the west side of the map, with a gentle hill in front of the main Spanish town to the north. Another Spanish village was to the east behind a small fordable river and forest. A swamp stood at an angle between both roads.  Looking north towards the Moldovian lines  My armies view up the main road I didn't look at my old posts and couldn't find a copy of my previous army lists, so I thought I'd go to the expects. This list is the list used by Alastair Donald at Cancon in 2020.  Dave bought a cheap British Army from Ebay (one thing I still dream about doing) and he was able to fit it out well. With only a competent commander, I was only able to block the Dave's army from using one (double one) mission - Static Defense. A mission I know Dave is unlikely to use anyway. I expected another Frontal Assault like last time, and wanted to try something new- a direct Frontal Assault of my own! What I didn't know is that the Moldovan army would choose to be more Napoleonic than I anticipated - and choose to do an Envelope mission. One or more of his divisions would arrive on one flank or the other, sometime after turn 2.  The Anglo-Portuguese army deploys for a Frontal ASsault I strongly suspected it would arrive to my west (left flank) but I thought I could get over the hills BEFORE they arrived - allowing me to attack his conscripts defending the hill; and village before they could march to the sound of the guns.  The CALVARY DIVISION on the left flank On my left flank I placed the CALVARY DIVISION. They were to delay any attack coming from the flank. What I didn't know was that if a flanking force comes within 6 inches of your units,. they immediately fall back AND take a morale loss. You can't stop them arriving (unlike how the rules I'd played under for 40k a long time ago).  The LIGHT DIVISION starts to cross the steep hills. The LIGHT DIVISION came next. I thought they would be best to get over the steep hills quickly and assault the enemy held hill and village the best. Turns out they did have the speed to do that..but the next division would not.  The GUARDS DIVISION Then the GUARDS Division - the best units in my army to act as the hinge and conduct a frontal attack on the enemy position on the hill in front of the town.  The VANGUARD Division on the right flank Finally the VANGUARD DIVISION on my right flank and to help guard that flank in case the enemy army came from the east.  The Allied Corps Commander tries and fails to get a better view of the battlefield  The Moldovan Army defends the town in depth. Dave setup his two mixed divisions in a defense in depth. His CONSCRIPT Division on the hill and town was my main target. His second, more powerful division with HEAVY RUSSIAN ARTILLERY was in the centre. Russian COSSACK'S were on the far left and right flank, along with some heavy cavalry and elite Hussars. Turn 1, on a frontal attack I moved my army forwards.  The steep hills so far don't slow me down too much as I can double move for free the first turn  The LIGHT DIVISION advances past its hill, while the GUARD DIVISION stops at the base of the next one  The Moldovan army reacts I was a bit worried by the two Calvary units hanging around my right flank, so I refused my right flank and held it back a bit. One of the cavalry units was an officer lead a Hussar with horse artillery so could be devastating if used at the right time.  Flanking the enemy held hill, and climbing the steep hill in front My cavalry guarded my left flank and the 95th Rifles advanced into the plain. The Guards unit was held up by the steep hill The Moldovan heavy cavalry and artillery moved to the centre to support the infantry there. Apart from the Guard units being held up a bit, everything was proceeding to plan...  Firing breaks out along the line What did NOT go proceeding to plan was the bad shooting by the entire British army. Only one unit Moldovan brigade was disorganized. Being on the steep hill had slowed and stopped my advance in the centre. And now an entire enemy division was seen to about to arrive on my left flank! When I had tried an envelope attack my units took another TWO turn to arrive, but my luck had deserted me at the very start of combat.  The next turns shooting didn't do much either To add insult to injury the conscripts on the hill did more damage back than I had done in.  The Moldvon 3rd division arrives on my left flank! Two heavy cavalry units and elite Grenadiers were now facing my light and heavy cavalry brigades. I had one turn to hold them off before my left flank would collapse and my light infantry assaulting the hill would be caught from behind. I could either try and fall back or go for broke and hope for some luck to break the conscripts before the trap shut over them.  The British Heavy Dragoons Charge! With nothing else to do, I sent my Impetuous Super Heavy Shock Cavalry charging into the teeth of the Moldovan Elite Grenadier. Naturally. they had no problems forming square, though the quick move did prevent them from hitting any horse with gunfire (the Moldovens rolled badly for once in the game)  The LIGHT DIVISION charge up the hill! With no time to lose, the 95th Rifles charged up the hill at the Moldvan Conscripts. It was not to be. The right hand brigade, already disordered by the gunfire coming from the hill, failed to commit the charge, and the left brigade, despite not being hit on the way in, could not budge the Conscripts as they were supposed be friendly units to the flank, rear AND on a hill. I should have had the Spanish Guerrilla unit supporting them,. and needed a turn of shooting done before hand, but I didn't have the time.  The Heavy Dragoons win! Somewhat amazingly to me, the Heavy Dragoon charge succeeds! It disorders the Grenadiers, but the horses are blown and the brigade is spent. They charge THROUGH THE SQUARE and end up on the other side...and that's it. The Grenadiers are hardly bothered by the whole thing. I really think something went very wrong with how the rules are working here. I suppose it sorta works like the French Calvary charges at Waterloo, but it still seems wrong.  The Light Division disintegrates Both Light Brigades rout. This also demoralizes the light Calvary. The Spanish Guerrilla's fall back in fear.. The Heavy Calvary is now BEHIND enemy lines but will be unable to charge anyone in the rear.  One bright spot but a small one In the centre my two divisions had started to crack the angle of the Moldovan Infantry. The Moldovan Cavalry was being held back and MAYBE I could have won the musket duel...but the Guard unit on the left was crippled the entire time by being on the steep hill, so only had 50% of their muskets able to fire and my luck continued to be nothing but bad.  The Hussar's rout  The Anglo-Portuguese army breaks With the 2 light rifle units, the cavalry and demoralized units all falling apart, the battle is over. The Moldovan army has one unit somewhat inconvenienced and will most probably rally back to normal next turn. A complete and unmitigated disaster. Back in 2nd edition 40k I lost neatly every battle I played. I came LAST in the Games Workshop Grand Tournament in Melbourne. At the end of this battle, I feel the same way - this is hopeless and why do I bother. I did write up a lot of things to keep in mind next battle and I've got a new army plan...but I'm worried it will all end the same. Ultimately my plan was very bad - I should have attacked over the easily fordable river and placed my LOC on a road going south from the eastern village. I really need to get some solo games in - at least that way I can beat SOMEONE.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2020 10:19
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
1st rule of war gaming: if you want a game play what anyone else plays locally. Field of glory isn’t that hard- I think it’s way more logical than Black powder. But there a few rules I haven’t experienced yet so they come as a surprise. This was the first battle I’ve done as a frontal attack and my plan was something Haig wouldn’t have thought a good idea. Also Dave wrote the literal book on how to win FOGN battles, so I’m at a disadvantage there. Also his brother is the ranked best player on the planet and Dave considers a miracle if he can fight his brother to a draw. Comstar fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Nov 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Nov 8, 2020 12:08
|
|