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homullus
Mar 27, 2009

They stop giving you paychecks, and when you don't stop coming to work, they relocate your office to the basement

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homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Nonexistence posted:

New from the minds who brought you Better Call Saul...

Better Call Gaul

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

I'm going to put all of you in a room and fill it with concrete.

Everyone else knows concrete doesn't exist.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Doorknob Slobber posted:

are there any cheapo diploma mill aba accredited online law schools?

Diploma mills are usually not cheap for any degree at any level -- they can charge whatever they want, since people who go there usually don't have any other choice. Mitchell Hamline has a hybrid program, which is mostly online, but still requires you to be on campus for about a week each semester.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Doorknob Slobber posted:

it looks like in my state you there are alternatives to going to law school to take the bar exam and be a lawyer which is pretty cool. The cheapest path to lawyering here is probably something like, paralegal associates degree, limited license legal technician program to make money to pay for the next steps, paralegal bachelors program, law clerk program and then attorney.

The cheapest path by far is to get a fantastic LSAT score and go to a low-ranking accredited school with a part-time program.

Edit: the LSAT is for scholarship money

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Doorknob Slobber posted:

that seems hard. You big time lawyers made fun of me for my basic knowledge of finding ways to take care of my own legal poo poo, but thats more than 99% of people can do and even if you could hire a lawyer for any of that poo poo it would probably be prohibitively expensive. When I was searching for a lawyer to help me get money from an uninsured driver who hit my car I ended up doing it mainly by myself and a little help from this thread and I ended up getting 10k which was 4k more than we spent on the car. No attorney would even actually help me because 'there was no guarantee we'd get any money'. My main interest in law would be helping myself and other people in situations like that where they can't find help anywhere else, not necessarily being some big shot lawyer making crisp hundred dollar bills every few minutes. Thats also why I said the end-game for me isn't necessarily being a lawyer, but learning more about law.
I'm not a big-time lawyer, I'm a dude working full-time and going to law school in the evening at a low-ranking school, after studying for the LSAT to get a scholarship.

If practicing for the LSAT (which has no law content) sounds hard, why are you even contemplating the Rube Goldberg admission to the bar?

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Nevvy Z posted:

This school will have a harder curve than better schools and a 3.2 gpa requirement to keep your scholarship. Statistically some of those in the top of your class will not have a scholarship.

Some schools (from Harvard to TTT) offer such scholarships with no GPA requirements beyond those for staying in the school. In not offering conditional scholarships, schools do not have to post an ABA Conditional Scholarship Retention Worksheet at all.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Make sure you use the phrase "playing the race card." Judges love puns.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Ciaphas posted:

how often do they get to pun in an official opinion or judgment, i love reading that sort of thing

Judges are discouraged from being funny (it undercuts their own authority and makes their written opinion a less usable document), but occasionally there is somewhat amusing stuff.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

I did wonder whether anybody would ever claim that rising sea levels due to global warming, and thus the loss of their dry sand beach, would be a taking, due to the government's pollution standards.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

blarzgh posted:

One of the elements of conversion and theft is that the property belongs to another, therefore, like a peacock trying to kill the other peacock in the mirror, it makes your classmate an idiot, not a thief, technically or otherwise.

What if the statute for attempt says somebody is guilty even if it was impossible to commit the crime in question, though?

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Pook Good Mook posted:

Also "impossibility" deals with factual impossibility. Stealing your own food is a legal impossibility.

Ah, right. I drive to your house to steal one of your kidneys, but you're not home: factually impossible. I drive to your house to steal the moon: factually impossible, and possibly excused if the statute carves out "obviously" impossible. Driving to your house to steal one of your kidneys, but it turns out that it's my kidney: legally impossible.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

ChocNitty posted:

i had to hire a lawyer recently. I wasn’t surprised to learn that the popular lawyers delegate most of their work to assistants. Wasn’t surprised that some don’t do any of the work. But I was surprised to learn that some firms use the name and photos of a lawyer who’s been in full retirement for years.

Walt Disney and Colonel Sanders have been dead a long time, too.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

blarzgh posted:

Bad news, every state I'm aware of prohibits the use of trade names for your firm, and requires that you use partner names, dead or alive.

Trade names are allowed in the model rules and many states.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Change your name to Mart Murdock and open Daredevil Law, see who sues harder.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

null_pointer posted:

Haikus aside, is this really something ginned up by a corporate lawyer with too much time on their hands? If I resisted and said "That doesn't make any sense, what risk are we actually mitigating?" would they start to stammer?

The process of arguing with somebody about their baseless claim costs money.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Soothing Vapors posted:

Great posts guys. Very helpful.

"Nuisance Percy" would be a great band name though.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

Lingua Anglica peius peior (quam) linguam Latinam

A lot of humanities and social sciences academic writing is about trying to sound as educated as possible at all times to impress/intimidate your reader, even at the expense of obscuring your point. My limited experience with legal academic writing is that this same urge is funneled into Latin.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

Legalis Latium nones verdid justicam.
Lorax ipsem color sit amet; constipatur adipiscing L337?

homullus
Mar 27, 2009


I was disappointed that it wasn't about William Barr.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

evilweasel posted:

No, under the de minimis non curat lex doctrine.

But see Johnson v. United States, 469 U.S. 111 (dicta)

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

euphronius posted:

If you are bored and want to learn about how loving stupid American corporate law is : this case is awesome


https://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=77400

Skip to page 86 for the waste claim but the facts are amazing



I think my "favorite" is still Dodge v. Ford, where dem Dodge Brothers successfully sued progressive Jews-hater Henry Ford for giving "I think it will help people" as his reason for re-investing profits in the company. If he had still decided to raise salaries and invest profits in more factories, but instead had said "I think it will help the company," Ford could have won. The Dodge brothers were both murdered by a notorious gang of flu viruses shortly thereafter, and so only their widows got to watch capitalism unhinge its jaw and begin swallowing the country.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

I'd probably make a bad lawyer because I'd be trying to curry favor from the judge by being especially tidy and respectful of their time and telling my clients straight up "no we can't argue this because it won't work because the law doesn't work that way, period" and thereby passing up all the fat idiot client lawyer bux you guys scrape in hand over fist.

Are you imagining that cases have obvious right outcomes all the time, and one side is stuck arguing awful stuff? They are like that sometimes, sure, but often there are bad acts, bad facts, or unclear law on both sides. You rarely see cases with exactly the same situation as the precedent(s). An interesting or horrific feature of common law is that judges can read precedent however they want, to arrive at the answer they want. They can look at a precedent and say "yes, that law still applies here, to these different facts" or they can say "well, these facts are different, so that precedent doesn't apply." If the precedent isn't on your side, you do your best to encourage the judge to distinguish it. Afterward, the judge's opinion will make the judgment sound like the natural outcome, and potentially make the other argument sound stupid.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Mistakes you made at the incorporation stage, but discover down the road, can be orders of magnitude more expensive than an "expensive" lawyer up front.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

ceebee posted:

We all gotta start somewhere. Bottom of the well is a dark place though

Your commitment to learning will help you a lot. You should be learning this stuff from a lawyer who knows what they're doing. I forget who suggested the incubator/clinic, but that's a really good option for no- or low-cost up-front advice. Law schools offer them, with experienced IP attorneys supervising law school students, as an accessible quasi-pro-bono/education combo. You have a lot of law schools out there; check them for IP clinics. Those clinics may even be happening remotely right now, so you can cast your net wider. It probably won't cost you much and you might believe them, even if you don't believe us.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

wikipedia says basically even if you didn't make the forgery, if you pass off the forgery knowing it's a forgery, that's uttering. Nevermind that the word 'uttering' in normal English just means to say something out loud. Legal vocabulary is a different language.

Law retains some word usages that normal English has dropped. Compare normal English release which has both the "let go/let out" and "publish" senses.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

I haven't been posting all that long in this thread but you might have already gathered: I really enjoy posts that elaborate on the deep deep pits of the law. You might even say I intentionally try to instigate them.

Old editions of 1L casebooks (property, torts, contracts, constitutional law, criminal law, civil procedure) are easily-obtained and inexpensive, because most courses will use the new editions. They will vary, but will be a great starting point, and most will seem lively to a technical writer.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

Internships in a bunch of different professions are really good ideas. But they should be paid. It's wrong to demand people work for free, and it's counterproductive to having a diverse workforce to insist that only those with the accumulated personal wealth to work for free for an extended period of time be allowed to join the profession.

I did an internship before becoming a technical writer, but it was 8 weeks, and it was paid. Not that it was anything like as rigorous as you'd do for a law internship, but I'm a big believer in paying people for their work.

US law school students can now simultaneously receive credit and be paid for internship-type experiences. There are still a lot of "we will pay you with experience" deals out there though.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

BonerGhost posted:

The disconnect for me is that everything I need is on the drat list which is sent to my instructors. It just seems like a way to create a gotcha where an instructor isn't required to write down their expectations unless I tell them "yes I really do need you to write down what you expect" even though it's on my plan and my only responsibility listed for using that accommodation is to have the accommodation on my plan.

It seems like an additional burden to accessing accommodations where I get dicked over if I didn't anticipate an instructor giving out this information verbally in not-required review session meetings, for example.

It's uncommon (but not rare) for students with approved accommodations to find that they don't need a given accommodation in a certain class (making the request a matter of the student's discretion), common for faculty to want students to take an active role in their education, and extremely common for faculty to not want to take orders from the administration directly.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

BonerGhost posted:

E: honestly I'm mainly pissed off about this instructor blowing off my request for a written explanation and being really rude about it to boot. The way I have to access accommodations just doesn't make sense to me, but if it's legal it's legal I guess.

Thanks for chiming in but I want to point out that framing this as "an active role in my education" is really dismissive of not only the work I do in my classes but the additional work I have to do to access legally required accommodations, including advising instructors how to make their classes accessible (which is normally a paid position) because abled people don't consider any of this labor their responsibility.

Yup. I am not speaking as a college professor, but as somebody who used to deal with them. What should actually happen is departments should be told about the common accommodations when they submit a new course for review, and in that process explain how the course deals with them (or if the course literally cannot, that should be up front information for all students). The instructors for a course should know about how accommodations work in advance, and be prepared to make those changes to the course as soon as a student who needs them adds the course within the prescribed period.

Not all disabilities can be accommodated in all curricula, in all classes, but higher ed has been dealing with this for many decades and really ought to have it routinized by now. They frame it as your taking an active role in your education.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Ghosthotel posted:

So last Christmas I won a couple months of one of those “we send 3 meals a week” services in a raffle at a company Christmas party. The thing is I haven’t worked for the company for a few months now, and I’m still receiving the weekly shipments of food even though it’s way past the amount of time that I had won in the raffle.

Anyone who would even remember me winning this has to my knowledge left the company or been laid off. The amount that they’re paying in monthly subscription fees is likely a tiny blip on their finances which is why I guess no one has noticed. I kind of want to just let it rock and let them keep paying for free dinners for me but is there anyway I can get in trouble for this legally if they ever realize what’s going on?

The FDA could come after you for being unjustly enriched with seven vitamins and iron.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

therobit posted:

On the first day you have to beat up the biggest, baddest dude you can find or else you're gonna be force-fed vitamin D for your entire stay.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

Little personal anecdote: my older sister worked as an administrator at a preschool. One day, she tripped while climbing over one of those doorway baby fences and broke her foot. Just a little bone in her foot. Of course, that made it a workers' comp claim while she was out of work for what she assumed would be a few weeks at most.

Unfortunately, while the bone eventually knit, she developed Chronic Pain Syndrome (CPS). She's in pain constantly. They went through various drugs, tried a surgery, put in a nerve block, etc. but nothing has really worked. She's basically crippled for life and in so much pain/on drugs that she can't work, plus you know, psychological damage (she was her family's only breadwinner because her husband is paralyzed, both her sons are special needs kids, the whole situation is tragic and awful). Her workers' comp claim is now a lawsuit in which she is attempting to recover a lifetime of lost wages plus medical costs. I don't know the exact number they're shooting for but I'm fairy sure it's in the low seven figures.

Anyway tl;dr, any injury can lead to a million-plus-dollar medical/lost-wages claim. Even a seemingly minor one can lead to complications. $100k is not very much money if an accident victim is just a little bit unlucky.

My sister had something similar happen, except it was a kid who rammed into her foot with a shopping cart. Lifetime of pain, limited mobility. She can still work somewhat, though nothing with a lot of moving around.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

MonkeyBot posted:

Man at that point see if you can just get the damned foot removed. Although since insurance companis are dicks maybe wait until after the huge settlement so you can pay for it. I figure a foot prosthetic probably isn't too limiting.

Even if you were serious, you should be aware that removing something that hurts doesn't necessarily stop it from hurting (this is called phantom pain, but it's the limb that's the phantom, not the pain).

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Leperflesh posted:

Yeah my sister says that CPS isn't actually caused by the injury site, and removing the foot wouldn't actually cure the CPS. It's a syndrome that is developed or triggered by an injury but the injury itself can fully heal and the syndrome remains. It's definitely at least partially neurological, it's not yet well understood, it's definitely not "phantom pain" or "all in your head" kind of thing either

It sounds as though you may be putting phantom pain in the same box as "all in your head," especially with the scare quotes. Phantom pain is a well-documented sequela of amputation.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Wouldn't the tools be theoretically covered by the employee's homeowner's/renter's insurance?

Edit: nevermind, forgot the bit where they aren't insured.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009


For real, you should also delete that most recent post.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

LLCs are different because they a "new" (1970s) business form created by the state statute. LLCs can be member-managed or manager-managed. In the case of the former, it is what it says: some or all members (those who would be shareholders if it were a corporation) of the LLC decide what happens. An abundance of small LLCs in the US are small, member-managed affairs where the members know each other. The principles of good faith and fair dealing in every contract also apply to the managers of LLCs, whether those managers are members or not.

Recourse for managers making questionable decisions would be affected by statute and the LLC's operating agreement, which can set the legal actions that members can take against each other.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

azflyboy posted:

Thanks everyone.

Like I said, I've got no issue paying the bill, but the fact that the ER is charging absurd amounts (they billed my insurance $3500 for a covid test, influenza test, and EKG reading that all took less than 90 minutes), and sent the bill with a letter threatening dire consequences if it's not paid promptly (after they took nine months to even send it) just made me curious if there was some kind of way to screw them back.

ok maybe don't post on the internet about how you plan to screw people out of debts you've incurred

also, with medicine, you are paying for their expertise and equipment, in addition to their time and subsidizing the bills of people who visit the ER and can't pay at all

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homullus
Mar 27, 2009

pseudanonymous posted:

Uh no you're paying for a vastly bloated apparatus to extract profit from peoples health.

Or do you think the United States is magical and health care equipment magically costs more here or something?

how about "when you pay for any service you are not just paying for the time they spent, but also their expertise and equipment"

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