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SkellingTon Loc posted:If I've loved everything else he's done including Loveless will I still find it as bad as you guys are making it out to be? No. I love the Azzarello run, and it's VERY Azzarello, so if you like his other stuff, definitely read it. Hard Time is one of my favorite Hellblazer stories ever, and the whole run is pretty awesome/unique.
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Sep 25, 2011 22:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Personally, I'd have cast Tim Roth as Constantine. Dominic West. Boom. Ever since I watched the Wire, he's been the only dude I can picture playing John now and forever.
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Nov 16, 2012 03:53
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Martello posted:So is everyone just taking Fowler's word for it? I can believe Wood was trying to pick her up at a con, but maybe she's blowing out of proportion for revenge purposes. I dunno, I just think that the twitter accusation stuff has gotten out of hand at this point. Someone tweets something and all of a sudden it's gospel. As Lurdiak pointed out, a lot more has come out since then and all available evidence points to Wood being a bit of a douchebag to women. This timeline Waterhaul shared in the Chat thread breaks it down nicely. As to the second part though, you do you, man. If you enjoy his work, there's no rule saying you can't continue to. I tend to err on the side of caution and just assume most artists are scumbags.
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Nov 19, 2013 23:49
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Speaking of Hellblazer I've been re-reading my way through Garth Ennis' run and while most of it holds up Damnation's Flame suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Definitely a far worse "Constantine comes to America" story than anything in Azzarello's run, by like a factor of 10.
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Jan 15, 2014 16:46
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Jedit posted:Constantine has never worked in America. I'm actually one of those people who loves the Azzarello run, but I love basically everything Azzarello touches. Damnation's Flame, though, Jesus. I don't remember having this reaction to it when I first read that story about 5 years ago, but this go around it was just excruciatingly embarrassing.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:54
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God Of Paradise posted:That's weird. I liked Damnation's Flame and it's bad acid trip America. The Kennedy stuff's okay but the awful monologue about Lady Liberty getting gang-raped in Central Park followed by the flock of anthropomorphized dollar bills descending like bats shouting poo poo like "I FUNDED SADDAM HUSSEIN" made me want to kill myself. I'll see if I can post some scans later, it's truly abysmal.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:52
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Lurdiak posted:You'll have to do a lot worse than heavy-handed criticism of America and capitalism to come close to The Town That hosed Dogs. The Town That hosed Dogs arc ruled though. Believe me, I'm not coming here to bury Ennis. I love Ennis, and I love most of his Hellblazer run. But that arc is loving dire.
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Jan 16, 2014 01:29
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Hakkesshu posted:You know what, I'm kind of sick of giving him a pass. gently caress Ennis. Even the good comics he's done aren't necessarily worth defending in light of the rest of his absolutely fecal catalogue. Ennis is hit or miss but when he's on (Punisher MAX, Fury MAX, many of his war comics) he's one of the all-time greats for crime/military comics. Also "Until the End of the World" from Preacher is one of the great horror comics stories. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 18:06
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Preacher has its ups and downs but "Until The End Of The World" is a masterpiece of Southern Gothic horror on par with anything by Joe R. Lansdale. It's one of the best single stories 90s Vertigo ever produced.Hakkesshu posted:Why people are making GBS threads all over someone like Kirkman for being too pointlessly dark and cynical while evangelizing that piece of poo poo, I'll never understand. For one, Ennis is one of the best dialogue writers in comics, whereas Kirkman could never write dialogue to save his life. Also Ennis has at least a rudimentary grasp of the idea that stories have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:22
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Hakkesshu posted:Oh, I'm not saying Kirkman is a super awesome writer, but whenever anyone brings up Invincible here, everyone goes on about how brutal and dark it is, which I think is like the least of that book's problems. Compare that to something like The Boys, which I just find to be utterly revolting in every way. I think the reason that comes up with Invincible so often is because at that book's outset, it was a fairly teen-friendly, fun, bright superhero book, not too far afield from Ultimate Spider-Man. Something you could feel good about giving to a young adult just starting to get into comics. So for it to make this steep descent into insanely violent goreporn both (a) feels wildly incongruous with the tone that made the book work in the first place, (b) feels just generally icky for taking place in a teen superhero book, and (c) feels like an extra blatant cash-in attempt from Kirkman realizing "Hey, gore sells!" with The Walking Dead (this part became extra clear with his hilarious announcement at Image Con earlier this week).
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Jan 17, 2014 18:33
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Hakkesshu posted:This is exactly what Preacher and The Boys is, though. loving constant despair and horrible people being horrible. Shock value is Ennis' entire loving schtick. Preacher and even the Boys have a lot of moments of hope and humor interspersed to lighten things up, though. Also that whole "story with a beginning, a middle, and an end" thing I mentioned earlier. To say shock value is the only thing he has going for him makes it seem less like you read his comics and more like you skimmed them. The Walking Dead is just an endless, repetitive death march that's as poorly drawn (with the exception of Tony Moore's all-too-brief tenure, not that I'm not glad he got to escape to better books) as it is poorly written.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:21
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Hakkesshu posted:Ennis' attempts at humour are possibly the single worst parts of his stories, though. Occasionally, I agree. But stuff like the first two Barracuda arcs in Punisher MAX and much of his Marvel Knights Punisher run gets me. The humor is definitely the most contentious part of his work, though, and I do tend to prefer his more serious works most of the time.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:27
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The nicest thing I can say about Robert Kirkman is that The Walking Dead is a massive cash cow for Image, which allows them to publish lots of adventurous comics by vastly better writers.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:44
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Literally The Worst posted:And Ennis's work isn't really cynical! With the exception of Punisher MAX (which I'd argue is cynical because it's a response to Hitman but that's a whole other bag) and Crossed, his books are driven by that shred of hope, by the light at the end of the tunnel. Like The Boys looks like this horribly jaded look at comics, which it partly is, but it's all coming out of the mouths of horrible people. The character the audience is supposed to identify with is the one who says "Wait, no, that's not right", the one who's pointing out that the whole world isn't poo poo. I'd say even Crossed manages to include that shred of hope. One of the most impressive things about that book is that after 8 issues of some of the most horrifying, nightmarish imagery imaginable it manages to find the closest thing possible to a happy ending and not have it feel like a cheat. Hakkesshu posted:You can't just emphatically say there's a point to every piece of violence in every single issue of Ennis' work, though. I mean by that same token I could claim there's just as much of a point to the violence in The Walking Dead as there is in every piece of zombie fiction. There are plenty of loving times where Ennis does violence for violence's sake. loving blood orgies are a common trope throughout his books. This seems like a very strange set of standards to uphold and I'm not sure I fully understand it.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:53
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Hakkesshu posted:Which is the point because the dehumanization and trivialization of death is like the single most common theme in zombie fiction. This is true, but it also goes hand-in-hand with why The Walking Dead is such lazy hackwork. It's just an endless cycle of zombie/post-apocalypse tropes that resets itself every 1.5 years or so, ad infinitum, until the money runs out.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:00
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Literally The Worst posted:See this implies that he's incapable of writing a good comic without these things and yet Hitman exists. Dickeye I'm on your side here but I would not use Hitman as an example of a comic free of sex and violence.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:11
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Literally The Worst posted:Kick-rear end is a fantastic hate screed against Mark Millar fans, don't loving step. Kick-rear end blows chunks apart from some very nice JrJr artwork but I will throw my hat in the ring for Ultimates 1 & 2. But now we're getting off topic.
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Jan 17, 2014 20:26
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Lurdiak posted:Nah, man, Ellis reminds me of being a dumb teen. Ennis reminds me of the guys in my grade who beat up the skinny kid with Tourette's so bad that he missed a week of school. What the hell? Seriously, dude, is any writer so bad that you have to equate them with poo poo like this? "Man, Ennis is such a bad writer, I'll be he wouldn't feel bad at all about beating up people with speech impediments." Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 15:58
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Jedit posted:You do realise that one of the main butts in Preacher was an unpopular skinny kid with a major speech impediment? (1) Ennis clearly had a lot of affection for Arseface as a character and acting like the character was simply a one-note joke once again smacks of skimming Preacher instead of actually reading it (2) equating tasteless humor in a work of fiction with physical assault to the point of hospitalization in real life is incredibly loaded and unfair criticism.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:05
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Jedit posted:Then you get his backstory in the side issue, and he's pretty much painted as someone who is a loser because they don't want to fit in. ...if that's what you get out of a story about a kid who is emotionally and physically abused his whole life until he's driven to suicide, I don't know what to tell you. Lurdiak posted:I was referring to their work's respective tones, not the content of their characters. Ennis is a mean-rear end writer. Ah, well in that sense I agree with you, although it still seems to me like a weirdly loaded way to put it.
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Jan 21, 2014 04:54
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Jedit posted:Read the scene after he shot himself and Pube's sister comes to visit him in the hospital. It's pure victim blaming. A grieving fictional character refusing to accept or condone suicide is not the same thing as victim blaming, and with the rest of the issue Ennis gives us plenty of reason to empathize with him an understand why he did it, but like I said: if that's what you took away from that comic, I really don't know what to tell you.
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Jan 21, 2014 14:57
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Personally, I think 100 Bullets is maybe the best comic book of the past 25 years so I'll be that dude who tells you to stick with it.
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Apr 9, 2014 12:43
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The Herr Starr one shot is definitely one of the best issues.
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Jul 3, 2014 15:42
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Herr Starr is one of my favorite characters because at times he exists purely as a vehicle for Ennis to get out his most puerile humor, but then he also has moments of shocking depth and winds up being one of the most understandably motivated villains in an Ennis comic.
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Jul 3, 2014 15:49
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Yeah Delano's run is cool, particularly that whole arc where he's living with a bunch of hippies in a tent.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:15
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Benny the Snake posted:Oh okay. What's everybody's favorite Hellblazer trade? I'll probably hop on the Dangerous Habits bandwagon, with Hard Time as 2nd place pick.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:29
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onefish posted:Okay, DMZ full run is on sale on Comixology. I haven't read it. I read and enjoyed Transmetropolitan, Preacher, Lucifer, Sandman, Scalped, Sweet Tooth, Y: The Last Man from Vertigo. I thought it was a really neat premise but the book doesn't seem to commit to it fully, really. I got through the first oversized hardcover and decided to pass on the rest.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:59
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Kull the Conqueror posted:I still haven't finished DMZ; it definitely drooped in volume 5 and I haven't continued with it yet beyond vol. 6. However, the first four volumes (1-22) are stupendous, especially 18-22. Wood's science fiction is very grounded in contemporary geopolitics (dude does more research than a lot of writers), and as such it might come off to some as detrimentally didactic, but I think he sets a great and engaging tone. I also think his current series, The Massive, is an improvement over the kind of work he did with DMZ. It's funny how for years all I heard was how depressing DMZ was but then when I tried reading it all I could think was "man, if this happened in real life it would be so much worse."
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Aug 5, 2014 21:07
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Jedit posted:Anything with "Azzarello" on the cover. But those are the best ones
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Oct 8, 2014 12:53
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Jedit posted:You are entitled to your opinion, but I prefer to read John Constantine: Hellblazer when it has John Constantine in it. You should try the Azzarello run, it's good. Pope Guilty posted:You're thinking of Jamie Delano. Yeah Delano and most of the Ennis run are probably better but Azzarello's a solid 3rd place. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 15:21
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bobkatt013 posted:Gotta disagree with that. Delano, Ennis, Jenkins, and Casey had the best runs. Azzarello had one or two solid storylines and the rest were just dogshit. Denise Mina was just awful, and Ellis and Milligan were in the middle. Ellis could have been better if he was not cut short. I've only read bits and pieces of the Jenkins run but I don't care for it at all. I don't know if I've ever liked a Paul Jenkins book, actually. Some of his Sentry stuff was okay I guess.
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Oct 8, 2014 15:36
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Lurdiak posted:I once showed a few panels of Azzarello's Hellblazer to a friend, and he didn't believe me that it was real dialogue written by a professional writer. Your friend should read more. I know I'm the only one here who likes Azzarello's run, but that's okay because I know it's great. Hell, it maintains a consistent high note better than Ennis' run, even if its peaks aren't quite as high.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:43
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Literally The Worst posted:Ellis's run on Hellblazer is fuckin doodoo. I like Haunted but his single issue stories there are not some of his better work.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:08
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I forgot about Dickeye's irrational hatred of Ellis, carry on.
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Oct 9, 2014 15:24
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Jedit posted:I don't hate what Ellis writes (except Planetary, gently caress that overhyped poo poo), I just hate Ellis. The man's a contemptible dog with zero respect for the fans who put food on his table. That sounds dope. Ellis is hit or miss, but I thought his Moon Knight was a big one for the "hit" column.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:06
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God Of Paradise posted:All that said, I'm in the minority opinion, being a fan of Steve Dillon's art work. Either I get it, and very few other people get it, or I don't get it at all. I love Dillon too. I feel like people would not remember Preacher half so fondly if not for his art.
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Nov 11, 2014 14:51
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Alhazred posted:Dillon's art in Preacher was pretty good though: I like his art in Hellblazer, too. His contributions make the Mortal Clay arc particularly gruesome.
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Nov 12, 2014 16:45
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GrandpaPants posted:I'm still a bit sad that Crossing Midnight was canceled way too early. Mike Carey playing with Japanese mythology should have been a thing He does that a lot in the second story arc of Lucifer. It's really good.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:12
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Pope Guilty posted:Also TV Constantine's love of 70's punk rock makes way less sense if he's a young man in 2015. i mean, i'm a young man in 2015, and i love '70s punk rock
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Aug 17, 2015 20:55
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Jedit posted:Vertigo books have been doing that a lot in the last few years. Crossing Midnight was the first, but Coffin Hill and Hinterkind also wrapped everything up in a couple of very rushed issues. I recently reread The Losers and i still really like it but it kind of suffers from this.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:27
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