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Runa posted:I cannot agree that Crosscode has the best dungeons, on principle. i hope they eventually do a CrossCode 2 but i should at least do the DLC at some point yeah the first two wild arms have some good dungeons too. wild arms 4 is still, for reasons i can't explain, one of my favorites in the series, and its dungeons aren't quite as good as 1 or 2's, but i do like certain aspects of them, like the time-freeze and the hidden platforms and such (i haven't played 5) e: also i'm an Etrian Odyssey fan so i'm not scared by a dungeon marathon. i beat ff3 with its boss rush final dungeon on the fuckin borked iOS port lol The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 04:23
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yeah tales of dungeons are funny cause there are humongous gaps in design quality between games. symphonia's dungeons suck, abyss' dungeons are okay, vesperia's dungeons are kind of mid. tales of legendia and tales of innocence's dungeons barely qualify as anything. but then most of the dungeons in the 2d games are fine to good and the ones in graces are alright.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:24
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the xillia-berseria era of dungeons that are mostly kinda big open plains that are also mini-mazes had issues but i'll take it over how annoying some of symphonia's are
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Apr 28, 2024 04:27
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pit traps.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:54
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I don't know that I really hate any specific type of dungeon but if I had to name my individual least favorite dungeon ever it'd probably have to go to YHVH's Universe in SMT4A. I swear that dungeon is like 10% of the entire game and it's incredibly tedious, actively painful to look at and filled with annoying encounters. It's this big And most of it looks like this  I hate it with every fiber of my being. It actively drops SMT4A several places on my overall SMT game rankings just due to it existing.
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Apr 28, 2024 04:55
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YHVH's universe made me motion sick. It's the only game in history to do so that wasn't in VR. Bad times all around
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Apr 28, 2024 04:56
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loving hell, Proving Grounds.
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Apr 28, 2024 05:03
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proving grounds was fine, idk what the griping is about, it’s the first non basic dungeon and it’s still pretty basic. and the encounter rate has been low for me all game on console
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Apr 28, 2024 05:13
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Worst dungeon gimmick is invisible, silent spinners in a series of identical corridors with no minimap. Weirdly though, that exact gimmick is a great shootout in Prey (the native american one)
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Apr 28, 2024 05:17
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I'll take any sort of memorable dungeon gimmick over a series of corridors leading into a large circular platform signaling a boss fight
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Apr 28, 2024 05:22
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i will take a series of corridors over 99.9% of jrpg puzzle dungeons tbh. i play jrpgs for story and combat. if i wanted puzzles or dungeon crawling id play a different game.
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Apr 28, 2024 05:26
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The 7th Guest posted:proving grounds was fine, idk what the griping is about, it’s the first non basic dungeon and it’s still pretty basic. and the encounter rate has been low for me all game on console Hang on let me spin this hallway. Okay so that opened up a path that involves going through the same offshoot for the third time to get to a different offshoot with a switch in it. Okay back through that same route to spin the hallways to— It’s tedious, even if it’s not overly long. Plus self-destructing enemies that are faster than your party suck.
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Apr 28, 2024 05:56
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any dungeon where the gimmick is that they just remove a core mechanic like "spells" or force you into a solo party
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Apr 28, 2024 06:08
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Endorph posted:i will take a series of corridors over 99.9% of jrpg puzzle dungeons tbh. i play jrpgs for story and combat. if i wanted puzzles or dungeon crawling id play a different game.
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Apr 28, 2024 06:11
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Endorph posted:i will take a series of corridors over 99.9% of jrpg puzzle dungeons tbh. i play jrpgs for story and combat. if i wanted puzzles or dungeon crawling id play a different game.
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Apr 28, 2024 06:11
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The 7th Guest posted:e: also i'm an Etrian Odyssey fan so i'm not scared by a dungeon marathon. i beat ff3 with its boss rush final dungeon on the fuckin borked iOS port lol Glad you brought this up, since I was thinking about it and some of my favorite level design for turn-based games are EO and old-school SMT. At least in EO's case, and Strange Journey maybe, it feels weird to call them dungeons since exploring the strata is like 90% of the game. It'd still make sense in that the genre is called dungeon crawlers for a reason, but that's different from RPG dungeons that are pretty measured and isolated parts of the experience, at least most of the time. In games like Strange Journey I really didn't mind stuff like the warp mazes since things like random encounters really were designed to wear down your resources in a way that I found compelling rather than tedious (I only played the original DS Strange Journey, haven't touched the remake on 3DS so don't know if they've sanded that down). Proper dungeons in the traditional sense, my modern favorites would be stuff like Stormveil Castle in Elden Ring and Hyrule Castle in Breath of the Wild (I loved Tears but nothing in that game came close to how good Breath's HC was). Both of those I think are pretty much level design masterclasses and I don't think that's a controversial viewpoint. They're both open-ended dungeons that work perfectly within the constraints of their games, with various routes or optional paths with actual rewards that are pretty much there just to see if someone would take them (until stuff like fextralife told you where everything is, of course). Older stuff is fun to think about. If you asked my child self what the worse dungeon in the world was it'd probably be Elecman's level in battle network 1 lol (I played the collection last year and I still don't know what the BN1 people where huffing, what with all of the general internet looking all the same and some stuff like Ice Man's levels requiring you to drop on exactly the right path.) There's also stuff that did it proper. Like, I think the first 2 generations of Pokemon did it right by hiding all the legendary creatures in out of the way dungeons that weren't required by the story. Made every time you dropped into someplace you hadn't been feel special. So talking about what dungeons I find the best it'd be pretty hard to top the nostalgia of stuff like the Cerulean Cave or the Whirl Islands, since they felt so mystical and important going in and the payoff felt absolutely worth it at the time. Newer stuff I mostly come down to this: Endorph posted:i will take a series of corridors over 99.9% of jrpg puzzle dungeons tbh. i play jrpgs for story and combat. if i wanted puzzles or dungeon crawling id play a different game. Like, yeah. RPG dungeons mostly suck lol so, like The Coronel said, I really don't mind that, say, Tales after Vesperia have mostly boiled it down to some corridors where combat happens. At most they'll make you pick like Arise where there's the optional stuff that's somewhat challenging to your level or you can just keep on with the story and gently caress off.
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Apr 28, 2024 06:40
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fridge corn posted:The Wild Arms world map music in Eiyuden Chronicle is weirding me out I am not picking up any Ecstasy of Gold from the overworld. Though I am only in the first area. Does the theme change as you progress?
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Apr 28, 2024 07:27
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Bussamove posted:Hang on let me spin this hallway. Okay so that opened up a path that involves going through the same offshoot for the third time to get to a different offshoot with a switch in it. Okay back through that same route to spin the hallways to— I mostly agree that they should have added a shortcut or something, because there was no reason for it to be three rooms from the object that turns the central hallway to the entrances into that hallway. But the Proving Grounds gets a nod as alright from me because they actually modified the encounter rate for it. If you take a relatively efficient path, you won't get into any fights when moving in that three room stretch from the center to the spinning hallway. That made it tolerable. Eiyuden's gimmick dungeons are generally pretty good by RPG gimmick dungeon standards. I appreciate the dungeon that's just you visiting Castlevania for a bit, in fine Suikoden 1/2 tradition. Seign's dungeon section does suck, but that's encounter design and not the dungeon itself, which is generically inoffensive.
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Apr 28, 2024 07:40
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It was already mentioned, but I can’t stress enough how much I hate Phantasy Star 2’s dungeons.
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Apr 28, 2024 08:06
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I'm loving the route split in Eiyuden Chronicles so far. Nowa: "How was your mission?" Seign: "I had to fight a series of horrific monstrosities and an innocent boy had his arm cut off in front of his sister. You?" Nowa: "I raced sailboats with shark people that talk like pirates!"
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Apr 28, 2024 08:13
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Apparently every character in Eiyuden has an elemental affinity and it controls how good they are with each one and there is no way in game to learn this. Also if you were thinking well, Barudak its obvious if a character comes with a certain element equipped thats their best not always and sometimes it means absolutely nothing like with Francesca Edit: It also looks like the hero combos are all negative on dps versus attacking separately so if it doesnt have a secondary effect like stealing, aoe, etc its actively worse than taking two separate turns in all scenarios. Barudak fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 08:25
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Barudak posted:Edit: It also looks like the hero combos are all negative on dps versus attacking separately so if it doesnt have a secondary effect like stealing, aoe, etc its actively worse than taking two separate turns in all scenarios. Young Imperial was terrible like why ever.
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Apr 28, 2024 08:42
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:pit traps. TheMightyBoops posted:It was already mentioned, but I can’t stress enough how much I hate Phantasy Star 2’s dungeons. c'mon how can you hate this  (yes, those numbered spots are all pits that you have to fall into to proceed deeper into the dungeon; yes, it is bad)
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Apr 28, 2024 08:47
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jrpg puzzle dungeons are great, but a lot of games just phone them in and make them tedious. lufia 2 wouldn't be nearly as good if not for the 50/50 mix of jrpg and slamming a puzzle right into your face
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Apr 28, 2024 08:51
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There should be more jrpg maze dungeons and puzzles. Getting about the average sewer should ideally be about as involved as navigating the Raccoon Police Station.
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Apr 28, 2024 08:55
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McTimmy posted:Young Imperial was terrible like why ever. Its fun how grueling a grind against resources those fights are and how bad some of your tools turn out to be like that combo and Ivy, in general, as a character
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Apr 28, 2024 08:57
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Barudak posted:Also if you were thinking well, Barudak its obvious if a character comes with a certain element equipped thats their best not always and sometimes it means absolutely nothing like with Francesca Francesca's affinity is equal for everything except Dark, so you can at least assume their default rune isn't their weakest. In fact, if a character has a best element, and can use magic runes at the point you recruit them, they will have it equipped by default (or at least, that's the case for all the mages I've recruited up to this point*). Mellore is the only character who joins at a low enough level to not come with a magic rune attached, and it should be pretty obvious what her best element is. *Hildi and Seign don't have their affinities listed on the wiki, so I don't know if they're actually better with water magic or not, but it stands to reason, given the broader pattern. Barudak posted:Its fun how grueling a grind against resources those fights are and how bad some of your tools turn out to be like that combo and Ivy, in general, as a character The secret is that Yaelu's blind skill affects everything except the chimera, and the chimera is a pretty simple pattern boss where you may as well defend/dodge the whole time when you're not healing or using Sylvie. Also I gave Pohl the Growth Ring before jumping over so the gang had an extra level or two. I definitely had to pop some MP restoration between the research lab and the boss fights, but it wasn't that bad. Then again, I don't know what difficulty you were playing on, it's probably a lot worse on Hard.
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Apr 28, 2024 09:08
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:pit traps. From the post-game of Etrian Odyssey 1:  There are 297 of them. Every single one of those are invisible. 
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Apr 28, 2024 09:23
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EclecticTastes posted:The secret is that Yaelu's blind skill affects everything except the chimera, and the chimera is a pretty simple pattern boss where you may as well defend/dodge the whole time when you're not healing or using Sylvie. Also I gave Pohl the Growth Ring before jumping over so the gang had an extra level or two. I definitely had to pop some MP restoration between the research lab and the boss fights, but it wasn't that bad. Then again, I don't know what difficulty you were playing on, it's probably a lot worse on Hard. Im not sure if secret so much as "the clearly intended thing to do", but yes. No my issue is more its effectively 4 back to back fights of the same thing where by far the most dangerous one is the first one because its magic stuns and the others dont. Its just the whole thing is too repetitive, like I said after the third fight where the character goes "they defeated a nearly complete one!" the very next thing was fighting a complete one instead of narratively saving that for later I started laughing in a bad way. Also they know that throwing you into this fight gauntlet is kind of nasty because the first turn of each encounter the boss wastes it so you can heal/setup. Edit: I hate the hammer generic skill so much that the measure of good hammer characters to me is not having it. Barudak fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 09:35
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Araxxor posted:From the post-game of Etrian Odyssey 1: To make things even more fun, the original DS release of the game didn't actually support placing enough icons on the map to mark them all.
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Apr 28, 2024 09:44
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I got somewhat annoyed by post-game floor Hall of Darkness 2 in Etrian Odyssey IV, but then someone pointed out to me that you need to use the rooms with (orange) damaging tiles as a mirror/reference for the ones with (yellow) pitfalls  GameFAQs map for said floor. It's very obvious when you see the map in full. You enter the floor at the top-left stairs and they basically give you a tutorial (and I didn't notice). 
Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 09:56
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I just discovered that when you send out dispatch teams in Eiyuden, if you go to the location mentioned in the request, you'll actually find them there. That's a nice touch.
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Apr 28, 2024 10:05
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Araxxor posted:From the post-game of Etrian Odyssey 1: For EO1 and the first PersonaQ game, it was like oh I like drawing these maps. Then got to the warp and pitfalls maps and it’s like oh no I hate these even more now, cause now I’m gonna have to fall thru everyone and see every dead end warp to complete the map
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Apr 28, 2024 11:41
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Persona 3 Reload The game is in a bizarro universe where blowing your time and money on fast food and arcade games improve your social acumen. ' You have to be a complete idiot and doormat to further some social links. I gave this guy 400 bucks sight unseen because a guide said so. Two months in and the plot hasn't started, nor have I bonded with any party members. It's obvious the developer regretted not having proper s-links for your male friends but gave the loving Moon kid the time of day. You'd only bother with a part-time job for the 50,000 yen trophy, since the payout doesn't scale with the rising cost of equipment. The structure of the game is definitely strange compared to the sequels, in that you traverse the dungeon only for cash and experience. All the critical plot stuff happens outside the thing. It's refreshing that there isn't an obnoxious cartoon mascot like Teddie or Morgana around.
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Apr 28, 2024 12:53
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All the "Tales of..." talk earlier made me realize I have Tales of Hearts R for Vita and have literally never played it. I should fix that.
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Apr 28, 2024 13:56
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Is it just my imagination or do the battles in Hundred Heroes seem way more visually dynamic if you just pick autobattle? I'm still very early in and felt like individually making every decision at this point felt needlessly sluggish considering I have six party member and monsters are very weak. It felt like the camera was going wild.
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Apr 28, 2024 15:28
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Redezga posted:Is it just my imagination or do the battles in Hundred Heroes seem way more visually dynamic if you just pick autobattle? I'm still very early in and felt like individually making every decision at this point felt needlessly sluggish considering I have six party member and monsters are very weak. It felt like the camera was going wild. The camera system goes wild and on a fairly regular occasion will hide how much damage you took from an enemy attack because party members will be off screen. If there is a treasure chest in the battle using auto will never target it. Also the game seems to ignore all enemy targeting rules you give it and always goes from right to left in two sweeps. This is usually fine except when there are casters about in which case auto will mess you up fierce
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Apr 28, 2024 16:08
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The only time I really get annoyed in rpg dungeons is when they telegraph the "wrong" way to go but you feel obligated to go that way anyway to get the obvious dead end loot
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Apr 28, 2024 16:10
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Well, it's kind of nice when they show you the right way so you can easily avoid it. The weird part is when they're designed as if you're actually trying to reach the end which can muddle things significantly.
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Apr 28, 2024 16:15
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dead end loot rules and encourages exploration
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Apr 28, 2024 16:18
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