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Poking around the GOT thread indicates GURM also suffers this affliction. You know, JK Rowling is one of very few fantasy authors I can think of that actually completed her series and in a somewhat timely fashion. There was the four years between GOT and POA but she didn't necessarily stop writing completely for the sake of going to cons. Sanderson is also prolific as gently caress. I wonder what it is. Cons are fun but writing is also fun. Writing down the next installment of something is an adventure. Rothfuss is such a hack for ignoring his craft like this.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:53
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SpacePig posted:I may have misspoke. I don't really read much fantasy, and what really caught me up in this one is the system of magics and such. They're all inter-related, based on the same basic principles, and pretty well described and specified within the story. I would seriously read nothing but Kvothe learning and applying different bindings and such and using them in clever ways. The second he leaves the university is pretty much the exact second it starts going irrecoverably downhill for me. I don't care how quick-witted or poor he is. I just wanna have him do clever poo poo with his bindings and names. You might enjoy the magic system in Garth Nix's Abhorsen series. The system is based off "Charter marks" which are basically ancient runes. Half the plot of the series is that the continent has been split in half, one of which is a super mundane world which is basically 1920s England called Ancelstierre. The magical half is called The Old Kingdom, where necromancers have free reign and use their magic without fear. Huge chunks of the books consist of the heroines studying Charter magic and trying to fix the sources of magic. The second protagonist, Lirael, goes into a lot of Charter magic theory and coming up with mindbending ways to break the rules or otherwise bend Charter magic away from its regular uses, such as using Charter magic in the world of Ancelstierre. The first book is called Sabriel and it's a self contained adventure so you're not committing to the whole series by reading it. If you like it then please pick it up because the Abhorsen books deserve more credit and love.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:33
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SpacePig posted:This wins for now. Not only by merit of being the only book immediately available on my library's e-book system, but also because of this: He recounts the story here and it's quite funny: https://youtu.be/ylKRYe0ZWHo
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Oct 23, 2015 20:01
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jivjov posted:That comparison once again is implying that every author is to be held to exactly the same standard of work. Some people write faster or slower and others. Books are of varying quality. This horseshit notion that Rothfuss cannot write at his own pace is infuriating. He has made no explicit promise to any release that that he's missed. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish by wagging your finger at people who complain. There may or may not be good reasons for the delays in Rothfuss's publishing schedule but people are going to get frustrated after several years of silence. Without behind the scenes knowledge an audience can only work with the information publicly released. If bad PR is such a problem for him than he needs to be upfront about what he's doing and why. I'm thinking back to the Harry Potter days, honestly. The nice thing about JK's blog is that we got a window into her life and updates on her progress were sporadic but existed. That won her a lot of forgiveness from fans as I recall, because we knew she was doing her best. In contrast, Rothfuss apparently publishes AMAs where he bitches about people who want a progress update and then talks endlessly about Fallout 4, seemingly without making the connection between the two concepts. What I'm saying is that this kind of behavior is what happens when you leave your audience in the dark. It is not childish or whining to want an ETA, especially when a lot of money and attention has been given to the guy. He wouldn't be able to run a charity of marathon Fallout 4 playing if it wasn't for the fame and recognition given to him by the fantasy-reading audience. Rothfuss owes a lot to his fans and fantasy readers in general. People want to buy this book. They want to pay Rothfuss money for the chance to read his words. They want to find out what happens next. There is a difference between authors reacting to entitled fans and authors purposefully withholding information from fans for unknown reasons. Nature abhors a vacuum. If Rothfuss doesn't fill this one, others will, and it's never pretty.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:46
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Earwicker posted:in what sense? In the sense that he wouldn't be where he is now without their support and money. I'm not saying he owes people in the sense that he should be producing content. I'm saying he owes people in the sense that he shouldn't act like an ungrateful little poo poo by being a complete jerk to his fans, especially when he's whinging about how MY FANS DON'T CARE ABOUT ALL THE CHARITIES I'M RUNNING UGH HOW DARE. It is foolish and unreasonable of Rothfuss to be such a dick. He hasn't earned dickishness, he hasn't earned any grace, and frankly he hasn't earned any leeway. I don't blame Rothfuss for not adhering to his original deadlines, it would be pretty unreasonable for that to happen. I blame Rothfuss for being a total cock about it. e: I think the crux of the matter is that Rothfuss acts like an egotistical rear end without much to back it up. Like, I can't fault GRRM for acting like a dick because the dude has already poured out a lot of content and he is involved with the show, which is a lot of work regardless of capacity. GRRM has earned some dickishness imo. But Rothfuss has put out two mediocre novels and a short story and now he plays Fallout 4 for a living. Rothfuss is not Markiplier or PewDiePie. Maybe he wants to be, and that's okay. But unless he wants to break contract, he needs to give us something. Like, apparently he actually tried to stream WRITING THE BOOK LIVE BEFORE SWITCHING TO FALLOUT 4 BECAUSE "writing is hard." In what universe would that not be hilarious? ee: ^^^^ basically, yeah. Dude is unprofessional and whiny as hell. I'm not emotionally involved in his drama, so all of this is hilarious to me, but wow. He acts like a teenager with a livejournal. HIJK fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 18:20
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e: quote is not edit!
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Dec 14, 2015 18:43
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I remember being a teenager and trying to read the first book in the Wheel of Time series. I had just come off the Lord of the Rings and loved it, so I was excited for a new fantasy series. I put it down five chapters later frothing at the mouth at how similar it was to Tolkien, especially the Silmarillion. Still can't look at that goddamn thing without feeling pissed off.
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Dec 16, 2015 17:47
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Torrannor posted:Being inspired by possibly the greatest work of fantasy literature ever, how dare Robert Jordan! lol, I didn't say it made sense. It just means I'm not going to read the series, probably ever, and that's okay.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:33
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jivjov posted:Here; I'll show you where you demonstrated your ignorance: Please stop. This has gone from funny to embarrassing.
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Jan 19, 2016 01:25
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jivjov posted:Yeah...Groovelord is just being an rear end for no reason... Actually I was talking about you.
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Jan 19, 2016 01:34
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jivjov posted:You still don't know a drat thing about being a professional author. Well, neither do you.
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Jan 19, 2016 23:38
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jivjov posted:Yes. It doesn't qualify you to scold other people, who are writers, for being seriously unimpressed with Rothfuss's work ethic. Chill. Chiiiiill.
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Jan 20, 2016 00:00
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jivjov posted:Yes, but I have no reason to believe that Rothfuss is lying about working on the book. If he truly wasn't working on it at all, wouldn't his publisher have announced a cancellation or something? Oh my sweet summer child. A cancellation won't be announced until the money dries up definitely. If there really are adaptations of the Kvothe books in the works then that means the publisher will get some kind of cut which means they have plenty of money coming in on that property for now. When it looks like the adaptations don't pan out then they'll set the screws to Rothfuss. I think it's also worth noting that book publishing doesn't have the urgency to it that it once did. If this was when Harry Potter was big then Rothfuss would have an entire publishing company kicking his door in to get the books written but with the literate population not reading as much as we used to then there's just no real urgency anymore. Rothfuss is a hack though.
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Jan 20, 2016 20:23
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Benson Cunningham posted:I don't know how he has gathered the acclaim he has. I find his books readable, but uninspired. Except for the newer wax and wayne stuff- I can't even read that. Simply being able to put out books in a timely fashion and with adequate skill is enough to gather a big following, especially since this very thread proves that talent = jackshit without the application of discipline. Publishing regularly makes Sanderson head and shoulders above other writers in his field.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:11
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Earwicker posted:Not really. Being timely helps to a degree, but I really don't see that the skill of an author at actual writing has a particularly strong relationship with their ability to acquire a big following. It depends on the genre of course but generally the image and social signifiers of a book or its characters (or certain events) are more important than how good the actual writing is, when it comes to building a fanbase. Reinforced by marketing. And there's also the question of the author's own "mediagenic"-ness and their willingness to interact regularly with fans and be promotional. Oh, haha. No, what I meant was "adequate" as in "can string together a coherent sentence." Sanderson isn't very talented at all, but he doesn't try to punch above his weight class. And he's coherent. A lot of fantasy writers just have no idea what they're doing or talking about and they spit out books that make no gd sense at all. Sanderson markets and his plots are reasonably lucid which gets him a fanbase.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:26
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Earwicker posted:the main thing I really don't get about the whole Rothfuss thing is why anyone in their right mind would want to watch him (or any other fantasy author) play videogames in the first place. you just don't get how hard it is to be a published writer man
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Jan 20, 2016 23:54
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Flattened Spoon posted:And here I thought with all of these new posts in the Patrick Rothfuss thread there was an update for when book three was coming out. Your first mistake.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:24
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Earwicker posted:I don't really understand the appeal of that kind of thing. As I've said before I don't think Rothfuss is a particularly good writer but I did find his books enjoyable (well the first one anyway) and he's a decently entertaining fantasy writer. If you hate his writing, that's certainly understandable, but if so I can't understand why you'd want to spend so much time going through it line by line talking about how bad this or that piece of writing is. Wouldn't you rather spend the time reading an author you actually enjoy? Personally I like taking Rothfuss and other writers apart at their prose because it's a teaching experience. You learn a lot more from bad writing then you do from good writing. Enjoyment has little to do with it; learning your craft is everything when you want to improve. Rothfuss gives lots of object lessons in what NOT to do to writers.
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Jan 26, 2016 21:02
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Earwicker posted:I couldn't disagree more. If you spend all your time reading crap genre fiction - even if you are conscious that it's bad - then that's what is going to be influencing you the most. I can't think of any actual good writers who indicated in any way that they got where they are by spending a bunch of time studying some garbage fantasy series. People learn good writing from good writers, not by taking apart reams of bad writing and doing the opposite. But I don't read just crap fiction. I also read a lot of genuine literature. It's like when you're assigned a math problem and have to find the mistake and then do the equation right. Finding the mistakes and then contrasting it with the correct equation is illuminating. If you don't understand the point of sporking in general though then I imagine you didn't like MST3K and don't watch bad movies for entertainment with friends. But it all takes all sorts in this world.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:51
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Earwicker posted:You are right, I dislike MST3k because I would always rather watch a good movie than watch a bad movie with people talking over it, I find that irritating both on the show and in real life. So yes maybe it's just a personality type thing. You're probably saving yourself a lot of money in blood pressure medication in the future so having good taste isn't all bad. 
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Jan 26, 2016 23:58
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The Gardenator posted:Thanks, whoever recommended the Sabriel series of books earlier in the thread. Any other recommendations? You are welcome! If you want more 3-dimensional female leads then I recommend The Rook by Daniel O'Malley. Very witty and gory modern story set around an organization that is basically Fantasy MI6. I read it in two days. 10/10, would recommend.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:53
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I never thought I'd see the day a thread would rival the GOT thread for terribleness. The Book Barn is usually so peaceful.
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Feb 2, 2016 19:56
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I vote we turn this into the Legitmately Good Fantasy and Sci-Fi Books thread. Elements needed for consideration - Three dimensional female characters A+, minimum amount of misogyny on part of the author. (Note: misogyny that is part of the plot or a characterization moment gets a pass from this rule.) - No Nice Guy authors - Decent prose, lucid plots - Completed series, standalone novel, or consistent release dates. We could make it a book club or something.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:24
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This is great, you guys have given me so much new reading material! I keep seeing Lies of Locke Lamora spoken of highly so I'm going to tackle that soon. I'll hammer the Sabriel series by Garth Nix again in case anyone hasn't read it yet. The first book is a standalone and a very easy read so you're not committed to the whole series if you read it and don't like it. I mentioned The Rook by Daniel O'Malley, which is great creepy funny supernatural MI6 fun. It has a sequel named Stiletto coming out June 14th! I'm excited enough to preorder! Benson Cunningham, I'm putting Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast at the top of my list, my father read your list over my shoulder, pointed at the it and said "Oh my god. That book is wild. It's about the inhabitants of a castle called Gormenghast and it is wildest weirdest thing you will ever read." So based on that it sounds delightfully bizarre, I'm getting on that this week. Keep the recommendations coming, talk about the books you love! I love it all! HIJK fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 01:53
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BananaNutkins posted:The fake Muslim culture with the ceramic dildo magic rites [wish I was joking], along with wheel-spinning for three books with new PoVs. Holy poo poo what the gently caress is wrong with fantasy authors
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Feb 3, 2016 02:03
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Earwicker posted:Probably the best scifi book I have ever read is The Memoirs of a Survivor by Doris Lessing. It's definitely one of the most realistic "post-apocalytic" books there is, IMO. It's a standalone novel and it certainly meets all of the qualifications for "actually good scifi/fantasy" that described above. "Three dimensional female characters" is the only requirement, so it sounds like your recommendation totally fits. Introspective pieces are totally cool and good. I guess I should put in a caveat if people are gonna take these rules seriously, it's okay if the plot features a male protagonist or whatever, it's just that if there are female characters then I don't want them to be set dressing or put on a pedestal or otherwise forced to be a reflection of the author's weird views on women. HELLO LADIES pointed out that even lady authors like Anne McCaffery had some gross views on women that crept into her writing. Dragonriders of Pern would have a very hard time making the cut, I wouldn't recommend it to people without some talk about how it was the 1970s man and McCaffery was a gd idiot about a lot of things. And MZB can gtfo, I'm just glad I never read her books.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:12
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Doesn't Octavia Butler also have tons of rapey BDSM stuff in her books? I'm not judging, that's just what I heard. Sounds like something I'd like to miss...
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Feb 3, 2016 02:41
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Jimbot posted:Unfortunately, when you end up replacing men with women in those lead roles in these power fantasy settings, people call her a Mary Sue. Just look at the recent Star Wars film. A hyper-competent lady protagonist going through a journey and on an adventure, making friends and getting her own starship is apparently the worst thing in the history of the world of films, especially for Star Wars which belongs only to men, for some people. It all boils down to what kind of self indulgent power fantasy you want to consume. Rey is a Mary Sue; so is James Bond. They're both fairly cool (if boring) and they both make shitloads of money. Just because something is criticized doesn't mean it won't be hugely popular or that it doesn't deserve to be hugely popular. What I'm saying, as a woman, is that power fantasies are okay and we shouldn't try to make them not exist, it's just that we should encourage all forms of intelligently made stuff. Rothfuss's power fantasies are hilarious but he still has a right to publish them so long as we have the right to criticize them. This applies to all creators and all things. Being an artist is the most difficult thing if you don't thrive on conflict or can't accept constructive criticism. Female authors and characters get more of this backlash but it's still needed IMO because otherwise how do we improve as artists? IDK, this isn't targeted at your post specifically.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:02
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Noam Chomsky posted:You are overstating the importance of teenage boys and loud, sexist, neckbeards with no jobs or lives. This is true. Anita Blake novels, badly written as they are, are literally about a werevampire heroine who has a harem of male sex slaves at her beck and call. These novels sell like gangbusters to a female audience. I bet there are hundreds like them out there.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:04
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Noam Chomsky posted:I get what you're trying to say but Rey isn't really a mary sue. She is competent but not moreso than any of the other new leads and nothing she does is implausible. The mary sue meme was just started by loud neckbeards and teenage boys angry that the new Jedi protagonist wasn't a boy who grew up on a moisture farm. Bond isn't really a mary sue either, just hypercompetent like most progatonists. Mary Sue is a very slippery slidey term but I don't really want to discuss it here, this thread has enough problems as it is. Hit me up on PM if you're open to talking about it more, I'd welcome the discussion.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:08
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Noam Chomsky posted:There are quite a few similar novels of varying degrees in quality. You just rendered the existence of English as an area of study completely lmao. People make their careers out of explaining why they don't like things, which is also hilarious now that I'm thinking about it. I should probably raid those female dominated areas of nerd lit for book recommendations. My to-read pile just got a shitload bigger.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:21
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The Slithery D posted:
NO, SHUT UP, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS HERE.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:29
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Patrick Rothfuss: All Of You Shut Up
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Feb 4, 2016 20:27
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I tried to read the first Mistborn book and my eyes glazed over. Check it out from the library before purchasing,
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Feb 5, 2016 21:26
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Loving it Bravest, please keep it up!
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Feb 16, 2016 01:54
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jivjov posted:It has aspects of many things all at once. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:08
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Oxxidation posted:From my personal if limited experience, editors of even smaller-scale magazines make the stuff Lamps is doing here look like a mother's gentle kisses. There's are practical concerns on the production side of this - eventually a writer has to go "gently caress it, good enough" and punt a piece out into the world, warts and all - but you'd be hard-pressed to find any writing that couldn't be reamed to some degree on its first several drafts. Though hopefully katanas wouldn't be involved. If editing is that brutal than why is Lamps having to do the job Rothfuss's editor should have done?
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Feb 19, 2016 01:51
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Rothfuss constantly describing character movements as a way to bridge dialogue is a bad habit of mine as well. It's an easy trap to fall into because it puts words on the page and sometimes that's all you want.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:57
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A nitpicky obsession with a magic system's rules and regs seem to be the downfall of many fantasy books.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:43
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It's been said before but man, Rothfuss just should have left this behind as his practice novel from his college days and moved on to something totally new. Half of these problems are probably because he tried to salvage years-old prose and couldn't or wouldn't cut the worst of it because he didn't want to rewrite that much.
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Feb 27, 2016 22:47
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