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Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
Make sure you throw in some Film Crew's The Unearthly, MST3k's The Starfighters, and Trinity and Beyond!


Also Godzilla, that's Cold War nuclear fiction, right?

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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NosmoKing posted:

I don't think the youth of today get the idea that we lived in a time where it was no bullshit that in 60 minutes, every city you've ever read about in the US, Europe, East Asia, and the USSR could have been green glass and char. They may have decided to blow the poo poo out of a few parts of other continents, because, gently caress YOU, we can.

We still do live in those times. We're just less inclined to try.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
I work in a refurbished fallout shelter. It looks like a normal office, but the opposite side of my work area is stacked to the ceiling with burn bins, first aid kits, water drums, and hazmat suits.


Senor Science posted:

This is probably one of my favorite defection incidents during the Cold War:

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1083518

The idea of a pilot abandoning everything he knew from his family to his own country, defecting in a Mig-25 and landing at a civilian airport is pure :black101:


This is funny. "Intelligence windfall" is a serious understatement. We drat near copied the MiG-25 to finish the F-15. The MiG-25 was also the F-22 of its time. It was advertised as a major leap ahead in fighter technology (the first of the Third generation, the F-22 is 5th for comparison) and had most of SAC and TAC making GBS threads their collective pants. Till we picked that one up. We then realized the engines had to be scrapped and changed every time the plane went supersonic, and the airframe was motherfucking STEEL. It could barely fly, and was nothing but propaganda. The old boys got a good laugh, invented the F-15, and never looked back.


If anyone is interested in a good Cold War Commie Hunt manual, J. Edgar Hoovers classic 'A Study of Communism' is a fantastic read. Directions on how to report Communist plots, how to recognize subversive movements in your neighborhood, the whole 9 yards. I'm too lazy, but it's almost worth a 'Let's Read' thread. gently caress it, I'll do one after the holidays, this poo poo is too good.

http://www.amazon.com/study-communism-J-Edgar-Hoover/dp/B0007HSLSY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1292529168&sr=8-2


J. Edgar's Foreward- May 25, 1962 posted:

Today's headlines remind us that there has been no basic change in Communist Imperialism. The danger which wold communism presents to free nations is not abated. If anything, it has increased. We will not be able to preserve and develop adequately our heritage of freedom without continually adding to our knowledge of the nature of communism and its totalitarian objectives.

What is communism? What gives communism its dynamic character? Why have been the contributions of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev to the development of the world Communist movement? How does communism come to power? How has the Communist empire expanded? What are the attractions of communism? Why do people become disillusioned with communism? Why is our free society inherently superior to communism? The answers to these any many other questions are included in this book. It is hoped that this information will not only inform the reader about communism, but also to develop within him a deeper awareness of the superiority of our hertitage of freedom over communism.

Propagandalf fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 16, 2010

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
The real mindfuck isn't seeing CIS hardware on US runways anymore. The real mindfuck is seeing former CIS hardware with deactivated weaponry, in civilian colors. A poo poo ton of the cargo being moved into Afghanistan is coming in on contracted Eastern European carriers pushing AN-124s and IL-76s with tail turrets, rocket pod mounts, and chin turrets still installed (but painted over).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EC-121_shootdown_incident

http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/c130_shootdown.shtml
http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-1910/APP34.PDF

http://www.rb-29.net/html/77ColdWarStory/00.25cwscvr.htm

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Pedants gonna ... ped?

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Groda posted:

:words:


This is the smartest thing I've read in this forum this week. And probably month.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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B4Ctom1 posted:

From Wikipedia

300 meter kill radius? A bear has a loving wingspan of 50 meters. So you are supposed to aim this thing to where the bombers are supposed to be when it detonates? A loving bear moves at 250 meters per second. If you miss the formation by 4 seconds they would be 1000 meters away from your poor shot.

Either they are underestimating the kill radius, or you had to be very lucky with this thing. There is no way that if you were 2000 meters away from this detonation in a Bear that you could just fly along without problem. Firing this thing into a group of bombers would probably get the job done.

I can't understand why they wouldn't have continued with this one instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-26_Falcon

Even though the lethal blast radius isn't impressive, the atmospheric disruption from a large explosion will utterly gently caress a formation long enough for fighters or SAMS to pick them off without worrying about countermeasures. Or the radiation/EMP/flash blindness would finish the job.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

B4Ctom1 posted:



This seems like a very awesome capability. I can't imagine why we would not have this simple capability on our own aircraft. I would suspect that the FLIR company has probably developed the technology to passive auto scan and display direction for suspected targets in the sky. Usually if you can imagine it, and it is within the realm of technology, then it has probably been done already.

We do have it.

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/AN-AAS-42-Infra-Red-Search-and-Track-System-IRSTS-United-States.html



Another Russian party to which we showed up a minute late and a ruble short:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/jhmcs.htm

Ivan fielded this in what, the late 80s? We got it in 2003. :eng99:

Propagandalf fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Feb 16, 2011

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

rossmum posted:

I think a lot of the problem is you guys spend so loving much on all these flashy toys....

Didn't :airquote:You Guys:airquote: just sign an $8bn upgrade contract with Us Guys for MORE P-3s, F-18s and a couple of warships? :j:

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Helter Skelter posted:

Know what owns? B1-B Lancers, that's what.



I've got a few more of it refueling if anyone's interested.

Now for the shots they don't want you to see..



I got stuck second in line for takeoff behind one of these bastards. Feeling your internal organs jiggle is a very unusual experience.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Plinkey posted:

I think it's mostly used for 'force projection' now. Basically do a low pass loud as poo poo to say that you're there to the bad guys.


Show Of Force. :eng101:

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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NosmoKing posted:

What about the drat NOISE of an approaching helicopter?

Them dang things is loud.

Special Forces insertion helos use special rotorblades. The engines and displaced vegetation are often louder than the rotors.


Also, "Pakistan" and "Modern Air Defenses" have no business in the same sentence.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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daskrolator posted:

“Now no helicopter will be able to escape after entering into Pakistani territory,” the official [Pakistani] sources said.

http://arabnews.com/world/article154005.ece


*deploys SA-7s*

*Wonders why they can't hit anything*.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Flanker posted:

I wouldn't consider the F35 risky since most of western Europe, the US and Australia are adopting the same platform.

The F35 isn't perfect, or a perfect answer to every tactical aviation concern Canada has this week or last week. It's the best shot at covering all the bases for the next 20+ years before it's replaced, since we have no idea what those are going to be.

Most of the resistance against the F35 is largely political. The Liberals bought into the program and the Conservatives simply carried on with the contract, they didn't ask for more fighters or change anything to my knowledge.

I don't know if the Gripen, Typhoon or Rafale are good choices, or if they even count as Gen 5 fighters.

I get a laugh when people ponder aloud why we we aren't simply building our own fighters. If we're going to do that, we should have started 20 years ago. Or start on the F35's replacement now.

edited for typos


Eurofighter and Rafale are considered Gen 4.5, mostly because of their lack of significant architectural radar reduction measures. In terms of software and flight performance they'd otherwise be considered Gen 5. They also have that whole 'combat tested' thing thanks to Libya, while the F-22 was having it's seat padding swapped for causing a space-time inconsistency in the tertiary gravitron defluxipators.

Also, fingers crossed, the F-35 is modular enough that most of it's mission-specific shortcomings are fixable with bolt-ons. Or we'll all just buy Eurofighters and skip any sort of air superiority notions for the F-35.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Flikken posted:

I thought those got removed at OTS?

Nah, they just get a firmware update to auto-respond to jokes made by 0-6s and up.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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SIGSEGV posted:


Are there any aircraft that are actively being developped by the USoA other than super deathmobiles like a replacement refueler, transport, transport viable for carriers, dedicated CAS? I know approximately fuckall about combat aircraft and the thing that bought me to read about them was the sheer hilarity of the F22 segfaulting like a first year student's turdy program over the internationnal date line.

The KC-X program has been back and forth but was approved in February. The USAF's Pave Hawk replacement CSAR-X is still canceled last I heard. There's also some back and forth over a C-130 replacement but the Europeans are the only ones with viable alternatives and no one wants to buy non-American.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

iyaayas01 posted:

The slightly longer short version is that NATO forces viewed armor (and all the other arms...aviation, artillery, etc.) as support for the infantry, while Warsaw Pact forces were reversed, with the infantry (and aviation, artillery, etc.) providing support for armor. Warsaw Pact forces had a real hard on for armor, as evidenced by their development of tanks through the years of the Cold War, as opposed to the U.S.'s incremental development stagnation of the Patton design (Chieftain and Leopard designs notwithstanding in the case of the U.S.'s NATO allies).

While the Warsaw Pact developed ATGMs (they had the first combat use of such missiles in the Yom Kippur War through proxy use with Egypt's forces), the US/NATO were most concerned with anti-armor developments, as evidenced by the TOW missile, Hellfire missile, and development of the anti-armor helicopter (Cobra and Apache are the best examples of this). The Warsaw Pact developed ATGMs as part of their effort to aid armor, while the US/NATO forces developed anti-armor weapons in order to turn back the tide of Warsaw Pact armor.



This is also where the old Soviet air defense strategies came into play. SA-6/8/11/13/15/19 and manpads weren't intended primarily for counter-interceptor use, they were for keeping up with and protecting the armor column from helicopters and A-10s. They've since expanded to counter PGMs, which were in turn our answer to the Soviets fuckoff huge range fixed SAMs.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

BadgerMan45 posted:



The most annoying sound to me is an F-16 taking off with full afterburners, gently caress those guys.

You've never heard a B-1, have you?

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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VikingSkull posted:

I thought I knew a bit about C-5's due to living so close to a base of them

I'm sorry.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Alaan posted:

I think he was saying thats more how the higher ups are viewing it than anything else.

Also the taxpaying public.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Armyman25 posted:

Israel is a very rich modern nation. Why the US gives them a dime of aid is beyond me since all it seems to do is piss off the rest of the middle east.

You think we even care what the rest of the middle east thinks? We've locked down the only opinions worth considering. Saudi Arabia is fat and happy, the Qataris and Bahrainis are more scared of Iran than Israel. Turkey has European and American trade deals to worry about losing, in addition to all the poo poo we've sold them. No one gives a poo poo about Syria's opinion until they stop buying Russian and Chinese arms.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Scratch Monkey posted:

His books took a decidedly sharp turn to the right over time. The best example of this of the latter books of his that I read were the bad guys in Rainbow Six: evil enviro-hippies. Seriously. They wanted to infect everyone at the olympics with a super bug (that they had a vaccine against) to quickly depopulate the planet so they could live in natural glory. Because the loved trees more than crippled children, one of whom they execute on live TV early on in the story.

That book ruined the water misters at the zoo. I can't walk through one without a serious :gonk:.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

Frozen Horse posted:

Well, that's completely reasonable. After all, who would ever be violently manoeuvring while in a situation that also calls for anti-missile flares?

It happens when they DON'T maneuver. A lot of the tail damage you see if from Shows of Force/Shows of Presence, where they buzz the bad guys and drop flares to gently caress with them. It's normally a fantastic way of dealing with look down targeting since as the B-1 is supposed to go in low. The flares get between the exhaust plume and missile, making flare rejection less effective since it blocks out the weaker signature.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
In the summer in clear weather, you don't get below freezing point till about 10k feet. So if they cruise at 7k-8K, it'll get cold enough. 9K is where you need an oxygen mask for extended periods of time. Go over 10k ft without a mask and you'll pass out in 3-5 minutes.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
You acclimatize slowly when you hike and it's not a big deal. You might feel more tired than you should and have trouble focusing on distant objects, but that's about it. In a plane you go from normal pressure and oxygen content to seriously depleted oxygen content in minutes.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
9K usually won't kill you, but after 10-15 minutes you'll start feeling like poo poo. Red/black vision, spotty vision, tunnel vision, slow focusing, diminished reaction time, compromised manual dexterity, numbness in the fingers. It's a lot like being drunk. You really don't want that poo poo at 500mph.

5 minutes at 10k MSL freespace in average weather conditions is about the 'oh poo poo brain damage' point, but it varies based on air pressure and terrain. When you're up on a mountain, you're at lower atmospheric pressure than sea level, but higher atmospheric pressure (thus more concentrated oxygen) than at equivalent altitude in freespace. Air has to push on things that resist to have pressure, when those things are higher in altitude, air pressure goes up correspondingly. Think of it as atmospheric surface tension. This is why you can get people climbing Everest without oxygen or by taking supplemental oxygen every few minutes instead of being permanently hooked up to a tank like fighter pilots.

If you hike up a mountain over the course of a few hours, your body adapts to the pressure and oxygen levels and you won't get life threatening symptoms till even higher. The physical activity helps you adapt over time, since you're using oxygen at a higher rate your body reacts faster to changes. Andeans chew coca leaves to fight off altitude sickness, since it's a mild stimulant it counters a lot of the sluggishness and increases your heart rate- delivering less oxygen but more often, without physical exertion to increase oxygen use rate.

Propagandalf fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 21, 2011

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
EW gear.


Oh wait.


Ejection pod. The crew crawls back, and it poops out the back of the plane.

Also, vodka tank.


And the scale is way off. Su-34s are actually the size of B-1s, the pod contains a Su-17 with folding wings.

Propagandalf fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jan 24, 2012

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

Slo-Tek posted:

Any time.



Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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mlmp08 posted:

Have some pictures in celebration of Iran's air defense exercises that were just announced.






One of these things is not like the other...

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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grover posted:

A lesser-known recon bird, the U-28:



Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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FEMA summer camp posted:


On topic: A giraffe ate some leaves out of my hand once and it was tickly as hell.


A giraffe licked my head at the Knoxville Zoo once. gently caress giraffes.


Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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FrozenVent posted:

It's the ELINT equivalent of tactilol.

ELINTLOL.

Considering modern sensors can do the same thing with 2 antennas, yes. It actually is.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Armyman25 posted:

I wasn't trying to be "hurr, USAF" But the Air Forces' projects are always several orders of magnitude more impressive than the Army's.


Fast acquisitions like A-12 and P-51 had the advantage of filling a massive gaping hole in military capability, which is much easier to back than a new tanker than doesn't do anything better than the old one except 'be new'.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

Groda posted:

"Be new" is a pretty nice feature when it comes to maintenance and spare parts.

Maintenance is a misnomer. Every time something breaks, you have to create a maintenance procedure to fix it- which you then have to run every single time twice a day into perpetuity because the Air Force is about as insane for preventable maintenance as it is for checklists.

Airmen's time is free. It's deceptive to claim excess maintenance on a plane that needs 8 hours of maintenance for every hour in the air when you aren't paying your labor by the hour, and what you do pay them comes from a different money pool. Doubly so when "maintenance" is a lot of crawling around with flashlights looking for leaks and loose fittings and ticking boxes on checklists. A C-135 variant can get hundreds of hours of costly "maintenance" at no more actual cost than $20 for 4 quarts of oil.

Claiming a new plane will be lower maintenance is just silly. Low Maintenance simply means not enough stuff has yet gone wrong to bloat the size of the daily/weekly/monthly/pre-/post- flight inspection criteria- which themselves become the reason justifying newer planes advertising lower maintenance. "Be new" isn't a much of a selling point when it actually means "not everything that can go wrong has gone wrong", as it has with the tanker fleet.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Raw_Beef posted:


Posts by Grover and Iayaas give us some hope there are competent people involved in defense yet.

The only incompetent people involved in defense are civilians. The military will do what it has to with the resources it's given, but that's hard to do when your day to day resources are based on some knucklehead's poll rating.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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mlmp08 posted:

Got buzzed by a B1B doing nearly 600 knots from a few hundred feet overhead a couple times today. It is felt as much as heard.

I was once on a taxiway second in line for takeoff behind a B-1. We were maybe 300 feet away from full afterburners. Deafening silence takes on a whole new meaning in that situation, especially when you can feel your internal organs jiggling.

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy
The Doolittle raiders cracked the cognac today.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/final-toast-wwii-doolittle-raiders-peace

Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

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Dirk Diggler posted:

Is that picture from a few years ago? There's five goblets face-up and I believe there's only four Raiders left, with one being too sick to travel to the ceremony this weekend.

Yeah, it's older, but it was the only picture that didn't suck.

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Propagandalf
Dec 6, 2008

itchy itchy itchy itchy

FrozenVent posted:

Holy poo poo North Korea has planes that are impervious to US jamming technology! WHAT IS CONGRESS DOING?

Stealth AN-2s invisible to the most modern radars :tinfoil:

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