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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Filtering out people without side projects is a great way to filter out older candidates without actually discriminating based on age.

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Before compilers, programmers wrote out their ideas in detail, and then translated them into assembly. Now we write out our ideas in detail and a machine translates them into assembly. That's automation.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


You come off as somebody who was trouble making decisions. We all have doubts about what to do sometimes, but you seem to take it too far.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Odette posted:

I don't even know what's worse: PHP or Python.

PHP. PHP is worse.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


sarehu posted:

The standard advice is to take your annual salary and divide by 1000. That's your rate per hour — otherwise, you might as well get a job (or raise your rates and work less).

Shouldn't that be 2000 rather than 1000? Just based on 40 hours a week and 50 working weeks per year.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


meat on a Friday posted:

I got my first offer of $53K for a junior software developer position in Ohio. It seems like an excellent salary. Should I try negotiating or just take it?

Where in Ohio? There's nowhere insanely expensive in the state, but there is variation.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Just like COBOL.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.



That calculator's based on roughly ten year-old data. Don't pay any attention to it.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I don't doubt that someone will hire you if you go through a machine learning bootcamp, but it probably won't be me.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Blockchain.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Goldman Sachs is talking very seriously about blockchain.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


MSML is a master's program, yeah?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


The master's programs in data science that I've seen are pretty uniformly blatant cash grabs. A program in machine learning might not be, but if it's not really heavy on statistics, I'd be suspicious.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


B B posted:

TL;DR: What can a 30-year-old dude who lives in D.C. do with degrees in English and Computer Science outside of software engineering? What kind of jobs should I be looking at, outside of mobile/web development and QA?

There are a poo poo ton of defense contractors in the DC area. It's actually a pretty good job market as long as you don't mind that culture. Most of the positions they have are coding, but maybe something related to product management would be more your speed.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


rt4 posted:

Don't subtract anything yourself because your employer will always be happy to do it for you

This.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


B-Nasty posted:

I wonder how much logic in big enterprise code bases could be removed by someone that had a refresher on Jr High School-level algebra.

You really don't want an answer to this.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


And for the sort of companies who have ancient COBOL systems.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


huhu posted:

They didn't tell you it was going to be 5-6 hours?

To see when you break down.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Pollyanna posted:

Really felt like it was trying to ape Amazon or Google or something.

They almost certainly were. No one knows how to interview, so they just copy the big tech companies and hope really hard.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Capri Sun Tzu posted:

Agreed, this process wouldn't work for entry or even intermediate level. I think it points out a flaw in how CS grads are educated; they're taught to be scientists when they're aiming to be engineers. The details of how transistors work or how a compiler functions have almost no relevance to the day to day life of a modern developer.

There's a limit on how much practical engineering you can teach in a university setting. The semester/quarter structure makes it really hard to do any kind of long-term projects, and the fact that (almost) everyone has no experience means that working in groups is very artificial. And while it's true that most developers don't need to know the theory/low-level details, there are a few of us that do, and besides, future computer science professors have to start somewhere.

There's certainly room for reform, but there are real constraints on what's practical or even desirable.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Alternatively, you could just stab him on the way out. You'd be making the world a better place.

(Note: Don't actually do that.)

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Those aren't the same. If a company hires a candidate that a recruiter submitted, they have to pay a fee to the recruiter. If multiple recruiters submit the same candidate, that can get messy, so companies forbid that in order to avoid hurting their relationships with their external recruiters.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Vincent Valentine posted:

When I said "difficult field to get a great job in" I did not mean it was difficult to get a job that pays well. I meant that it is difficult to get a job that doesn't make you want to quit after a year.

I think this is very true, but it's much less so for people who are just starting out. It takes a few years and a few jobs to really appreciate the good ones.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Shirec posted:

Random question as I paper out more resumes, if I got rejected for a job over half a year ago +, and I submit a new re-worked application/cover letter to a new opening, is there a chance my old bad application would hurt me?

If you interviewed and failed in a memorable way, that's bad. But if you did OK but not well enough, or they never even interviewed you, then you're fine.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I have a section on my resume titled "Technical Skills" where I include anything relevant.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Wikipedia's article on the g factor is a pretty good explanation of what we know about general intelligence. The tl;dr is that it's real, it's highly heritable, and it matters.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I don't know if internal recruiters actually get paid per candidate, but bringing people in definitely works out in their favor.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Why does your boss have to know that you're interviewing?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Chemondelay posted:

Edit: I didn't include the abandoned PhD under the education section, but perhaps that's better than having a seemingly spotty work history?

Getting into a PhD program is not trivial. Some employers might care about that.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Algorithms interviews might measure your ability to talk to other developers, although it's not clear that they're a particularly good way to do that. They don't measure your ability to talk to product managers, business owners and external customers. All of those matter more at smaller companies and in more senior positions.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Algorithms and complexity aren't taught in bootcamps because there isn't time, not because the concepts are too advanced. There are a bunch of algorithms moocs out there, and between those and Cormen's "Algorithms Unlocked", you can easily get the basics down. If you spend some time with CtCI after that, you'll be good to go for a typical entry-level interview. The process takes a few months, but it's not all that difficult.

There's also something to be said for going through From NAND to Tetris or Computer Science from the Bottom Up. Those aren't going to be interview prep, but if you view what happens between the time you run a command and you get output as an inscrutable mystery, you will be limited as a programmer.

ultrafilter fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 31, 2018

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Xerophyte posted:

If you're sure enough to be willing to spend two years on this, have you considered applying for an MS in CS? As a filthy euro I admit I have a weak grasp of how easy that is as a non-science major in the US, but I have co-workers who have gotten one after getting bachelor's in law and architecture, respectively, so I assume it's possible.

There are various programs that are aimed at people with non-CS academic backgrounds, so this is possible. The only ones I'm familiar with are at elite schools, so they'll be very selective and expensive, but I assume that they're not the only ones out there.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


geeves posted:

I might be a bit old school when it comes to titles, but I wouldn't think senior until 7-10 years of experience. This isn't High School or University that 4-5 years automagically makes you senior.

In addition, until you can lead a team, manage multiple projects on your own including the full life cycle with little-to-no oversight and can burden that responsibility and manage company expectations, you're not senior.

I may be biased in my thoughts, but I've seen too many "senior" engineers gently caress things up.

I think this is conflating a couple things. There's seniority in terms of years of experience, and then there's seniority in terms of job function. There are plenty of people who've been programming for much longer than 7-10 years who don't have the experience necessary to be a senior engineer in the latter sense, and there's a much smaller number of people who are acting as senior engineers despite not having that many years under their belt.

I would prefer that the term senior engineer be reserved for the second sense, but I think that battle's been lost a long time ago.

Vincent Valentine posted:

At our company, most of this falls under project manager territory. The engineering leads take responsibility for the team, and then Dole out tasks to those team members. But the tasks they're given to complete are given by the project manager. The oversight largely comes from not being called out for talking about the same ticket five days in a row at stand up meetings.

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, just that at my company by your definition no one is senior. How does the chain of responsibility work at your company? Genuinely curious

There are plenty of companies that don't have roles for senior engineers. You may be working for one. If you stay too long, that will limit your career growth in the long run.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


geeves posted:

We ask a very open-ended question: If you had a great idea and wanted to start a new company or project, what would start with technology-wise.

What does a candidate's answer to that question tell you about their ability to do the job? Please be specific.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


geeves posted:

Sorry a few days late: It's more a question that candidates list all of this technology on their resume. It's throwaway and might not matter in a lot of ways, but maybe it gives a gut check "technology maturity" (I can't think a better term at the moment).

We had someone last week who listed Natural Language Processing on their resume. I asked this question: "NLP-wise, if you were to create a product for the company, how would you go about it - what is a base technology that you would consider?" They just fumbled into a non-answer, saying they would, "Research it." Didn't have anything else. I asked what products / open source projects might exist to help. Had no idea.

What it told me: They were probably a bullshitter or didn't think things through.

OK, I'll play along. I'm not a specialist in NLP, but I know that world a little bit.

So you ask me about building an NLP product, and what technology I'd be thinking about. The first thing I'm going to say is that it depends on what the requirements are, and then I'll ask you what you have in mind. What do you say to that?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


SardonicTyrant posted:

Found this on hacker news the other day:
http://www.gwan.com/blog/20160405.html

Seems a bit too simple for a Senior position.

It's worth reading the discussion as well. tl;dr is that a lot of people are skeptical that this guy is accurately recounting his Google interview.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Or at least put laxatives in his coffee.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Shirec posted:

There has literally been countless instances with my boss where any company with a functioning HR would have fired him immediately to save themselves from lawsuits.

Do you have enough documentation to take to a lawyer? Could be fun!

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Shirec posted:

Tomorrow I fly out, Tuesday I interview. I've been reviewing all the stuff listed on the Glassdoor interviews and general practice. If they ask me anything deep algorithm wise, I'll be screwed, but I'm hoping it'll be non terrible whiteboarding session.

Have me in your thoughts on Tuesday goons,

Good luck!

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ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Project managers are a vital part of doing software development at scale. You don't need them in a small company, but once you get past a certain point not having them is going to hurt a lot. Smart Agile shops realize that.

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