Getting your first home audio system? Read this.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Getting your first home audio system? Read this.

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Erwin posted:

Here's an off-topic question: why is the sound in theaters so god-damned loud? I mean, I like loud, good sounding systems, but some theaters push it to the point of being painful, and I'm positive they're exceeding OSHA limits. Has any theater gotten in trouble for this?

I feel like there's a point at which a soundtrack doesn't sound as good because the system is overloading your ears. I think some theaters put in their system and then just crank it up to 100% without putting any thought into it.

I go to AMC theaters and have never experienced this, one time i went to a century near my house (right next to a high school so theaters are PACKED with dumb shits) to see "fast and furious" (4) with some free castrol movie tickets. Either the theater hosed it up, or F&F was mastered to have no dynamic range whatsoever... it was like i was listening to a lovely bootleg rap album, everything had the exact same dynamics, regardless of what was happening. It was the only time my ears have actually hurt after an action scene in a theater. If i had paid i would have walked up and just left.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2011 22:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:45

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

I dont get the huge boners over polk monitors, ive heard them, theyre very bright and arent that great. These would be a much better buy imo

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ASIN=B000LQ2ABK

# ¿ Jun 24, 2011 07:28

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Baddog posted:

Hopefully this is the right place... I'm setting up my first home theater, and wanted some feedback on what I've been eyeballing. Finishing my basement, and I've got a small 10x14 room for a little home theater/gaming room. Its kind of small, so I don't think I have to go crazy on the speakers, but I do have it prewired for 7.1, and I'd like to have all 7 speakers for gaming.

Receiver: Onkyo HT-RC360, its $40 more than the 260 recommended in the OP, has a few nicer features.

Center and Fronts: Klipsch RF-42 and RC-42. I feel like its worth it to get decent center and front speakers, but anything more than this is overkill for such a small room?

Ceiling and rears: I think I can go cheap here, I see monoprice has a line of in-ceiling/in-wall speakers that the avs forum seems to think don't suck. I was looking at the 6 1/2 ones, I don't think I need the 8 inch. They have a lot of different options for the 6 1/2 inch ones though, and I may have picked out ones that are overkill for surrounds. They are so drat cheap though, what the hell, about 35 apiece.

Center surrounds (ceiling)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=4619&seq=1&format=2
Rears (wall)
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=7607&seq=1&format=2

For the sub, that $100 polk PSW10 seems like it would do just fine.

Looking at $1400 for the whole deal, if I cant find somewhere to get the Klipsch for less than MSRP.

Am I crazy for mixing klipsch and monoprice speakers?

For $1400 you can get ridiculously good stuff

B2031Px3. done

what gave you the idea you should get in ceilings? they suck and are for housewives who dont want to see speakers

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/321817-REG/Behringer_B2031P_B2031P_2_Way_Passive.html pair

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B2031P-Passive-Monitor-Single/dp/B0002Z82NA center

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers/SP-BS21-LR rears (can buy these from bestbuy)

Get a denon 2112 or 1712. 2112 only if you have component devices (so it can upconvert it to hdmi and have just one cable exiting receiver). call electronics expo.com and theyll give you the best price over the phone

Spend the rest of your budget on a sub. If you get the 2112 that should be $440 shipped, rest of the stuff is $480... so you have $500 for a sub?

Home theater is NOTHING without a good sub. Look, i love 2 channel music, and i run 2 channel music without a sub and believe in buying nice capable floor standers, but for primarily home theater setups the sub is everything. Home theater probably been my number 1 hobby for 7 years now and ive heard a lot of setups, so dont think im speaking out of my rear end here.

If you can, try to get the denon 1712 (not sure what electronics expo quotes over the phone for that) so you can spend slightly more on a sub.

subs:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html first choice
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=102

budget limited
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=951
http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 16, 2011

# ¿ Jul 16, 2011 19:10

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Baddog posted:

The price on the 2112 went up a bit, but they are still doing $430+19.98 shipping. $450 for that receiver did seem like a pretty good deal, got it, thanks man.

Pricing out those subs

-Rythmic FV12 is $619 with shipping
-Epic legend is $574
-avs forum seems to like Hsu as well, their VTF-2 MK3 is $572, the STF-2 (w/o the variable switch which I think might be overkill for mostly movies/games) is $392. The STF is also just a 10 inch though, looks like its just not in the same class as the others.
-And the installer I'm using wants to sell me a velodyne impact 12 for $400. Even though its a 12", the specs seem more like the 10" Hsu STF-2.

Thoughts on the Hsu and Velodyne?

I do kinda like the concept of the epic legend having dual 12" in parallel, and just looking around sealed seems to be nicer than ported. I'm kind of reaching a choking point on the amount of money I'm spending at this point though, haha. Its a relatively small difference compared to the total price of all the equipment I'm putting in though. If the epic legend is going to really sound a good deal better than the $400ish subwoofers, its probably worth it.

I unfortunately dont know what type of output to expect from each of the subs (havent seen many measurements from users). Ported rythmiks sound very good. Ported have a lot more output... just by porting a sub youre getting +3db which is in essence DOUBLING the SPL headroom. Ported drops off after the tuning point sharply, sealed rolls off more gradually, two big differences. Badly designed ported subs sound bad... but it isnt inherent characteristic of ported subs to sound bad.

The ed a3-300 is the most powerful woofer and amp, but i dont necessarily trust their design capabilities, subs arent that hard to design but from what i can tell they develop drivers for car audio then just slap them into enclosures for home theater, the frequency responses arent always that great unfortunately.

Rythmik knows what theyre doing, but they roll off their subs around 80hz. They will sound good and offer great output though, theyre some of the safest bets in subwoofers today.

epik legend is sort of close to the same size as the rythmik. I can tell you right now that the epik is fairly small for two 12"s. If you put a driver (or two) in a small enclosure then youll get more efficiency in the higher hz. Think 25-100hz. So it will start to roll off sooner but youll get a lot of volume at the midbass. IF they had put the drivers in an enclosure 1.5-2x as big it would extend deeper, but lose SPL at from 30-100hz. Basically my point is the epik probably trades deep bass extension for a ton of spl above 25hz.

I bought a hsu vtf2 mk3 when those came out 5-6 years ago. Sold it in december when i got my danley dts-20. HSU makes clean sounding subs that are reliable, i just struggle to compare them to newer subs. Typically what i see is manufacturers constantly bringing out more bang for the buck, so the hsu should be left in the dust. Cant say definitively, its got one of the largest cabinets which is a plus.

Cant go wrong with any of them really. Something to think about is doubling the drivers (like in the epik legend) is not AS amazing as its made out to be. Double the drivers? Add 3db (which is like doubling the volume). Add a port? Add 3db. Thats why they had to add another 12".

IMO
Rythmik -> Epik -> Hsu/eD.

If you cant afford the sub right now save up for a month or two

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jul 18, 2011

# ¿ Jul 18, 2011 21:53

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

jonathan posted:

adding 3db will not double the volume. Adding 3db requires twice the power. I have no idea if adding a second sub doubles the volume or just adds 3db though. Generally people with multiple subs aren't trying to go for louder bass, they're trying to get into the below 20hz range. Most 10" subs can already go well above an unbalanced sound and go "too loud". It's the setups with the big wattage 15" or dual 12" type setups that go really low.

If you're looking at $400 range subs, don't forget the Emotiva 12" !

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm

Yeah, i was wrong about doubling volume. My point remains that adding a second identical sub adds 3db, but adding a port does the same thing. The ultra 12" is nice but it doesnt really belong with the $600 subs.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 03:51

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

duckfarts posted:

(put this in the Quick Audio Questions Megathread on accident; moved here)

So, I've been listening to a couple different kinds of small speakers lately:

M&K K5
5 of these speakers were placed for a 5.1 setup, and I watched some Kung Fu Panda and the surround was fantastic, crisp with really good sound placement and clarity. When I tried listening to music though, it wasn't so hot; some kid singing opera ended up kind of shrill and muddy, and it wasn't clear.

Paradigm Atom Monitors
Due to the sales dude being retarded, I only heard this in a 2.1 setup sort of rushed together. It sounded good and strong with a warm feel, but you always got the impression that you were listening to something from speakers. This was after listening to a setup that used them as back speakers and used Monitor 7s for the front speakers, which sounded lifeless, and even asking the guy to turn up the volume, there was no feeling for movies or music. I don't know if it was settings or the guy just didn't know how to crank up the system to show it off, but I was wholly unimpressed(every other setup on this page sounded better, including the Atom Monitor 2.1 setup). WTF.

Focal Dome System
This is a 5.1 surround system with small satellites. It sounded really good for 5.1 movie stuff, and had also had excellent sound placement, though not as crisp as the M&K K5s. The center channel(well, satellite in the center) was a bit obvious though when people were speaking; it didn't seem to blend as well I think it should've. Music was kind of blah, and came off kind of lifeless; you wouldn't be able to get that feel of the instrument when listening to guitars or violins. Didn't seem like a bad system for a satellite based setup though.

Paradigm Millenia One
These are more 5.1 surround satellites with a small form factor. These sounded great, and were far better than the Focal Dome speakers, and yet they're cheaper(well, here; dunno what US prices are). For movies, things came out much clearer, and things sounded more "open" and less muffled. Music was also better, and I could start to pick out instruments individually(could be better, but it wasn't bad).

While listening to the Millenia Ones, the guy had to hastily connect them, and while watching movies, he kept flipping through different modes(Pioneer receiver, had modes for different movie genres or something), which changed the sound drastically, which is leading me to believe that a lot of these people can't loving set up a system to show it off, IE haven't tuned the system to sound great(which I might be able to/have to do). This is annoying, because this is the most recent setup I heard, and now this tosses the other speaker auditions in the air because it's harder to tell if those speakers would be much better if the sound was just tweaked. Also, he used a PDR-8 sub(apparently) instead of the Millenia Sub(which is loving expensive), but I couldn't tell whether it was on or not, and it sounded like all the bass was coming from the satellites(and not low enough and with zero strength/force). There was a part at the beginning of a Transporter 3 clip(yeah, it's on a common clip Blu-Ray the shops have) that starts with some bowwwwwwww buh-bowwwwww bass music, but you couldn't really hear that from the setup. I asked him to make sure the sub was on, and after turning something up, there was bass shakin', but it was farty/flabby and wasn't defined at all. I couldn't tell if it was due to lovely settings or if that was just how the sub sounded.

In any case, I'm looking between the Millenia Ones and a Pioneer S-31 bookshelf setup. The Millenia Ones because they sound great, and the Pioneer S-31s because they cost half as much, but I can't audition them right now(it's hard because I think they're order only around here).

(this has already been updated; see below)
Question: I'm going back to try listening to the PDR-8 again, but are there any cheaper subs you'd guys recommend? Brands I have access to there are Paradigm, Pioneer, JBL, and Yamaha(you don't have to match sub to speakers, right?). I don't need to shake the room(which isn't even that big), but I would like to hear what I'm supposed to hear for that frequency of bass, and to provide a bit of force when watching movies or playing games.

Non-edit: I'm planning on using a Pioneer VSX-920 or VSX-921 if that changes anything.

Update: I went back to the store the next day, and this time, a different guy was able to do sub adjustment properly and while not pant-making GBS threads or rear end-kicking, the PDR-8 sub was decent, and could blend in with the rest of the sound pretty well. Looks like I'm going with a set of Millenia Ones and a PDR-8; I'll post pics and impressions whenever installation and stuff gets done.

Order it yet? if not i have advice.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2011 12:27

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

First, paradigm subwoofers suck when it comes to bang for your buck. Theres zero reason to get one with the deals that internet direct sites offer you (depending on what country youre in)

To be honest im a little confused as to the purpose of this setup, do you want small speakers for aesthetic purposes? is this apartment or something and you figure smaller = less noise? What size are you aiming for exactly?

is this just a 2.1 setup?

# ¿ Aug 5, 2011 22:57

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

duckfarts posted:

Taiwan; I don't get Internet deals. This will be going into a small apartment living room with a 42" tv for 5.1 for movies and games, and also music occasionally. Due to the size/layout of the room, I can't use floorstanders, so bookshelf is the maximum size. Satellites would be nice for size and aesthetics, but not a requirement.

That kind of screws things up.. paradigm atom monitors is what i would get, the bigger the speaker the better as it will be able to play more music without requiring a sub (meaning it can be crossed over lower). thats my rule of thumb.

I would try to listen to monitor audio RX1, or dali ikons though as well...

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Aug 16, 2011

# ¿ Aug 16, 2011 00:45

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

RaoulDuke12 posted:

How far is too far to run HDMI and speaker cables before I'm starting to worry about delay issues?

Basically, my wife HATES where our media cabinet is, as it's right next to the fireplace and looks weird. The problem is, unless I shelf the media gear IN the fireplace (which I've thought about since we'll never use it), then I have to put it all the way in the dining room, which would mean I would need to run about 30 feet of HDMi and between 30 and 50 feet to each speaker.

Not to mention figure out some way to transmit infrared remote signals if I don't want to aim the remote over the couch every time I have to change channels.

Rrrrgh. Girls.

Never any amount of feet youll encounter in a house. ever

for IR could mount a mirror somewhere on your wall, or just get an RF remote system.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2011 08:59

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Yeah pretty sure you just point it at the devices and it should work. Not 100% positive though

# ¿ Aug 16, 2011 11:53

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Ive listened to monitor speakers and they were pretty shite

Id get these

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...s&condition=all

get a sub to go along with them

# ¿ Sep 5, 2011 22:58

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

jonathan posted:

Got news that I'm going to be getting a rather large pay increase.

I'm putting together a wish list of home theatre gear. Going to buy a place sooner than later and I'm going to build a dedicated home theatre room.

Going to tear out the drywall and do in wall wiring for all speakers devices.

Amps, processors and media devices will be rack mounted. Maybe in a closet or perhaps outside the entire room with an IR blaster to control everything.

Going to use a 1080p projector. I'd like to be able to set the center speaker behind the pulldown. I don't know if this is possible or not.

Thinking of doing platforms for the seating, with elevated theatre seats behind.

Not sure if I want to go with THX compliant reciever and speakers, or do seperates amps and a pre/pro.

If I go with a THX setup, I could take out a lot of equipment and cables by just going with a THX certified receiver:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-57

And then a badass Speaker setup:

http://www.klipsch.com/thx-ultra2-home-theater-system

The receiver claims 140watts per channel, and with a THX spec, I would assume thats with all channels driven, but the receiver only weighs 39lbs, about 1/2 of what a stand alone amp weighs.

The other route would be something like this:

http://www.klipsch.com/rf-7-ii-home-theater-system

And add the ultra II subs from the other setup and the dedicated sub amp.

The RF7 II's have dual 10" woofers. Because of some frequency response dips, these speakers need a lot of headroom from the amps. A normal receiver wont cut it, and I'd suspect even that reciever listed above might not be up to the task.

Something like this http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm (5 channel) plus this http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm (2 channel for the rear or maybe surrounds)

Plus a processor to drive the amps: http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

Both systems would be nice, and similar priced. Some say that the THX setup is better for movies, but the system is sort of "flat" for music listening.

Others say the Reference setup is much nicer for music. It also has huge drivers versus the 6" stuff in the THX speakers.

To be frank those thx ultra klipsch speakers are garbage. RF7s not so bad. If i were you the choice would be simple... order these with the DE250 upgrade

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_141&products_id=1006

theyre in a completely different league.

If you order 5 they should give you 15% off, might want to contact them about that.

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Sep 18, 2011

# ¿ Sep 18, 2011 11:05

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

jonathan posted:

I've heard nothing but good reviews, but i'm leary to buy thx stuff because I'm sure R&D blows a lot of money getting thx certified rather than spending it on the actual design.

Thats a correct assessment of thx, that its basically a bought label and nothing more. Lots of logitech speakers have thx for christs sake..

Ill give a rundown on why i think the klipsch speakers are weird

1) 60x90 is sort of weird for a horn. you would want 90x60... so tip the speaker horizontal? not sure how that would work if they designed the horn to work vertically
2) im pretty sure the specs are bull, 97db sensitivity AND 43hz -3db? Thats pretty unheard of, i think thats a massaged stat. Those 6.5" must have lovely compression figures.

Heres what i mean by compression:
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/Kallus42/2011%20sub%20test%20pics/EPIK%20EMPIRE/empirepowercompressionsweeps.jpg

Excursion stops at a certain point, and this is most noticeable in subwoofers, where as you turn up the volume more and more the subwoofer simply has no excursion so the frequency response completely changes. F3 of 20hz turns into f3 of like... 40hz. So basically when you have a loud passage in a movie and want the speaker to play at 110db peaks the woofers arent going to keep up... theyre going to turn into f3 100 or 150hz. Its just physics.

3) expensive as hell for cheap drivers. $40 for each of the woofers, the 1" titanium compression driver is probably cheap too
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-101&scqty=10 (when in stock they were $40... buyout or not thats cheap for a $1500 speaker)

Looking at those drivers i really dont know how they get 97db sensitivity... i have a feeling that stat is bull as well.

RF7 okay, but not sure about that horn. Might not hold directivity too well. Decent speakers but i feel like you can actually do *better* for cheaper

You basically know what youre getting with the eD speakers.. but hold out on buying them, avs forum might measure them soon, hopefully eD didnt screw up the crossovers. drivers are kappa pro 12A woofer + DE250 + qsc horn = $300 of stuff you can buy at parts express. DE250 is one of the best compression drivers on the market, tons of measurements. eD isnt doing any revolutionary, crossover isnt anything crazy, shouldnt be that hard to make the crossover.. but still

If i were you i would wait mainly for the avs member MK theater to get his speakers with DE250 upgrade because he will probably measure them. Worst comes to worst you just have eD build you some wayne parham pi speakers, then you really know what youre getting.

Its weird how hard it is to know what youre getting in a speaker... thats whats cool about the ed cinema, and the whole DIY scene in general.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2011 07:46

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Bunk Rogers posted:

How does one deal with speaker spikes on hardwood floors? I figured it would be simple to get some sort of pad to sit them on but it looks as though that might screw with the sound. I've already put a good gash into the new hardwood and I's like to avoid doing it again.

I wouldnt use speaker spikes if it has normal pads.. if there isnt

pennies

or

http://www.oregondv.com/Brass%20Floor%20Pads.htm

# ¿ Sep 23, 2011 20:46

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

jonathan posted:

This is a good post. Thanks so much for the clarification. It's weird because they're THX Ultra certified, which means they are "rated" to hold reference levels in 3000 cubic foot rooms, yet they don't seem like a very big speaker. My Klipsch F2's are of similar dimensions...

Another option:

Around december mark seaton (one of the best speaker designers out there imo) is going to have a kit. No word on price yet, basically all hes doing is selling everyone a crossover and a cabinet and wants it to be "screwdriver ready"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1363566

Depends on how quickly you want a home theater.

I cant imagine the cabinets costing more than $500 a piece before shipping.. speaker cost should be $1000 each and really be a no-compromise diy design. More details will be released in one to two weeks along with pictures i think. I might have to buy a pair. Tough thing is if you want to use one as a center its going to be massive. (30x20")

# ¿ Oct 1, 2011 08:19

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Yeah I have one RCA jack that says Subwoofer.

Hrm well the room is.... maybe 12'x10'x12'

I suppose, if it works and doesn't blow up. I don't need the floor to shake or anything like that.

And cheap being like under $200 or around $100> ideally

anarchy tapped horn flat pack + dayton plate amp

# ¿ Oct 15, 2011 20:58

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

HarryPurvis posted:

Hoping I can get some suggestions for a decent home theater setup around $500. My goals are pretty modest:

- 3.0 or 3.1 for optimum music and TV play.
- CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player included in the price range.

Most of what meets that criteria are the bundled home theater systems. Problem there is they are all 5.1. While upgrading to 5.1 would be nice someday, its a bit impractical for me at the moment. I've been putting together combos with the speakers mentioned by Jonathan, but keep ending up going over budget.

If anyone can point me in a good direction or make any recommendations it would be much appreciated!

Uhh so im assuming you dont have a receiver? blu ray player + receiver is like $300 right there..

# ¿ Oct 17, 2011 06:33

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

The Flying Milton posted:

So I guess I'm in a pickle. Someone turned my receiver on and a pop came out of the speakers, then a puff of smoke apparently came from the top. When I turn it on the pop happens and the unit turns off. Guess I'm hosed?

Email pioneer, theres no way that wouldnt be covered under warranty.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2011 04:28

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

AFewBricksShy posted:

I need help with deciding on a system.

I've decided I want to upgrade from my Pioneer/xbox 360 system that I got for $65 on Woot (http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-HTS-GS1-5-1-Channel-Surround-System/dp/B000H683YC), and taking the recommendations from this thread I decided on the following:
Front Speakers: Pioneer SP-BS21
Rear Speaker: Pioneer SP-BS41 (purchased from Woot the other day)
Center Channel: Pioneer SP-C21
Sub: Pioneer SW-8
Receiver: Pioneer VSK-920.

The problem I am having is with my front speakers.
Using the BS41's as a rough size match, they are just way too big for the cabinet I have my TV in. I can place one front channel speaker on the left side between the unit and the wall (see below) but I cannot find a place for the right speaker. She hated the way the speaker to the right on our old stereo looked when it was on the floor, so it's pretty much a given that I can't put the new one on the floor either.

I don't want to move those little shelf things because my wife sticks stuff on them, which would be the only possible thing that I can think of to fit the BS21's. To the right of the cabinet is an opening into our dining room.

So what I am wondering, and I did read the post about the front speakers being the most important speakers for the whole setup, is if there is something along the lines of the little 4"x4" speakers that I have there now (not pictured) that would be suitable for the halfway serious surround system that I am trying to build, but that don't cost an arm and a leg. I'd prefer to be in roughly the same price point as the other speakers.

Thanks.

Frankly i think the pioneer speakers are overhyped, theyre way too low sensitivity imo. I would get two of these and just lay them horizontally beneath the TV. a good 4x4" speaker is an oxymoron. Physics say so.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ASIN=B000LQ2ABK

# ¿ Nov 7, 2011 01:58

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

evil_bunnY posted:

Any recommendation for speakers that look good but don't sound like the average "design" speakers.

These Joey Roths look alright but I have no idea how they sound.

- Our place is pretty small and I *really* do not want to put huge floorstanding speakers in our living room

- Source will be 2.0

- Budget around 1-2k?

- We don't own/want a TV.

http://www.horns.pl/mummy.html

You still have to buy a compression driver, minidsp, amps, and woofer... but theyre fuckin cool

# ¿ Dec 22, 2011 04:14

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

HSU was the "musical" sub before rythmik was even around. Everything i read still says they tend to do that pretty well. SVS was known as the boomy sub not good for music (i think they now tune their subs a lot better though)

I had a hsu vtf2 mk3 and several times i had my receiver setup to play with my sub and didnt realize it was on, to give an idea of how well it integrated with floorstanders that i usually had set for full-range on music.

Rythmik is good and ive recommended them im just saying hes pretty much wrong about what hsu is known for. The HSU VTF15H even has Q adjustments on it for those who specifically want to tune it for certain types of uses, same as the rythmiks

You can probably safely go with both rythmik or hsu.

How much have you read from data-bass? Its all done by this guy named ricci who posts on AVS and does reviews for audioholics and is an authority on the numbers behind subs, as opposed to any sub review you read elsewhere which IMO is completely subjective bullshit.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems

I guess ill just spit out as my sub knowledge as possible:
two subs is good because it smooths out nulls and peaks in a room.. always a good thing. Adding another sub usually adds +3db to everything as a rule of thumb. Its a trade off, spend all the money on one sub and have big peaks and nulls but probably a significant increase in output or buy two and have a smoothed room response

ported vs sealed: ported gains a lot of output above the tuning point. I guess the fv12 is tuned to 20hz? below that the driver will go nuts, so it probably falls off sharply because the amp is employing a high pass filter at 20hz. Ported subs tend to be larger as well, but they play nicer with much weaker amps because with large volume and a port you are making the sub more efficient. Generally i think internet direct sealed subs lack the amp power needed to get 100% out of the driver, so thats something to consider

Sealed doesnt have a tuning point, the way you "tune" the box is either make the box smaller or bigger. Smaller boxes make the woofer more efficient at higher freq and bigger boxes make the woofer less efficient at high frequencies but have more extension. If the designers smart and wants a small box they'll boost the low end a bit and hopefully get an amp that can deal with all the boost (basically boosting isnt some magical thing.. it just requires a ton of power from the amp to make a flatter freq response). The epik legend shoves two 12" into a pretty small rear end enclosure with not so great amp. With the epik empire you got a frequency response that really rubs me the wrong way... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1351494

The amp is actually boosting and then high pass filtering right after that, which is blah to me.

Sealeds SHOULD be designed to need minimal or no high pass at all and roll off naturally to provide a lot of in-room extension. If theres thousands of watts then the designer can boost the signal

Ported SHOULD be designed to offer a lot of output above tuning but not have a tuning point thats super high either (then you would have a pro sound sub thats made for a club). Number one problem for any decently designed and powerful ported sub is port noise. Thats why whenever you see someone spending a couple grand on building their own subs that will hit like a truck they almost never go with ported, its simply too hard to control port noise due to the amount of air moving.

The FV12 is probably not dealing with enough displacement to cause port noise

For example lets throw a 12" subwoofer in a 2cu ft box sealed and then a 12" subwoofer in a 4cu ft box with a port, youve just gained +3db (above the tuning point) over that sealed subwoofer. +3db is huge. However the sealed subwoofer will roll off slower so it will have more lows generally. As said above, add another driver to that 2cu ft sealed box and you sort of just got +3db.. sort of. The problem with the epik legend is i dont trust epik. Their frequency response charts in ground plane (literally measured in the middle of a field) are all hosed up, not only is the box probably too small for the T/S parameters of the woofer, but on top of that they have the amp doing a lot of weird poo poo too (im basing this off of the epik empire review).

On the flip side the servo motor makes a rythmik FV15HP super accurate. Unfortunately the FV15hp has some roll off due to the servo that starts at like 80hz. So i wouldnt cross it over above that. Im assuming that the guy who runs rythmik really likes making subwoofers that play ruler flat in ground plane, which is how it should be.

Read up on the FV15HP to get an idea of how it differs with the epik empire
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342986

One final thing, you were like me and thought that the rythmik F12 was amazing for hitting 14hz when it isnt that amazing at all. At the time i had an idea of how they did it, but wasnt sure. Basically the way you do it is you just boost the low end way way too much, or vice versa, pull "down" the 14hz and above in a gradual curve. I can tell you for sure that in ground plane it only plays to 14hz flat around 80-85db. After that all the amp boost simply runs out on the low end, and the rest of the subwoofer will continue to play loudly while 14hz will continue to stay at 80-85db.

This is all part of power compression
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/asw-610xp/asw610xppowercompression.jpg/image_view_fullscreen

Notice how the sub when not being pushed hard have an f3 of 27hz, but when the amp and driver are pushed to its limits its f3 is now suddenly 37hz. Thats a huge difference.

The big problem is your speakers are 98db/1w sensitivity. If you fed 1 watt to your speakers and had two rythmik F12s, even with room gain, the amps would probably be maxing its boost if there was any 14hz material, and with room gain you would not even be hitting 98db.

edit: WALL OF TEXT.

My conclusion is i would probably buy two rythmik FV12, or one HSU VTF-15H or one FV15HP and hope my room doesnt have lovely peaks and nulls.

edit 2: or if youre comfortable with DIY you can have https://www.edesignaudio.com build some nice matte black boxes and then screw your own drivers in and use a behringer amp. ill help you figure it all out if you want.

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 29, 2011

# ¿ Dec 29, 2011 18:28

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Everything in australia costs like a bajillion dollars for no reason.

Your $1,000 doesnt seem to go far with regular "home audio" brands

No matter, those brands have lovely budget offerings anyways

If it was me it would be an easy decision, get a behringer b2031a or b2031p. Whats your receiver?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2012 12:57

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Nierbo posted:

I can pick up a set of b2013ps for $299AUD new on ebay, so if I went this route I'd just need a receiver and a sub?

I dont know the AUD markup on receivers but generally your best bet is to just buy the one that has enough hdmi inputs.

I just looked up the prices and a receiver that has an msrp of about $400 USD here (meaning you can go to a bestbuy and buy it for $300) is $800-$850 AUD. Pioneer 818 is the one im looking at...

What the gently caress australia

# ¿ Mar 8, 2012 23:59

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

You still need a means of adjusting the volume on the active ones remotely

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Mar 9, 2012

# ¿ Mar 9, 2012 01:46

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

The behringers take an unbalanced or balanced signal and amplify it, they have no means of using an optical signal.

What TV do you have?

edit: Actually scrap that whole ebay/craigslist, what websites would you use if you were shopping for a new receiver? I dont want to sift through a bunch of ebay/craigslist listings

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 9, 2012

# ¿ Mar 9, 2012 02:06

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Nierbo posted:

Television. My post code is 2500 so the craigslist would be: http://wollongong.craigslist.com.au

Haha, that is amazing that literally no electronic listings exist

I would probably just buy this if i were you

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-R...=item1c24736960

Very powerful and feature filled receiver. In US ebay takes 10% of whatever you sell for, so just offer to pay $400 cash and tell them to cancel the ebay listing to avoid final value fees.

Only negative is it doesnt have 3d support, in case you were looking at 3d tvs (im guessing no).

I have no idea what you should buy for your subwoofer, in the US we have a litany of internet direct companies that are pretty much the only places people buy subwoofers from anymore. Not sure if australia has anything like that

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 9, 2012

# ¿ Mar 9, 2012 02:18

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

With that receiver you can use active or passive versions of studio monitors (it has 7.1 pre outs on the back). It has really good amps so in the future if you find good passive speakers of some type you wont need a separate amp (lets say you buy a single behringer or krk passive monitor for your center channel, or buy some surrounds of any brand)

Active studio speakers are nice because they usually are bi amped and have active processing to sound a bit better than their passive versions.

Here are some massive speakers that will sound really good, and the bass wont be super deep, but it will be very loud and efficien for the bass it DOES produce.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250985899439?hlp=false

What i like about those is in the US a pair will cost $1000 USD, so its a good 1:1 ratio. You arent getting bent over simply for living in australia on those. I have KRK RP6G2 on my desk and i love them.

You could try buying this sub and combining it with some behringers
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wharfedale-Topaz-SW10-Amplified-Subwoofer-10inch-like-new-/110837919174?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item19ce746dc6

However 1) the sub may be broken. Cheap old subs like this usually have amps that are faulty in one way or another, KRK makes robust studio equipment, and its new, so you know it works. 2) 2x10" woofers > 1x10" woofers

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 9, 2012

# ¿ Mar 9, 2012 02:34

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

*https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOCAL-JMLAB-CHORUS-LCR700-LEFT-RIGHT-CENTER-SPEAKERS-x3-/180850060132?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item2a1b80eb64 Decent deal depending on how much they go for and if you want to pick them up

*http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dynaudio-Contour-1-1-/270943040791?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item3f1576b517 I like these speakers, depends on how much they go for $700 would be good.

*http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUDIO-PHYSIC-YARA-FLOOR-STANDING-SPEAKER-SYSTEM-/251023260623?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item3a7226fbcf If you feel like driving to pick these up and offer $650

*http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOSTON-ACOUTICS-A250-FLOOR-STANDING-SPEAKERS-PAIR-/260971126331?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item3cc3175e3b safe all around choice plus free shipping means no hassle

*http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B-W-DM603S3-QUALITY-ENGLISH-MADE-FLOOR-STANDING-SPEAKERS-/230764745336?pt=AU_Hi_Fi_Speakers&hash=item35baa69278 Will sound good but B&W typically attracts a high bid probably cuz of the name.

If it was me id offer $650 to pick up the Yara and tell him youll give him cash and he can just close the ebay auction when you pick them up saving him fees (which ARE 7-8% in australia so even if someone were to buy it now he would only get $700, but they wont use buy it now, so thats moot). If hes stupid he wont accept

Dynaudio are excellent sounding but how big is your room? anything bigger than 12' x 12' will be severely lacking in bass i think.

If you watch a ton of movies then get the 3 lcr700 (id bid max $700...), having a center channel is nice.

If you want the most bass then get the krk rokit 10s. Theyll have enormous output when you want to blast it.

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 26, 2012

# ¿ Mar 26, 2012 00:03

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Im pissing on your parade but when i got my monitor audio rosenut RS6 7 years ago i got 10% off (or maybe it was 15%) a sealed pair, and thats after i had auditioned a bronze pair in my house for a week. I would tell the dealer to order you rosenut RX6s, take 10% off, and you will be "auditioning" your current used pair until those ones arrive.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2012 08:41

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Nierbo posted:

Thanks for all the help coolskrillex. I'm keeping my eye on those LCR700s. I am mainly watching movies and TV series so getting the centre channel now will be great. I'll just go 3.0 or 3.1 till I get my own place.

Looks like no one is bidding on the focals.. might get them for cheap

# ¿ Apr 3, 2012 02:14

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

beedeebee posted:

I'm renting an apartment with my girlfriend and we're gonna need a sound system. Mainly to listen to the radio, watch TV and play some PS3.
I'd like to get the minimum of wires and cables etc, and getting wall-mounted speakers isn't an option because we aren't allowed to drill holes in the wall etcetera.

I was thinking about getting a soundbar (that is the name for 1 speaker that sort of creates a surround effect right? See how much I know about this?), but a quick glance at this thread shows that the general consensus about them is not very positive.

Price isn't that big of an issue, we don't need to have the cheapest set-up out there, but we don't neet something outrageously expensive either.

Name a price as we're not psychic, whats expensive to me is not expensive to you

# ¿ Jul 7, 2012 11:27

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

jonathan posted:

Anyone ever come across BriteLite m2000 powered PA speakers ? I was at costco and they had a few pallets full of these. They're advertised as having a 600watt rms (2000 peak) amp, 15" woofer and a typical PA horn tweeter. They wanted $299 each. They take XLR, RCA and TRS inputs, as well as bluetooth, usb and sdcard, and have a digital EQ as well as bass/treble dials.

They also come with tripod stands. I cant find any actual reviews online wrt frequency response or distortion. I figure these have the potential to be absolutely badass as a front stage setup behind a projector screen.

I found a website that mentions 105db sensitivity and 65hz lower frequency limit, which sounds about right for a high efficiency speaker. I would also assume distortion would be pretty low at movie sound levels.

http://www.bjs.com/britelite-bluetooth-capable-m2000-multi-function-speaker.product.257065

Please dont waste money on these and expect anything other than a public announcement speaker. Might sound good at a backyard BBQ, but probably not

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

Waveguide speakers are all about polar responses. That britelite probably beams like hell all the way up to 3000hz then gets wider as the compression driver takes over. Diy sound group has speakers that are easily worth $5000 a piece when assembled. Fusion sentinel for example will seriously sound better than 803D bower and wilkins.. as in they will measure better, and why shouldnt they? their drivers are as expensive as B+W just without the 1000% markup and expensive cabinet.

# ¿ May 20, 2014 06:06

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

slidebite posted:

I've done a bit of reading/searching in this thread for soundbars, and what I have seen is pretty negative in general. including the posts just below this one from a couple days ago.

My mom wants to buy my dad a 2.1 soundbar for christmas though and has asked me for advice. I know nothing about them other than the ones I have seen are generally in a store like walmart and are something I wouldn't personally buy (I have a 5.1 setup personally). They were in some store though earlier this year and he really liked the sound that came out of one versus his TV speakers so now he needs one. I see the posts directly below (mentioning a cheap amp) but I am not sure that's how we should go for this scenario.

For a limited budget (say, <$400?) is there such thing as a "reasonable" soundbar or a simple substitute for a 2.1 soundbar? Doesn't need any video playback capabilities, he has a PS3 which he uses as a DVD/Bluray/Netflix box.

Just 2.1 audio, nothing special. Remote would be nice too for obvious reasons. Some used amp won't float it as it is intended as a gift and I can easily see a multitude of input options confusing the heck out of him as he's almost a senior and pretty technically clueless.

E: I guess I'm asking, if a person were to buy a soundbar, is there one or brand to recommend? Or what is the closest "soundbar-like" thing?

These are real fuckin cool. The fit and finish is going to blow away any soundbar thats $400. Only thing is it doesnt take an hdmi input, but thats not a huge deal in my opinion, the tv can just output optical sound most likely (or optical straight from the ps3 to this)

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...uced-200/1.html

I have absolutely no use for these but im tempted to get some just to act as a glorified pc speaker setup.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2015 21:07

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Thermopyle posted:

Yes.

Whats your setup now? Usually if you have a center channel that means you already have a receiver.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2016 20:05

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Thermopyle posted:

Well, right now I'm not using anything other than TV speakers. When I said "yes", I was just saying that in the past, when I was using a receiver, I had a center channel. I've had two different Onkyo's in the past 15 years and both had the problem.

Oh

Buying a receiver and left, right, and center will do wonders. Mainly because i just boost the center about three decibels. It helps a lot. I honestly don't use any of that audyssey dynamic volume stuff. But if you need to you can always use that at night. I've tried lots of soundbars with "center" drivers and they all sound like poo poo no matter how much vocal boosting crap they have on their remotes.

It helps to have a heavy duty speaker for the center too, one that won't suffer compression issues. I'd spend $250 on a receiver and $200 each on the speakers. They'll last forever and make a world of difference.

If you need recommendations for speakers let us know

# ¿ Jan 23, 2016 09:45

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Thermopyle posted:

Right...I'm saying that I have had receivers and good speakers in the past. I've just never been happy with the quality of dialog I could get out of it without constantly having to adjust the center channel.

That's why I'm asking if any receivers are known as being particularly good at doing this automatically via DRC or whatever.

Most center channels are really not engineering well due to inherent issues with the speaker being on its side, namely comb filtering. A Woofer tweeter
Midrange woofer layout is usually the bare minimum needed to overcome comb filtering and have something come close to measuring well.

Emotiva has a new line of speakers coming out that look really promising for the price.

http://audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/emotiva-airmotiv-preview

# ¿ Feb 1, 2016 18:48

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

qirex posted:

A center channel speaker isn't a magic solution for a lovely mix, some movies just aren't done well.

Ive seen the se7en blu-ray, i had no problem hearing dialogue on my cambridge soundworks newton M80. Most receivers really arent fit to downmix to 2 stereo channel. For clarity of dialogue theres seriously no better investment than a new center channel.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2016 20:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:45

coolskillrex remix: Jan 1, 2007; gorsh

Walked posted:

Moving to a new home and replacing my TV and speakers.

I only ever watch TV / listen to music through my FireTV these days. And I dont care about surround.

What's the best in 2.0 or 2.1 setup I can put together, ideally without needing a receiver (but if I need a receiver, something relatively compact so we can keep a minimal wallmount thing going). Budget is somewhat flexible as we're trying to do this once and never again.

I've done Dana 630 speakers (broke after a few years) and then AV30s as a standin at our apartment, but now moving to a way nicer/bigger house.

Walked posted:

Moving to a new home and replacing my TV and speakers.

I only ever watch TV / listen to music through my FireTV these days. And I dont care about surround.

What's the best in 2.0 or 2.1 setup I can put together, ideally without needing a receiver (but if I need a receiver, something relatively compact so we can keep a minimal wallmount thing going). Budget is somewhat flexible as we're trying to do this once and never again.

I've done Dana 630 speakers (broke after a few years) and then AV30s as a standin at our apartment, but now moving to a way nicer/bigger house.

Still have the Dana 630? Speakers don't really break that easily. I wonder if some solder joint just broke off or something. Ever take one apart?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 07:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Getting your first home audio system? Read this.