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My Imaginary GF posted:How many vinyards were burned when the Turks wished to seize hellenic lands? How many olive plantations were turned to firewood so that Turks could make a quick buck off selling their wood? How much in American-owned capital was enraptured by the Turkish holocaust against hellenic influence? Tell us more about your deep insights on Turkish and Arab cultures and these cultures never ending crusade against the ~hellenic influence~, friend!
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Jul 24, 2015 08:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:"...good enough to be in NATO" includes places like Luxembourg and Albania. I get your point though. Their membership in NATO predates any of the relatively new Eastern European (Albania etc) countries with less than competent military forces.
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Jul 24, 2015 08:59
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My Imaginary GF posted:Turkish forces arm and protect islamists as a proxy force to violate the human rights of minorities for turkish benefit? What a twist! Surely this is a mere abborgation of Turkish policy and not a trend which continues to this day. Do we have anything solid as an indication and proof to back your claim up, or are you just wildly speculating to back your agenda of privilege as I'm suspecting that you do? 
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Jul 24, 2015 09:03
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FAUXTON posted:How well-run is Turkey's military compared to, say, the Iraqi army and the Syrian army? Turkish military is actually one of the rare competent militaries of the region that can get things done. I'd dare say that in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, it's one of the actual military forces that should be reckoned with along with IDF and maybe Jordanian military. They are in pretty good shape when it comes to manpower and equipment/hardware. Generally I'm very biased against Arab military forces as they are structured more in the lines of being an effective tool for conducting internal security rather than military operations in the strict sense. They almost always are lacking in training and competency even though some obviously are in a position to procure state of the art hardware from the West. Primary purpose of most, if not all of the Arab military forces seem to be preventing and preceding any chance of a coup against the political establishment of the country. Needless to say, Turkish military is nowhere near being structured like that. They do have state of the art hardware and a well trained corps, even though mandatory military service is upheld. 'Fighting' and 'Frontline' units of the Army are all professional corps, likewise, the combatant units and corps of the Navy and the Air Force are also 100% professional. They strictly follow the NATO doctrine in training.
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Jul 24, 2015 09:13
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icantfindaname posted:Well that and their country is literally founded on genocidal ethnic nationalism Yeah, no. You are thinking of Nazi Germany.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:25
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FAUXTON posted:Then again, Turkey has a real problem with seeing Kurds as human beings so it isn't like you're going to reason with a Turk on the topic of Kurdish statehood. So you are arguing that Turkey has a real problem with seeing Kurds as human beings, yet I can see that Turkey has had more than one president of Kurdish ethnicity during the republican period. There is no such attitude in Turkey which would legitimize your comment, sorry.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:31
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eSports Chaebol posted:Hey now, Germany was already pretty well ethnically cleansed by the time of the Weimar Republic. Modern Turkey is as much as founded on genocidal ethnic nationalism as modern France, Spain and Germany being founded on genocidal ethnic colonialism or the United States being founded on genocidal ethnic secessionism and expansionism. Which is to say, it isn't.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:It's not PKK positions which Turkey is attacking, its Kurdish positions. A virtual distinction, which is only recounted because of Kurdish PR. Majority of the combat capable forces that can be associated with Kurdish identity are owned, commanded and controlled by PKK. The rest belong to Kurdish tribal warbosses such as Barzani clan or Talabani clan. A easy hint to distinguish is this: Any organization such as YPG or whatever the Kurdish PR machine is looking to brand at the time incorporating socialist/marxist insignia and ideology is PKK rebranded almost 99% of the time.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:38
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My Imaginary GF posted:Why does Turkey have unutilized capacity not spent bombing ISIL? Would they like to purchase some squadrond of export F-35s to free up capacity? Why does the country and the subcultural group you are bound to have utilized capacity not spent bombing or doing the bidding of someone else? Also, you are demonstrating your hilarious ignorance with your last remark here. Turkey does not need to request or negotiate for the ability to purchase the F-35. They are a high level partner nation in the project, they have invested in it and they are producing several subcomponents of each airframe, not just for integration and installation into the airframes Turkey purchases, but for every F-35 that gets produced, regardless of the customer state.
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Jul 25, 2015 08:42
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icantfindaname posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergonha Yeah, I agree with you on how French nationalism and the revolutionist movement influenced the Ottoman-Turkish nationalist/revolutionist movement which ended up founding the Republic of Turkey. But I still think your reflections about ethnic identities in the larger Middle East vis-à-vis ethnicities in the modern Turkey are highly inaccurate. Personally, I'd dare say clans (tribalism) and sectarianism are more evident lines of division in the greater Middle East then cultural/ethnical identities. Especially, you need to consider how and why Pan-Arabism came to be and how it garnered support during the second half of the 20th century. Turks regard the Turkish identity as one that is ingrained in culture and language rather than regional roots and/or ethnic background. As such, the 'Turkish identity' has been engineered from the ground up only with the foundation of the Republic. It wasn't formulated as it is now during the Ottoman Era. (Or perhaps we can argue that the Ottoman-Turkish nationalist movement is only a product of the post-French revolution era, as the idea only got in circulation among the Ottoman intellectuals after the French Revolution)
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Jul 25, 2015 10:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:
Hilariously, from a series of rhetorical questions you bring up under this thread to further your bullshit line of thought, only the answer to the first question is yes. And that is only because anyone making it across the border to the Turkish side can get medical care, unless they are clearly uniformed (in which case, they'd be under the employ of Assad). Turkish Ministry of Health published numbers regarding this a few months back. Surprisingly, it turned out YPG and the other Kurdish organizations benefited most from this, as most of their casualties receive medical care and get back up on their feet through Turkish hospitals. Israel has a similar policy on their end of the border with Syria. They do provide indiscriminate medical aid to those who reach the stations that provide humanitarian aid on the border. Needless to say, if you were intellectually honest, that would have necessitated you to also argue that Israel, next to Turkey, also supports ISIS. But hey, why am I so sure that you will never argue that line? But please do continue to amuse us and demonstrate to us how 'Turkish Security' (or whatever that would entail in your improper usage of terms associated with Turkish government/military structures) provide ISIL/ISIS with arms, heavy weapons and coordination. Surely you have plenty of proof that has been published on respectable outlets? And while at it, do the same about 'Turkish officials making bank off ISIL protection payments' too.
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Jul 30, 2015 07:24
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Sergg posted:This is a dumb opinion and you should be embarrassed for typing out these idiotic words. Hope this helps. His first part of the argument has merit. PKK conducts their play from the standard issue marxist/maoist guerilla's handbook. Attacking and killing civilian servants such as teachers and medical staff assigned to the Southeastern Turkey, attacks on civil engineering projects that are part of the regional prosperity initiatives that the central government takes up (such as dams and irrigation projects) etc. are still going on and not just the PKK's playbook from 90s. Last week, in Southeastern Turkey, a group of PKK terrorists called in emergency services and reported in a case of child birth and requested an ambulance. When the ambulance arrived at the given address, the crew was taken off it and saw the barrel end of their weapons and they opened up on the ambulance itself, destroying it. Then they kidnapped the EM crew and they are still holding them as captives.
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Jul 30, 2015 07:31
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My Imaginary GF posted:Ding ding ding. Turkey has a great working relation with ISIL; why would they want to lose it? Ding ding ding, you are talking out of your rear end again.
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Jul 30, 2015 07:33
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Baron FU posted:Did you really have to ask? He rapid fires 3-4 replies with Turkish propaganda every couple of days and then disappears. Pretty much the only propaganda here lies within the posts of those who seek to portray or paint PKK and their associates as if they are the Spanish left during the Spanish Civil War. We are talking about a terrorist group that has an established history of attacking civilian targets, killing civilians en masse and causing terror in the general populace to further a certain political agenda. Pointing this out can only be argued to be propaganda just as one can argue instances of terrorism in the United States to have a legitimate basis. Anyone who tiptoes "PKK are valued allies" line is just as credible and legitimate in my eyes as Timothy McVeigh, Anders Behring Breivik, Abu Bakr Al-Bagdadi or Anwar Al-Alwaki. We live in a strange age in which liars and propagandists are ever so adamant on crying wolf and reflecting their self image on those who oppose the PR bulletin they are disseminating.
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Jul 30, 2015 12:05
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Liberal_L33t posted:The PKK is probably the least objectionable armed group for five thousand kilometers in any direction. Are you trolling with this stuff? Only if you are playing "this terrorist group yay, that terrorist group boo". There are quite a few legitimate armed forces in the region who are very much less objectionable than PKK and rebranded associates operating under various names that does not have a history of terrorizing and murdering civilian population.
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Jul 30, 2015 12:08
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Rukeli posted:If you want the US to bomb every organization in the world with ties to terrorism, including those which have not carried out attacks against Americans, and without taking into account the peculiarities of the conflict they are entrenched in, then the US had better start bombing PKK and YPG positions and prepare for Operation Cast Lead II. Fun fact: Certain designated terrorist organisations which previously and repeatedly attacked US targets fight alongside PKK/YPG forces in Syria as close allies. (DHKP-C and MLKP) Pakled posted:I mean, the choice here isn't "pro-Kurd vs anti-Kurd" it's "anti-Kurd with Islamist baggage vs anti-Kurd with Turkish nationalist baggage." This is a pretty dumb thing to say. Anti-Kurd sentiment, as the PKK propaganda/PR would like the Western audience to believe doesn't exist in meaningful quantities in Turkey. Marxist/Maoist cult of personality PKK has been waging a bloody terrorism campaign since 1978, so the popular and overwhelmingly visible sentiment among the society is very much anti-PKK. (Or any group and organisation that worships Apo in the full North Korean sense) I'd say at least the %90 of the population is very strongly anti-PKK, which is quite normal and to be expected. I've seen a lot of talk about the Armenian genocide in this thread (hat tip to icantfindaname) but what hasn't been said is that the Armenian genocide is just a continuation of official Ottoman and Turkish policy. Sergg posted:I've seen a lot of talk about the Armenian genocide in this thread (hat tip to icantfindaname) but what hasn't been said is that the Armenian genocide is just a continuation of official Ottoman and Turkish policy. Yeah, no. First of all, Turkish Republic didn't even exist until 1923, and nothing of that kind (massacres, killings) has ever been an official policy of Turkey. Your chronology is all messed up. Furthermore, when the relocation and massacres took place, Ottoman Empire was the sovereign state in those parts. At the time, Ottoman Empire was a constitutional monarchy with a monarch as the head of the state and a parliament which produced a government to run the state. Evidence from official archives (meaning official state communique between Istanbul and provinces) suggests that while the relocation was officially mandated on the basis of protection of local population and that parts of Armenian population in the eastern provinces were actively aiding and abetting Czarist Russian invasion forces, anything and everything pertaining to killings and massacres were not and thus are attributed to a clique within the Committee of Union and Progress, the ruling party that controlled the government. Besides, the insinuation that 'Ottoman Empire relocated Muslim refugees from the Balkans and Caucuses in Anatolia' is dumb if it's used as a general historical trend, as the general trends in Ottoman settlement policies starting with 15th century have always been the other way around: Muslim populations from the Anatolian heartlands were settled into the freshly conquered Balkan and Caucus territories, while the non-Muslim locals tended to be moved to Anatolian heartlands as a measure of stability. almighty fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 06:54
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CherryCola posted:On the topic of the Middle East: It is safe to say that such a point will never be reached. Turkey's sole concern and interest at the moment is preventing, or failing that containing a de facto PKK run enclave spanning through it's borders in the Southeast. As far as Ankara is concerned, Damascus gaining control of as much as border territory possible is a win for Turkey.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:07
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Sinteres posted:There's been a lot of talk about the US and Russia reaching a grand bargain lately, and about Russia not giving a poo poo about Assad ever regaining control over the entire country. If Russia letting Turkey into Idlib means they have to send fewer of their own troops to patrol safe zones forever, it could happen. Yup. Speaking of which: https://twitter.com/SyriaGeneral/status/883096841793007616 This is probably PYD handing over Afrin to the SAA.
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Jul 7, 2017 02:45
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nothing to seehere posted:I still don't get Volkerball's insistance there there is no room for political reform in Iran. I see it as similar to like 18th century britain - there is a group of Clerics(Lords) who do hold veto power over everything, and do exercise some control of the elected officials(Commons) but are slowly accepting incremental changes for the sake of keeping control, while crushing more radical dissent. You cannot say with a straight face that Saudi and Iran have the same lack of potential for domestic reform- they are vastly different. It's more complicated than the 18th century Britain. For instance, IRGC is a fiefdom of it's own in the state apparatus with diverse interests in various fields of business. One can't really do business in Iran without touching elbows with IRGC elite. It's quite akin to the Egyptian Military's case in Egypt: Military owns a business conglomerate with an arm in literally every cookie jar there is.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:44
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Sinteres posted:Working with Turkey to ease their concerns about Afrin while the US refuses to do so about Rojava seems like a better strategy to make mischief than telling Erdogan to go gently caress himself and stay out in the cold. As a local Goon (Turkish), I would like to remind you all that despite the mixed opinions on him prevalent in the Turkish public, Erdogan acts with almost above 80% approval rate in any sort of preventive, active, military stance against KCK/PKK/YPG regardless of whether such a policy entails action on Turkish territory, or the Syrian territory. An overwhelming majority of the Turkish society hates and despises KCK and all of their affiliates since KCK's been conducting attacks in Turkey since 1980s. Even if we did not have Erdogan in charge, government policy with regards to KCK wouldn't have been that different. Common folk here just don't like getting suicide bombed to bits and pieces, and they understandably have an extremely poor opinion of KCK (the usual perpetrator of such terror attacks along with ISIS) and various affiliates inside and outside Turkey.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:55
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Sergg posted:I'm the crazy person who thinks Turkey's very flawed quasi-religious democracy is preferable to hereditary fascist dictators who claim the mantle of secularism in one breathe and massacre their own citizens by the thousands with the next. Eh, Turkish Goon chiming in here. There's not really much about the Turkish system that could be considered religious. (It is certainly a mistake to deem Turkish state and the government quasi-religious) The entire system was initially modelled after the French laïcité, and over the last decade or so, it took a softer turn which in essence makes Turkey closer to American secularism. There were arguably a couple of components which were just too strict, such as not allowing the women covering their heads to attend universities while their heads were covered after the age of 18. Those were toned down, and in my opinion, they should have been a long time ago. There are no religion based laws, the secular character of the government and the state is guaranteed by an unchangeable article of the Turkish constitution which's been there since 1926 and the state is essentially supposed to be the guarantor of your religious freedoms and only is in business of overseeing the religious affairs through a directorate. While it's true the existing directorate tends to be heavily biased and preferential towards Sunni Islam, it's main job is actually keeping religion as a whole in check and making sure there aren't preachers out there pushing stuff that'd meddle with the political sphere. Essentially, the whole system was established to keep religion in check and contain it away from the politics.' I'm aware that some of you guys have never been at this corner at the world before, but anyone who has visited certain Middle East monarchies (which are in effect non-secular) and Turkey would see the difference between two lines as clear as the day and the night. Mozi posted:Just to note that describing Turkey's democracy in that way just goes to show how quickly secular democracy can die if the people don't vote for it. This outcome would have been the case if the cult of Gulen was able to overtake the government through force last year. Turkey's democracy and the secular aspects of it haven't really been diluted much over the last decade as I have pointed out before. Perhaps a shift from a strict interpretation of the French laïcité towards a more relaxed American secularism could be argued to be the case, since the former was so harsh in essence, it was actually managing to keep the practicing Muslims out of the social life. almighty fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 03:14
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Cease to Hope posted:is there any non-erdogan-sourced-propaganda offering any explanation for who was behind the turkish coup last year? i take the "gulenist third column" stuff with a titanic grain of salt There is already a EU report and a separate UK parliamentary inquest report highlighting the role followers of Gulen had in the coup attempt, but if you're looking for details, this would be a good start. The piece is a little long, but it's extensive and rich in detail. Like I've said before, Gulen infiltrating critical institutions of the state such as the Turkish National Police and the Turkish Military is nothing new and precedes Erdogan's prominence in Turkish politics. Gulen's cult has been trying to take the state over since at least the 1980s. Here's a video of Gulen shot back in Turkey during the 90s in which he preaches his followers to accelerate their efforts to infiltrate key positions of the state bureaucracy and civil service. The sermon is in Turkish, but English subtitles are hardcoded. For reference, Erdogan and his party were first elected to government back in 2002.
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Jul 26, 2017 03:46
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Squalid posted:Do you know anyone who has been affected by efforts to remove Gulen supporters from the police, academia, or other critical institutions, almighty? I do. Almost all are people that I've long known to be supporters of Gulen. (Mind you though, being a support of Gulen doesn't always mean active role or participation in the coup attempt. Government is just dismissing everyone who's known to be a follower, supporter or a literal member of Gulen's cult, regardless of whether they took a part in the coup or not) There are few exceptions such as one of my classmates back from my high school days. As for my friend from the high-school, he has always been a non-religious (like me) and a leftie/socialist type, and after going on to attend university and receiving his undergrad degree, he went on to join the civil service under one of the ministries in Ankara. Two months after the coup, he posted on Facebook to announce he was dismissed with a government decree which came out on that day. His name was one of those on the dismissal list attached to the decree. He was understandably agitated about the whole ordeal, since by nature, he is someone who is against anything an individual such as Gulen or his cult would stand for. I spoke with him afterwards and he told me he'd be initiating the official process for objecting his dismissal on the grounds of his obvious non-involvement with Gulenists. He ended up getting re-appointed to the ministry he was previously working for just before the New Year's for the same position. Squalid posted:Is there still much of a Gulenist network or has it bee entirely liquidated by now? It's really difficult to answer that question. As I've pointed out before, Gulen's group has been trying to infiltrate the critical positions of the state machinery since the 80s. Add to that the fact that how the traditionally secular, Kemalist Turkish bureaucracy used to be allergic and quite vigilant against Gulen's attempts, the usual method for them to get somebody inside quite literally mirrored how an intelligence agency would try to obtain or plant assets in the bureaucracy of a target, rival nation: Gulen's people would headhunt mostly poor kids from disadvantaged backgrounds fresh out of K12 schools with promises of providing free places to stay, tutors and study groups for the university exams and they'd slowly indoctrinate those they could recruit with their cult's religious teachings. Turkish bureaucracy and military actively used to scrutinise Gulen affiliations in background/security checks during 90s and early 2000s for this reason. Gulen's movement adapted to that by keeping the involvement of kids they'd recruit secret and even going on to order them to appear non-religious specifically in public and social life (Do not pray or fast, consume alcohol casually, if married do not have your wife wearing a headscarf and have her refrain from dressing conservatively etc). It was only with Erdogan's AKP solidifying their power base and their cooperation with Gulen's cult in late 2000s the Gulen movement switched to pushing their people into public service openly, and this lasted until 2013-2014, the eventual fallout of Erdogan's cooperation with Gulen. Fun fact: Gulen initially escaped from Turkey to the US during the late 90s because the Turkish judiciary at the time put him on trial for leading a group aiming to take over the Turkish state and anti-secularism. Later during the late 2000s and early 2010s, Gulen's followers tried to conduct massive purges of Kemalists/Secularists in the Turkish military through the sham Ergenekon and Sledgehammer trials. Here's a good paper penned by professor Dani Rodrik from Harvard's JFK School of Government on the subject. Squalid posted:A slightly different topic, but do think the HDP is going to come under more serious scrutiny for links to the PKK, or do you think Erdogan will let up the pressure on them? Admittedly I think a lot of people in this forum (myself included) are attracted to them by their pluralistic message and moderate-left positions, but I haven't heard much of how their recent troubles have played in Turkey. As for the HDP, like the several Kurdish ethno-centric political parties it succeeded, it's heavily under the influence of KCK/PKK as KCK/PKK is in the habit of coercing any alternative political movement that addresses the Kurds by any means possible (including threats of violence and direct application of violence) While I really wouldn't really argue HDP constitutes the literal legal political party or branch of KCK/PKK, the key positions in HDP were certainly filled by individuals with strong connections to the PKK, such as Figen Yuksekdag and Selahattin Demirtas. Those individuals had their parliamentary immunities stripped by the popular vote of the parliament and they are now on trial, but the Constitutional Court closing down political parties has been made very difficult with the 2010 amendment to the Turkish constitution. Also considering how Erdogan himself witnessed political parties he was a member of closed during his junior years in politics (90s) and actually drat near had his own party getting closed back in 2007, I'd say the chances of HDP coming under more scrutiny as a party and being subjected to closure is nil. For more details in English on the history of KCK/PKK and the Kurdish ethno-centric political parties which first surfaced during the late 80s, you might want to look into the excellent book Blood and Belief by journalist Aliza Marcus. I also do happen to have an electronic copy in hand, so feel free to hit me up with a PM if you'd like a copy for ~review purposes~. And lastly, you'd be making a big mistake if you buy into the HDP's supposedly pluralistic, European-style, socialistic, narrative addressed for the external audiences. Their internal narratives disseminated in Kurdish majority regions are first and mostly based on Kurdish nationalism and ethno-centrism. If you check out their vote shares, you'd also see they're only getting votes in droves from the Kurdish majority Southeast only. Consider this: HDP might be organising LGBT parades in Istanbul and other metropolitan Turkish cities, but they wouldn't dare replicating that feat in the Kurdish majority southeast, which is actually very conservative. A LGBT parade in a conservative, Kurdish majority town would end up getting booed and shunned. (This is also why Kurdish vote almost exclusively goes towards HDP -for nationalistic reasons- and Erdogan's AKP -for conservative outlook/lifestyle related reasons-) almighty fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 06:31
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Thank God erdogan is protecting democracy by putting the hdp lady on trial for being associated with Kurds and refusing to allow foreign observers to be present. Champion of democracy, hammer of autocrats, man of peace It has less to do with Erdogan, and more to do with the modern history of Turkey, specifically post-1980 era. The book I've referenced (Blood and Belief by Aliza Marcus) is an excellent resource in English for KCK/PKK's heavy influence and co-opting of Kurdish ethno-centric political parties (predecessors of the HDP) which started to pop up in late 80s. All were either setup by the KCK/PKK itself or started out as independent from KCK/PKK and later got co-opted by them through variety of means (including violence and intimidation). KCK/PKK does not allow or tolerate any opposition to itself and seeks to control everything related with the Kurds. Erdo first got elected into a national government position back in 2002, KCK/PKK started out as PKK back in 1978 and the first of HDP's predecessors started out back in 1989-90. Rather than speculating without any bearings or actual understanding of what people are referring to here, I'd suggest you to start reading and catch up. Like I've said, I do possess an electronic copy (pdf) of the book, feel free to ask for a share. Erdo first got elected into a national government position back in 2002, KCK/PKK started out as PKK back in 1978 and the string of HDP's predecessors popped up during late 80s. Insterting Erdo into everything as a root cause of all the developments that are being covered here would be a gross oversimplification and dumbing down of the whole context. almighty fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 07:49
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GreyjoyBastard posted:That thumping sound in the distance is my Turkish diplomat buddy slamming her head against a desk. Me and her both.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:49
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Thug Lessons posted:As far as I know no parties are banned but feel free to correct me if you have info suggesting otherwise. What I have actually seen is activity against opponents, more or less all of them aligned with the KDP, in the form of shutting down offices, denying protest permits and arresting organizers if they assemble, etc. The KCK/PKK/PYD obfuscates their non-permissive approach towards credible opposition by mandating any political party to get a license/permit from the PYD. This way, they don't have to ban individual political parties (besides the shell parties they spawn to create an illusion of inclusiveness). All they have to do is to deny it a permit, then they can crackdown on it and argue they lacked licenses/permits.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:53
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Human Grand Prix posted:It's basically true. Yeah, no. It isn't. It's retarded propaganda, custom tailored for the average American who gets his/her information and news from the random, pro-PKK/KCK bot tweep accounts. almighty fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 23:31
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Throatwarbler posted:https://twitter.com/RFS_mediaoffice/status/910537793679560707 'Invade' isn't the verb you should be using. Turkish Land Forces are rolling in as part of an official de-escalation effort, per the framework agreed upon by Syria, Iran, Turkey and Russia.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:34
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Sinteres posted:Turkey definitely looked the other way for quite some time at one point as ISIS used their border at will to smuggle in recruits and weapons, while denying the use of the border to Kurds, so it's more an exaggeration (if you are willing to believe that was the extent of Turkey's complicity) of something that used to be true than false. All factions, including the Kurds (both YPG and KRG Pesh) used the Turkish-Syrian border to smuggle in recruits and weapons, as the border was mostly unsecured and difficult to control. There used to be a massive minefield along the border area, but that was removed after the end of the Cold War. Turkey-Syria border zone was mostly uncontrolled and a nightmare for the Turkish government to manage. Turkey started to invest into seriously to secure control of the entire Syrian border back around 2013 by initiating the the security wall and perimeter project that's supposed to cover the entire border region. The project is reaching completion just about now. By the way, the KRG Pesh enjoyed the usage of the Turkey-Syria with the open approval and the blessing of the Turkish government, along with a few moderate rebel factions that were supported through joint CIA-MIT cells and activities in SE Turkey.
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Sep 24, 2017 15:39
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WarpedNaba posted:Watch as she's magically revealed to be a Gulenist by Turkish media. Quite frankly, you wouldn't know a Gulenist from a Mormon if you ever ran into one. Unless you are Turkish, or you spent a long time living in Turkey, you have no idea who Gulenists are and to what extents they do to seize power in their hands as a creepy religious cult. And no, a Syrian opposition figure has gently caress all to do with Gulen or his cult.
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Sep 24, 2017 15:45
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Cat Mattress posted:So they're scientologists. Yup, they are basically akin to Islamic scientologists, operating like a non-state intelligence agency with specific goals and a clear mandate to overtake the state and the bureaucratic machinery of Turkey. They've been at this since the late 80s.
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Sep 24, 2017 18:48
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Sinteres posted:
Very simple: It's because Erdogan and his party lacks the institutional strength and the base to churn out an ideologically reliable class of officers, civil servants and bureaucrats. AKP, since it's inception back in 2002, has always been a Space Hulk of center-right politics in Turkey: A mish-mash of various different Turkish right-wing cliques, formed around the core of the old 'National Salvation' movment of Necmettin Erbakan fame. Outsiders often don't realise that AKP doesn't have a singular, core ideology and it revolves and maintains around populism. Gulen's cult focuses on education institutions for their recruitment activities and indoctrination. That's why they used to operate schools and other sorts of educational institutions, and still do so overseas. Every student going through these schools is a potential recruit for the sect that they can demand absolute and unquestioning loyalty for Fethullah Gulen, who they actually deem internally as the Abrahamic messiah. Gulen's cult was even conducting mass-scale cheating in Turkish standardised and centralised tests (which are analogous to the American SAT) for the specific purpose of providing an edge for the students they recruited through the educational institutions they owned for university placement and admissions. I remember growing up during the 90s, back when my dad was an active duty Navy officer. My family used to warn me continuously against Gulenists approaching me for recruitment and told me to stay away from them, as Gulenist infiltration and recruitment for putting their people in the Turkish Armed Forces was still a concern back then. Mind you, this was long before AKP even existed. This is basically why AKP basically worked with Gulen's movement in the past. AKP assumed that Gulen's movement could reliably generate an educated, young class which would be ideologically reliable and loyal to the AKP and the center-right conservatism AKP stands for. Needless to say, AKP's assumption turned out to be wrong, and Gulen educated cadres placed their loyalty to the Gulen and his movement first. So, TL;DR is, AKP needed to generate new class of civil servants and officers that they could populate a traditionally very hostile, unwelcoming Turkish state bureaucracy and machinery dominated by secular nationalists towards the kind of politics they represent. They couldn't do it themselves, so they turned to Gulen's cult to provide those people. We all saw how that turned out last year. almighty fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 19:05
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Brother Friendship posted:To be fair Russia staged a photo op (in a hilariously run down office) that featured a map of Kurdistan reaching the sea when they began to make concrete overtures to the Kurds around ~2-3 years ago. It was actually the PYD (YPG, KCK) who originally staged that hilarious photo op.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:51
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Al-Saqr posted:The turks are a bunch of bitch coward pussies
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Sep 25, 2017 21:42
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viral spiral posted:Admitting Turkey into NATO was one hell of a geopolitical blunder. Do you understand what geopolitical means? Can you read a map? Are you aware where Turkey is located, and how that corresponds historically with regards to the Black Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, the Straits, the Soviet Union and now the Russian Federation of the present day?
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Sep 26, 2017 21:03
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Al-Saqr posted:All weapons sent to the middle east (with the exception of Israel) are usually export models that are far inferior than their actual potential and almost always set up to be completely useless other than the purposes they sold for. That's too broad of a generalisation, and needless to say it's inaccurate. Other countries besides Israel also get non-export/monkey models from the US in the region. All Turkish Air Force F-16s (in particular blocks) for instance, are either equivalent of, or better than their USAF counterparts. Likewise, the latest batch of F-15S that the Royal Saudi Air Force has acquired from the United States are actually better equipped than the USAF F-15 Strike Eagles. Actually, the most advanced F-16 variants in the world aren't serving in the USAF. They are in the inventory of the UAE Air Force.
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Oct 6, 2017 18:33
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Saladin Rising posted:Oh that's good to know, I'm glad we're not losing ZDR. Err, no. Those trucks aren't driven by fighters, they are contracted with civilian drivers. Even if the drivers were actualy YPG rank and file, YPG doesn't really have NV gear in meaningful numbers, yet alone the logistics and the training to be able to utilise NV comprehensively and not just for the odd frontline combat team. I mean, these trucks aren't even going close to the frontline with the ISIS anyway.
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Oct 8, 2017 11:57
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CherryCola posted:lol at the dude calling Ocalan a war criminal, like every single leader in the region isn't one right now. It seems you are not really well informed about Abdullah Ocalan. I can probably go on and on about Ocalan and KCK/PKK/YPG for hours, but for now, allow me to give you a preview: "Germany has declared war on PKK. We can fight back. Every Kurd is a potential suicide bomber." - Abdullah Ocalan And here's the personal opinion of Jalal Talabani, recently passed Kurdish leader and the former President of Iraq on Abdullah Ocalan and his organisation, circa the 1990s: "PKK is much hated by the people, Kurdish strugglers." "PKK is basically in Syria, Iraq and Iran too." "If Iran continues to support PKK against the KRG, the fire will engulf them." "PKK leaders are the biggest liars in the history of the Kurdish people." "People are suffering from PKK as they use terrorism against Kurds." "PKK wants to eliminate all other Kurdish parties, worst kind of dictatorship." "PKK killed members for leaving the organization, worst kind of dictatorship." "PKK is killing civilians, incl. teachers, these are crimes." "We asked PKK to end terrorist activities & stop attacking other Kurdish groups." almighty fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 00:08
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Nechirvan Barzani, the nephew of the current president Barzani will take on the position after president Barzani steps down. Nechirvan's a pretty sharp and a Western educated dude, he carries the approval of both Ankara and the DC.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:04
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3peat posted:Saying that PKK are terrorists is like saying the french resistance were terrorists. No, that's retarded. There are no invaders in this case, there certainly are no Nazis. French Resistance did not suicide bomb random football matches and city plazas, execute random Frenchfolk who refused to get involved with violence, or wipe off entire French villages including women, children and even the babies because they did not worship the leader of French Resistance. KCK/PKK did and still does all of the above. Scaramouche posted:But is he elected? How does this stuff work, the impression I get is a mix of tribalism and democracy. Your impression is accurate. He won't be elected for now. Down the line, I suppose they will hold elections to legitimise Nechirvan's succession. almighty fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 02:39
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