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Steven Erikson's The Malazan Book of the Fallen is an epic dark fantasy series that feels a bit like Glenn Cook's The Black Company books, but with the complexity of George R.R. Martin's writing. It's difficult to describe because there isn't really anything like it. They're dark, gritty, and utterly brutal, but they're also pretty funny, and have a huge cast of really lovable characters. The Malazan Empire is basically an overstretched Roman Empire with wizards and explosives. Its emperor has been killed and usurped, its armies are scattered over too large an area, and both its conquered peoples and its armies are a hair away from open revolt. The first book focuses on a city besieged by a Malazan army, following characters both inside the city and out. On the inside it follows bickering nobles and their political intrigues, a drunken dandy, a thief having a moral crisis, and a fat, probably-retarded wizard who can see the future through his dreams. On the outside it follows an army company seemingly sentenced to death, who have become a political inconvenience to their empress, repeatedly sent on whatever mission is most likely to kill them. Also in the mix are an ambitious young noble attempting to quell dissent in the army, a zombie made of dust, and a giant floating mountain that shoots lasers (it can't actually shoot lasers, shut up). The second book is set on the continent of Seven Cities, where a religious uprising called The Whirlwind overthrows Malazan rule and takes power. The book follows the uprising itself, and a desperate general trying to lead a train of refugees across the continent to safety while the rebelling armies hunt them down. A few characters from the first book are also intertwined. From there the plot branches out, forwards and backwards and every which way. You're really starting in the middle of an enormous story, not the start, and you're dropped in headfirst. They don't spend the first book setting the scene and introducing you to characters with long winded exposition to ease you into the world and whatever, the plot just loving starts and you're in it now. This makes the books extremely rereadable, because each time you go through your understanding of the world and the characters is deeper than it was before, and you don't have to trek through the boring explanatory half of the first book each time that's so common with fantasy series. Erikson has trained as both an anthropologist and archaeologist and approaches his story as a history. Ancient cultures and dead races everywhere. Not everyone has the same idea of how a historical event turned out, and you’ll read theories from different points of view and form your own ideas of the what’s what. The magic system in the books is based around "Warrens", which are other dimensions that mages draw their power from. The type of magic will be influenced by the type of place the power is coming from, but these worlds are themselves fleshed out places, which can be travelled to and through, each with their own geography and history. So in addition to following the main world, you're learning about the histories and cultures of the warrens and the relationships between them. The magic isn't an unexplained force of nature, it's a fluid thing that exists in certain ways for certain reasons at certain times, which is a mystery that you'll learn more about as the series goes on. The series is also full of gods and goddesses and ascendants and all sorts of powerful whatsits, each of which are interesting characters in their own right, not just plot devices to drive the stories of the protagonists. Also, you’d better watch out, because this series has UNDEAD SPACE-VELOCIRAPTORS WITH SWORDS FOR ARMS in it. Seriously.  There are ten books in the series. The final book has just been released as I write this. 1. Gardens of the Moon 2. Deadhouse Gates 3. Memories of Ice 4. House of Chains 5. Midnight Tides 6. The Bonehunters 7. Reaper's Gale 8. Toll the Hounds 9. Dust of Dreams 10. The Crippled God If you are a diehard motherfucker, there's also a companion series written by Erikson's friend Ian Cameron Esslemont. It's called "Novels of the Malazan Empire", and will be 5 books long (the entire 15 book arc was planned together, and the stories intertwine). Three are currently finished. All of his books deal with subjects that will be of great interest to you if you're reading Erikson's books, but his writing is just straight up worse. Most people should just read Erikson's 10 books, and if you crave more afterwards, try Esslemont. But if you're so completely suckered in to the universe that nothing will sway you, here is the "recommended" reading order. Gardens of the Moon (Steven Erikson) Deadhouse Gates (Steven Erikson) Memories of Ice (Steven Erikson) House of Chains (Steven Erikson) Midnight Tides (Steven Erikson) Night of Knives (Ian Cameron Esslemont) The Bonehunters (Steven Erikson) Reaper's Gale (Steven Erikson) Return of the Crimson Guard (Ian Cameron Esslemont) Toll the Hounds (Steven Erikson) Dust of Dreams (Steven Erikson) Stonewielder (Ian Cameron Esslemont) The Crippled God (Steven Erikson) Night of Knives sucks, but it's very short. Return of the Crimson Guard and Stonewielder aren't quite as good as an Erikson book, but they're pretty decent in their own right, and still walk all over most of the lovely fantasy out there. Reading them in this order is also a good way to get all the story development, while spacing out the shittier writing. Or, to look at it another way, you get a break from Erikson's excessive philosophizing if it's starting to grate on you by that point. Erikson has also written a series of short novellas, the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach series. These are funny and they sort of own, but they're just short and fun and simple and don't have any bearing on the main story, so they can be read whenever or outright ignored.  FAQ Q: I just started book 4/5. Who are all these new lovely characters? Where are my Bridgeburners? A: These stories will all tie into the existing story awesomely, you just need to give it some time and piece together how it fits in to what you’ve already witnessed. And how DARE you call Karsa lovely, you rear end in a top hat. Q: I heard you were supposed to start on the second book. A: Erikson wrote the first book, then hunted around for a publishing deal for a good ten years, then wrote books 2-10. His writing gets better with every book, but the jump is most noticeable between books 1 and 2 as a result. Some people do recommend that you start at book 2. Books 1, 2, and 5 all start a new major plotline with a new cast of characters, and you could start the series at any of these points, in theory. In practice, it’s probably not a good idea. Though the timelines combine and overlap and jump back and forward, the series is written to be exposed in a certain order, the pieces of the puzzle are supposed to fall in a certain way. Just about everyone in this thread has a different idea of the best or worst book, and I, for example, had my rear end completely kicked by how cool book 1 was, but found book 2 a bit of a struggle. My favourite book is book 4, and that’s the least favourite of plenty of posters in the thread. As everyone has a conflicting opinion, just start at book 1. If you can’t handle the style of storytelling, this series probably isn’t for you. Q: I started reading and I have no idea what's going on. Help! A: As mentioned you're just dropped in to the story headfirst. Try to pay attention as you're reading. This can be an uncomfortable thing for many readers, but try to realize you are not supposed to know or understand everything from the get go. The denial of information to the reader is just as important to a good story as the exposition is, and Erikson is excellent at it. Juaguocio wanted me to add posted:My take on Erikson was always that he expects you've read all his books at all times. When you read book 1, he expects you're read books 2-10, kinda. It sounds retarded, but it makes it infinitely rereadable. Q: I haven’t seen this character for a few books. Who is s/he again? A: For the love of god, don’t google it. Or wikipedia search it. The internet is full of huge awful spoilers, so just ask us: we’re good with spoiler brackets here. If you’re wondering about house placements and things, it’s a good idea to check the appendix at the back of the previous book to avoid spoilers. If you check the back of the book you’re currently reading, it might reveal movements in the houses that will give away plot points. Original Thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2563143   
02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Mar 2, 2011 05:36
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qbert posted:On that note, who's Cartheron Crust again? I recognize the name, but I don't remember the context. Old guard, high fist, member of Kellanved's inner circle. (HoC) "drowned" alongside his brother, Urko. Urko was the guy in the tower who beat up Karsa.
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Mar 2, 2011 06:04
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It looks better that way, you're right. If somebody comes up with a better thread title we can just ask a mod to change it later.
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Mar 2, 2011 07:14
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Just finished Stonewielder. Enjoyed it a bunch, except for Kiska. loving hell. In the first book, you could at least say "oh, she's an inexperienced idiot, that's why she doesn't know anything". But you'd think that someone who had been a claw for many years, and the bodyguard to the most powerful mage in an enormous multicontinental empire, would know some things. Isn't she a mage herself, too? I only vaguely remember. But yeah, she encounters the Liosan and is all like "who are they guys, they look like the tiste edur and the tiste andii except instead of being grey or black they are white! I have no idea!" and then leoman says "well obviously, they're the tiste liosan, you downer." and she says "THE TISTE LIOSAN?!?! ARE THEY SOMEHOW RELATED TO THE TISTE EDUR AND ANDII?!?!?!?!" incredulously. Claws should be savvy! Wizards should be savvy! It's retarded that she is written to be so thick. She also spends the whole book saying "nobody respects me, i'm going to go out there and show them how great i am!" and then gets her rear end brutally kicked again and again, proving that everybody else was right, and she is truly useless. Why anyone would choose her for any kind of quest is utterly beyond me, unless the god in question was hoping for some kind of bumbling idiot sitcom to entertain themselves through the boredom of eternal life. I find it's also kind of hard to remember who is who, because Esslemont's characters don't have memorable personalities like Erikson's do. Other than that though, it was cool, and I'm glad to have read it.
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Mar 3, 2011 01:08
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That isn't too bad. It's hinted at subtly in the first book, and outright explained in the second one.
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Mar 5, 2011 04:21
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NovemberMike posted:Do you mind if I steal the OP for another forum? With credit given of course. Go for it. I stole bits of it from all over the place anyway.
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Mar 6, 2011 12:18
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Evfedu posted:That said, I gave the series up at the end of House of Chains as it was so... meh. Didn't care about Karsa, not bothered about the light/dark mythology & the (non-Ganoes) Paran's were dull. Should probably try to get back into Midnight Tides when I have some more time. The whole fun of Karsa as a character is seeing how he grows. You need to see how horrible he is in the beginning to make his arc more meaningful, I think. I picked up TCG today and I giggled like a schoolgirl when I took it to the counter.
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Mar 7, 2011 03:50
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I can't actually read spoilers tags yet because I'm only half way through, but, topically, Hood appearing out of nowhere and biting a forkrul assail face in half totally owned. The way I picture it in my head, he did it really casually, like taking a bite out of a cheeseburger, and then pausing thoughtfully.
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Mar 15, 2011 02:30
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Stonewielder's about as good as RotCG: It's better written, has fewer awful characters, but it deals with less interesting source material. While the Crimson Guard were already set up as interesting badasses by Erikson, the Korel continent is a bit less exciting. It's definitely worth a read, though, while I wouldn't recommend Night of Knives to my worst enemy.
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Mar 31, 2011 05:39
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I dragged it out as long as I could because I didn't want it to end. Questions: (TCG) Who is Awakening Dawn in the Shake royal house? What is the secret that Shorn/Ruin discuss, the one that Rake kept? Is Tavore the Talonmaster, or merely a member? Other stuff: (TCG) That Pormqual/Blistig thing somebody mentioned was interesting. I think that Blistig's survival is more a part of Tavore's story than anybody else's: the only soldier who refuses to die at her command, she managed to navigate him through alive. If you follow the Pormqual thing further, it's like, here is one general who will kill all his soldiers for no reason at all, but with Tavore, here is a general who will send all of her soldiers to certain death and somehow get them through. Blistig's found himself a more worthy commander. Also, I liked that one of the dragons chained to Ruin's sword was named Kalse. That means that every KCCM spire is named after and probably modelled on one specific dragon that they liked.
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Mar 31, 2011 16:23
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HampHamp posted:One thing I'm still not sure about after all these re-reads - who (or what) the hell is Edgewalker? Whole series spoilers:He tried and failed to usurp the throne of shadow, and became bound to it, sort of like the guardian of an azath house. That's why Shadowthrone gives him poo poo. Edgewalker, Telorast and Curdle all tried and failed and are bound to it. Telorast and Curdle are in Edgewalker's "employ". It seems like Tulas Shorn successfully claimed the throne for a time, and then lost it (he claims to have created the hounds). The specifics of how it works are never explained, but they give you the vibe of it in Night of Knives. Edgewalker's often confused for a T'lan Imass so he was probably either Imass or human.
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Apr 4, 2011 05:49
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I think Icarium's pretty central to the heart of the series, but I couldn't tell you why. He was far from my favourite character, but something about the brutality of the cycles of history. Like, history is brutal and doomed to repeat itself, but humanity can break the cycles and improve the world if they put their heart into it. That's the vibe I got from the whole thing.
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May 30, 2011 02:03
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I enjoyed reading Esslemont even though he was obviously an inferior writer, just because after six months of reading Erikson I was getting a bit of sick of his meandering philosophical rants. About the point where I really couldn't hack it anymore was at the start of Reaper's Gale when the goddamn jailhouse torturer started debating the finer points of how we perceive reality with his torture-victim, and it was starting to enrage me how monumentally stupid that was. Then after taking a break to read Return of the Crimson Guard, I was refreshed and ready to tackle him again, having had a break from his style. Even though it's simpler, plainer fantasy, and there are some annoying characters, by the point where you start reading Esslemont, you'll already be deeply obsessed with the world because you'll be about five books deep into Erikson, and you'll enjoy getting every little extra clue/tidbit of information/piece of history you can. Also, it should be pointed out that while Night of Knives is kind of a piece of poo poo, it's pretty short, and his other books are a lot stronger.
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Sep 12, 2011 02:14
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My take on Erikson was always that he expects you've read all his books at all times. When you read book 1, he expects you're read books 2-10, kinda. It sounds retarded, but it makes it infinitely rereadable. Personally, I enjoy not being spoonfed a series of scenes carefully designed to let the audience get to like and sympathise with a character before the story starts. Have you ever re-read a series and found it less enjoyable because the first half of the first book is just explaining to you the basics of how the world works and which country is which and who each character is and why he's a good guy and why she's a bad guy? I used to enjoy Robin Hobb when I was in highschool, but I now find it unbearable poo poo, mostly for this reason. I already know all that stuff, why do I have to read 500 pages before I can get into, you know, the story? It's definitely an important part of the craft of writing if your goal is to make it a smooth ride for everybody who picks it up, but it can also make the introduction exceedingly dull. Sometimes you just want something that just fucks with convention for the fun of it. It's refreshing. Game of Thrones is a good example of another book where important poo poo is happening from page 1. So's Shadow of the Torturer, though both of those are better written than Gardens of the Moon. I think Erikson will always be a divisive writer. Some people go in expecting something specific and get let down. I just love it because I'm so sick of fantasy. It reignites all the things I loved about fantasy as a child while removing all the things that I'm fed up with.
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Sep 18, 2011 14:13
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That scene in Deadhouse Gates on the boat gets explained piece by piece in books 4, 5 and 7 if I recall correctly. You're supposed to be thinking "what the hell?" but little bits of context appear eventually.
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Sep 28, 2011 13:52
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Maybe the Tiste Andii will be really arrogant instead of emo. That'd be cool.
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Oct 4, 2011 00:28
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Juaguocio posted:I can't think of a better way to explain the confusion of book 1 to new readers. I AM THE ONE WITH THE BAD NAME WHO RANTS ABOUT WIZARD BOOKS. (added that to the OP) wellwhoopdedooo posted:how the gently caress is this empire basically taking over the whole world when as far as I can tell they're just a bunch of schmoes somehow wading through the blood of legends. Everyone in the Malazan world has swords and magic, but the Moranth munitions turn them from a bunch of fuckups into a bunch of really dangerous fuckups. It's like if you went back in time and gave the Roman Empire a bunch of AK-47s, and then you watch how well those loving Huns do.
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Oct 22, 2011 03:28
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savinhill posted:Try the Prince of Nothing series by R Scott Bakker. I like it just as much as Malazan and for a lot of the same reasons. Counterpoint: I thought Bakker was boring and frustratingly written, and I hated nearly all of the POV characters. He feels a bit like he's trying to be Erikson, and the writing feels tighter and more focused, but he's also completely missing the things that make Erikson fun to read, like an interesting story. It reeeeeally drags at points.
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Dec 12, 2011 05:42
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:More art from the special edition Deadhouse Gates. Olar Ethil from the silanda is definitely my favourite. 1. These are all completely awesome. 2. Who is the second one? Felisin? Apsalar? 3. whole series spoilers Olar Ethil was the dragon in Deadhouse Gates? How did you work that out? I'm only vaguely remembering the scene, that's the dragon that accidentally drags them through a few warrens or something including Tellann?
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Dec 21, 2011 02:09
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pile of brown posted:I know it's all spergy and nerdy but why would they draw Icarium's sword like that when it's described as a "single-edged blade" a hundred times per novel? I think Tulas Shorn only escaped Hood's realm at the same time as Cartographer, when the trade guild busted through.
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Dec 24, 2011 05:43
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Tattersail's POV chapters in Gardens of the Moon are strange. The way she describes magic in general feels very different to the way it's described by everybody else in the series.
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Dec 28, 2011 06:40
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They're very different books. I loved both but a lot of people consider Deadhouse Gates to be a big step up in terms of overall quality.
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Dec 29, 2011 08:29
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I remember what the deal is with Heboric losing his hands, but I don't remember where the spoiler is from, so read at your peril I guess: It was something like this. The priests of Fener would cut the hands off criminals and heathens and whatever, and sacrifice them to Fener, and they would pile up in heaps underneath him or something. Heboric was an honest priest and carried out the will of Fener dutifully, but the other priests in the cult were corrupt and politically driven, and they had Heboric behanded and cast out of the priesthood for their own ambitions. Having Heboric's hands in the pile was poisoning Fener, because he had the hands of his honest servant among all the criminals and scum. It's something like this, anyway. If Heboric was truly Fener's destriant (I don't remember), then that makes even more sense. It'd be like crucifying the Pope to gain political favour in the catholic church.
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Jan 21, 2012 07:36
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Junk Science posted:It's actually given away in GotM or DHG as a throwaway line. So not technically a spoiler, but he's Dassem. They confirm it at the start of Toll the Hounds, too. That was when I picked it up.
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Apr 2, 2012 06:43
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Yeah I read books. posted:Okay, sorry I'm plaguing you guys with questions, but I have a rather specific one about House of Chains that might not be answerable without spoiling stuff - Shadowthrone and Cotillion were just talking on the drifting isle about the guy Traveller, and mentioned he's Dal Honese, and the Aspalar was saying he was someone who was with them at the beginning...I went back to where Admiral Nok was talking to Tavore, and he was bringing up people, and the only one mentioned as being specifically as a Dal Honese is someone named Dassem Ultor. So is that who Traveller is, and if so, who is he and what is his significance? 1. Yes, that's Dassem. You'll find out his significance later. 2. That's Urko Crust, his brother.
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May 14, 2012 08:02
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Yeah I read books. posted:Can someone please assure me that Reaper's Gale will get better? I just started book 2 and it feels like I've hit my first actually wall with the series. I was seriously tearing them up and now I just pick RG up to read for 5 - 10 minutes and can't get any further. Is this just me? I don't know what it is, but it just seems kind of different from what I'm used to, if that makes any sense. I struggled through the first part of Reaper's Gale, but there's a point where poo poo gets real and it becomes a great read. The bit that got me was the jailors discussing philosophy. By that point in the series it's all anybody at any level of society discusses. "So I was just torturing this woman to death and I was suddenly struck by the realization that Jean-Paul Sartre's famous trilogy 'Rues à Liberté is an allegory of man's search for commitment." But yes, there's a point where the book redeems itself and it's a fun read from there on in. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 29, 2012 |
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Jun 29, 2012 03:30
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It needs the quote to go with it.
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Aug 28, 2012 05:15
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That gets settled in Reaper's Gale, I think.
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Aug 31, 2012 05:27
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zzttaozia posted:One question though, are the excavations that Karos Invactad is doing important to the story in anyway? I find myself just glancing over them whenever they've come up, just wondering if I should pay a bit more attention or not. Kind of. (RG partial spoiler)They're important to Icarium's backstory.
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Sep 24, 2012 12:55
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Azathoth posted:At what point does he continue telling the story of existing characters and stop introducing a whole new cast for each book? When do we get to see these characters running into each other? Book 6 is where it all starts rolling together. 5 is the last book where you'll be bewildered by a completely new cast, and the Malazan army from book 4 will stick around for a long time.
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Dec 1, 2012 12:39
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Tomorrow I can afford to either buy Orb Sceptre Throne and Forge of Darkness, or I can afford to buy the two latest Abercrombie books (Heroes and whatever the new one is called). Guide my hand, nerds.
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Dec 13, 2012 04:48
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Heroes and Forge it is, thanks guys.
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Dec 14, 2012 00:05
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So wait, is Esslemont's series finished now?
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Dec 28, 2012 13:16
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Yeah, it's a series where you flick back through the pages a lot. The cast swells to somewhere between 500 and 1000 characters by the end and he regularly writes sections in intentionally cryptic ways. I couldn't have handled it in audiobook format, and I loved it.
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Jan 7, 2013 10:31
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I'm about half way through Forge of Darkness, and I've got to say, I love that all of these forgettable minor Tiste characters are going to actually be memorable on my next readthrough of the ten book series. I feel like it's going to really add a dimension to it, and make their arcs meaningful. CORN NOG posted:Speaking of which, should I know by this point what was up with Heboric and the giant green statues? I vaguely remember something about them coming from wherever the Crippled God came from, but other than that I have no idea how they're supposed to tie in to things, or what's up with the people inside them, or how touching the statue gave Heboric hands, or anything really. Did I overlook something, or does it just not get explained until later? I don't remember where the explanations are, so this might be a spoiler for you, but my understanding was something like those are the Crippled God's worshippers from his own world, coming to try and save him. When he touched the buried statue Heboric accidentally triggered them to come looking for him in greater numbers. That's probably as far as I can go, that plotline is still going in book 10. Now that I think about it, I've never read a really good explanation of the entire Heboric/Statues/Fener/Ghost Hands plotline. It'd be cool if somebody with a few more rereads under their belt attempted one.
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Jan 24, 2013 12:05
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polyfractal posted:I always assumed it had something to do with Paran being the Master of the Deck. E.g. he decided he was tired of the Crippled God's poo poo so hatched a plan with his sister to work it all out. Then again, I remember passages saying that Paran and Tavore never communicated, so I really have no idea if that theory holds weight. (TCG)It seems like Shadowthrone and Cotillion were heavily involved all along too, so maybe they were in cahoots with Tavore. What do we really know about her, anyway? Her girlfriend turned out to be a random pre-humanity goddess? What was the eres'al up to?
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Jan 31, 2013 09:44
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Dalmuti posted:Caladan Brood's album is pretty groovy if you like your metal black http://caladanbrood.bandcamp.com/ The synth is really cheesy but otherwise this is decent. Has a little bit of Windir in it. I'm pretty ashamed to be listening to it, though. I feel like there are much cooler band names available in these books, though. As if you wouldn't call your metal band Bonecaster. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 23:51
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ed balls balls man posted:Its really not. If he's a Talon, he doesn't know that he's a Talon in Gardens of the Moon. So between Gardens of the Moon and The Crippled God, he's done decades of secret training in spycraft and assassination under Emperor Kellanved?
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Feb 21, 2013 11:46
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It is kind of daunting to re-read this series because it takes up two entire levels on my bookshelves. But it must be done. Goodbye, six months!
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Mar 4, 2013 12:44
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I just finished rereading Deadhouse Gates and I enjoyed everything except the Chain of Dogs. The most interesting parts to me were the Silanda and the Kalam/Pearl story. Gardens of the Moon interested me right from the start. It's weird how this series divides people, even those who love the series seem to have completely opposing favourites. I liked House of Chains the best, it seems to be the least favoured of most of you.
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Apr 5, 2013 00:57
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