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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Mak0rz posted:

Ack, before the last thread ended I was complaining about music and someone posted a couple of handy links leading to Doom 1 music projects and the old thread is completely lost. I never bothered with the links because it was kind of late and unbookmarked the thread without thinking.

Can anyone repost them?

http://www.sirgalahad.org/paul/doom/ Doom 1 and 2 using MIDI synthesizers and instruments like would be used for a band instead of the crappy MIDI synth in your cheap sound card.

http://www.skulltag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28330 Remastered DOOM 1 music

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Purple D. Link posted:

This right here is how I first started playing Doom mods and 2.5D shooters in general, back in 2008. Good times. I still don't own the actual Doom games though. I hope Steam really does get a Summer sale and the Doom pack gets reduced.

Get the iD Super Pack for $69.99.

That gets you:
The Ultimate Doom
Doom II
Master Levels for Doom II
Final Doom
Doom 3
Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders
Hexen: Beyond Heretic
Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel
Commander Keen (all five episodes from Invasion of the Vorticons and Goodbye Galaxy!)
Hexen II
Quake
Quake Mission Pack 1: Scourge of Armagon
Quake Mission Pack 2: Dissolution of Eternity
Quake II
Quake II Mission Pack 1: The Reckoning
Quake II Mission Pack 2: Ground Zero
Quake III Arena
Quake III Team Arena
Wolfenstein 3D (including The Nocturnal Missions)
Spear of Destiny (including the "lost episodes" Return to Danger and Ultimate Challenge)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein

If you were to buy all this back when it came out that would seriously cost something like $900.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Purple D. Link posted:

I really just want Doom and maybe the Heretic/Hexen collection though. I already own Quake 1 and the expansions, I don't really care to own Quake II that much, and I get my Quake III fix from Quake Live. I like Wolfenstein fine but it's low priority. Plus I'm trying to save money right now and don't want to spend maybe more than $20 if a sale starts.

Well then there's the DOOM Pack Complete for $34.99 (Includes: The Ultimate Doom, Final DOOM, DOOM II, DOOM 3, DOOM 3 Resurrection of Evil, Master Levels for Doom II ) or just buying Ultimate Doom and Doom II separate for $10 each.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Does anyone know where I can get a program like this http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=1329 but with a GUI? Basically, you use it to smush together a bunch of random wads into a megawad, it allows you to change their exmx or mapxx location so they don't conflict - but being a dos program from 1995 you have to do this all on the command line and it doesn't like non-8.3 file names.

I'd like a program like this, but has a file browser to select all the files and a gui for reordering the map numbers.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Vertigus posted:

You can use this: http://slade.mancubus.net/

It won't automate the process for you but it should be as easy as renaming the MAPXX markers.

Yeah I was kind of hoping for a utility that would just do the map stuff automatically.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Chinook posted:

Also, I think it would be cool if I could find a list of goals for Doom (like achievements); sort of a "Doom 101". "Complete E1M5 (or whatever) with a pistol start." Beginner, intermediate, and advanced goals.

Use the acheivements from the Xbox 360 Arcade version~!

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/doom/achievements/
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/doom-ii/achievements/

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Is 10x supposed to make it so imp fireballs pass right through imps in their way? That's kind of annoying.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Cubemario posted:

So I'm showing appreciation for the classics but I have a screen warping/fisheye problem and changing the FOV or aspect ratio does not seem to solve it. I am playing ultimate doom and using zdoom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZIwaweAdsA

It's very disorienting and makes this game not enjoyable, please help.

Doom wasn't designed for you to look up/down, the core rendering engine can only handle it through hacks. Some source ports completely rewrite it to have proper looking tho.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Chinese Tony Danza posted:

So, I finally got a chance to download Unreal Gold today along with a bunch of other games I got during Steam's Summer Camp sale, (Deus Ex: GOTY and iD Super Pack included) and I'm really enjoying revisiting it. However, I noticed something odd. Earlier in the thread, somebody mentioned this, a DirectX 10 renderer for Unreal Gold and Deus Ex. The problem is that it apparently only works with Vista or higher. Being on XP, is there any imaginable way to get this to work? As it is, it doesn't crash as it says it should but instead seems to launch into software mode instead.

The renderer source code is available, so if nothing else, would it be possible to compile a version to run in XP?

Eh, doesn't the game itself run fine in XP? Why do you want to run a DirectX 10 renderer for it when you probably don't have a DirectX 10 card and in an OS that will never support DirectX 10?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Vinlaen posted:

I'm fairly certain that I already know the answer but...

How does Half-Life hold up with today's games? I've never played all the way through the original Half-Life... However I did beat Half-Life 2 (and episodes 1 and 2)

Also, is "Half-Life" or "Half-Life: Source" the correct version to play? Are there any texture improvements mods or anything? (or should I play vanilla to get the original feel maybe, hmmm...)

Half-Life has a pretty decent story and in my opinion excellent level design. I think Half Life Source has some slightly better handling of widescreen but that's about it.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

microwave casserole posted:

I don't recommend the HD models. The original scientists and Barneys have a great style to them, while the HD versions are boringly realistic.

Also, I'd go with the original engine over Source. They changed the machine gun so that your view shakes all over the place while you fire it, and the visual improvements aren't that big of a change.

I always find it hilarious that they get called the HD model pack (although yes they are higher definition than the stock) considering they were developed to be used in the Dreamcast version.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Purple D. Link posted:

Have you tried GZDoom? You can play the Doom engine games in 16:9 in that (go to "set video mode" in the options.) I don't know if that's an option in ZDoom since I've never used it.

EDIT: Never mind about GZDoom, I just tried ZDoom. Just go to "set video mode" in ZDoom and set the aspect ratio to 16:9 or 16:10.

Don't forget that the pixel resolution of Doom's original version was 16:10 although displayed stretched at 4:3.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

tooooooo bad posted:

Pretty sure people on Doomworld literally hate fun.

Aeons of death sucks. Hope this helps.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Vaos posted:

Take note of which version of z/gzdoom/Skulltag you are using for demos, since they will not work on any other version. This also applies to saves.

This reminds me, is anyone aware of a nice front end for playing back doom.exe/doom2.exe compatible demos in a compatibility-focussed source port like PRBOOM+ or Chocolate Doom? When I was running Windows XP I managed to properly associate demo .lmps with PRBOOM+ for that, but can't figure out how to do it properly in Windows 7. And ZDL which I normally use as a launcher doesn't seem to have any way to autostart a demo when loaded.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

SavageMessiah posted:

QLZD should do it, just add the lmp to the file list. You may need to set the compat flags in the little command line box though. I just tried a plutonia speed run demo with prboom+ and it worked a peach.

I can't find this QLZD thing, do you have a link?

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Wad making protip: stick to making vanilla compatible wads first. The limitations ain't that bad, and it'll keep you from getting carried away on early projects.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Wamdoodle posted:

Once you buy a game, it's yours. I don't think they remove anything at all once it's in your library.

Yeah I have a few delisted games, and games that were delisted and then brought back

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
I use a Logitech M570 wireless trackball because it's real comfortable and is convenient to use with my laptop on a lap desk. It's got an optical sensor just like trackballs have been suing for a while now.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Incidentally, if you end up with carpal tunnel issues or just plain your hand gets sore while using the mouse, they make "vertical" mice like these that are really comfortable and easily sub 50 bucks:

http://www.amazon.com/Anker%C2%AE-Ergonomic-Optical-Vertical-Buttons/dp/B00FPAVUHC

That one is like 15 bucks and I use it when I need a full on mouse for a thing.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Obeast posted:

With all this trackball talk, I'm kinda sad that nobody ever brings up the thumbball setup where you move the ball with your thumb. I posted about this one in particular before way earlier this year, but this has been my mouse since probably the early-mid 2000s, and it's seen me through more than a few FPSes using inverted y-axis because that's how the cool dudes roll (although I admit to using non-inverted camera controls when using a gamepad for some odd reason that I can't even explain aside from that it feels more comfortable to me :confused: ).


It's still working to this day between many computers, Windows installs/upgrades, and I don't see it dying anytime soon (which I hope never happens since Microsoft appeared to stopped making these a while back and getting a replacement seems kinda expensive if the Amazon listings are any indication :ohdear: ).


My trackball has about the same placement:



And it's only $27 new or $17 used on Amazon (the Logitech M570). So if yours ever breaks, consider this, or the wired version which is the same molding and a usb cable out the front.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Luigi Thirty posted:

I think there's a detailed explanation a couple hundred pages back about why the Amiga memory architecture meant it was completely unsuitable for 2.5D engines. I'm not an Amiga expert but I think the gist of it was that VGA mode 13h (the 320x200 graphics mode that basically every game ever made used) lets you directly access the VGA framebuffer memory, each pixel of the screen being accessed sequentially. By the time 486s were around, memory reads and writes were fast enough to do something like Doom at 30FPS on standard hardware.

No Amiga graphics chipset supported that graphics mode, instead you had to manipulate lots of different memory locations (bitplanes) to set a pixel. This makes it good at doing 2D color graphics cheaply on lovely hardware (the blitter is very good at drawing lines, not so good at much else) but also made it incredibly slow to do things like drawing texture-mapped polygons. The ST lacked a blitter until later in its lifecycle and it was much more primitive than the Amiga blitter when it did get one.

The biggest thing you forgot to mention is that consoles dating back to the Fairchild Channel F (out slightly before the 2600) and extending up to the 32/64 BIT era had explicit support for sprites. This also included the Amiga and Atari ST and several other home computers of the pre-PC-dominance Era (don't remember if the Apple II had it, but Commodore 64, Atari 400/800, and several of those weird Europe systems did).

Having explicit sprite support was important for 2d games because it made handling character motion a lot less processing intensive, and could work really well with background graphics for scrolling. But it turned out near useless for anything 2.5d or full 3d,even though many of both used sprites and scaling/rotating them for many effects on the PC.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
I can say for sure that HL1/Quake 1 era PC games have aged a shitload better than their corresponding console games, in large part because even your SiN and Half-Life will scale ok up to the 4:3 versions of modern resolutions, even if they won't fill the screen, instead of having horrible texture/vertex problems that really show on a modern size display like console FPSes and games in general of the time do.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
There's also that even if the actual games plain vanilla look pretty bad now, they still have mods or even ports that can easily get them up to par with early 2000s stuff. not even like HD texture pack stuff but just things that correct rendering at high resolutions, fix things to support 16:9/16:10 and so on.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Honestly Half Life 1's least pleasant part to play these days is the alien world parts. I find the Black Mesa parts to be pretty great but the Xen stuff is just blugh. It really feels dated, and I usually just skip it when I replay HL1.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Something like 15 700 MB CDs would be enough to hold the entirety of the idgames archive's stock of Doom and Doom II levels that aren't multiplayer only.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Pope Guilty posted:

I installed the latest driver only to have the computer abruptly completely power down during installation. When I turned it back on, the screen wouldn't turn on, which kept happening, so I plugged it in via VGA cable to my TV... which didn't work, but did somehow cause the screen to start working again. Now I get an error message when I boot but Turok works, so... call it a wash, I guess.

What's your specific CPU? You said "2 core 2 ghz intel" earlier but that's not really clear enough and knowing the actual model could help solve things.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Segmentation Fault posted:

So if you can't buy Duke stuff on GoG or Steam, where can you buy it? Can you buy it at all after January 1st?

After the rights stuff changes, it'll probably go back up on both. But if you for some reason don't already have any of that, no time like now to grab it, unless you're really into making sure Gearbox gets the money by buying in 2016.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
I like to play Doom with bex and zdoom patch files that allow you to have a max inventory of 100,000 of each type of ammo, and max health/armor each up to 99,999, and to have armor and health stuff stack at the full value instead of only taking you back up to 100 or 200.

Some megawads will end you up with thousands of rounds left in multiple ammo slots, because of no longer losing out on a full ammo pickup due to being near the limit, it's a really wild change in balance.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Luigi Thirty posted:

Don't older (blue!) CD-Rs have a considerably shorter shelf life than pressed CDs due to the dye layer breaking down? I thought that's what people meant by a CD will only last 10 years.

Yes many CD-Rs have lovely shelf life, but there have also been plenty of pressed discs that were manufactured poorly, allowing the disc to easily develop a crack in such a way that air can get in and gently caress up the reflectivity. (Incidentally there's plenty of early "bad" CD-R types that never the less have held data for as much as 20 years just fine, the rate at which any given disc will get ruined seems to be completely random, even though most trend to dying in a few days)

An interesting property of pressed discs though, is that even a hosed up disc that no longer reflects properly for a standard drive to read it? It can still have the data extracted by painstaking 3d scanning (since the physical pits and lands still exist).

Colon Semicolon posted:

Or you're smart and already have physical copies, then don't even worry about it.

Remember back in the day when they projected a CD would only last about 5-8 years? Yeah, never had a disc straight up die on me before, so don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

You do realize that "no longer available for future sale" doesn't mean "you can't download it again", right? Especially so for the GOG release because they have zero DRM.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Pope Guilty posted:

Is there any particular reason to use freedoom instead of a proper iwad?

1) Because you're aiming to sell a game running on the DOOM engine, but don't hae the time to cover over all assets - you may use FREEDOOM's IWAD to fill out all the stuff your new game didn't need new things for.

2) Because you haven't bought a DOOM game, but still feel like you really need to give Zenimax money if you're going to get the real Doom IWADs, so you play modern maps with FREEDOOM.

3) There's like a few dozen WADs out there that actually look best with Freedoom's texture set, so with real Doom IWADs they look worse (though many of them include all the freedoom textures they want in the wad anyway, making it a moot point).

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

The Kins posted:

Remember: Doom editors were less intuitive at the time. We're spoiled now.

Eh I don't really think so. They were pretty decent by the time Duke 3D was around in 1996. A lot of things were tedious chores to do, but they were intuitive. Kinda like washing a stack of dishes that are barely dirty - easy as hell, but time consuming.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

SO DEMANDING posted:

Friend of mine is having a LAN party and I figured we'd give Doom a shot, but holy hell there's just so much goddamn content out there it's kind of overwhelming...any recommendations for multiplayer maps? Deathmatch, coop, whatever.

Honestly? Go on the /idgames archive, go to the multiplayer category, sort by rating, and pick a random high rated one.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
If I wanted super simplified silhouettes I'd be playing tf2. Doom was never about minimal detail, except where absolutely necessary to run on a freaking 386 at 20 mhz, a chip from 1987, 6 years before doom was released.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Woolie Wool posted:

The bold and distinctive silhouettes of monsters were absolutely a part of Doom's gameplay appeal (and are actually much simpler than TF2's). Everything about Doom is instantly readable--you can tell at a glance, in an instant, exactly how many monsters you're facing, what sort of monsters they are, what they're doing, and what they will do in the next couple of seconds. You can't do that with most modern FPS games, the graphics are too busy and fuzzed over with postprocessing and overwrought lighting effects--except in TF2, because TF2 had readability built into its design. Telling you the state of the game is more important for a game like Doom than looking pretty.

Everything about doom is instantly readable, but only after you've played quite a bit and got used to everything. Just like call of duty or any other modern popular shooter.

The silhouettes are only distinctive in doom because sprites are effectively textured silhouettes - if they were full polygonal models of just a few years later they'd look much more samey. And don't forget there are 4 monsters out of about 15 nonboss monsters that are effectively palette and minor sprite swaps of other ones : spectre, hell Knight, shotgun guy, pain elemental.

Obsessing over tf2 "readability" is silly. Most games shouldn't be tf2,its loving boring.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong
Here is an excellent snapshot of early internet doom fansites:
http://www.reocities.com/~lottus/Doom.html

Note the choice of downloads. If you go back to the main page the same guy also has stuff on Quake and Duke 3D.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

They were both designing social games during the big social game boom of five or so years ago; they formed a company together called Loot Drop and made a few more (including a Ghost Recon game) and I guess they're good at it because their games still make money when it seems like every other social game dies on the vine.

One thing they've managed to do that keeps them in reliable income is that their mobile games don't try to rely on suddenly getting everyone int he world to play them, the way other companies that have flamed out like Zynga did. Their games are comfortably profitable even with a relatively small number of players, and that means they don't end up in the "year or two of massive profits, then nothing major ever again" thing which drives companies to have to hire and then fire a lot of people to stay running.

I suppose ol' John learned something from Daikatana's development after all. :v:

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Lork posted:

On a lark, I decided to try out SiN for the first time since I own it on GoG for some reason. 3 levels in and so far the idea that this game was supposed to be a serious competitor to Half-Life is hilarious in retrospect.

Do keep in mind that the levels and objectives you face in a single play through depend on how you complete earlier levels!

Next time you play it, try blowing up the things on the bank roofs and shooting down the billboards - that is if you didn't do so your first time through.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Lork posted:

I shot a few holes in the roof but didn't notice any billboards and couldn't figure out how to save the cops.

One weird thing that sticks out is that certain aspects of the game are giving me serious Deus Ex vibes. Something about Hardcorps headquarters just screamed "UNATCO" to me, even before I saw the usable computers or the utility bot that fixes the lights. Then in the actual game, the objective system and the way it's displayed, the turrets that you could turn on or off with computers, the bums in the subway, the way the lab looks, JC Armack in your ear... Was there any overlap between Ritual and Ion Storm?

To save the cops you've got to be real quick to take down the guys on the roofs. The billboard you can shoot down is way above the glass skylight into the lobby area, on some other buildings - if you shoot it with the helicopter gun it'll fall over and through the skylight and cause an interesting effect for the start of the bank level. And just in general, and I hope it's not too spoilerly, if you complete as many secondary objectives as possible and avoid failing and thus changing primary objectives, the level path you get sent on generally gets easier although you can have to do more work to stay on the easier path.

There's an entire sewer/water treatment area where depending on how you completed previous levels, you either don't do at all (because you can take an alternate path), you only do a small bit on the way to the next level, or you gently caress up and need to go through a lot more. You can also avoid entering a later level with enemies on full alert by doing certain things in preceding levels.

There wasn't much overlap with Ion Storm, but the same guy did a large chunk of the mapping for Duke Nukem 3D and SiN. Ino Storm and Ritual were both headquartered in Dallas in 1996 though.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

laserghost posted:

I remember reading in magazines that Ritual was supposed to be staffed with Doom/Quake fans with some prior experience with mapping and modding, and the whole game is littered with references to obscure clans and people from the scene. Cute if true.

Yeah it definitely has that in there. Including some of the people in the "accounts" you can look at in the bank level.

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Keiya posted:

Oh my god I remember this.

... and the guy still wants twenty bucks for the full version, geeze... I'd throw five bucks his way but that's a bit high.

I doubt the guy has bothered to revise the price blurb in the unauthorized rehosted download site.

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