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SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

VelociBacon posted:

I don't have any single cup brewing system and normally drink espresso. I've been considering getting a v60 or a chemex or an aeropress or something but haven't pulled the trigger. If you're brewing single cup, what would you prefer? How are the results different? I know you can make a lot more volume with the chemex than either of the more traditional single cup methods.

I'd be getting another grinder for this also, probably the ode fellow or whatever unless something else at that price point can compete.

Thanks!

I have used a Bee House ceramic #4 dripper and a Hario glass pitcher to brew a two-cup-at-a-time pourover batch every morning for a long time and it gets the job done very well, surprisingly. The V60 has always been more finnicky in my limited experience just due to how the water flows through the funnel, but is still a good option. I have used Chemex pitchers and honestly the biggest difference I've noticed is how little body the final cup has. Those Chemex filters are very thick and suck most of the oil out of the cup, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but can be a matter of personal preference. I mostly drink lighter roasts, though, so take that for what it's worth.

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SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

I've only ever lurked this thread but I made the stupid mistake of asking goons in a slack last week about a grinder recommendation since my Cuisinart burr grinder poo poo the bed.

Now I have a Capresso Infinity, Timemore C2, two pounds of green beans, a popcorn popper, have watched about half of James Hoffmann's content, and have been furiously working on my one cup game with the aeropress and moka pot several times daily. I'm dangerously close to getting a digital thermometer.

Enjoy the journey! After a couple years of home roasting and drinking my own roasts, I realized I loved it so much that I wanted to expand and learn more. I ended up investing in an Aillio Bullet and haven't regretted a thing. Now I get to roast big batches for friends and family and also make some money on the side. It's a rabbit hole, for sure!

Btw, another really great resource are Scott Rao's books on roasting and being a professional barista, in case you're hungry for more info.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

Nice, thanks for the recommendation. I'm a ~scientist~ so I'm going at this with a pretty systematic approach. I did 4 roast levels of a Colombian Huila the other night and 3 roasts of Costa Rican Candelilla. Pretty sure I over roasted most of the Huila, as the longest three of them ranged from "this is coffee" to "toasty water." The Candelilla came out better. It's a more delicate bean in comparison and the first crack was barely noticeable. The shortest roast of that variety is definitely too short, but the longest which is only 3 minutes more than the shortest, is really good.

The Sweet Maria guy Byron (?) makes it sound like these should only be taking around 10 minutes per batch, so I'll run another few batches tonight with an eye on temperature and time.

I'm also trying to learn to drink lighter roasts. Seems like usually at the shops I go to, lighter roasts are just way too astringent to my tongue. The (successful) ones I've roasted and brewed at home are much nicer. I'm doing all my testing with the Timemore C2 and aeropress and a strict 12g:200g immersion.

I think, given your approach, you'd really appreciate Rao's books, then. He definitely tries to nail more of the science behind the processes and explains why things happen, which I think is cool. I'm mostly just a lucky dumbass who got very interested in roasting since coffee is life, and so I tried to learn what I could and document a ton early on. I still have a ton to learn but people really seem to like my coffee, so I keep roasting, I guess! It sounds like you're already finding luck with your approach, so that's definitely exciting. Dialing in what you enjoy and finding your groove is so loving satisfying. My wife doesn't even bother going out for coffee anymore since we can make it better at home (sometimes).

If you are interested in trying lighter roasts, I've always been a fan of Papua New Guinea beans as an origin (I'm not good enough to taste elevation and soil terroir but PNG as a whole has seemed to be fairly consistent, so you probably can't go wrong). Not only is PNG a bit milder in my experience and less astringent and bright than some of the more popular African beans (Yirgacheffe comes to mind), but it's pretty forgiving in terms of roast levels. It's just a really drinkable coffee. Maybe you'd enjoy it, too!

I really need to jump on the aeropress train, though... That poo poo seems pretty cash.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

Sweet, thanks for the encouragement, tips and recommendations. I'll look Rao up.

I got my beans from Happy Mug, and they've got a huge variety. Next time I order I'll probably branch out a bit. I want to achieve a good dark roast, but everything I'm watching and reading points to lighter roasts having more flavor and complexity. PNG sounds like a good region to try for that.

Re: Aeropress, they're really good. The original holds exactly 12g coffee and 200g water. Hoffmann's ultimate technique is what I've started using. That is, 12g coffee in, 200g water in, as quickly as possible, swirl/stir, then get the plunger on so as little as possible filters out, steep for however long (he says best flavor is 4ish minutes and up I think), then press really slowly.
I've always really liked good coffee before my latest level up of nerding over it, and the Aeropress has been one of my favorite methods for a few years now. Just kind of a bonus that I apparently had one of the better tools for making a consistent one cup. It makes replication and experimentation very easy. Plus it's primo for traveling and camping.

Ooh, I've always used Sweet Marias and Coffee Shrub for my bulk purchases. I'm always interested in trying alternative storefronts. Thanks for the recommendation!

I'm always looking for better camping coffee equipment. I'm using a glass french press so I play a dangerous game. Might be time to check out the aeropress XL...

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

I hope this isn't a question asked too often (so feel free to berate me if it is), but is there ACTUALLY a grinder that can do a good job of running the gamut of different grinds from French press coarse to espresso (or, dare I dream, Turkish) fine? When I was first shopping ages ago, my Virtuoso was billed as being a solid choice for most grinds, but not so much for espresso shots. I desperately want to get a nice espresso machine so I can start practicing roasting darker and brewing shots, but I constantly get stymied by the space usage of buying an additional grinder for an already fairly bulky espresso machine (even the smallest ones are tough for our little kitchen). I don't mind spending money on the grinder. It's just space constraints that keep stopping me from pulling the trigger.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

VelociBacon posted:

The issue isn't finding a grinder that can grind fine enough or coarse enough, the issue is the retention means you can never really go between extremes in a way that will give you good results. Even on the ultra-low retention grinders, there's enough retention and it's annoying enough trying to dial back in as you do both that most people don't bother.

For what it's worth I have two Eureka Mignon Chronos. One has the espresso burrs and the other the Filtro Pro burrs. I could absolutely go fine enough with the espresso burrs for Turkish - I ground fine enough on my first try to choke the espresso machine completely with no water exiting the basket at all. These two grinders are perfect for me and they're super cheap for what you get.

Ahhhhh, ok. This makes sense. The definite issue I have right now is how much space I can spare for more coffee equipment and that's been a struggle. I might need to try another approach.

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

Would you be willing to run a hand grinder? They’re extremely compact, and you can get very nice (if tiring) results from the expensive ones.

The above poster talks about switching, which is a huge issue in general, unless each bag of coffee is gonna be used for one method. Then it might be doable.

For some reason, I hadn't considered this option before. For the first couple years after I started drinking good coffee I actually had a hand grinder but because I was grinding for multiple servings every morning, I quickly justified an electric. But I didn't mind the workout and that would solve my space issue very easily. I also imagine grinding for a single or double shot would be the equivalent for grinding for a pour over or French press, so that wouldn't be unusually difficult. This might be my answer!

nwin posted:

Niche duo is an option. (You have to switch burrs for coffee vs espresso).

I like the look of that one. I'll do some more digging and see what I think. I like the look and the size seems more compact than most.




Bonus question here. I've heard some people purge their grinders occasionally with dried parboiled rice to clean the burrs and reduce oil buildup but that sounds crazy...Right? I don't understand why you would do that when you could just tear the thing down and clean the burrs with a brush, but I'm open to new ideas.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Jhet posted:

https://urnex.com/grindz-grinder-cleaning-tablets

Because it takes 30 seconds to do it this way and much longer to take the machine apart and then reseat the burrs.

That makes sense. And parboiled rice is a good option for cleaning, then?

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Jhet posted:

It’s not going to be ideal honestly. Rice can be really hard, even when parboiled. Just get the Urnex Grindz or there’s a product called Full Circle Grinder Cleaner. They’re $20, but it takes me over a year to use the whole canister on two grinders once a month. Well worth the time saved.

Cool! Appreciate the input. I'll check that out.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Sir Sidney Poitier posted:

I use that to get burnt-on crud off my stainless pans but I'd worry it'd be too aggressive for this. I only want something for the regular water marks that build up. So far I've just been wiping firmly with a cloth but I don't know how long that'll remain effective.

My wife cleans our wine glasses with a little white vinegar and a cloth. You can dilute the vinegar a little if you don't like the smell, but it absolutely strips away mineral residue and water marks. Our glasses are literally spotless with just a little wiping. I also use 1:1 lemon juice diluted with water to descale my kettle and it works instantly with one pass every time. I prefer the lemon juice here since I don't like the smell of the vinegar and if there's gonna be a smell in my kettle, I prefer lemon fresh scent.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Accidentally posted this as it's own thread because I'm a tired moron, so here's a second attempt.

So, I just found out about the La Pavoni line of manual lever espresso makers and I think I'm finally gonna pull the trigger on espresso brewing and espresso bean roasting. You all talked me into hand grinding espresso on what will almost definitely be a 1Zpresso JX Pro S (since it would only be like 8-16 grams of beans at a time which is a very different ballgame from when I used to hand grind almost 45g of beans for pourover/french press) which would save me a ton of money and counter space. Combined with a lever espresso machine, this is gonna not only be the height of true coffee making (in my mind), but will also save so much space and teach me really how to finally attack my Everest (espresso) head on. I'm very hard headed and am totally ok with spending a ton of time dialing all this in, so no need to warn me about that.

Having said this, have any of you all had any experience with La Pavoni's lever machines or other home lever machines that maybe perform better? I would like to spend no more than about $1k on the machine, if possible, but would be willing to spend a bit more for higher quality or a decent bump in performance. La Pavoni seems to make very high quality systems that stand the test of time and that are very bare bones, and I love that. I guess my only complaint would be that it seems that all their lever machines use a 51mm portafilter rather than a 54 or 58. I dunno if that's a huge deal other than looking for accessories, but I suppose that's a tradeoff for having such a compact system. I'm also very interested in making steamed milk on the system, so having a good steam wand would be a major bonus.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

I definitely looked into the Flair for a while, but it doesn't have a steam wand and seems a bit...odd to me. Like the heating element and process has some weird quirks compared to a traditional boiler. I would be open to the idea of the Flair still, but I also like the look of the workflow of a more traditional espresso machine like the La Pavoni.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

The La Pavoni is the odd one out here rather than the flair. Modern Manual & lever espresso machines don’t typically have boilers (and therefore won’t have steam wands). You supply the hot water (typically boiled in a kettle).

The heating element on the flair 58 is there to preheat the brewhead. On units without the preheater, you need to heat extra water and run it through with no coffee to get it up to temp.

You can get a very nice manual or auto espresso machine with a budget of $1k with a pretty small footprint.

Fair enough. It just looks like a bit more of a tedious workflow. I like the idea of having the whole system in one compact place while still allowing for some control over the variables. I do have a nice kettle and have seriously debated going full manual, but space for me is one of the most important facets to owning an espresso maker and having the boiler, maker, and steam wand all in a nice, compact build that still allows for a lot of personality is a really big draw.

MetaJew posted:

https://www.odysseyespresso.com/

The Argos lever machine is pretty cool if it ever ships. Haven't bothered looking for reviews or more details since I bought a robot earlier this year, but it seemed very cool and it has a steam wand.

That's a pretty clean looking design and definitely looks similar to the La Pavoni. I don't know much about that company, though. I really like how long La Pavoni has been around and they seem like they make some serious machines at a reasonable price. How do you like the Robot?

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

it dont matter posted:

What about the Profitec Go? Compact little machine with lots of features for just under 1k.

I actually had looked at this one before and really liked the look, but I'm still really drawn to the idea of a lever machine. The La Pavoni has so many parts available and it's super straightforward to maintain. Not having to worry about shrouds, pumps, or other electrical parts beyond the boiler is really appealing.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Yeah, I mean, the Flair IS a cool machine and one that I would consider, but I just don't want to go that far for multiple shots a day and still not have a milk frother. The La Pavoni is such a cool in between and being able to actually pull your own shot has been something I've been very interested in for a long time in a machine. Being able to control the temp on the brew head seems much less finicky when you can just pump the poo poo to temp rather than pour and soak and then rush to keep the temp on a full manual. Plus, it looks really sick on a kitchen counter.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Corb3t posted:

Friend of mine has a $1300+ automatic machine, $350 flat burr grinder, and $100 NanoFoamer Pro on preorder and his wife only drinks cold brewed Costco french roast. :haw:

I won't yuck your yum, but this is honestly the first time I've heard of a La Pavoni - it doesn't seem very popular in espresso nerd communities? Any reason why?

I hope you love yours.

Edit: I'm guessing for most espresso nerds, dropping $800-$1500 on a manual lever pump machine just doesn't make sense for them when they can get a Profitec, Breville, or Rancilio that would be less finicky and easier to churn out a few shots in the morning. I've often thought about getting a lever machine, myself, but something cheaper like a Flair.

Nah, I definitely appreciate the counter points, hence why I'm here! I've not heard of them before, but reading online, it seems to have a pretty cult following with a huge aftermarket scene, as well. They've been making the same machine with minor iterations since the 70s which is incredibly cool to me and seems like they've held up well because of it. I've been watching reviews and reading about them and seeing people who have bought them and refurbished them second hand with little push back and great results. Hell, I think Hoffman made a video with a 20+ year old machine that seemed to make a really clean cup and that just furthered my interest. Minimal moving parts, pumps, and things to go bad is a huge plus for me and the learning curve is something I'd embrace. I was on the Gaggia Classic train for years, but this thing is basically everything I've been looking for in a machine, so we'll see. I'm mostly sold, but am gonna do a bit more research today to finalize my thoughts. I'll definitely be reporting back if I pull the trigger.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

I appreciate all the input and in a moment of drunken weakness, I pulled the trigger on the La Pavoni Pro. If nothing else, it'll be a good way to share my experiences here since it seems like a fairly obscure machine, but I'm very excited. I'm gonna start with some store bought beans until I can dial in a home roast profile of my own, so at least I won't have that variable.

Guess the next order is getting my 1Zpresso shipped. At least I didn't get any resistance from my wife. She's actually excited despite the costs.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

So, after doing a ton of research for my espresso grinder, I decided on the BPlus Apollo. It's gaudy, heavy, apparently really good at what it does due to the quality parts and build, and I loved it at first sight. They also had 2 of the special edition colors left and I really loved the olive green, so after some personal debate and late nights of research, I pulled the trigger.

Skip forward a week after ordering it and it arrives a couple days before my espresso machine is scheduled to get here. I figure I'll break it in with a pourover grind and see how it does and feels. I wasn't expecting much since the last hand grinder I had was a Hario Mini-Slim which was...fine, but was a workout and a half for two cups of coffee and took ages to get through. It was also a very basic grinder which was fine for the time, but I upgraded when I could afford to with a Virtuoso and was pleased to be done with the manual grinding.

Holy poo poo, I didn't know a hand grinder could feel this good. It chewed through 45g of beans in less than a minute and when I looked at the grind, it was the most uniform consistency I've ever seen. I've never used a fancy grinder, so this was a first for me and it blew my mind.

Ultimately, it was a little too finely ground (which is good to know for when I dial it in for my La Pavoni) so it over extracted and channeled in the pourover a bit, but drat, I was afraid I had made an expensive mistake going with such an expensive hand grinder until the first time I used the thing.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Rationale posted:

I been doin cowboy coffee on a fire and it fuckin slaps. One of the old enamelware pots with the spring handle

Boil about half a pot of water and take it off the fire


Stir in your coffee. My pot makes 36 cups so 2 cups of coffee is medium strength. Itll boil again when you stir it. Which is why your pot is half full

About five minutes after you stir in the coffee top the pot up with cold water. This stops the brewing and (usually) settles the grounds.

Makes the cheapest coffee in the store so good I’m up posting at midnight

Huh. I'm usually the official camp coffee brewer but find making enough for the whole site takes a couple passes in the French press. If you make a huge batch, can you just dole it out by pouring from the pot or does that stir the grounds up a lot? I might need to try this instead, next time.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

So, it took a couple days and a trip down to the local coffee roaster and bar to get all the data points I needed, but after an increasingly worried feeling that I'd hosed up and would never figure it out, I pulled my first truly impressive shot through the La Pavoni. The cup was full bodied, fairly clean, and not astringent with a nice crema. It was very enjoyable and probably better than any espresso shot I've had in recent memory. I'm so happy with the results and took enough notes that I hope will help me recreate the results. I'm still vibrating from the amount of coffee I've tasted in the last few days, but no one said success would be easy.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

In case you missed it in your research, unless it’s extremely dark roasted, it’ll be easiest to pull good shots from beans that are about 8 days (+/- a few depending) after roast date.

I appreciate the insight! I actually didn't know this. I'm used to using beans around 3-5 days after roast for my pourover and French press. This could definitely have been a factor here. The home roasted beans were about a week or so old and I tried to tamp much lighter than I had been to get a steady pull and that may have been what lead to the improvements.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

This is also an incorrect way to do this.

For espresso, your goal is to make every variable exactly the same, every time, except your target variable. Tamps should be the same every time and never change. You do this either with a calibrated tamper or by tamping hard as hell (you can not over-tamp, but you can absolutely under-tamp).

If your machine is choking the shot (slow/no pour out), your grind is too fine, your dose is too high, or your water isn't hot enough.

Hm...now you've got me wondering. I was originally under the same impression regarding the tamp pressure after watching James Hoffman's making espresso video, but in this video cut to the specific moment ( https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxWUoVSJ0n_kJLyAL8r19OHfbI3nhFrkmz?si=j-nNMkt-IM8V9KpF ), James discusses tamping for this particular machine as something to be done without an insane amount of force. I also had to throw out the first 3 or so shots I tried through the machine, despite actually grinding almost twice as coarse as the Apollo suggested to start with for espresso grind, as it choked the machine. Now, I'm tamping enough to press the air out and then a little more, but I'm not throwing my whole body behind it like I did the first couple times and that has helped the shots both in pull and also in flavor, and the puck at the end comes out intact without any overt visual evidence of channeling.

I'm wondering if this machine has a weird quirk or if there's something else I'm doing wrong. The machine itself heats and pressurizes to 1 bar and everything else seems to work fine. I'm pre-infusing 10 seconds on a 15g dose in a14-16g basket before pulling and now can consistently get good results. My beans are City+ roast and were roasted 9/22. I will try a coarser grind next time and see if I can go coarse enough to tamp the thing into oblivion without choking the machine. FOR SCIENCE

Edit: Yeah, it really seems like it shouldn't be choking due to over tamping, the more I'm seeing about the machine. I guess I just need to leave my expectations out of this and try a coarser grind. I'll definitely report back!

SlinkyMink fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 4, 2023

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Rationale posted:

I haven’t exactly cracked the code on the grounds yet but a careful pour certainly helps. I think adding cold water at the end helps. I added an egg one time and it was extremely crunchy. It’s been a bit like flipping a coin. Luckily the grounds generally settle in the bottom of the cup, too.

Just got cord of wood in so I can do this all winter :party:

Hell yeah! Imma try this next time. The egg might be a bridge too far for me, but up til then, I'm down.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Yeah, this all makes sense. I'm gonna back the grind off another couple clicks and see what I can get done tomorrow. Hopefully I can finally get it figured out. Thanks all!

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Hauki posted:

I’m just skimming, but I have a Cremina and in my experience got better results grinding a little finer and tamping lighter than I would for a pump.

So, today I actually ground coarser and tamped very firmly (without being over the top, but definitely more than I have the past couple shots when I was being delicate) and was actually able to pull a very nice shot without feeling like I was gonna explode the machine but also without it feeling like I was pulling water through an empty basket. I definitely think it was comparable to my more lightly tamped puck.

Were you finding a lighter tamp to be just easier to pull or was there something else behind it? I definitely feel like there's more to this than I initially thought and wonder if it really is just a lever machine thing or if it's something else. I am definitely going to keep my new grind setting and tamp firmly from now on as it's one less variable, but I'm very curious about this now.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

i own every Bionicle posted:

Can we talk about Kona coffee? A friend was recently in Maui and picked up a bag of Lion beans for me. He got them at what I think was a grocery store so even though it was $30 for seven goddamn ounces of beans, I wasn’t too surprised when they tasted like nothing. Pretty indistinguishable from any medium dark roast of maybe a Brazilian or something. it seems like there are a poo poo load of blogspam websites talking about the best Kona coffee, none of them say why it’s good, and it seems like it’s second only to kopi luwak in how overhyped it is. What does actual good Kona coffee taste like? I couldn’t find any good third wave roasters doing it, but I really didn’t look too hard. Any recommendations?

My only experience with Kona was at a small Cafe roaster in Wisconsin that I used to frequent. The owner had a connection in Hawaii that got him yearly shipments of a small batch that he'd sell until it was gone. As soon as I realized they had it, I tried it in a pourover (in my readings and experience probably the best way to get a taste of the origin while being a clean cup) and wasn't blown away, but did very much enjoy it. The notes were stone fruity and floral and light. Almost like peach and that light, almost creamy smell that you get from some Plumeria blooms. I actually got to chat with the owner who told me about his connect and even sold me some beans to roast at home. They were obscenely expensive even with a discount compared to what I normally bought (wanna say like $25 per pound green) but I was able to roast them at home and get similar notes.

From my experience, the way I see Kona is that it's reminiscent of those crazy natural wines or really sought after Scotches that taste like smoke and ash: they are worth the taste for the experience, even if it's not to your taste. The uniqueness of the flavor is what makes it interesting.

My next goal is to try and buy some authentic green Blue Mountain to try my hand at roasting, but yeah, I'm almost worried about the source and it just being a bait and switch similar to Kopi or the cheap Kona blend knock offs.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Cannon_Fodder posted:

That's also how my guy got his beans - a direct deal with his own farming friend in Hawaii.

If you're ever in Oahu, check out green world coffee. poo poo is absolutely dope.

Aw, man...I actually had a coworker that has family that lives out there and has a small farm. I was desperately trying to see if he could sell me a batch of beans but he was really cagey and ultimately basically told me it wasn't worth it and even if it was, the cost of export and everything just wasn't worth it. Broke my heart...

I absolutely intend to visit one day when I have a life outside of work, so probably in another 30 years... :shepicide:

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

So, after a couple weeks or so of using the La Pavoni consistently, I must say I've been very happy with it. It's definitely not a plug and play machine, but I've been able to mess around with settings and have learned a ton about how espresso is brewed and tastes just through my experiences so far. It's really cool to pull a shot and see and feel the process through the lever. I went from absolutely cranking the lever down to 9 bar as quickly as possible to doing a more gradual build to 9 bar and then lightly trailing off toward then end and that has made my cups go from being unbalanced and acidic to tasting sweet and balanced. I've even been able to mess around with pressurized vs unpressurized preinfusion times and varying the amount of water pulled at various points in the brew process and it's really opened my eyes to just how big the changes can become from subtle variations. I've even started looking at brew profiles that people are posting for the Decent just for shits and giggles and been experimenting there, too. But man, when you get it just right, the cup is so clean and sweet and gooey. I think I've gotten the grind down to where it needs to be and have been getting pretty consistent results from it. Overall, I'm loving the journey.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Spiggy posted:

Join the Kinu Crew and crank it with us crazy folk.

I have a Virtuoso and when I was looking into espresso I wanted to make it work so badly but ended up biting the bullet and going with a BPlus Apollo and regret nothing. The grind is so consistent and so clean for the cost that I don't mind the extra work every shot. And to be honest, if it's only 16g per grind that's nothing compared to the 40g+ I used to grind for me and my wife's morning pourover. I may eventually talk myself (and my wife) into a Niche Zero...

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

The grinders we have do great for Aeropress, French press, pourover, Moka pot, and drip. Aeropress and French press is about all I drink at home and I pretty often use my hand grinder, which also does fine. I'm happy with everything I've been drinking so far and don't see anything needing change there. If it takes adding a new "good" grinder to make the purchase of an espresso machine worth it when we're on a tight budget, I honestly don't care enough to pursue it any further. I've got plenty of options to make coffee that I and other people like to drink, neither of us are pining for espresso, and $500 buys a whole lot of shots from any one of the good coffee shops I can go to if I really have to have espresso.

Thanks for the input. We'll take the money we'd have spent on that and get the kid a new bike for Christmas instead.

Good on you for your restraint. I honestly didn't get into espresso for years for similar reasons. Knowing that the grinder probably would (and probably should) be as much if not more than the espresso maker while also taking up space that my current setup did all while making half my tools obsolete was a tough pill to swallow. It was only after a long while of research and consideration that we finally took the plunge. It'll always be an option later on and to be honest, the tech seems to be moving so quickly and getting so cheap for really good alternative products (especially the Taiwanese coffee scene) that in a year or so you might be able to get into it anyway for less than you could now.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Glockamole posted:

I was thinking about getting into roasting lately. 8 oz of coffee gets me through 10+ days, for context of how much coffee I drink. Are there any glaring reasons not to try an SR800?

While I don't have experience with the SR800, just make sure it can roast as dark as you want. I was under the (potentially false) impression that air roasters like that couldn't roast much past second crack reliably, but as I said, I could be wrong. I personally used a Gene Cafe for years and absolutely adored it. Not only is it easy to use and nice and simple, but it's solid as well. It's a hybrid roaster because it runs hot air over the center plate of the tumbler so it can get a really uniform roast and I was able to (sometimes accidentally) go dark enough for charcoal in it. The batch size was pretty reasonable, too. The Gene Cafe is more expensive than it used to be unfortunately, because I had a great many years with that little machine. Sorry, I just rambled and didn't answer your question.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Glockamole posted:

I beg to differ that final point. I'm trying to see how willing I am to develop the skillset to roast, and I'm a light to medium roast kind of guy, so the SR800 seems like a good initial candidate. And if ever I wear out an SR800 because I like roasting, you've already given me advice about what I might want to upgrade to. Thank you!

Glad to hear! Hopefully the rabbit hole doesn't go deeper than you want it to. I ended up getting an Aillio Bullet a year or so ago and love it, but it's arrival was definitely one of those, "oh poo poo, did I just make a huge mistake?" moments.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Glockamole posted:

Probably the biggest hindrance to online ordering is that for some reason it didn't even occur to me as an option. I do like the idea of buying green coffee in bulk and just having access to the freshest possible coffee whenever I want, though. But truth be told, you just gave me another solid option to consider.

There's definitely pluses to both approaches, I'd say. My initial investment in home roasting was based on the fact that green coffee is so cheap compared to roasted (if you don't account for the roasting gear...) and it gives me all the control I could want (once I've dialed it in and got the hang of it, of course) as well as a really easy way to stockpile coffee and have it ready-made within a day or so after degassing. I also like trying the same bean roasted in different ways and diving down the complexity of a completely new way of looking at coffee. It's definitely a fork of the hobby and leads down some interesting routes that lead to more understanding of the beans as a whole. I really like that aspect but it's also been a long journey and I've still so much to learn.

Ordering online instead of roasting will give you a great baseline with very little finagling, and a more consistent finished product and as such would probably be more appealing for you if your only goal with roasting was to have a more consistent source of beans. But roasting, while a pretty deep dive, is super fun and satisfying and even led me to have a little income on the side since I can roast enough to sell! If that sounds like something you'd enjoy, it's a great avenue to let you spend more time with coffee in a new and interesting way.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Yeah, a big change for me was getting a light duty commercial roaster and being able to roast up to 1 KG of beans per go. The telemetry side of it makes reproducibility much easier, as well. Before that, there could definitely be fluctuations between batches, but now being able to roast in a climate controlled environment with actual digital telemetry akin to the Decent espresso machine has been a very different experience. That experience came with a huge price tag, but I was definitely far enough down the rabbit hole to want to go hard. Being able to roast up to 10 lbs per hour is a welcome capability.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

BrianBoitano posted:

For those who might enjoy: 5 1/2 minutes of Flair, with no soundtrack or commentary because :effort:

https://youtu.be/0Vn9h3KhXhg?si=boKxMP900ld5lRDD

I'm a simple man. I see a video of someone making espresso, I watch the whole video.

I really like that scale. Which one is it? I need something lower profile than my Hario scale for the La Pavoni since the group head is so chonky and that one looks really great.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

BrianBoitano posted:

According to my purchase history, it's this from 14 months ago:

https://a.co/d/2mIondV

When I first got it, I confirmed accuracy using water & a graduated cylinder, so I'm pretty happy with it for $14. Haven't tested since though!

Dayum. I trust that due diligence. Thanks for the tip!

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

I think a friend is giving me his Gene Cafe drum roaster. Anything I should open up/check on/replace to make sure it's good to go before I dump a bunch of nice beans in it?

Hell yeah, dude. That's a solid roaster. I spent years working with it and it's simple and elegant and gives you a couple ways to monitor the beans. It doesn't give you a ton of control (I think I only ever roasted at full blast with the only variable being time) but it's a great roaster and it produces a decent batch size. That being said, it's a super simple design which should make giving it the once over pretty easy. There's a heating element and fan on one side that moves the air through the roast chamber and then through the chaff filter and exhaust port. Obviously, make sure the exhaust port is clean and clear. Make sure the roast chamber locks into place properly and rotates correctly without catching, and make sure the fan and heating element are clean and clear. You might need to check online for a simple guide for opening that side up, but there are a ton of simple mods that require opening it so I can't imagine it's that hard to do (and I never did because the machine was so easy to maintain that I never had the need to). Enjoy that thing! It's a great roaster and my personal recommendation any time someone wants to get into roasting. If you have any other questions, let me know. I'm a dumbass, so I can't really guarantee it'll be GOOD advice, but I can share what I know.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

Awesome, thank you. I'm pretty pumped about it. I really want to dial in a good medium-dark roast so my wife can enjoy this current fixation a bit. And also so we can give Kirklands beans a rest, I'm really tired of that stuff.

Roasting at full blast and only varying time is all I know how to do with the air popper, so I'm looking forward to tinkering with temp profiles just to see what happens. Even doing the same thing every time with the air popper has a degree of variation I just can't control, but I'm pretty good at hitting my % weight loss targets within a 1-1.5% usually. Just the ability to triple my batch size is going to be huge.

I just got 3 batches from Sweet Maria: Rwanda Ngororero, Ethiopia Geta Bore, and Sweet Maria's Altiplano blend. They're all supposed to be good for espresso and the language on the description was heavier on "toasted brown sugar" and stuff like that more than brighter fruits.

Oh yeah, you'll love this thing, then. The plate in the roast chamber helps to make it a pseudo contact roaster which helps with roast time and uniformity. The design is really great. Cleaning the roast chamber is... Uh... A bit challenging. But it's not a major requirement super often so not a huge deal. I think you'll enjoy it as an upgrade, and as I said, there are a ton of mods for the thing online to help improve your experience with it. I never got into them though, as the thing is already pretty solid.

Those sound like they'll be great! This thing definitely can do as dark as charcoal, so should get those crazy espresso roasts easy.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

I would be curious to hear the concensus on this freezing green beans conversation myself. I currently have a 50lb sack in a tightly wrapped, plastic bag that is stored in a box in a climate controlled garage space that I roast from and now I'm curious. I haven't ever really noticed flavor degradation from this storage method, but now I'm intrigued. I usually go through 50lbs in about 6 months, so it's not like they're sitting forever, but still.

SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

nwin posted:

How do you use 8 pounds a month?

I roast a lot and gift it/sell it and also drink about 4 cups a day combined between me and my wife. I usually roast about 4 lbs per session and usually roast about twice a month, so the math checks out. The Aillio Bullet I have has a roast capacity of 1000g and my usual batch size is 700g so it's a pretty capable light duty commercial roaster. I love it.

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SlinkyMink
Jul 28, 2022

Mr. Mambold posted:

That's pretty serious roasting. Seems from your description, you're already most of the way where freezing is supposed to go. Idk who else is going to try this, and I don't know that we'll have an opinion until a good 5-6 months out; if then. (we consume a fraction compared to you) Maybe freeze a fiver yourself and join in?

Hell, I'm game! I'm just about to make another order so I can take a couple pounds out and throw them in a sealed container in the freezer and see how they stack up against the other beans when I get to the end of the bag in a couple months. Maybe do a blind tasting for some friends. Always down for a little science!

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