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AlternateAccount posted:Is it not different? If we approach the maximum limit of genetic potential, do we transcend humanity as we know it? It would appear not, from what we've seen so far. Do we sacrifice something in the process? Maybe. Are genetic supermen inherently "better" as a whole than us? I suppose that depends on how you want to tell the story and how you want to define better. I really doubt that they are going to work the angle that Khan is somehow now a mystical being with powers completely beyond comprehension within the genome. Genetic superhumans and minor deities are both nonexistent fictional humanoid beings defined as superior to the average person. For the purposes of a narrative, they fulfill an identical range of roles. The differences are merely set dressing.
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Apr 24, 2013 22:15
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AlternateAccount posted:If you've seen anything at all, anything JJ Abrams has ever done, what would ever make you think that he would suddenly start taking the time to explain something like this? It's an INHERENTLY flawed concept that can't be made sensible, but the more important thing is that he's not even going to try. "But what ARE the Lost numbers?"
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Apr 25, 2013 21:43
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AlternateAccount posted:So since THRESHOLD exists, we can never hold a production with over a hundred times the resources to any sort of standard at all? Nah, it's more that if space magic makes for an engaging story, then that trumps anxieties over The Rules of A Universe That Isn't Real.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:00
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AlternateAccount posted:Does simply putting an implausible and inexplicable event earlier on in your runtime suddenly validate it for all following instances? If it's integrated as part of the story's premise, then it's loving fine.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:11
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jivjov posted:(The one major exception being Spock's " The music that kicks in to transition to the next scene really helps sell this one.
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Apr 27, 2013 20:27
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MisterBibs posted:Not going to spoil this entire post (since I feel it defeats the purpose), but it's about the topic at hand: ***not sure what part of this post to black out, if any*** EDIT: gently caress it, I'll just do it all. The problem is that minority characters are heavily underrepresented in film and television relative to white characters and actors. When you have a role where a south asian actor would be the default option- even if it's not inherent to the character- and you cast a white dude instead, you're not only perpetuating that imbalance, but actively eliminating a natural opportunity to help rectify it. What hope is there for the average asian actor to get ANY decent role, when even many asian-by-default roles are being cast with white actors? Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 09:18
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I like Michael Giacchino's flippant approach to track titles. This film's score will include such sweeping themes as "Earthbound and Down" and "The San Fran Hustle".
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May 8, 2013 05:32
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AlternateAccount posted:Really? Maybe you could engage with the paragraph you quoted instead of verbally rolling your eyes at it, because it doesn't seem self-evidently incorrect to me.
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May 8, 2013 21:50
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An effect can be chosen for looking cool, while also having thematic/emotional ramifications. I think it's certainly true that correlating the lensflares with a setting that's meant to resonate with the audience causes them to mean something. "Divinity" is a pretty good word, since the effect links "heavenly" visual tropes to the superheroic figures that man the ship.
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May 8, 2013 22:19
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The viewer is me!
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May 8, 2013 22:22
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Are there any delightfully anachronistic Sabotage-esque needle drops in this film? This is of importance to me.
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May 9, 2013 19:18
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I expect to enjoy this movie overall, but the casting does leave a bad taste in my mouth. It is possible for a film to be great and also have a li'l cloud of hosed-up hanging over it. I have to laugh at the paranoia about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS WILL SOON GO TOO FAR!!
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May 16, 2013 09:08
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You heard it here first: if you're an Indian-American actor, just leave the country if you want to find work!
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May 16, 2013 09:49
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I cannot believe your posts are real.
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May 16, 2013 09:52
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WastedJoker posted:Oh and I was initially concerned about Pegg having a larger role in the movie - I actually rather detest Simon Pegg - but he was tolerable. Pegg has this thing going on where I find him really likable on film and obnoxious as an actual person. He's kind of belligerently opinionated. an example in a recent interview: quote:Someone on Twitter accused me of lying about a plot detail of Into Darkness the other day, as though I owed them the truth in some way; as if there is some law somewhere that states film makers have to fess up to the secrets of their movies if speculation randomly hits upon a truth. I say screw that, as far as I’m concerned, the people who are hell bent on ruining the film for everyone else are the enemy and I owe them nothing, least of all the truth. He could have played it off as "ha ha that was cheeky of me wasn't it", but instead he's really really serious and contemptuous about it, attributing to malice what should probably be attributed to eagerness. I agree that filmmakers shouldn't have to confirm speculation, but the vitriol is weird. Plus, the "It's not Khan" party line he towed was, as mentioned, used to dodge and shut down legit criticisms of the casting. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 16:55
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api call girl posted:Note: A sikh. api call girl posted:Pictured: Khan Noonien Singh Your argument is literally that since they cast the character in a messed-up way back in the 1960s, they should never ever try to do better.
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May 16, 2013 17:01
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PeterWeller posted:What is the proper way to cast a genetic superman who was birthed in a test tube? If the story has established him as south asian, then probably a south asian actor. The intense defensiveness is weird. Earlier we had someone suggest without apparent irony that south asian actors are just supposed to self-segregate and find roles in Bollywood instead of Hollywood.
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May 16, 2013 17:12
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computer parts posted:Except people have said with zero irony that they would be fine with a(nother) hispanic man playing a south asian man. Well, I don't find that super agreeable either, so I'd rather not have that pinned on me. If you felt I was pinning scary ghost dog's stance on you, I apologize. WastedJoker posted:Guys, you've been to see a film about superhumans, aliens, ships flying faster than light, a man standing in a volcano that they make INERT with a giant icicle and the only thing you guys took from it was that someone was too white? This is disingenuous. I already posted that I expect to enjoy a lot about the film, which I'll probably be seeing tonight. in fact, I've defended other elements of this film and this film and the previous one in this very thread! That doesn't somehow place all negative aspects OFF LIMITS.
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May 16, 2013 17:21
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api call girl posted:e: too flippant and off-point Yeah, I'm not sure that comparing real-world ethnic groups to fictional alien planets is the coolest analogy.
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May 16, 2013 19:06
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I just got back from it. I feel more mixed about the film than I'd hoped. I definitely miss that certain quasi-psychedelic feel of the first film's visuals, some shots were inexplicably sloppy (the brig scene desperately called for smooth or still camera movement; if the jittering was meant to evoke anything valuable, it failed), Alice Eve's character was kind of baffling, and certain moments of exposition weren't woven in as seamlessly as they ought to have been. That said, several elements of the plot were extremely gratifying. Human cryo-torpedoes is an image that earns its ludicrousness by being visually and conceptually delicious. I appreciated the thread that almost every major interaction boiled down to a matter of lives as currency and leverage. One thing I do wish had been either explored more thoroughly (or excised in favour of an alternate dilemma more relevant to Into Darkness' story) is the opening scene. It feels orphaned from the rest of the film. There's a very direct parallel begging to be made between the respective influences of the Enterprise and the Narada, and Into Darkness just shoves that parallel into the background instead of properly mining it. When we see the natives sketching the Enterprise, it's a direct foreshadowing of how Nero and his hyper-advanced crew have shifted humans on an accelerated course towards Dreadnought-class ships and interplanetary teleportation, and yet the closest we get to talking about that subject is a little babbling from Scotty about the transwarp formula. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 08:43 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 05:05
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bobkatt013 posted:transwarp formula was something from the first film and something that he should have already figured out. I was under the impression that the formula Spock Prime brought Scotty had something to do with the trick Harrison pulled. If not, then yeah I guess that brings us down to no examples!
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May 17, 2013 05:11
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The '09 film wasn't great with its female cast either (it only passed the Bechdel test with a scene of Kirk eavesdropping on two women in their underwear), but it's definitely disappointing to see a lack of improvement on that front. Star Trek's built a reputation for being classier than average about this kind of thing!
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May 17, 2013 09:01
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I love how when a film has multiple scriptwriters, people always arbitrarily pick and choose which one must have written the parts they liked/hated.
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May 17, 2013 10:12
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That scene actually ties directly into the film's two strongest recurring motifs (bartering with lives and self-sacrifice), so I highly doubt it was an afterthought.
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May 19, 2013 06:00
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jivjov posted:Source please? He's only confirmed for Episode VII. There have been rumors of him getting VIII and IX, but unless something has been announced in the last couple days, it is by no means confirmed. Yeah, I'm certain that only Episode VII is a confirmed Abrams joint. For all we know, Disney's plan may be to bring him in chiefly to establish the aesthetic and direction for the new trilogy, and then potentially rotate in other names. Meanwhile on the Star Trek front, a recent Pegg interview floated the idea that a third film could have a new director with Abrams overseeing as a producer. Personally, I'd like to see Brad Bird come in for an installment of either series.
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May 20, 2013 05:03
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No Wave posted:I may have missed something - within the timeline of the film, had Khan been a genocider? Did he get Minority Report'd? The movie barely noted this, but Khan was a dictator in the 1990s whose rule spanned a quarter of the Earth. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 01:58 on May 23, 2013 |
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May 23, 2013 01:17
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What if Chris Pine had rocked the audition for Sulu?
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May 23, 2013 07:32
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Suppose this "Heck yeah, mix everything up, anything goes" attitude (which seems like biting a bullet to dodge the consequences of your previous argument) results in a cast of mostly established Hollywood actors, who are statistically mostly white. White Kirk, white Uhura, white Sulu, white Spock, white Scotty, tan Chekov, white Bones. Let's say this hypothetical cast all knocked their auditions out of the park. Is it okay to go full speed ahead with that? When you don't pay specific attention to including minorities, they tend to be passed over. That's just the reality on the ground right now when it comes to casting and marketing. Indifference doesn't generally produce a representative sample of the population, it produces the status quo.
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May 23, 2013 07:52
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"A starship crew are sent on a mission to assassinate a fugitive responsible for two major terrorist attacks, only to find that their superiors intend for that mission to serve as a catalyst for war. When the crew elect to capture this fugitive instead of killing him, they are betrayed by their superiors and attacked. The fugitive, desperate to reunite with his own crew, plays both sides against each other, and commandeers the stronger ship. The ensuing exchange of blows results in massive casualties before he is finally apprehended." That's a thirty-second summary of the core plot. Thirty more seconds are available to include whatever additional details and flavour you like. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 23:51
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computer parts posted:The long and short of it is that they should have made this the first film so Kirk could be cast by a Hispanic guy, which would have solved all the problems. Yes, the logical extension of "Please cast Indian characters with Indian actors where possible" is that Hollywood would soon go overboard and stop casting any white characters as white.
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May 25, 2013 19:25
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computer parts posted:And as said before, a lot of people are moaning that Khan is specifically not hispanic, not non-Indian. What? Who? I've seen a whole bunch of people bringing up "Well they were going to cast Del Toro but he fell through WHAT CAN YOU DO" to placate critics of whitewashing. I don't remember seeing many (or any) people saying "Del Toro would have been perfect, Khan should be hispanic".
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May 25, 2013 20:43
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jivjov posted:I keep seeing "he's textually Indian!!!!" thrown about. Could someone remind me where this is stated in Into Darkness? Parallel timeline be damned, they've already proven that not everything is as it was in the Trek canon with these new films, and I don't recall it ever being definitively established that Khan in this film is definitively of Indian origin. He becomes confirmed as textually Indian the moment Young Spock defers to Old Spock to cite canon.
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May 25, 2013 20:59
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jivjov posted:nacelles And so it comes to this.
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May 25, 2013 21:07
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They literally call up the character from the pre-existing series of films to ask what happened in that series of films.
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May 25, 2013 21:57
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No Wave posted:Is this sarcasm? We can look at the fact that Khan is clearly a different dude and that things look different. Iron Man 2 is not in the same setting/universe as Iron Man 1 because War Machine is clearly now a different dude. And don't get me started on the narrative implications of three different Hulk actors. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 22:32 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 22:29
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You're mistaking casting and design choices for textual evidence. In the canon-obsessed world, if the interior paint job of a spaceship changes between the 1960s version and the 2000s version, it apparently counts as an Important Narrative Fact.
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May 25, 2013 22:35
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Did you guys watch an alternate movie where instead of calling up Old Spock to hear him confirm that this was the same man from Space Seed and WoK, the crew dug through some archives and identified Khan as a caucasian British colonial despot? Are we dealing with a Clue alternate-reel situation?
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May 26, 2013 00:03
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I wanted to compile a (non-comprehensive) list of real arguments that have been made in this thread in favour of Cumberbatch's casting as Khan: -Indian actors should go to Bollywood to get roles -Trying to find an Indian actor to play Khan would be like trying to find a real Klingon or Vulcan to play those alien races -Nacelles are different, ergo Khan is white -Khan's actor didn't match his character's race in 1967, therefore Khan's actor should NEVER match the character's race (but white is OK) -Khan can maybe not be Indian because *selective canon lawyering* -Khan has always been white -John Cho is Korean and not Japanese, therefore all cross-casting is equally okay -They tried casting this hispanic man but it didn't work out *shrug* what more do you want -I can't imagine an Indian character crushing a man's head, but I can accept the skinniest white man in the world doing it -If this attitude goes too far, white actors won't get white roles anymore Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 26, 2013 |
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May 26, 2013 00:16
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Cingulate posted:Can you paraphrase what this is referring to?  
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May 26, 2013 00:34
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Uhhh maybe because treating this sort of thing as an "afterthought" is callous and demonstrably results in erasure from media, among other issues. The reason folks of colour are so underrepresented in media overall is because representation is treated as an "afterthought", and roles default to white (which is seen as "neutral" for hosed up reasons) a staggering majority of the time. Choosing not to think about these things doesn't automatically produce fairness, it produces stasis. Star Trek has a reputation for doing a better job than that (even if there were missteps at times), which makes the casting extra weird and disappointing. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 09:55 on May 26, 2013 |
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May 26, 2013 09:50
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