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Jo: great brazilian striker or greatest brazilian striker?
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Sep 11, 2013 17:43
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Gigi Galli posted:I thought he was pretty decent last night? I mean the goal was a tap in but still. He created a lot of space for Neymar. I really like him, I just think he is funny because he has been so efficient even while people doubted him so much.
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Sep 11, 2013 18:50
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There will still be a fla-flu next year, as they both still play in the state championship. I got to say, as an Atletico Mineiro fan, that this is perfect karma: Fluminense won last year with some extremely questionable refereeing, and then this year Atletico is on its way to Morocco and Flu to the second division. Hopefully this time Fluminense will get back to the 1st division through the front door, as opposed to extra field maneuvering*. *For those who are unaware of the pro-Rio corruption in Brazilian soccer: Fluminense was relegated in 1996, but they changed the rules of the 1997 competition to allow them back in the 1st division. They were then relegated again in 1997, and then in 1998 they were relegated to the third division. They won the third division in 1999, but extra-field maneuvering made them jump straight from the 3rd division to the 1st division.
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Dec 9, 2013 07:49
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Magrov posted:Amazing. Even in victory, Atlético-MG fans are still whining babies. Hahaha Gotta love people trying to defend the indefensible. In 1996, the scandals were related to Atletico Paranaense in the Brazilian cup and Corinthians in the Brazilian championship. That the end result of that scandal was that they kept the winners and everything else intact and only prevented Fluminense from being relegated is ridiculous, as fluminense was never even mentioned in the scandal. Again, in a scandal that had the presidents of Atletico Paranaense and Corinthians involved, neither team was punished and the only actual outcome was to prevent the relegation of Fluminense. Who was relegated again in 1997. And 1998. And the Sandro Hiroshi thing is also bullshit. There was no reason, again, to promote Fluminense from the 3rd division to the 1st. Especially because when CBF did go back to organizing the championship in 2001 they kept Fluminense up. And sure, there were many other scandals in Brazilian soccer history. And with the exception of promoting gremio in 1993 (not 1994), most of them benefited Rio teams, and, to a lesser degree, Sao Paulo teams. There is a reason Rio teams do extremely well in national competitions but generally fail once they enter competitions not refereed by CBF.
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Dec 9, 2013 17:48
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Magrov posted:So Corinthians-SP and Atlético-PR got caught red-handed bribing a MG congressmen, anothing nothing happens to either of them and somehow that's proof of RJ corruption? I'm not claiming that Fluminense was unfairly benefited from those cases. My point is that your claim of "pro-RJ" corruption in the CBF is quite frankly, pathetic, just like your claim that Fluminense only won last year by bribing referees. Huh? It wasn't "nothing" that happened: "Corinthians-SP and Atlético-PR got caught red-handed bribing a MG congressmen" so they kept a Rio team in the first division. And I didn't say they won last year bribing referees. I said they won last year with extremely questionable refereeing: http://placarreal.com.br/index2012.asp If you were to list corruption and refereeing scandals in the last 50 years in Brazil, they overwhelmingly favor Rio teams. Not by accident, since that is where CBF is. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 9, 2013 |
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Dec 9, 2013 20:26
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Dias posted:Can we agree that the 90s were shady as gently caress when it came to weird out-of-nowhere promotions and not-relegations? I don't think there was a bias, it's just that the CBF was even more corrupt and insane than it is right now. Even when Grêmio came back in 1993, it was this weird thing where they went "you know what, EVERYONE IS PROMOTED gently caress IT gently caress THE SÉRIE B" and I can't tell how much of that was just to save Grêmio because drat that's a bizarre move. I guess not only the 90s, huh? For those of you not following the Brazilian league: Fluminense is likely to avoid playing the second division due to extra-field maneuvers (the third time Flu would avoid serie B in about 17 years due to extra field crap). Why? Apparently Portuguesa, a tiny team from Sao Paulo, used a player that was suspended in their last match, which would make them lose just enough points to fall behind Flu. And the circumstances for that are shady as gently caress, for the surprise of no one: - Heverton, Portuguesa's midfielder, went to judgement on friday. Portuguesa's lawyer claimed that he was suspended just for the one game that he had already served, so he played on sunday. On monday, Portuguesa got an official notification that Heverton had been suspended. The fact that portuguesa only got the official word after the game shouldn't matter, claims the representative for the Brazilian sports justice court (pre-judging the case before it even came up to him), because they had a lawyer present on friday (who, again, told portuguesa the punishment was only 1 game, already served, not 2). To make matters worse, Portuguesa's lawyer wasn't actually hired by Portuguesa, but appointed by CBF. But I guess it is only a massive coincidence that it is Flu again that will likely avoid relegation based on that, huh?
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Dec 11, 2013 17:07
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Publicly, they are. But they are also a tiny team with no fans (by far lowest attendance of any 1st division team), so some of the bigger sports writers have even suggested that maybe it wasn't stupidity on the lawyer's part, but corruption. Of course, Vasco is also trying its shady stuff by claiming that they should get the points of their game against Atletico Paranaense because of the fight in the stands, though that is a bit less likely to happen.
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Dec 11, 2013 17:23
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The precedent goes both ways. Cruzeiro was algo found guilty of having an irregular player on its bench (for contract reasons, but the clause that deals with the penalty for that is the same), but it was only fined, instead of losing any points (though now Schmitt has decided to appeal that decision). Not to mention that the lawyer who relayed the false information to Portuguesa is appointed by CBF and has defended Fluminense as recently as november 28th. It is, of course, all a big scam. The idea that a lawyer would mistakenly tell a club the result of a sentence, with the paper trail only coming the day after the game, is a big joke. The attorney general for the Brazilian sports court is already saying that Portuguesa must be punished, even though the case hasn't even be officially brought up yet. Gigi Galli posted:So unrelated to the shady dealings of post-championship relegations, did Pato really win the equivalent of "biggest flop" of the year? I read on an Italian website that he won the Brazilian equivalent of the Bidone d'Oro. There is no official "award," but a number of publications have put him in their worst signings list.
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Dec 11, 2013 21:12
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How is that different from what I said? Cruzeiro was accused under the exact same article of the Brazilian sports legislation: article 214. I doubt that even if Portuguesa is punished anything will happen with the lawyer. And the issue with Schmitt isn't whether he has the powers to make accusations. But the ridiculous statements that he has publicly made about how if Portuguesa isn't punished it would destroy the image of STJD. I mean, are you seriously going to try to defend this crap? joepinetree fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 11, 2013 |
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Dec 11, 2013 22:32
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Wait, how is there wiggle room about a July contract that wasn't made official, but no wiggle room for a decision that was taken at 9 pm on Friday, only published on Monday, and used to relegate Portuguesa? Not to mention that now that it is imminent that Fluminense will be able to avoid playing the second division again (3rd time it avoids the second division through extra-field means), people are finding other examples of players being punished on friday night and playing on sunday, only serving the suspension the next week (last one they've found was Bruno, a second division player). But I am sure that it is just a huge coincidence that for the 3rd time! in 17 years Fluminense will avoid having to play in the second division due to legal issues. I wish I had that kind of luck.
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Dec 11, 2013 23:45
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Give me a loving break. Yeah, it is all an axe to grind against fluminense, that lucky team that the three times it was supposed to play in the second division was saved by divine providence. But keep trying to defend the indefensible. As for Christmas present, that would come from Morocco, not Rio.
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Dec 12, 2013 01:53
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Well, that was embarrassing. Thinking back it seems like it was the obvious outcome: Atletico has a bunch of great players with disciplinary or motivation problems (Ronaldinho, Jo, Tardelli) who have basically been playing like they've been on vacation for 5 months. At least with Fluminense out there Atletico is only the butt of about half the jokes people are making. Hopefully the next coach will make the team a little bit more balanced: Atletico this year had by far the best home record in Brazil (and in fact have only lost one meaningless game at home since 2011), coupled with one of the worst in away games. Though I'd be happy if they simply avoid Roth or Autuori. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 22:05
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So here's the latest from the Brazilian league: The sports court upheld the decision to dock Portuguesa 4 points. This result keeps Fluminense in the 1st division. This creates a potentially very messy situation. Since 2010 Brazil adopted the "Fan Statute" as federal law. Part of that federal law claims that decisions made by sports courts need to be officially published or they are null and void. And the decision to suspend Portuguesa's player wasn't published until after the game. In fact,CBF has a website only clubs have access to that contains information about player eligibility and it said nothing about the suspension of the player in question before the game. Portuguesa brought this up to the sports court, and it was dismissed, as they claimed that, since they had not been following that provision for a while, it would open the door to all sorts of challenges to prior decisions and results. But while the sports courts seem to have reached their final decision, Portuguesa could still sue in a regular court of law. And they would be likely to at least get an injunction barring the start of next year's Brazilian championship. So rumors are that CBF will do what it did in 2000, punt on the issue and have a championship with 24 teams and a playoffs next year, keeping all relegated teams up. Lending some credence to these rumors is the fact that vasco (one of the relegated teams) seems to be spending as if they will be playing in the 1st division next year, having already signed Martin Silva, Eduardo Aranda and rumored to be going after a bunch more.
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Dec 30, 2013 09:32
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Ronaldinho is staying with Atletico, Elano is going to Flamengo, and it is uncertain what is going to happen with Scocco and Forlan. Rumors are Forlan is going to Botafogo and Scocco is demanding a raise or more playing time. In extra field news, a district attorney for Sao Paulo state has sued to overturn the loss of points by Portuguesa, and unless something dramatic happens the likely result seems to be that they will have to change the formula for the Brazilian league.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:13
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Gigi Galli posted:So what happened to the Ronaldinho to Besiktas thing, was that a hoax? No one knows for sure, but the speculation was that Ronaldinho was always going to stay at Atletico, but used Besiktas as leverage for a better salary. As for changing the rules, it unfortunately would not be the 1st time it happens. It would not be the 10th time it happens either. For most of Brazilian league history they changed rules from year to year. The sad part is that the Brazilian league has had a stable number of teams and format since 2005, so if this happens it would end the first period of stability in league history.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:33
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He started out OK, but then like the rest of Inter became a mess midway through the season, and the fact that Inter had a glut of foreigners (Dalessandro, Scocco, Datolo for most of the year, Bolatti) meant that he often couldn't play.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:19
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We have contradicting injunctions in place, making it likely that the only way to resolve the issue would be when it reaches the Brazilian supreme court, which would take a while, making it very likely that we will have some sort of change in the rules to accommodate the ongoing drama. In other news, Sao Paulo had a practice match against the USMNT and beat them 2-1, which wouldn't be remarkable if not for the fact that the US soccer federation tried to ban Sao Paulo from divulging the results (which came out anyways).
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Jan 16, 2014 19:26
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Otamenti on his way to Atletico Mineiro on loan for the period he would be ineligible to play for Valencia.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:32
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Atletico and Santa Fe was a pretty exciting game, though I really wish Atletico's coach was someone other than Autuori. He had Ronaldinho playing as a defensive midfielder for part of the game.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:26
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Cruzeiro went from being one of the favorites to maybe not even making it out of their group. Lost 2-0, despite having a pk in its favor and defensor having a player sent out. The second defensor goal was pretty, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9rSjbGsooM
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Mar 12, 2014 18:39
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Anelka just signed with Atletico mineiro. The real question is if this means they are selling Jo.
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Apr 6, 2014 17:58
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We have an interesting week on libertadores. Depending on results, we might end up with a lot of rivalries in the round of 16. Atletico is likely to get either cruzeiro or flamengo, there is a chance Velez gets San Lorenzo, and Gremio could get either Botafogo or Santa Fe (the team that bounced them last year).
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Apr 9, 2014 18:43
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hecko posted:San lorenzo - Botafogo is pretty intense. Casla needs to win and to Independiente del valle to lose or tie with Española Intense is Independiente del valle and Union Espanola. 5-4 right now.
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Apr 10, 2014 03:40
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No disrespect to Cerro Porteno, but cruzeiro are so freaking lucky. They struggle until the last minute to qualify, and they get a very easy match up against Cerro (currently 7th in apertura 2014, struggled to qualify in an easy group). Meanwhile, Atletico mineiro and Gremio are first in their groups and undefeated and they get Atletico Nacional and San Lorenzo, respectively.
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Apr 11, 2014 16:19
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The best they've ever done was when Guadalajara reached the finals in 2010.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:03
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joepinetree posted:We have contradicting injunctions in place, making it likely that the only way to resolve the issue would be when it reaches the Brazilian supreme court, which would take a while, making it very likely that we will have some sort of change in the rules to accommodate the ongoing drama. Quoting myself here to refresh people's memory. Remember the mess from last year? Portuguesa, the team that was relegated by extra field decisions, was supposed to play their first game in the 2nd division yesterday. Until a court representative showed up and blocked the game from continuing given the existing injunction. Things are about to become interesting again.
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Apr 19, 2014 15:18
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If Cruzeiro gets by San Lorenzo, I think they will win it. They are in the "sweet spot" for a South American team, which is that of having a bunch of good but not great players, which means that they are unlikely to lose someone to Europe over the break. I doubt Defensor will be able to keep Arrascaeta after the break, for example, so them being the best team left right now can completely change.
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May 10, 2014 05:48
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If they were able to keep everybody together, I'd say Defensor. But as they are not likely to, I'd say Cruzeiro or Bolivar.
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May 13, 2014 18:44
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Bolivar isn't very good, but unlike most other Bolivian teams, they can sort of hold their own away from home. That, coupled with playing in the altitude makes them a very dangerous team in this competition format. They tied with Lanus in Argentina, 1x1, meaning they have a huge advantage playing at home.
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May 13, 2014 22:36
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Viggo Mortensen and the Pope sleep happy tonight.
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May 15, 2014 03:57
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Volkerball posted:2 weeks until the semis. Is the Recopa Sudamericana worth watching? It's next week. Seems like Lanus and Atletico Mineiro would be a good matchup. Also I tried doing some research into how the qualifying works for the copa sudamericana and the libertadores work, and holy poo poo what a convoluted mess. At least in Brazil the Libertadores qualifying is straightforward, but the sudamericana is a mess. Teams knocked out in early rounds of the Brazil cup are invited to Sudamericana and etc. As for Lanus and Atletico, Atletico is already in Buenos Aires training at AFA's facilities (since Argentina is training at the Atletico practice facilities). And I am hyped. Let me just say that the following happened the last time Lanus and Atletico reached a South American final: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgN4gQKSMLs Leao still has a steel plate in his face from this fight, Ruggeri was suspended for so long for instigating it he retired. I was at second leg in Belo Horizonte and the fear of reprisals was so great that there were a ton of police there. I saw more police at mineirao that day than at at world cup match this year.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:33
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Volkerball posted:So lets say a team finishes 2nd in the Brasileiro, and gets eliminated before the round of 16 in the Copa do Brasil. Do they qualify for the libertadores and sudamericana? Also, if a team wins the sudamericana, they qualify for both the sudamericana and libertadores? Seems weird that the concept seems to be the libertadores being the big competition, and the sudamericana being for all the second best teams, but a team could hypothetically win both, assuming I'm getting this right. Recopa wouldn't be very interesting that year. No, because Libertadores teams only enter Copa do Brasil at the round of 16 stage. If a team wins the sudamericana, they qualify only for the libertadores. Can't play both the same year. The 8 Brazilian teams that make it are the winners of the northeast cup and 7 teams who were eliminated before the round of 16 in Copa do Brasil who finished the best the previous year. This way, Libertadores teams are automatically kept from sudamericana. So, for example, last year's sudamericana included both a team that was relegated in 2012 and a team that played the second division in 2012. It is entirely possible we will have a second division Brazilian team playing it again. All it takes is most teams ahead of them making it to the round of 16. quote:
It really depends on the match up. Last year it was Sao Paulo v Corinthians, so it also got a lot of attention.
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Jul 11, 2014 06:16
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But the top 4 teams and the winner of the copa do brasil making the libertadores, as well as last years libertadores champions seems straightforward enough.
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Sad Panda posted:A shame, I can probably still wrangle a game in there. Definitely not just here for the football - 6 months in Brazil and only been to one game - just like to watch games if the stars align. Well, you have Libertadores and Recopa, depending on your dates, before the dates already mentioned. Defensor plays Nacional on 7/29 at Centenario Stadium in Montevideo. If you'll head to Argentina earlier, you have San Lorenzo x Bolivar on 7/23 at Nuevo Gasometro in Buenos Aires, and Atletico Mineiro x Lanus in Lanus on 7/16.
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Jul 13, 2014 15:26
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Mentioned it on the Brazil WC thread, but Brazilian media is reporting Dunga is now the frontrunner for the job.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:35
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My main issue with Dunga is that he plays favorites all too much with his call ups. Felipe Melo being called up in 2010 while Ronaldinho wasn't (after his best Milan season) was evidence of that. The end result was a team that was built to hold leads but not to chase one. It only had two attacking midfielders (Kaka and Elano), and once Elano got hurt there really wasn't anyone he could put in to try to create some offense.
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Jul 19, 2014 00:54
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El Hefe posted:A lot of national team managers do that, most have that flaw I bet if we start analyzing them. Sure. But when you leave a then in shape Ronaldinho (top scorer for Milan that year) in order to take 5 defensive midfielders and only 2 attacking ones (one of them an injured Kaka, the other Elano, a back up at Galatasaray), that takes it to an extreme. A reminder that this was the Ronaldinho of 2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46CkS-EDvQ
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Jul 19, 2014 01:57
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HAHAHA, Flamengo fired Ney Franco to hire... Luxemburgo. It will be interesting to see how far of its way CBF and Globo will go to prevent Flamengo's relegation.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:33
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Badger of Basra posted:how can they? Brazil doesn't have the bullshit averages system like Argentina (which still didn't prevent River from getting relegated by my team Fluminense has been relegated on the field 4 times, including once to the third division. They only played in the second division once, were relegated to the third division, then went straight to the first. In 2012, flamengo was fighting relegation, had just fired its headcoach, and were about to play atletico, which was on a long winning streak. CBF decided to postpone the match due to stadium security issues, so flamengo got a two week break. The stadium with security issues was used that same weekend by botafogo. CBF and globo will not let flamengo get relegated.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:54
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hecko posted:There were unfounded rumors today that Boca Jrs will bring Ronaldinho to replace Riquelme. Minas Gerais media is reporting that tonight might have been the last match he played for Atletico, though where he is going is uncertain. He's been terribly out of shape since late last season, and most Atletico fans speculated that his good form from 2012 through late 2013 was because he was trying to go to the world cup. Once it became clear he wouldn't, he wasn't the same. Volkerball posted:Tied at 3, Atletico leads 4-3 on aggregate. Last half of extra time is about to start. Levir Culpi is a decent coach with a massive problem: whenever he gets a lead he will just try to protect it. Atletico is far superior to Lanus, as both times they were behind showed. But when they had the aggregate lead they played ultra cowardly. Levir has done this so many times, and lost titles because of it, that his nickname for a while was Levice (Brazilian league runner up after starting the final 2-0, twice runner up of the Brazilian cup after initially being up in the final, runner up in Mercosur cup after leading in the first match, etc). You'd figured that after a while he'd learn. edit: as I was posting, the TV is showing Ronaldinho going from player to player, giving them a hug and saying a bunch of stuff. People on the radio saying it might be goodbye. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 04:37
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Ronaldinho has officially left Atletico. They claim it was a "friendly" parting of ways, and a press conference on wednesday will explain all the details.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:19
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