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The Iron Rose posted:Exactly, I agree entirely! Primaris Marines would have been a good opportunity to do something like this, but at the same time I have doubts that breaking up the homogenization of Space Marines or the Sisters of Battle would really serve narrative interests. It would serve a heterogeneous power fantasy, that's true, but would also disrupt the existing power fantasies of each group. I think that it would humanize them and make them too similar to each other and the Imperial Guard. Without the gender differences and the monk/nun culture, they're just generic sci-fi soldiers. And I think that authors and players would find it difficult to resist genderizing their interactions, which wouldn't be wanted either. If Primaris Marines had been made hetero-gendered, they would be seen as culturally very different from the traditional Adeptus Astartes. I think that it would be better to focus on improving the female models and characterization in other areas of the universe. Kaal fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 21:18
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The Iron Rose posted:Yeah that was why I was like "what" about all that! it'd be pretty dumb to change every space marine chapter now, that's a good 30 years too late. It's an established part of the lore and not something that's really worth changing. But if you're introducing a new breed of space marine anyways, and given it'd make a lot of sense lore wise... Why not just make them normal, well-adjusted human beings at that point? Because basically what you're describing are HALO Spartans - power armored super soldiers with generic personalities. I don't see the upside here. The Baroque neoclassical mentality mimicking medieval structures and cultural mores is a defining element of the Space Marines / Sisters of Battle. Removing that distinction by making Woke Marines seems more disruptive than anything else. I mean I recognize that all you're wanting to do is break up the boys club and be more inclusive, but unfair exclusivity and gender norm enforcement is part of the dystopia fiction. Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 23:22
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Cythereal posted:But when do the Space Marines ever actually act like monks, or even knights? They're just generic overmuscled dudebros who just have weird names for poo poo as far as their actual portrayals as characters go. It's very rare to see one who actually lives up to the fluff. They do it all the time? They're constantly chanting hymns, inscribing artifacts, making penance, etc. All of their buildings and equipment are themed around a monastic life. Their daily schedules are explicitly ordered in a way that parodies living in a monastery. All that being said, this sort of thing is always bad PR for any company, and probably would result in lots of enthusiastic yet terrible fan fiction. If I were advising GW I'd suggest heading off the problem by implying some level of gene variance in the Primaris Marines that results in the occasional female candidate. Some chapters accept them and others don't. Let player interest dictate how much farther to take it. Kaal fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 23:37
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Xae posted:Traveling from monastery and monastery solving mysterious crimes? The series is set during the early 35K, in the fictional Terran village of Kriegsford, where Father Brownius, Brother-Chaplain of the Imperial Fists, solves murder cases. This is much to the exasperation of a bumbling Inquisitor who often arrests the wrong suspect. Father Brownius uses the distinctive skills of his close friends as well as his own wits to solve cases, occasionally to the neglect of his more mundane parish duties. His vocation as a Chaplain often gives him an insight to the truth, so that justice (but occasionally, not the letter of the law) may be served; also in this regard, obeying the Seal of the Confessional often presents unique circumstances. The time period is during the Imperium's emergence from the hardships of the Horus Heresy. The death penalty, which the relatively sympathetic Father Brownius only supports in 95% of cases, is still in effect for capital crimes such as murder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Brown_(2013_TV_series)
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Jun 8, 2017 23:55
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The Iron Rose posted:nah actually, the imperium is a dystopia but it's never been one that's reflected real world issues in the day to day. It's never trafficked in overt racism or the enforcement of gender norms other than with Space Marines and male authors writing about male characters. But I have to say I really like the implication that making some Primaris Marines female is equivalent to turning 40k into Halo, good grief y'all get mad about someone breaking up the boys club. I don't think anyone suggested that the fiction reflects the real world in any particular way. But obviously there is unfairness and discrimination throughout the universe. Slavery is endemic throughout the empire, the Imperium hunts down heretics and mutants with brutal force, and the system as a whole is an unforgiving oligarchy that shrugs at individual rights or suffering. So dividing the power armor folks into Space Marines for boys, Sisters of Battle for girls, certainly works within that system. It really does seem that your suggested retcons only serve to make the Space Marines even more generic than they already are, and you haven't really explained why that would be a good narrative addition besides it appealing to your preferred power fantasy. You don't need to get mad about it, just recognize that it would also have negative effects to other parts of the fiction that you are ignoring because you apparently don't care about them.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:15
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:The good Black Library books make me wonder if there are other fun and readable examples of genre fiction novels out there. Once upon a time I wrote off the whole mess as being just stories about plastic dolls, but thankfully I gave ABD and Abnett a chance. Are there other examples of books about licensed properties out there that are as good as what those guys put out? This isn't quite genre fiction, but James Doohan (Scotty from Star Trek:TOS) collaborated with S.M. Stirling on a great military sci-fi trilogy called the Flight Engineer series, where the protagonist is a lead engineer / ex-fighter pilot on a space carrier. If conducting a murder investigation amidst a military campaign in a relativistic universe sounds interesting to you, check out Rising - the first book. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0671878492/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=88ZQXE4B462PBY9B5QW7&dpPl=1&dpID=51VTXKHHQWL
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Jun 13, 2017 02:27
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Arcsquad12 posted:Shot in the dark for writing advice, but I'm writing a gimmick about how space marines might get around other people listening in on their vox channels. My idea was basically that the Marines would mask their signal by flooding the channels with static and relying on their enhanced hearing to make out communications. Does that make sense or would it make more sense for them to communicate with a series of blips hidden in the static so they follow codes instead of actually trying to talk? Masking the signal by hearing audio through the static is quite clever. Depending on the writing style, it probably would be a good idea to also include technical details to indicate they are also using standard encryption and compression techniques.
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Jun 14, 2017 03:25
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funmanguy posted:I would also like to know what the gently caress a machine spirit is. It's as he suggests: While there are a handful of AIs still in operation, the vast majority of "machine spirits" are mere exercises in anthropomorphism by a scientifically ignorant society. Think of an old car that is lovely maintained by her owner: When "Betsy" is acting up that really means that there is a malfunction - only few people in the Imperium are capable of understanding the distinction. They're told to take machine spirits literally and thus they experience them as such. When you factor in all the levels of automation, pre-programming, and virtual intelligence that is present, it's no wonder that there's confusion on the matter for the average user. Kaal fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 03:54
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Uncle w Benefits posted:How do they come to be infested wih nids and genestealers? WH40K Wiki posted:Many Space Hulks are known to be breeding grounds for the Tyranid species known to the Imperium as the Genestealers, often being the product of a starship inflicted with a Genestealer infestation where the Genestealers took over and killed the crew. It is even suspected by the Adeptus Mechanicus' Magos that the Tyranid Hive Mind implants Genestealers to lay in stasis on Space Hulks to serve as unwitting living vanguards for a nearby Tyranid Hive Fleet intent on finding new worlds to consume. Congruent with the expansive bio-mass consumption of the Tyranids, these Genestealer-infested Space Hulks are doubly dangerous for the cargo they may contain and the Hive Fleets they could psychically call upon an inhabited planet. It basically sounds like Genestealers get onto a vessel, take over and kill the crew while it is in warp, and then it just floats around and combines with other warp debris into a Space Hulk while the Tyranids hang out in stasis waiting for the next face to grab. But it is odd that they are such a fixture of the Space Hulk concept, because Tyranids don't have any ability to enter the Warp independently. I'd assume that it basically comes down to writers wanting to reenact Aliens 2.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:17
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Groetgaffel posted:A bit too on the nose perhaps, yeah. Didn't bother me overly much though, I always had the impression that the old important dudes used to be on the highest echelons of the old Legion reading Storm of Iron. This is the Imperial Truth right here. It's bizarre to have the books skip over so much storytelling, only to grind through the same plotline (treachery by a secret order, loyalist survivors discover that Chaos is real bad) over and over as Horus' attack slowly makes its attack on Terra. I think a lot of it stems from not knowing how they want to portray the emperor, and so any story that would feature him keeps getting kicked down the road. But they need to figure it out, because he's at the center of so much of the mythology. Kaal fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 13:32
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Popete posted:But Horus Rising is one of the good books? I thought the consensus was Dan Abnett books were always worth reading. Horus Rising is good but exemplifies Abnett's issues with pacing. And in a 50 book series that is otherwise incredibly slow and overbaked, it's quite clear that the book skims over a time period that deserves more attention. In retrospect, it's obvious that Horus Rising was written as the beginning of perhaps a trilogy. It's unfortunate that we see so little of the Great Crusade or Horus' fall, especially when later authors spend multiple books rehashing the beginning of the betrayal over and over from the perspectives of different chapters. Abnett sort of remedies this later with books that are set far enough away from the uprising that they're able to show more of Great Crusade and explore different ideas, but he's already trapped into that framework. And Horus going from frustrated do-gooder to evil despot in the course of a single fever dream is absurd and forever taints a crucial character. Kaal fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 20:03
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I've never been one to scrutinize the 40k art over concerns of realism, but the first thing that stood out to me as a kid was how any guns at all in the 40k universe could possibly be sustained over comparatively tiny magazines that - looking at the apparent caliber of the guns - couldn't possibly hold more than like 5 rounds or something. Good organization 
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Aug 23, 2018 18:22
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Galvanik posted:In First Heretic was it ever explained why the newly possessed Word Bearer's didn't use their Sus-an Membrane to hibernate for the 7 month trip out of the Eye of Terror to reduce the need for food and water, or did the author just forget that they can do that? My take was that the author just forgot it was possible, since all the hardship was basically described as being due to extreme starvation and dehydration, which of course Space Marines are immune to because of their magic space genetics. That whole story was deep into the realm of science fantasy/horror though, where all the normal humans died from "extreme fear" and somehow lost all of their blood, so the Space Marines had to drink motor oil or whatever to replace their bodily fluids. They get back and report "well that sucked" and their Primarch just decides to repeat their entire trip himself.
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Nov 28, 2019 06:09
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Relevant Tangent posted:Aside from Horus who is the hardest Primarch to justify coming back into the fold? "That's Angron, he's super angry about Chaos so the Emperor blessed him with a warform." vs "That's Mortarion he uh cures diseases now I guess?" Lorgar for sure, in my opinion. He's the worst of the bunch by far, in no small part because he started the whole mess and went in with his eyes wide open. If the WH40k story was the bible, and Horus was evil Jesus, then Lorgar and Erebus are Adam and Eve eating every apple in the tree just to piss off the God Emperor. Lorgar had every opportunity to take a different path, and had decades to consider his course of action before being committed to it. Angron is a bloodthirsty lunatic, and Mortarion is an angsty sociopath, but ultimately they're products of their environment that are so amoral in character that they don't seem that difficult to bring back into the fold. All they need is Emperor-approved butterflies to pull wings off of, and they'd be perfectly happy. Characters like Lorgar, Fulgrim, and Horus make ethical choices during the development of the heresy and ultimately make the decision to burn the galaxy in their pursuit of power - they could never be redeemed and would never want to be. Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Dec 3, 2019 |
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Dec 2, 2019 21:40
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PantsOptional posted:Internet speculation/wishfulness. Yeah. It's hard to see how a redemption arc would get brought into 40k. If there was one, it would probably somehow be Horus, because only his repudiation of chaos could truly bring the rebellion to an end.
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Dec 3, 2019 18:42
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That sounds like a quite principled set of objections, but like most of the fallen primarchs it's pretty much impossible to square their later actions with their alleged motivations. I mean this is a guy who kills both civilians and fellow Space Marines for fun - before joining Chaos. The "wise Spartacus" Angron is neat, but he has nothing in common with the "nihilistic butcher" or the chaotic "blood for the blood god" poster-boy. He might complain about how military tithes amount to slavery, but that certainly doesn't justify making mountains out of conquered skulls or planting mind-control rage implants into his soldiers.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 09:02
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In truth it's rich to hear any Space Marine, much less a Primarch, complain about how restricted they are. They're waited on hand and foot and have virtually unlimited authority, and are basically treated as ubermensch, while the rest of humanity largely scrapes by in abject poverty and impotence. And that's before considering that the rebels immediately threw any principles into the fire and went full chaotic evil on Day 1 of the heresy. I've liked reading the Horus Heresy books but every time an author tries to justify the rebels it's just totally eyerolling.
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Dec 20, 2019 20:42
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Biplane posted:What about Space Marine cum? Sadly Male Compensation Theory makes it clear that Space Marines have absolutely no penis.
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Aug 13, 2020 21:51
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Galvanik posted:Eventually a new status quo is reached and the Eldar psychic gestalt coalesces into Slaanesh, while the simpler human outlook ends up reforming the remainder of the warp to better express our souls. Thus the birth of Slaanesh was also the birth of the current versions of Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch. I believe it's established that Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch were all born during the European medieval ages, with each emergence heralding another catastrophe for Britain (the Norman Invasion, the Black Death, and the War of the Roses). Whether this was a coincidence or a reflection of English terribleness, is unknown. But it is apparent that these Marmite-flavored Chaos Gods had difficulty propagating, and it took the fall of the Eldar / French for Slaanesh to be born and teach her brethren how to make little khornites, nurglings, and tzeentches. If it weren't for them, the warp would probably be filled with bad food and croquet.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:32
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Brendan Rodgers posted:No this has long been 100% nuked into retcon hell, like a lot of the page(s). Gross. Good thing we now at the least have plenty of material about Grey Knight Super Saiyan Space Marine HEROES. The Knights of Space can withstand the forces of page 666 and be uniquely unaffected!
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Aug 17, 2020 23:58
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Kindle Paperwhites are probably what you're looking for. Amazon just started its Black Friday sale so it's a good time to buy. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/amazon-kindle-is-the-best-ebook-reader/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-amazon-kindle-paperwhite-case/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 03:23
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I will grant you that Angron was basically hosed from Day 1, though. I don't know about that. Angron is basically Evil Spartacus, and there's a lot of versions of that story which don't end with him deciding that the slavers were right, everyone deserves chains, and human life is worthless.
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Dec 29, 2020 01:44
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:spartacus didn't have the portions of his brain that can feel emotions other than pain and rage surgically excised, though I mean he's a primarch, I'm sure he'd be ok. They get shot in the head, their hearts ripped out, fatally poisoned, etc., and shrug it off. Angron gets stepped on by a titan at one point and he was totally fine. Even if it actually was unremovable due to "archeotech" hand-waving, he still has plenty of agency both before and after implantation. All the other primarchs were easily capable of bootstrapping themselves to planet-wide domination, but he was only interested in being a top gladiator and just didn't care about anyone except his one friend. That was totally on him. And later on when he was leading a legion he could have treated his Butcher's Nails like a Crown of Thorns - enduring pain for the benefit of his followers. There's plenty of examples of heroes that have to bear some sort of terrible burden. Instead he just continued treating everyone like they were devoid of value. The helmet has really done nothing to change his behavior - it's hard to have much sympathy for him. He might have been more railroaded than the rest of the chaos primarchs, but they're all hyper-privileged shits.
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Dec 29, 2020 03:11
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I understand the lore just fine, I'm just objecting to simplistic writing that doesn't stop to think about what they're saying. Primarchs recover from impossible injuries all the time, except apparently one that causes PTSD. I mean the Imperial Fists intentionally wear pain gloves that do exactly the same thing as a Butcher's Nail - but apparently Angron can't handle it? Ok sure. And then the Emperor tries to fix it, decides he can't but that it somehow isn't an issue, recognizes that Angron hates everyone and him in particular, and then decides to fast track his command? Alrighty. These are eye-rolling outcomes though I can accept them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to be in any way sympathetic with Angron throwing a Primarch-sized pout when he's expected to think of someone other than just himself. The World Eaters are my favorite Chaos Legion, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize Angron for being the pathetic useless bully that he is.
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Dec 29, 2020 04:31
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"I have crippling entitlement issues despite my incredible privilege so I guess I gotta murder billions of people now, YOU MADE ME DO THIS DAD".
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Dec 29, 2020 05:13
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Yeah good point Angron has a migraine and Curze has spooky dreams, I guess that justifies putting everyone else in torture pits. Truly they are misunderstood. Clearly I just couldn't understand the deep lore there.
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Dec 29, 2020 06:41
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Guyver posted:Daemons are ourselves made manifest and xenos are alien filth who exist only to be purged in the name of the dark gods and Chaos Undivided. I suppose that means that Slaaneshi Noise Marines are also xeno traitors in the eyes of Chaos Marines.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:04
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MariusLecter posted:super thin against a similar or more powerful force. Writer's block
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Feb 3, 2021 04:12
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL7mPADOAY0 I enjoy that they leaned in to the whole "these are basically action figures" feeling. The next model should have light up Plasma Destructors and a button that makes it shout "For the Emperor!"
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Apr 12, 2021 19:34
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Arquinsiel posted:It's what happened to the guy who does the One Man Star Wars show too. Lucasfilm asked him to put it on for them at an event prior to the Disney buy out and then basically after the performance he got to meet a bunch of company bigwigs and some lawyer said "that's a really great show! If you want to keep doing it we'll be taking 20%" and that was that. They resolved their licensing issues and he's been performing it for a decade without issue.
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May 21, 2021 04:51
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Brendan Rodgers posted:My ironic headcanon for the End Times is definitely Kruber becoming the Emperor of the Empire and Bretonnia and a beloved friend of Lustria, after saving the world. I think my preferred headcanon is that Sigmar is probably Leman Russ, and that the Emperor sent him on a quest to protect a world in the Eye of Terror that was critical to his Webway Project.
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May 30, 2021 05:26
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Shroud posted:I could buy him being a Custodes. Valdor could probably handle a planet on his own, and as a bonus, this is why no one knew (until Penitent) where he went. I could definitely see that.
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May 30, 2021 18:26
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Zasze posted:The perpetuals are such a bad story hook, they make the world feel smaller and less dynamic and every reveal about them is somehow worse and more boring than the last. Yeah Perpetuals are full stop stupid. In my headcanon they're just crazy street preachers who are full of poo poo.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:14
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Also as far as I'm aware humanity colonized the entire galaxy during the Age of Technology, whereas the Imperium was still expanding during the Horus Heresy and never explored the furthest reaches. So there are certainly uncontacted human worlds out there - albeit ones that may have already been invaded by other groups.
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Jul 3, 2021 19:51
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There's two progenoid glands that typically get harvested at death, but they're like testes and they each contain multitudes. The Apothecaries harvest the stem cells and culture them into new gene seed organs. Each Astartes can create many more, though it takes 10 years for the full cycle.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 12:38
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Pictures like that are cool but also demonstrate a poor understanding of galactic scale. That would be like 100 trillion tyranid for every guardsman. They'd collapse under their own logistical needs.
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Sep 1, 2021 12:42
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NihilCredo posted:That white enamel paint gives me Horizon: Zero Dawn vibes. It looks cool but much too clean and sleek for Orcs. I rather agree with that. It looks like something the Tau would have made, and probably the thing to do would be to emphasize that these Orks had repurposed Tau wreckage as armor for their Squig, rather than painted everything themselves.
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Sep 21, 2021 13:13
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euphronius posted:Are orc worlds even salvageable? Or do you just write them off forever. Just spray some Roundup and you're good to go.
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Sep 22, 2021 13:53
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Preechr posted:Lotta people want to learn how the Land Raider got its name. The Master of Mankind's real name is Michael Aster of Mank, Indiana.
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Sep 24, 2021 18:40
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Kurzon posted:I had this conversation on Reddit about the extent of Dune's influence on WH40K. While WH40K does crib things from Dune, I don't think it was the primary influence on WH40K, and I got downvoted to the Realm of Chaos for that. So I want to get your opinions. I totally agree with you, for what it's worth. I'm not really sure there's a particular literary influence on WH40k since there are so many authors and books involved in the storytelling. Dune is only superficially similar - no one would accuse WH40k of being Lawrence of Arabia in space. Certainly WH40k cribbed ideas from it, but it has drawn from many, many sources over the years. Warhammer Fantasy was clearly based on LOTR, and WH40k is generally a transposition of Warhammer Fantasy into sci-fi, so that would probably be the biggest progenitor, but even then I'd really hesitate to say that WH40k is particularly Tolkeinesque. Many comparisons have been made between WH40k and 2000 AD / Judge Dredd, and I'd say that it probably had the most influence in terms of the overall aesthetic for WH40k. A lot of the stories that are in those comics would translate really well into the WH40k universe. Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 16:59
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