Fiction Writing: Advice and Discussion

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Fiction Writing: Advice and Discussion

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Cardinal Ximenez posted:

Does anyone have any experience with the Linux port? It looks interesting, but I'm not going to spend $40 without a significant chance of it working.

It gives you 30 days grace to try it out (and not consecutive days either; days of use).

Runcible Cat fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 16, 2012

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 16:47

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 04:20

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Riddley Walker is another example - it's a loving amazing piece of work, and one of Hoban's stated objectives in writing it in Riddley's phonetic future slang was to slow the reader down to Riddley's speed of comprehension. (Riddley isn't stupid, but his world and background's very limited.)

But you basically have to be a poet to do it to that extent and make it work - the rhythm of the words has to carry the reader along, since comprehension sometimes takes a while, or comes on more than one level.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2012 21:37

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Ingram posted:

I've started a story with an idea I had and I'm starting to doubt myself in the validity of my idea. I'm really facing an internal struggle with my brain trying to connect the dots.

How much suspension of belief can I expect to get away with? Considering I'm dealing with science fiction/space stuff that is unexplained.

General gist of my story: Current day setting, a sudden and unexplained event occurs that blacks out the sky plunging the world into darkness (but maybe not forever). Unsure how far to technically explain this in the story (space dust cloud?). The story is ultimately about survival and the fall of civilisation. Obviously when you take away something as important as the sun you're faced with various issues. I'm not getting much information from Google but I've found a few speculative articles regarding what would happen to the planet if the sun vanished (world would mostly freeze over in 45 days or more.)

Sorry for ranting about my current dilemma.

Well, if your cloud just blocks out visible light and allows infrared light through we probably wouldn't freeze, if that helps. (Though plant life would be royally hosed, so bye-bye oxygen in the not-so-long run, and IR imagers would be at a premium.)

But yes, as said it's SF, and if SF is any one thing it's working out the consequences of implausibilities. You don't have to explain it in-story, especially if you're writing about people who could reasonably be expected to have no idea about what the hell just happened. You could make a thing out of if you wanted; everyone's got their own theory; one saw a report about an approaching Soot Comet, one read an article about this experiment at fixing the ozone layer so it must have been that failing, one guy's cousin told him he found a dying scientist who told him it was the Illuminati lizard NWO packaging the Earth for transport to the Galactic Centre. If you're focusing on people surviving rather than fixing it then you don't need to know what caused it.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2012 20:28

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Nirvikalpa posted:

Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? I don't really like reading other fiction works that much, but I don't have any other outlet for expressing my ideas besides prose. Is there any other resource I can turn to besides reading other people's works? I seriously don't remember the last time I really enjoyed reading a novel.

The only qualification for being a novelist is to write novels.

Though if you're not reading what other people write you'll miss out on tricks of the trade to swipe, as well as running the risk of writing stuff that seems fresh and exciting to you but that everyone else has read three million times already and doesn't ever want to see again, let alone pay money for. Assuming you want to be a novelist who gets paid for it....

Resources in what sense? There are endless How To Write Fiction books out there, if that's what you mean.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2012 20:23

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Am I the only one curious about what she might produce?

OK, I know with 99.999% certainty that if it were ever written (a <1% chance in itself, given that words in a row nauseate her) it would be some ghastly Methods of Rationality/Fountainhead/twee philosophy thing with talking animals mashup, but 99.999% of all outsider art is a waste of atoms. There's still the occasional one that's fascinatingly unlike anything else.

Though I guess realistically anyone obsessively focussed enough to write an entire novel while loathing the artform wouldn't be posting for reassurance on an internet forum. Never mind, I'll just go try reading Oahspe again....

# ¿ Sep 9, 2012 12:12

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Stuporstar posted:

I wanted to like China Mieville because his settings are like gothic cathedrals filled with gargoyles. Unfortunately, so is his prose.

I enjoyed a lot of Kraken for the Londonness, the loopy cults - he has a cult of Sredni Vashtar in it! - that his people actually talk like people, and the glory that is Wati, the union-organising ushabti, but I kept grinding to a halt whenever he seemed to decide, "I must stick a few paragraphs of ELEGANT DESCRIPTIVE PROSE in! Because I am LITERARY and a PROPER WRITER!" Clunk clunk thud. (The noise describes both his prose and me bashing my head against the nearest convenient flat hard thing.)

As for recommendations the best new non-Tolkein-y fantasy I've read for ages is Jesse Bullingham's The Enterprise of Death - same guy who wrote The Sad Tale of the Brothers Grossbart, but with a much more sympathetic heroine, who just happens to raise the dead, drink a lot and chase women.

Other non-Tolkien fantasy:

Angela Carter; Magic Realism before it became A Thing. I don't think she ever wrote anything not worth reading, but you could start with her short stories.

Jack Vance; no trace whatsoever of Tolkien and thesaurus abuse that makes the thesaurus beg for more. The Dying Earth and Lyonesse books are a good place to begin.

Susanna Clarke; Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. Footnotes! I'm kind of a footnotes nerd, and while Nabokov's Pale Fire is the literary apex of footnotes (and has some claim to being a Ruritanian fantasy... oh, read that too. It takes too long to explain. And Nabokov is an awesome writer).

R. A. Lafferty; anything you can get your hands on, really - I prefer his short stories, but either way you've never read anything like them. He takes insane inventiveness to whole new levels.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2012 10:04

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

I Am Hydrogen posted:

What's the consensus on quotation marks?

Depends on the writer. I've never read McCarthy (yet), but Roddy Doyle does it and I think it works for him, but then again his characters speak in distinctive Irish vernacular so it's easy to pick out the speech.

I can see it becoming a really annoying affectation from a bad writer, though. But if you like the minimalism and find you write better dialogue why not? Just check with your beta readers to make sure it comes over as minimalist rather than illiterate.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2012 21:37

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Molly Bloom posted:

Since we're arguing about poo poo, can I ask about white people writing minority characters? I've been reading around on the subject and finding the answer to be a general 'don't do it (unless you have good beta readers from said ethnic group and even then probably not)'.

I know the Thunderdome had a prompt to write as far away from your own experience as possible, but in a more realistic, more publishable way- is it feasible?

Hang on hang on hang on - so white people should never ever write non-white characters? WTF? Should male writers never write female characters (or vice versa) too? Are characters with a sexuality different from the writer's verboten too? Or does it only apply to straight writers in that case?

OK, there's the risk of accidentally writing some godawful racist caricature, but isn't that a reason to not write godawful caricatures, not to not write characters not of your skin colour? There aren't enough non-white characters in mainstream fiction; somebody's got to write them.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2012 12:05

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Plus if your protagonist can do that, why can't everyone else?

# ¿ Oct 21, 2012 10:02

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Novum posted:

Here's the deal. I'm not a writer, I don't think I'm a writer, I'm under no illusions that I have any semblance of talent or technique. With that said, I remember I used to enjoy creative writing a lot when I was in middle school and high school and, until I discovered I could get girls to like me by playing guitar, writing was my favorite hobby. Obviously this totally fell by the wayside in a big way, but I never really forgot how much fun it used to be. Recently my little brother discovered a bunch of my old short stories that I wrote way back then and he told me that he really enjoyed them. Do note that these stories were not at all good and I am not good at writing them, I can objectively say that after having re-read one that he sent me. I was actually pretty embarrassed at how lame and cheesy it was. I decided though that instead of just pointing out all the things I hated about it that I would nut up and put my money where my mouth is and actually try to write some stuff that wasn't terrible. So for the last couple of weeks I've been trying to feed the little guy a chapter a week to see if I can shake off the rust and actually improve my writing skills from a technical standpoint. So far I already feel like I'm starting to have a lot of fun doing it again, and I also feel like a little self awareness will go a long way to actually helping me develop as a writer. So the question is, where should I post my stupid brain spew where I can get some constructive (or destructive, what do I care?)criticism from people who don't mind humoring an absolute novice so that I can make some progress toward being a half-decent story teller?

Read the first post, dude:

Stuporstar posted:

Don't post your fiction here, aside from ~100 word snippets, given for context only. That's what the Daily Writing Thread is for.

(Discovering the joy of paragraphs would help too; blocks of run-on text aren't fun to read.)

# ¿ Nov 4, 2012 11:08

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Tartarus Sauce posted:

The main problem is the one I've identified---not sure if the motivation (encrypting data, but not including the key to the encryption) makes solid logical sense, or if I'm just having characters act mysterious and vaguely dumb so that I can stall for tension purposes. It may also be technologically cumbersome or silly, as well.

Mostly, this is a "logic check." If you read about characters that were acting in this way, would you buy it? Under what circumstances would you buy it?

I'm attempting to avoid the common problem of characters inexplicably doing whatever will either build or release tension for the author's convenience, without proper regard for whether a normal, sane human being would ever behave similarly. If that helps at all.

It's technologically doable, but why would anyone do it except as a stupid plot point and artificial tension creator?

Think about it. You go to the trouble of stealing data from a dangerous company, who are presumably going to be lethally pissed off with you if they find out. Why are you doing this? What do you intend to gain?

If you want to get the information to law enforcement (or other "good guys") then encrypting it is plain cretinous; it just means that you've got to get 2 sets of information to whoever instead of one.

The only way I can think of to make the encryption mcguffin work is if you're blackmailing the original company or selling the data, so you distribute copies of the encrypted files all over the place, then auction the encryption key, arrange for it to be released if you die or disappear, whatever. And that's still stupid, since in these days of fast internet connections you could do exactly that with the original files anyway. Not to mention that once UnethicalCo discover the data's out there they'll go balls-out to cover things up and make sure it's useless to whoever has it.

So yeah. Bad idea.

(Though on the other hand I've read dumber plots in published novels, so it's not necessarily a dealbreaker if all you want is to get published and plot logic be damned.)

# ¿ Nov 8, 2012 10:27

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Tiggum posted:

It'll probably still be full of plot holes though, because that is needlessly convoluted, and it does remove the whistelblower from further action (at least until the plot is pretty much resolved).

Yeah, it still has the problem of why give them the key instead of the data.

"He put the data in a zip archive and we don't have the password!" :derp:

# ¿ Nov 8, 2012 13:55

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Tartarus Sauce posted:

Naturally, this opens up into an exposition dump, because now the whistleblower has a chance (and a need) to explain everything he knows. So, again, this raises the question of, Why Don't You Just Tip Off the Police, Morons?

Or, if they don't know how high the corruption goes, Why Don't You Put All The Data Up On Wikileaks?

# ¿ Nov 8, 2012 19:05

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

sebmojo posted:

You could go the Gene Wolfe route and use words that are obscure and archaic - it works very well in Book of the New Sun.

I've got a wonderfully loony Victorian dictionary somewhere, written by a bloke who wanted to purge the English language of foul Latin, so it's made up of alternatives to Latin words using Anglo-Saxon/Germanic roots instead.

OK, he was probably some ghastly proto-Nazi Nordic supremacist, but it's a great source of words that sound familiar but kind of archaic and unusual.

ETA: Lost Beauties of the English Language, by Charles Mackay. Huh, I'd forgotten he was the same guy who wrote Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds....

Runcible Cat fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 3, 2013

# ¿ Feb 3, 2013 21:41

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

theworstname posted:

Souls? In science-fiction?
Souls are the domain of Science-Fiction's older hunchbacked brother Fantasy, and their beautiful but mildly retarded inbred offspring Science-Fantasy.

Souls of the dead possess the living and the living's biotech. (It's awesome up until the lovely ending, if anyone's curious.)

# ¿ Feb 5, 2013 10:30

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

theworstname posted:

If it is a science-fiction setting that treats souls as quantifiable, accountable stuff rather than just the ruminations of the characters I would argue that it is in fact science-fantasy.

I think you may be being a bit strict about your fictional science there; do you also consider anything involving FTL travel to be science fantasy?

(Yeah, I know there's no Officially Sanctioned Definition of where the line lies, I'm just curious about where people draw it.)

# ¿ Feb 5, 2013 10:53

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

theworstname posted:

I only world-build as much as necessary for a story, otherwise a lot of time gets wasted on stuff that isn't relevant. The same applies to research.
I would use various tools to help accelerate the process if the purpose of a story demands a large amount of world-building.

This one time, I spent days trying to figure out if a protagonist could see his city of origin a long ways off from the top of a mountain.
Me and a friend banged our heads together and eventually came up with the following workable equation:

D = √H(2r+H)

D = distance
H = height
r = radius (planet)

Pretty neat, too bad readers don't care about exact distances.

There's always one who'll send you a 50-page screed on how the curvature of your planet derived from this and that throwaway reference and the climate from yadda yadda amount of cloud seen from typical dragonback ride would make it IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE THAT FROM THERE and YOU RUINED THE IMMERSION RIGHT THERE BUSTER.

Just ask yourself how much you care about that person's opinions.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2013 21:47

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

squeegee posted:

I don't really agree with this. I guess it depends on what kind of fiction you're writing (I don't write genre stuff, just "general" fiction), but a skilled writer can get these details across while things are actually happening in the story. I mean, you might not want to open with "Suddenly, to Steve's surprise, The Kool-Aid man burst the gently caress through the wall", but you don't need to spend several paragraphs going through Steve's morning routine before it happens, either.

If Steve's morning routine tells you something about what kind of person Steve is and what kind of world he's in it can work, but if it's just a spinning hourglass of Steve brushing his teeth until the ACTION! busts in ugh no.

Samuel Goldwyn: "Start with an earthquake and work your way up to a climax!"

# ¿ Mar 19, 2013 20:13

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Great Horny Toads! posted:

I don't have a copy of The Hobbit or LOTR kicking around, but, if I remember correctly, Tolkien lets us know that hobbits are little, furry people who love them some comfort and stability before Gandalf comes knocking. We don't know much more, but a state is established before it's upset. That's what I was getting at.

Bear in mind that fantasy books from before when fantasy became A Genre do tend to have really slow lead-ins by modern standards - if you read, say, The Worm Ouroboros or The Night Land you get a first chapter of setup about a contemporary guy having Visions or Astrally Projecting To The Planet Mercury and This Is What He Saw which is promptly forgotten as soon as the actual story kicks in. This wouldn't fly for a second these days.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2013 09:55

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

systran posted:

I was just thinking of his actual writing when I read that: When he describes every banner present during a battle for two pages. It's a strong example of how over describing can slow your plot and make things difficult for the reader.

Hasn't hurt his sales, though. His readers either don't mind, feel the rest of it makes up for it or horrors! actually like it.

Full disclosure: read 2 chapters of first book, got bored, didn't pick it up again for months, eventually gave it to a charity shop, so I'm in no position to comment on Martin's writing or why people like it.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 09:03

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 04:20

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

Overwined posted:

It's nothing new that blabby writers often enjoy great popularity. They never last in anyone's mind, though.

Not all of us are hoping to write for the ages, you know - the bestseller lists and a TV series sound pretty sweet to me.

Plus ahahaha. I take it you've never read Tristram Shandy, for starters.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2013 21:31

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