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Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
The EQS is electric so there isn't really anything user serviceable under the hood.

As to how you refill the washer fluid they took inspiration from the common washing machine:

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Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
I've always said that theres not a thing a truck can do that a proper van can't do better! I guess trucks are better offroad in general but you can get offroad vans as well.
Trucks are better for cruising around town lifted and chromed out doing 15 mph because otherwise the truck shakes itself apart!

I'm waiting on tricked out vans to cruise around town to become a thing though!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Large Testicles posted:

I'll never set foot in a Tesla. I don't trust their build quality or the self driving bullshit.

My best friend bought one and asked if I wanted to go for a ride and I told him I'd rather not die in a lithium fire and he hasn't talked about his piece of poo poo car since.

EVs are less likely to catch fire than IC vehicles. Yes even Teslas. The reason you hear about every Tesla fire is because articles about Tesla bring a shitton more clicks than an article about a Camry catching fire.


I think its pretty sad that a garbage company like Tesla has established them self so much as THE company that builds EVs. When you tell someone that maybe they should get an EV because of high gas prices they're all like "I can't afford a Tesla!!!". Well get something else then! There are cheaper options you know! Even in the US!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Motronic posted:

Why is that? I'd love to know the answer.

Perhaps, and I'm just some firefighter who has put out hundreds of cars over the years, it's because EV fires are nasty as gently caress just like all metal fires. Where I can put out a fully involved car fire in about 90 seconds with two dudes, 100 gallons of water and a few gallons of foam a fully involved ev fire is going to extend to the batteries. Cue needing a couple thousand gallons of water and several hours before it's safe enough to put on a tow truck.

I'd guess several reasons. Some may skew the statistics a bit like the fact that EV tend to be newer cars so there aren't as much old rear end badly maintained beaters around like with IC cars (Although the Leaf and the Zoe have been sold for quite some time now and aren't exploding left and right).

I'd say with an EV its just much harder to actually get the fire started. There needs to be a manufacturing defect in the cells or mechanical damage to them. And even then Manufacturers are starting to build systems that can handle some cells starting to freak out and overheat without the whole car going up in flames. With an IC car you got all that piping and filters and pumps and if any of those hoses or connectors fail you start spraying flammable liquid everywhere. Especially with modern high pressure fuel system. Not saying that any fuel leak leads to a fire but if its in a bad spot poo poo goes south fast. Theres just a ton more points of failure on an IC car.
But yeah when en EV gets going it loving goes!

Kinda curios how Sodium-Ion batteries are gonna turn out. As far as i know those don't produce their own oxygen when overheating so the fire risk should be significantly lower even when the cells are compromised.

Shai-Hulud fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Apr 11, 2022

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Motronic posted:

Yes. Newer. This is the reason.

Exactly how do you think car fires usually start? By this, you seem to think EV fires start in the battery cells. While that happens, that's not USUALLY how it happens. Just like fuel tanks in ICE car's don't spontaneously explode.

Do you have any training or experience, or are you just posting what you think sounds right?

Because your feeling on this don't match up to my training nor my experience as a firefighter or fire investigator.

Stationary car fires usually start in the 12v electrical system. It's usually on older cars but not always. It's usually some manner of manufacturing defect often latent like a harness chaffing that takes a decade to finally fail enough to arc/heat and catch something around it (like carpeting) on fire.

For non-stationary ignitions it's also usually the 12v electrical system due to mechanical damage.

EVs have the same 12v electrical system.

Actual gasoline is not often a contributor. It may be a contributing factor/second point of ignition on things with both and electrical fault and fuel leak/spilling. The amount of fuel under the hood of a car, regardless of high pressure fuel systems or a mechanical pump from the 40s is minimal and causes no real difference. Gas vapors burn quickly and are simply gone. Fuel tanks rarely light off, even in fully involved car fires. Tanks are surprisingly well designed on modern cars. Some have problems. Sometimes impact damage just takes out an entire tank and you have nothing but fuel all over the road and it goes up in a big woof. But it's rare.

And back to EVs: when they are fully involved like this their batteries very often do go woof. And keep on burning. And strip oxygen from the water we are using to suppress the fire and burn even hotter to the point where we have to use hundreds of gallons per minute for an extended period of time to have a chance at reducing the temperature enough to stop the fire. This is very much like trying to put out magnesium fires. Old VW beetles were always a pain in the rear end. Higher end cars often still have magnesium wheels. Higher enter convertibles have magnesium structures in the tops. None of this is as bad or as much as an EV battery fire.

You are weirdly confrontational about this. Sorry about talking about car fires i guess?

The, i think often cited, NFPA study says a lot of fires are caused by mechanical malfunction and that flammable liquids are often the first thing that ignites. But that obviously for moving cars and not stationary ones. Yes it also says that older cars catch fire a lot more often. I don't think anyone has collected the data on older EVs about that. Stuff like Leafs, Zoes and Model S are approaching that 10 year mark where, i think, a lot of people let maintenance start to slide so it will be interesting to see how they fare.

I'm perfectly willing to be educated about this stuff from someone obviously knowledgeable. Maybe just try to sound less like a dick about it? We're all friends here trying to talk about burning down cars!

Oh also a question. Is it not relatively common for EV fires to start after a crash because of a damaged traction battery? Couldn't find anything about that really. I would have guessed that would be a pretty common case compared to the other car systems.

Shai-Hulud fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Apr 11, 2022

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
But as far as I can tell those studies aren't taking the age of the car into account. So while the statement that EVs catch fire more rarely than IC cars is true, it might not be true compared to IC cars of the same age.
Mind you it might still be true compared to brand new gas cars, but as far as i can tell no one has the data on that.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Humphreys posted:

Right thread because they just bolted poo poo on without discussing HOW it will actually be controlled.

To be fair, the video where they actually drive it isn't out yet. We'll see if they actually show something or if its only gonna be short shots of driving 3 meters straight forward with quick cuts to hide it.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

MetaJew posted:

Is everyone forgetting that GM killed several boomers who didn't know about themanual door releases under the seats?

The model Y's rear door release being hidden in the door is egregious but GM was doing this poo poo years before Tesla.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-man-72-dies-trapped-corvette-dream-car-article-1.2253934

Yeah but that's not getting the engagement that every single Tesla news item gets! You could have e-trons (or any car really) burning down left and right and there wouldn't be nearly as much news as a single Tesla having a crash they might or might not have caused themselves.
It brings out the rabid Tesla haters and the rabid Tesla fanboys and that makes the metrics go up.
And as long as the metrics go up you can justify your paycheck as an online "writer".

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Large Testicles posted:

I'm pretty sure it's a very miniscule amount of people who hate Teslas for being Teslas and the majority of the hate is Musk being an unrepentant piece of poo poo on every single level and then it trickles down to making GBS threads on the cars.

Like literally, Musk is a waste of oxygen and he taints everything he touches.

He's poo poo Midas.

Eh, theres a big crowd of EV haters in general and nothing symbolizes EVs better than Tesla. I mean, there are people running coal on Teslas and scratching them up in the parking lot and poo poo like that. You get people brake checking you and trying to unplug your charging cable at public charging stations.
I doubt these people do it because of Elon Musk. I think its more cause they think EVs are turning the frogs gay or something like that.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
So i think we can all agree that there are plenty of good reasons to hate Teslas!
Also some bad ones so its important that everyone makes an informed decision before they decide to light a car on fire!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Uthor posted:

I think one would serve 99.9% of my needs (other than not being able to charge at my rental home). But, one thing I've been curious about and didn't look into, does the battery capacity drop over time like it does in, say, every phone and laptop I've ever owned? I'd hate to buy one that meets my needs +10% and then the capacity drops to the point where I can't take it to visit my folks. I also assume that one gets less range in the cold during winter?

Yes EVs loose some range over the years. Usually there's some kind of warranty in place with a new EV that promises a certain percentage of capacity after a certain amount of miles and years. If your battery drops under that capacity you get a new battery.
But so far it's extremely rare that a battery looses that much capacity unless it's broken. Renault did a study recently on old Zoe batteries and pretty much all of them far exceeded the expected capacity.
The car can also mitigate some loss because you actually never get to use the full 100% of the battery. A couple percent are always kept as a reserve so that a failing battery cell can be disabled and a reserve one can take it's place.

The driver can also help keep the battery healthy by doing a couple of things like limit the amount of fast charging (heats up the battery, batteries do not like extreme temperatures) or always keep the charge between 10-80%. Presumably that keeps the battery more happy for more longer!

Yes they also loose some range in the cold. Again, batteries would like to stay in the same temperature range that you do.

A useful way of checking if an EV would work for you is, find out the real range of the car (of course manufacturers are lying about the range just as they do about fuel efficiency), take the longest journey you realistically would take without a way of charging and add at least 30% on top of that. You still within the real range? An EV might just work for you!
Theoretically of course cause it's not like you can buy one right now without a two year waiting period!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Galler posted:

Loose rhythms with goose. A bolt that hasn't been tightened is loose.

A battery may lose capacity over time.

Goddammit! English isn't my first language so i spent some time thinking if it was one or two "o". Guess is should've just googled it!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Darchangel posted:



What?
Why on Earth would you not put a keylock on the rear of the car. I don't even...


Key lock? What's that? The only way to put a key in my Scirocco is to pry off a plastic cover off of the driver side door.
I don't even have a button or anything on the trunk. The only way to open it is with a button on the driver side door which pops it enough so that you can jam your fingers underneath the lid and open it. VW really thought that one though!

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
No with the 3 and Y you have a "gear"selector stalk behind the steering wheel. When you push that down twice you engage autopilot. I think with the S/X you need to push the left stalk back.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
My cars official color is Dark Maroon Metallic which, according to the cars documents is brown.

It looks like this:


Yeah no Volkswagen, thats just another dark grey.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Sagebrush posted:

There is one Honda car that has been legally approved as level 3, and only in traffic jams -- in that situation you can sit back and play with your phone. There is no car you can buy that drives level 3 in any other situation.



Mercedes is selling the S class and the EQS with level 3 capability. Only in traffic jams and on specific roads.
At least in Germany. No idea how it is in the US

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
To be fair, those things are prototypes. Tesla themselves probably doesn't even know how this thing actually gonna look when it gets released...checks notes this year? Yeah right...


Edit: Also, wasn't the "it won't have an airbag!!!" Thing just one weird website that claimed it without any actual sources?

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy
Was it? I only ever saw someone saying it on Twitter and linking some website no one ever heard of that had no sources.

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Captain Log posted:

Had it not been for the EV6, I would not have been able to communicate anything about it past, "The door handles were completely flat."

Well it was freezing here last night so while my EV6 managed to pop out the door handles this morning it wasn't able to fold them back in when i started driving. So depending on the weather conditions you might not even have the flush door handles to identify the car :haw:

Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

Rude Dude With Tude posted:

Cars are terrible car stuff? https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/p...ed-for-privacy/

Hooray for the GDPR having some (limited) influence on Euro manufacturers, lol @ Nissan and Kia being creepy little perverts.

My EV6 has a calendar app, and a notepad app and all that poo poo so the companion app on my phone wants access to pretty much everything. And I'm like "No Kia, your app is for starting the AC/Heating from the breakfast table and that's it!"

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Shai-Hulud
Jul 10, 2008

But it feels so right!
Lipstick Apathy

wesleywillis posted:

When I was a kid, I used to think that 4 wheel drive meant a car, or truck I guess because pretty much no cars had 4wd back then meant it could drive sideways.


So gently caress it, make the wheels able to turn 90 degrees in whatever direction and drive sideways. Make my dumb childhood assumption finally come true!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CXNbcz21uY

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