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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I love how Moiraine knows both this and that he was responsible for Taringail's death. It's a mark in his favor if anything. She has a fairly disdainful opinion of the rest of her family.
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Sep 25, 2012 04:05
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Tithin Melias posted:I've been Audiobooking the series in anticipation of the latest book being released, I'm up to book seven and I think I've realized the exact moment the plot goes off the rails - right when RJ starts describing how Aes Sedai rank themselves in priority because half of this book so far had just been "NUH UH I outrank YOU" so far. Giving serious consideration to just skipping to book 11 which is a shame because the audio performance has gotten very very good since its shaky start. This leads to a question: How does an organization with such an idiotic ranking system maintain the sort of control the Aes Sedai have over the kings of Randland? Stupid but powerful people would be constantly coming in and screwing everything up.
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Sep 28, 2012 16:43
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Calenth posted:4) I know I'm biased but I still think Eye holds up really, really drat well for a fantasy novel with 20+ years of age on it. Parts of it are a little dated -- it's still, after all, a "rural farmboys go on Epic Quest to Save the World! With a magic sword! And a wizard!" story -- but maybe it's just that I still remember how crazy it was in 1989 to read a story where the Epic Prophesied Hero was someone everyone feared, or hell, just a story where the Wizard Mentor was a woman, and not only a vagina-haver but one with a developed, complex personality and goals which had nothing to do with dating a male protagonist. I don't know how a modern modern viewer would react to it -- it's had so much influence on the genre that it might have lost some of its initial impact -- but at the time I remember thinking it was just fundamentally new and different. A "novel" in the sense of a new thing. Good literature is good literature. It doesn't go "out of date."
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Oct 12, 2012 19:08
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evilweasel posted:I think it's a word that made sense in an initial draft but really stopped making sense once he fleshed out the world as a whole. Part of the whole idea of the world was that religion was so obviously true that there wasn't any actual organized religion. I think when you think of the process of writing the book, it makes perfect sense why it would have snuck in but why it doesn't belong. There's a lot of stuff like that in EOTW. The voice at the end of the book for example. It's clearly intended to be the Creator, but that doesn't really make a lot of sense in the context of the later books. Which is why a lot of people now interpret it as the Dark One. I think in RJ's earlier conceptions of the series the religious element was going to be a bit stronger.
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Oct 12, 2012 23:00
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Calenth posted:WoT's claim to the title of "literature" is an interesting point of discussion in and of itself. On the one hand, it's genre fiction about wizards. It rambles on and on for volumes. There's a forty-five-page sequence where a character does nothing but take a bath. Parts of it are (arguably) derivative of Tolkien and Herbert and other prior authors. It's escapist fiction (if you consider that a bad thing; Tolkien's rebuttal to the "escapism" argument was that if you're in a cage, there's nothing wrong about wanting out). It's a young-boy-on-quest story in a genre that was already pretty drat full of young-boy-on-quest stories even in the 80's. I was wondering whether to respond to this, but I've decided that some clarification is needed. When I used the word "literature" I was not using it in the literary sense of a work of permanent significance. I was using it in terms of an individual piece of writing within the body of a language. Under that definition, Wheel of Time's inclusion is pretty much a given. If I had meant literature in the first sense, I probably wouldn't wouldn't have used the adjective good to describe it, as it would be redundant.
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Oct 13, 2012 11:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I've always kinda viewed that as part Jordan vamping up the crazy on the theory that there were only a couple more books to go, part Pattern tugging Rand to kill the Grey Man, and part Rand's personal My Lai moment. It's one of if not the darkest points in the whole series. The Dragon Reborn is the one book in the series I don't have at hand so I can't check, but isn't there basically no proof that those people were actually Darkfriends? As I recall they just ask to use his fire and he just straight up murders them.
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Oct 18, 2012 01:20
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api call girl posted:No proof, other than their travelling companion the Gray Man. I guess I didn't notice that.
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Oct 18, 2012 02:32
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The Lord Bude posted:As a trekkie, I have always drawn parallels in my head between Elaida and deep space 9s Kai Winn, and so I always picture Elaida as her, and her voice as Winn's. In terms of personality they are very similar, but say what you will of Elaida (whom I hate more than any other Wheel of Time character) she's no Darkfriend. There are limits to Elaida's delusions. She would never join with the Dark One in order to purify the world. Another difference is that Winn has doubts, and voices them constantly. But you are right in that the characters do behave in similar ways. They both see everything in terms of how it affects their power and position. So a thing is only true as long as it supports their authority. sweet geek swag fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Oct 23, 2012 |
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Oct 23, 2012 05:27
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Theangryhobo posted:Does anyone like Elayne? Except Rand, for some odd reason. I think he just likes her cause she's royalty though. Can't be her amazing personality. Otherwise he'd spend more time with the chick he knocked up. I like Elayne, I just hate what Robert Jordan chose to do with her once she got back to Caemlyn. The way she sees Min's viewing as a shield is pretty stupid for a person who is supposed to be pretty smart. The scenes with her and Mat in the last book were pretty good though.
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Oct 26, 2012 06:25
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subx posted:And yes, the Elayne-Rand relationship has the least explanation to it. Basically felt more like teenage infatuation than real "love" of any sort - they were sneaking kisses in the Stone, and then met again to get her pregnant. Aviendha had a long (albeit forced at first) relationship, and the whole "drat IT I REALLY WANT TO HATE YOU STOP BEING NICE" thing was pretty well done. Min is the only thing that keeps him sane through the last 6 books. The Elayne-Rand relationship has a bit more to it than that. Specifically, the fact that Elayne reminds Rand/Lews Therin of Ilyena, and might actually be Ilyena reborn.
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Oct 26, 2012 20:10
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Huh? This is the first I've heard of this. I mean, they're both blonde, sure, but that's about all we know of as far as similarities. It just seems like a really reaching theory, and what's the payoff? Lews Therin, gets his precious back, thus negating pretty much her entire point of existence as far as the story goes, and Min and Aviendha thrown in as a couple perks? The "three chicks" thing is bad enough as it is, I don't see how killing the love of your life who you were formerly in a presumably monogamous relationship with (we don't hear Lews Therin moaning about Ilyena, Sashequa, and Bilbette), and then having her resurrected just to join your harem makes any sort of ... I don't know. It seems weird and strangely creepy, and a total red herring to throw in there. Did you read the last chapter of the Gathering Storm? Rand has all of Lew Therin's memories, they are just locked in his subconscious. There were several moments throughout the series where Rand would be thinking about Elayne and Lews Therin would start moaning about how he killed Ilyena. Tie this to the fact that they are both blondes, and both have very similar names, it's not hard to guess that Rand's attraction to Elayne is largely because she reminds him of Ilyena. And Elayne's attraction to Rand? Explained by our good old friend ta'veren. As to whether or not she actually is Ilyena, this is a lot more dubious. Again at the end of TGS Rand is about to destroy the world, and one of his thought is about how he killed Ilyena. He talks himself down by convincing himself that he has been given the chance to try again and that it is possible that Ilyena could live again herself. This is no where near conclusive, but it at least opens the door to the possibility. It also open the door to Rand believing it to be true, without it actually being true.
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Oct 27, 2012 01:35
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api call girl posted:Or her either, considering she's one of the 3 women on the metaphorical boat, and around Rand's funeral bier. At this point we really don't know whether said boat refers to an event before or after Elayne has her babies. We're just assuming (not without reason) that it is one of the last events. That being said, I don't think Elayne is going to die. I don't think that is what RJ was going for with this. I don't think he really put any thought into the idea that Elayne's babies could be born fine with Elayne being dead or dying, because Elayne wasn't going to die during the course of the story. He did this with the death of Asmodean as well. Because he knew Graendal killed Asmodean, the logic of it was obvious to him. But he knew what to look for. Everyone else had to sort through everything in the fifth book to try to figure it out. And there was a lot of leading stuff in there. RJ wasn't above not realizing that without his insider knowledge, certain things make little sense.
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Nov 4, 2012 18:50
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Bizob posted:I went over to the "Dragonmount" forum for the first time in probably a decade and a really odd thread by one of the admins moaning about the Beta reading (I think) of Towers of Midnight and Sanderson in general. Does anyone have any idea what in the world that is about? I'm not entirely sure what was happening there, but if I were to hazard a guess, he read the beta and realized that Sanderson has a different writing style than RJ. To be fair I expected a Grade A flip out ages ago; Sanderson does have a very different writing style after all. Some of the discussion later in the thread indicated it was linked to some RJ versus Sanderson bullshit. Apparently this admin has done some other poo poo as well regarding this, but I wasn't gonna spend too much time hunting that down.
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Dec 11, 2012 00:40
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Walmart broke the street date in my location as well. I would have waited and gone to an actual bookstore, but I have class tomorrow, and there are no bookstores within twenty miles of my school.
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Jan 7, 2013 23:17
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ShadowCatboy posted:So wait, who was the wolf that was supposed to have died in the Dark Prophecies? Probably Hopper. He's really the only character who died that makes sense.
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Jan 17, 2013 09:03
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The Baroness posted:Did anyone else notice that the speech Rand gives to Tuon about his past power pretty exactly matches Ishmael's comment to Lews Therin in the the EotW prologue? I though that was a pretty great callback. Yes I did notice that. I was pretty psyched when I read it.
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Jan 20, 2013 21:45
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evilweasel posted:It occured to me the other day that the section about Taim's title - 'Leader', with the implication standing alone he led everyone and everything - was probably taken from Hitler's title that was essentially the same ('Furher', The Leader). Plus there were those ranks he was adding, Storm Leader or something like that. He was definitely giving off a Nazi vibe.
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Feb 17, 2013 18:51
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Adar posted:I know that nobody's going to write any outright followups to WoT, but does he have the rights to/does he see himself doing the occasional short story or something in the universe? I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Harriet has all the rights, so if he does do any writing for WOT in any form, it'll be at her specific request.
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Feb 19, 2013 21:55
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Modguy posted:After a latest re-read, I was astonished by how Elaida had all the makings of a decent Amyrlin. She even went so far as to put the paintings of the last Red Amyrlin in her study to remind her of the price of failure. It seems she went off the rails after her exposure to Padan Fain. You have a weird sense of spoilers, spoiling stuff from previous books, but not spoiling stuff from this one. Any way I think the seeds of Elaida's fall have bee there all along. The way she interpreted the prophecy about the royal house of Andor playing a role in the last battle shows she tends view things in relation to her preconceived notions. She would never have accepted that Rand had come to terms with his role as Dragon Reborn. Fain did push her over the edge, but she was already unstable. Her hatred of Siuan and Moiraine came to be because she incorrectly thought they ratted her out for her "preperations" for their final tests to become Aes Sedai.
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Feb 20, 2013 05:03
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veekie posted:Yeah if you were using the Power to explode trees into firewood, and then somebody happened to be hiding in it, that's an accident and not a weapon. Likewise if you used the Power on Shadowspawn and hurt someone else by accident, or if you believed beyond reasonable doubt somebody was a Darkfriend. Another example, when Elayne unraveled her gateway in POD it created an explosion. Accident, not weapon.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:30
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We also know from the prologue to EOTW that taint created insanity can be cured using the True Power.
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Mar 4, 2013 20:37
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regulargonzalez posted:Also, reread the chapter where Taim kills a grey man that is attacking Rand and tell me why Taim is there. When Rand presses him, he says found a new recruit (but not one who learns superfast, which Rand is worried about). But Taim is finding several recruits per day, so that's clearly not why he was there. And why does Taim say he would "give much to be sure" when Rand says that Sammael sent the grey man? Like, what difference would that make to Taim as Taim? What would he do differently if it were Sammael or Moghedian or w/e? OTOH, it makes a huge difference to Demandred, who along with the rest of the Forsaken have been told not to attack Rand directly -- that way he knows which Forsaken is not obeying TDO which gives him hugely important info and strength in any discussions with that Forsaken. If Demandred is his patron, he might be concerned about actions Demandred is taking without his knowledge. Also if another Forsaken knows Taim is working for Demandred, they might plant evidence Taim is double crossing Rand just to gently caress with Demandred. Taim has plenty of motivation for wanting to know which Forsaken are plotting against Demandred, as he could easily become an expendable piece of that particular game.
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Mar 6, 2013 04:50
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regulargonzalez posted:But that's not canon either; Taim didn't get recruited until later iirc. And it still doesn't answer why Taim was there when the grey man was (of course, I don't know of any viable answer for this, unless he was looking for the angreal I think he suspected Rand had). I'm pretty sure Taim is a Darkfriend by this point at least. In fact the only way the whole "Lord of chaos" thing makes any sense without Taim being Demandred is if he's working for Demandred. So I'm gonna say Taim is probably working for Demandred when he meets Rand. As to why exactly he is there at that particular time? 
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Mar 6, 2013 05:22
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Blind Melon posted:I argued it was Lanfear because it being her makes for a nice dum dum dum moment and interdimensional travel is not exactly uncharted territory for her. Graendal was such a boring suspect that if it had been her it might as well have been generic Forsaken doing the deed. Which in retrospect explains Jordan's apathy about the whole mystery. The truth was that Asmodean had served his purpose and needed to be written out and the actual murderer did not matter in the slightest. Here's the thing though, while Lanfear made sense while we weren't sure what had happened to her, that no longer applies. When Asmodean was killed she was most definitely a prisoner of the Finns. Robert Jordan knew it could not be Lanfear, so he said it was obvious, and given that Graendal is the only real alternative that makes sense at that point (if you know it can't be Lanfear) then it is obvious that it is Graendal. But fans didn't know that for the reasons you mentioned. Lanfear was powerful enough that she could conceivably have escaped Finnworld. So it wasn't obvious to the fans. Really, we made way too big a deal of this. It wasn't actually that important in the grand scheme of things, but Jordan refused to explain it because he didn't understand why people couldn't figure it out.
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Mar 17, 2013 23:51
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api call girl posted:No, Asmodean wouldn't even remotely be in her top 3 priorities. To be fair she'd probably be split between kill Rand and make Rand worship her. She was pretty pissed at that point though, so who knows what she'd have said. But you are right that Asmodean is not on her list of "things I should to waste a Finn wish on".
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Mar 19, 2013 05:48
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Blind Melon posted:Reminder: Asmodean and Rand were the only two people who knew about Lanfear's plan to betray the Dark One. You are right, betraying the Dark One is pretty bad. Which is exactly what everyone thinks Asmodean did. He got severed from the DO and taught the Dragon Reborn how to channel. Every single Forsaken (except Lanfear) thinks he's a traitor, as does the DO. If he accuses Lanfear of betraying the Dark One, she'll just reply that it is all part of a plot she cooked up to corrupt the Dragon, and it isn't her fault that Asmodean was too stupid to see through it. And to be fair, there is the possibility that this is exactly what she was doing.
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Mar 21, 2013 10:50
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I'm pretty sure the DO wanted Rand to have the Choedan'kal. If you recall the last scene Rand uses it is in TGS, when he is on the verge of destroying the world. Well, I'm not sure Rand could have destroyed the world with it, but he certainly could have Broken it again. I'm pretty sure that was the moment in time at which the DO was closest to winning. Whatever good Rand was able to do with the Choedan'kal, it had the potential to give the whole game to the DO. For example, if Rand had tried to use the Choedan'kal on the DO, he would have tainted saidin again. If he used it to destroy Ebou Dar, the Seanchan don't fight in the Last Battle. If he uses it to kill Cadsuane... wait, that would have probably been all right. The point is with the Choedan'kal in Rand's hands there are a lot more options for the DO to win. The only thing that Rand really did with it was cleanse saidin. Thought experiment: What would happen if Rand and Lanfear tried to use both Choedan'kal to destroy the DO? Remember, the Choedan'kal can't seal away the Dark One because it doesn't amplify the True Power. What would happen is that the DO would get a clear shot at tainting both Saidin and Saidar. Lanfear's plan can't work, and would probably lead to every unprotected channeler in the world going mad. Somehow, I don't think the DO would try to put a stop to this. As far as Ishamael/Moridin goes, I'm pretty sure the DO was playing him for a sap. He thought he understood the DO best, but he was in reality just the most insane of the DO's minions, who would take the most extreme actions in his service. He was the only person who didn't give a poo poo if the world ended, in fact he wants it to end! Why not do whatever insanity the DO orders? It just brings the sweet end closer.
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Mar 22, 2013 04:30
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