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Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Paramemetic posted:

Presuming you have not actually done this, so hopefully not breaking decorum, but may I ask why?

In an early ritual of the OTO a question is posed to the aspirant. This question is "In times of difficulty and danger in whom do you place your trust?" There is only one acceptable answer to this question in the OTO: Myself.

If that is the candidate's answer to that question I do not find them fit for Masonry.

Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Feb 7, 2014

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Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I mean, the reason that is the answer is that "There is no god but man."

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




WAFFLEHOUND posted:

That or a Dia del Muerte theme party
Suddenly have a really strong impulse to learn more about Freemasonry in Latin America.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




QPZIL posted:

That's basically the same view I have.

Me, too, but really I think I just didn't want to bring in some weird occult grimoire or something and be a special snowflake.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010





Yes! It just became available on Steam today for those of us who pre-ordered. I must say it takes me back to when I was going through the degrees.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I, too, prefer red lightsabers

Sithsaber posted:

I'm pretty sure you guys are still anti commie.
Marxism-Leninism is the light of the world, and Masonry is all about light.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Sithsaber posted:

Are there creeds the masons outright ban? Shouldn't Thelema and Pentecostal practitioners be shot on sight?
Varies by location how strict or vague the religious requirement is. As an example, some jurisdictions requires just simply a belief in a deity that rewards good and punishes evil, yet Masonry is also arguably known for accepting deists.

In practice you can certainly can find Thelemic or Pentacostal Masons. In terms of Thelema it is worth noting that Crowley himself had went through the degrees in Mexico and considered himself a Mason (he didn't discover the lodge was irregular until presenting himself at a regular lodge). Lon Milo DuQuette is a very well known regular Mason and one of the most authoritative Thelemites currently living.

On the other hand (as I've earlier stated in this thread) I personally don't find membership particularly in the OTO compatible with Masonry, and I would personally would most likely black cube someone I knew to be a member.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Tias posted:

I'm aware I suppose, I'm just rather ill and have a hard time keeping job, leisure and friends/family on the level. I'd rather not commit to it, and then opt out because I couldn't handle it.

Freemasonry frankly should never interfere with your duty to your God, country, employer, family, or self. If anything it is a source of strength from which to better handle the other duties a man has in this life.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Glorified Scrivener posted:

I always figured that if work takes me to the south east I'd affiliate with a Prince Hall lodge instead of an A/F&M, if they'd have me.
My understanding is that that states that recognize Prince Hall only recognize Prince Hall in states wherein the regular Grand Lodge recognizes Prince Hall. My understanding (and I asked rather pointed questions on this exact point) I'm beholden both to the Grand Lodge under which I'm a member and the Grand Lodge of the state I'm physically in. This also means that if you are a member of a lodge that doesn't recognize Prince Hall, you can't visit a Prince Hall lodge even if you travel to a state wherein Prince Hall is recognized. I made it very clear this was why I would not join the lodge in my home town in Tennessee. However my understanding is that there would not be any problem in a Tennessee mason visiting a regular North Carolina lodge where Prince Hall members were present.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Sithsaber posted:

I don't get why a debate about freemasonry shouldn't go in the freemasonry thread.

Hmmm, quite.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Sithsaber posted:

I have no further reason to "disrupt"...conversations about picnics and magazines.

Hmmm, quite.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I'm actually getting ready to show up to lodge for the first time in over a year myself thanks to a change in my job schedule. I know I won't have that positive of an experience, but I'll just take a positive one. Thanks for the reminder that sometimes it really can be.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Do you know how that is phrased? Usually in the states when Prince Hall gets recognized the language is something to the effect that Prince Hall is recognized in all states wherein that state's Grand Lodge recognizes Prince Hall. That way that as soon as one of the hold out states mends the divide, nothing has to happen for that state's Prince Hall to be also be recognized.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




1) This varies a lot by location. It is often the case that a lodge will not have proper right to initiate you until you have lived int he jurisdiction for X period of time. I had to wait until I had lived where I was initiated for six months before applying. In the UK I believe it's a slow process compared to the states, but that said, I'm personally in favor of getting in as soon as you can, and then you will have the opportunity to meet new brethren as a traveling man. Just go ahead and start visiting lodges and see if you find a good fit, and remember: to be one, ask one.

2) You don't join the Grand Lodge directly, but rather a subordinate lodge. I'd imagine there are a number of lodges that share the facilities.


3) Not at all.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




legsarerequired posted:

giant satanic conspiracy

Obviously it's a grand luciferian conspiracy, geez, guys, will they ever get it right?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




lord1234 posted:

I've never visited another lodge outside of a GL visitation where I already knew multiple people, so have never been "tested" before. Is it strange to be nervous?
So long as your dues card is current you generally have nothing to worry about.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Wouldn't want to stain my pure and spotless snow white emblem of innocence with use!

At least mine is actually made of lambskin, apparently not all are.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Langolas posted:

Tell me Masons, whats a good Mason related gift I can get my bud that you would of liked to get yourself?

One of my buddies asking for an application?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




There are so many different flavors of Protestant that it is impossible to say. There are certainly some that think we're the spawn of Satan and so on.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Keetron posted:

The upside of a Christian school is that they educate broadly on all religions

... Really? Is that a regional thing, because usually they only tech their own religious outlook.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Deism actually was considered incompatible with Masonry, at least by some, during that time period. Franklin had deist leanings, and according to something that I read that I wish I could find now to cite, stopped going to lodge after a deist was kicked out in Pennsylvania.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Hope you all aren't taking it lying down.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Solvent posted:

I do not believe that openly gay men should be allowed into blue lodge masonry.
Any thoughts?
Go gently caress yourself? Please demit?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Solvent posted:

I was going to wait for some realistic responses, but instead all I saw was a suggestion to demit, and go gently caress myself.
You asked for our thoughts, I gave you mine!

Solvent posted:

For example, there are people who believe that it is still a choice, or mortal sin, or both and no amount of progressive thinking would make it otherwise.
Then I suggest those Masons not suck cock. But to judge a man based on your own moral or religious conviction instead of the candidate's own is to violate Masonic principles of egalitarianism. Every man must be judged by his own plumb line. And by my judgement your stated bigotry is what is incompatible with Masonry. That you would share it publicly, unwilling and unable to support it with the least shred of justification, brings shame upon the order.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Seriously, the best version of the lovely without merit argument of no gays allowed is that it is immoral to be a sodomite so they are people of ill repute who are not therefore of good report.

And this viewpoint is being brought to the thread by Solvent who [...]

But yeah, it's the gays who are the ones who we need to keep out because they'll ruin our reputation.

Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 21, 2015

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Are there still jurisdictions that bar Communists from joining?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




That should be enough to get you to the next Grand Lodge which will reverse the previous Grand Lodge, right? At least that is how I'm used to Grand Lodge politics happening.

I mean it sounds like it has to be some personal petty bullshit that won't survive someone's term ending.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




AllPraiseToAllah posted:

I've been trying to talk my wife into letting me petition but she's convinced you guys worship the devil/would try to murder me If I ever wanted out.

Still working on her.
You do realize we can't teach you how to make meth, right?

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Keetron posted:

Quiet indeed but I have a question that could get some more information rolling.

I have been invited to join the Scottish rites by one brother and I got invited to join the Rosecrusarians. Now without giving anything away in a public forum or for someone not familiar with either, what would the MM's here say is the difference and which would be preferable?

I'd jump at the chance to join SRIA. Disclaimer that I'm not actually part of any appendant bodies.

Here are the classic Rosicrucian documents from the early 1600s that inspired all later groups. http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Rosicrucian.pdf

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Keetron posted:

I checked out wikipedia and it is claimed one should be a Christian which I am definitely not. I'll discuss this at the next time I meet this brother how it is looked upon over here.

I guess that makes sense as Rosicrucianism is very heavily Christian flavored mysticism, unsurprising being that its inspiration is from Europe circa 1600s, but still unfortunate.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Delivery McGee posted:

Though I suppose you'd want to know about the applicant's past, but do you ask to see old school yearbooks?
In the jurisdiction in which I was raised, a literal background check is done on each candidate. Paid out of the application fee. It would come out. If a trans man didn't volunteer it, that you would withhold something so significant would be held against him, likely. And if he did, that would likely be enough for some rear end in a top hat to blackball him.

Basically it would take a young and progressive lodge in which the interview committee itself is cool with it, doesn't tell the main lodge before the vote, and possibly even colludes to help make sure bits of the preparation of the candidate for the ritual goes off smoothly.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




The letter dude wrote is awesome: http://www.freemasonsfordummies.com/TennesseeGayMarriageCharges.pdf

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




Gorgeous work.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




COOL CORN posted:

If anyone is ever in central North Carolina, you're welcome to come visit it :)

Hmm, yeah, maybe I should show up again

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




patentmagus posted:

I think it is outright un-masonic to disassociate from brothers with whom we previously harmonized
Which is just what GA and TN are doing in kicking out gay brethren. You can't blame CA for rightfully perceiving, acknowledging, and acting upon that knowledge of such severely unmasonic behavior.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




patentmagus posted:

One side expels [good upstanding masons], the other side expels [grand lodges violating our ancient precepts].

Hey, seems pretty obvious that it's a false equivocation to call these both wrong or equal harms or whatever. That actions have consequences is a law of man and nature, the understanding of which is a cornerstone of living a moral life.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




I had a coded book after every degree in Alaska, coded. Still took personal assistance because you need help learning it even well enough to read the thing.

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




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Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 24, 2019

Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




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Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 24, 2019

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Sub Rosa
Jun 9, 2010




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Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 24, 2019

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