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Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Cryte Lynn posted:

She said the play was really cool; it was interactive so like, the orcs would come out into the crowd and razzle the patrons during the helms deep sequence, and the Ents were ppl on stilts striding around the crowd during the entmoot. Wish I could have seen it.

Goddamn, that sounds awesome.

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Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Honestly, while Two Towers has a lot of comic moments for Gimli he gets consistent love as well. Return of the King is where the balance shifts too far to comedy, but that's the case for a lot of things in the trilogy.

I think that's partly because they had the least prep time to reign in those tendencies, which seemed to happen a lot in the first two movies - they'd come up with a scenario, then have enough time to come back to it and hone it and it would inevitably end up looking more like the books. By the time they got to the third movie, there wasn't that extra time. It wasn't as bad as the hobbit where they were basically writing as they filmed from what I heard, but it wasn't Fellowship where they had so long to get ready.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Mail would always be used with plate armour, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to protect some of your joints, eg the armpits and neck would usually have something like that so that you could lift your arm without immediately getting got. So plate and mail are not exclusive, but mail on its own was standard for a while.

Well, mail over a gambeson or other padding.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Sometimes you get visions or warnings in Middle Earth - Frodo had a vision of Gandalf in Isengard, for instance, albeit after the fact of his escape. Elrond has the gift of prophecy as well.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Lemniscate Blue posted:

For tonight's performance the part of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Ranger of the North and Heir of Isildur will be played by Bruce Campbell.

Hail to the [Return of the] King, baby.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



This polygon article was one I went into with some scepticism and came out pretty convinced by its arguments, so imo, he knew what he was doing, even if he was also probably uncomfortable with it.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Tree Bucket posted:

No, that's her sister, Blackberry

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Vavrek posted:

That the Ring had no idea how to handle Sam, at least. That, in combination with the above scene(s) of Frodo laying down the law for Gollum, really hammered home the notion "Sam is the Hero of the story." The spirit of Sauron is desperately trying to find some way to move Sam, some way to phrase "Don't you want to command others, to bring order to this world," and all it can come up with is "... like a well-tended garden?" And a lesser gardener might have gone with it!

I think this undersells how effective that temptation actually was for Sam - if not for his love of Frodo, he would have absolutely gone along with it, either then, or soon after stepping into Mordor. Sam is the hero of LotR, in the sense that he goes on the hero's journey and returns to a hero's reward - violently expelling invaders and getting to be happily married and rule over his people.

Frodo, on the other hand, is much harder for the Ring to work with. He doesn't want to rule, he doesn't seek to reorder the world to his design. In the end, the only thing the Ring can tempt him with is - itself! And we are to make no mistake, it's not that someone else holding it over the fires of Mount Doom would have been better able to resist it, rather, it's likely that no-one else could have taken it that far, as it would have successfully tempted them well before then. Though, of course, Frodo's body wouldn't have made it that far without his faithful Sam there to (literally) support him.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Also isn't Treebeard based on CS Lewis?

Oh it seems that's based on another person's recollections. The mystery deepens...

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



skasion posted:

Tolkien thinks “woman with magic powers” is a cool and sexy archetype, not evil.

he's right

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Tree Bucket posted:

It's Morgoth.
"What is that man doing to his Ainur"

Actually it's Morgoth's Ring.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



In Glaurung's defence, it was very funny.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



You can also look at Eru's intervention as being literally just setting up how oaths work in that world. Smeagol freely swears by the Ring to obey the holder; Frodo while holding the ring commands him: "If you touch me ever again you shall be cast yourself into the fire of doom".

And then that's exactly what happens.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Who makes a rock roll downhill? No-one, that's just how the universe is set up.

There are, on the other hand, moments of divine intervention we can directly point to like the drowning of Numenor, that were unambiguously an intervention by Eru that otherwise were not possible within the laws of the universe.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



euphronius posted:

He doesn’t day it rolled. He says it was rolled.

Yeah, by gravity.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!




The song of the Ainur, given form by Eru as Ëa, which still allows for acts of free will by its inhabitants.

euphronius posted:

Your interpretation takes the “was” out. I think you should account for the text saying “was rolled” not just “rolled”

Even so why didn’t Saruman just say “the current of the river rolled the ring into the sea “

In Saruman's case: he's lying, but since Caradhras has a will of its own, I would hazard he means Anduin itself.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



euphronius posted:

So your interpretation is the river had free will to roll the ring ? Or the ring rolled itself by free will? Why didn’t Saruman say that

Why would he have to say it, what else would have?

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



euphronius posted:

Eru. Manwe. Most likely Ulmo in this scenario

Why would they need to get involved at that point instead of letting the river do its thing?

Or, if Eru is going to get involved directly, why let it be made? Why not destroy it once it has been?

The Eagles intervention is much more credible to assign to Manwë by even that isn't certain.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Ravenfood posted:

So Gollum's fall at Mt. Doom was just...luck?

No, it was the result of a command given by Frodo while holding the ring to which Smeagol was sworn.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



euphronius posted:

Then he would have just said rolled, not was rolled.

Unless you mean the entity of the being who rolled the ring into the sea isn’t important . I don’t think that is true

Do you think Eru literally pushed Smeagol over the cliff?

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



euphronius posted:

Like did eru corporealize and literally push? No

It similar to how eru got the ring to Bilbo

Edit

To use the language of lotr, gollum was meant to slip and fall at that moment

In that case why didn't Sauron slip and fall midforging and avoid the problem altogether? Or equally, is Smeagol wasn't there at that moment, would he have just slipped and fallen wherever?

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



WoodrowSkillson posted:

i hate this argument so much

You were right.

Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



Data Graham posted:

It's definitely true that the whole first act of the story up to Rivendell really shows the effects of having gone through so many painful revisions and evolutions from the "Hobbit sequel" it started as. All whimsical sidequests and songs and droll hobbit repartee

From about Bree on is when he'd finally more or less figured out what the Ringwraiths were and where they hell they were going on the quest and it all turned into something very different from the twee fairytale adventure he set out to write. It's such a weird and idiosyncratic style of narrative, full of inexplicable fossils of the earlier drafts, that I'm sometimes stunned that the tone shift between the first stage of the journey and the later stuff seems to hook more people than it repels.

It works in part because the journey the Hobbits go through is the same as the narrative. And since they're our pov, it feels extremely natural as you read along. It's only when you step back you can see how big a change it is.

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Cavelcade
Dec 9, 2015

I'm actually a boy!



So I've been looking for images to use for a tattoo of Varda but I came across a truly cursed Gollum Tumblr sexyman art.



Anyway, what's everyone's favourite Varda artwork?

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