Ask us about Buddhism: This thread is Avici

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Kellsterik posted:

I'm not sure this is exactly the right thread to ask, but as far as I know there isn't a Christianity or religious history A/T thread so i'll approach it from this direction.

Why are Buddhism and Christianity so often compared or described as similar? I'm especially thinking here of ideas like Jesus being inspired by Buddhism rather than the two traditions developing independently of each other, which seem to me to be much more popular (relatively) in the West than Asia.

To be honest, i've been inclined to see this as a kind of revisionist history thing with a strong dose of orientalism, but i'd like to hear other people's opinions, either on the similarities and differences between the two religions or especially on the origins/popularity of the notion itself.

The Jesus story is not impossible, though the idea that Jesus wandered off for a stint in a Buddhist monastery probably is. However, Buddhism was 500 years old when Christ was alive, and I gather the Romans were at least vaguely aware of its existence.

I imagine the major connection between the two faiths nowadays is that both have strong monastic traditions.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2014 05:16

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:57

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Mr. Mambold posted:

Well it's great, but it looks like unfortunately, that idiot Steven Batchelor has appropriated it.
"Batchelor...suggests that Buddhism jettison reincarnation and karma, thereby making possible what he calls an 'existential, therapeutic and liberating agnosticism." �Time magazine
Haha, ironic?

So this guy is like a Buddhist heretic, right? Is there some kind of Shaolin inquisition for that sort of thing? (To express the question in a serious form: How does the Buddhist community deal with things like that?)

# ¿ Feb 16, 2014 17:51

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Paramemetic posted:

Losar Tashi Delek everyone practicing Tibetan Buddhism! Today is the first day of the Tibetan year 2141, of the Male Wood Horse. At our center, we practiced Milarepa Guru Yoga, and made a smoke offering. A lot of the local Tibetan community came out, it was very nice.

Losar also marks the beginning of the Buddha Days, which will continue until 16 March. On these days, karmic consequences are multiplied by one hundred million, so if you're thinking of doing virtuous practices, taking vows, and so on, this is a good time to do that. If you're planning to practice non-virtues, perhaps consider rescheduling. It is a very good idea to take precepts during the Buddha days.

Some other calendars will have already practiced the Buddha days I think.

This is perhaps only tangential, but I've heard 'one hundred million' used in Buddhist contexts a few times in about the same way that 'ten thousand' seems to get used in Taoism, or "forty days and forty nights" in the Torah; 'perhaps not literally precisely this figure, but a whole shitload, man, you'd better believe it.'

Is there some linguistic quirk that leads to that specific figure being common? It's just so... specific.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2014 20:52

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Paramemetic posted:

It's awkwardly phrased. They may have internal issues stemming from the desire itself, but they are not compounded and are overcome with discipline. Strictly speaking I'm certain monks, especially novice monks, feel suffering resultant from sexual desire, but it is made better, not worse, by keeping their vows.

To be a bit bald, are monks permitted to beat off in order to take the edge off such matters?

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 07:19

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A couple of other questions out of curiosity.

1. Is the goat man sexual misconduct?

2. I recall dimly from a class on Chinese history that there was a doctrine in Chinese Buddhism, at least, that essentially said you are allowed to be tricky, if not quite lie, in order to get some truths across. Am I accurately remembering this doctrine? The sort of titular example was lying to a child in order to get it to leave a burning house; the deceit was permissible in order to save the child's life. If so, do you think that this approach is moral?

# ¿ May 12, 2014 07:17

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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:

You are all looking to extract pleasure out of Buddhism but all it has for you is ways to acknowledge your existing pain.

We're all in pain. That's the common ground. Pleasure gets you nowhere except away from that pain. Sex feels like the most intense and pleasureable thing in the world because it's based on the ache and pain of separation. Now do you follow me.

Are you posting from the realm of hungry ghosts?

# ¿ May 12, 2014 17:50

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Sithsaber posted:

Apparently these guys figured out buddha loss is dependent on linguistics, and are cheating the system by translating a poo poo ton of tibetan manuscripts. Now they should either realize that ecen the dalai lama wants to bury poo poo (djurgen shugden etc) or they should expand and wander forgotten caves in Burma and Pakistan so they can complete their impossible and slightly naive vision.

http://84000.co/news

Ps. Their youtube pic is pretty and sounds like cracked's secrets of the science.

Why does the Dalai Lama want to bury that particular thing you mentioned?

# ¿ Jun 2, 2014 17:57

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Mr. Mambold posted:

This is such bullshit, how can you even think you're being helpful? The fact is those perpetrators are not trying to be happy, they are inflicting pain because they live in pain and anger and fear you absolute rear end.

I think he's saying "if you feel destructively furious at these people, remember that they are also suffering in this world the same as you, and are therefore ultimately no better off than the people they oppress." This doesn't justify them in the slightest nor should it discourage resistance, working for positive changes, and so on. But it's true, and it may be a method to ease your own personal specific state.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 23:42

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pidan posted:

This is essentially the same idea you find in the Chinese classic Great Learning:
The ancients who wished to illustrate illustrious virtue throughout the kingdom, first ordered well their own states. Wishing to order well their states, they first regulated their families. Wishing to regulate their families, they first cultivated their persons. Wishing to cultivate their persons, they first rectified their hearts. Wishing to rectify their hearts, they first sought to be sincere in their thoughts. Wishing to be sincere in their thoughts, they first extended to the utmost their knowledge. Such extension of knowledge lay in the investigation of things. Things being investigated, knowledge became complete. Their knowledge being complete, their thoughts were sincere. Their thoughts being sincere, their hearts were then rectified. Their hearts being rectified, their persons were cultivated. Their persons being cultivated, their families were regulated. Their families being regulated, their states were rightly governed. Their states being rightly governed, the whole kingdom was made tranquil and happy.
(old-fashioned James Legge translation found here: http://ctext.org/liji/da-xue)

I sometimes think the idea to change the world but you can change yourself is a modern affectation, but it's been with us for a long time.

To bring it back to Buddhism, I've never really grasped whether I should develop compassion because it's good for my mind, or because it's good for other beings. But in strictly Buddhist terms, I suppose there is no difference.

Wouldn't the answer be "you should develop compassion, because it's good" - because that is true for both of the alternatives you have presented yourself?

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 22:47

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Paramemetic posted:

Longchenpa, eh? Is this a Nyingma school or Drikung Kagyu Yang Zab?

I want y'all to know I saw Longchenpa and read it "Likchenpa" for a full minute.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 21:50

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Paramemetic posted:

Yeah, any questions on Tibetan pronunciations I can field. I am a lazy student, but I've learned that much at least.

Granted there are like a thousand different dialectic pronunciations so.

How do you pronounce Kagyu? I keep seeing it and reading it as a Japanese word.

Actually that's a sort of interesting question, how are Japanese Buddhist sects taken in the greater Buddhist community?

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 23:48

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Prickly Pete posted:

I think they are related, and I think the tendency to classify them individually might be a recent development. There is one sutta that discusses them as distinct methods but I'm phone posting so I don't have it handy.

If you like the style of Mindfulness in Plain English, he has another book about samatha meditation. I think it is called beyond mindfulness in plain english. It is a good and simple introduction to developing concentration, which is nice as this style of meditation has a lot of nuances in terms of meditation objects, stages of absorption and different qualities of those stages and so on.

I didn't know about these books, though I did know Crowley wrote "do pranayama" and underlined it sixteen times. I'll have to look them up, especially if they're not secretly massively awful Buddhist ripoffs!

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 19:21

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The concept of the development of a Western form of Buddhism is really interesting to me, and it's come up in the stuff I've read a lot - which I was sort of hesitant about, since it feels sort of like it's also appropriative, in a way. I guess that's the issue to deal with, though, in part.

How do you guys reconcile this with the prediction of the loss of the Dharma that I was reading a bit about in a book full of interviews with Samdhong Rinpoche? Also, are there a lot of interactions between the Christian monastic tradition and Buddhists - this actually DOES seem like a point of commonality between cultures.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 22:20

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Max posted:

I'm not able to cite anything at the moment and am speaking from years of hearsay and stories, but I know Chogyam Trungpa came to the US specifically to westernize Buddhism, which is why he essentially founded Shambhala and opened up centers all across the country. It certainly looks appropriative from the outside, but it was entirely the intention of the teacher (at least, it was for him.)

Well yeah, and obviously if you convert to a religion (which Buddhism is in practice if perhaps not theory) you are not "appropriating" if you "follow your religion faithfully." (At least, I presume so, I may be INSUFFICIENTLY INTERSECTIONAL.)

However, Trungpa was deliberately doing that with his own cultural traditions, while the main trend in Westerners doing it on their own seems to be that stuff Wafflehound disliked earlier in the thread - basically going "I know better than the Buddha, here's the REAL truth." Which seems fundamentally different than, say, adapting to a situation where there are few monasteries and retreats, and a lot of household practicioners.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 22:48

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Prickly Pete posted:

Ajahn Chah, who is basically the figurehead of the Thai Forest Tradition, also made a pretty strong push to establish monasteries in the west. There is a very solid history of western monks travelling to Thailand to ordain under his lineage and then return to the UK/US to teach. The form of buddhism is westernized to some extent, but the monks still hold to a pretty strict interpretation of the Vinaya and services follow a pretty traditional format, so it doesn't feel westernized outside of the fact that it is mostly white people, as one would expect.

I don't necessarily think the Dhamma is in decline at this point in time. If anything, there seems to be a pretty strong traditionalist element. At least in Theravada anyway.

Yeah, Rinpoche said basically that the teachings of the Buddha we all know and love were going to fade out over five thousand years, and we're at the halfway point there. He did say that it might have meant like, direct transmission of teachings rather than literal loss of the texts, since it seems pretty likely that barring total collapse we'd have records of at least much of Buddhist teachings more or less forever.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 23:07

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Prickly Pete posted:

That is part of the endless arising and passing away of world systems. The Dhamma is taught by a Buddha who then passes the teaching on after his death. The teaching flourishes, and then fades into something corrupted after a long time or is lost entirely, at which point another Buddha will eventually appear to revive the teachings again. I wasn't aware that 5000 years was the timeframe. I wonder if that differs among traditions. I can't remember if it is specified in any Theravada texts off the top of my head.

That's a good question though, whether the loss of the Dhamma means the actual loss of the texts and the specifics of the teachings, or if it means the teachings have become corrupted to a point where they don't represent the original.

This may be a Tibetan thing. He said that our fellow was the fourth (out of a thousand) for this aeon, and that Maitreya would be the fifth.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 23:24

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ToxicSlurpee posted:

If memory serves the Buddha actually predicted a few hundred years but it was later updated to thousands when the teachings were still alive and well like 800 years later. Like was said though there is no end and no beginning to the fundamental truths. They're there. Some people become aware of it, some don't.

Yeah this dude said that there have been many Buddhas, some of them hit it big like Gautama did, some of them just teach a few people and then their teachings die out.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2015 05:45

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Mr. Mambold posted:

Iirc each time Ananda talked him into letting women and householders receive the teachings, he announced that the dharma would be diluted and die out that much sooner.....makes you think.

Y'all know the canon better, but the wiki article makes it sound like Ananda prevailed on Buddha to (publically) recognize that women could equally become enlightened, and the other members of the sangha of the time complained about this after the Buddha died.

Which suggests a. that the Buddha knew that all along (if also b. didn't want to publically state it, oh dear), and c. even Buddhists of old can be jerks, sometimes.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2015 19:18

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Crack posted:

I don't know enough to really contribute anything to this discussion other than "yeah nuns should be allowed" but that Vinaya has some really weird and specific rules. Like, number one in the Pācittiya part is "Should any bhikkhunī eat garlic, it is to be confessed" with no equivalent in the male Vinaya. Why shouldn't nuns be allowed garlic??

I think the view at the time was that garlic could get you all excitable and stuff, while nowadays we generally do not hold this view that onions and garlic have powers other than "deliciousness" and "destroying some people's asses."

# ¿ Jan 25, 2015 21:58

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Crack posted:

Hmmm, two foods that can cause bad breath.

E: and the toothbrush had not been invented yet

Ananda asked the Buddha, "is it not true that he who hath smelt it, dealt it? Or is the truth with those who proclaim that he who denied it, supplied it? Or rather with those who say that those who say the rhyme, did the crime?"

# ¿ Jan 25, 2015 22:02

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Can you elaborate on these demon protector practice thingers?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 22:55

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Tautologicus posted:

If you want to be better at something, do that thing, and all the things that are connected and related to it. Meditation is just making the inner-outer feedback loop less perceptible by telling yourself it's happening within you, as if the external world reference point isn't suddenly a mind object taking its place as the same function. It's a trick of substitution. Nothing has changed. Focus on the external world or the internal world, you're still focusing from somewhere. There's literally absolutely totally no vantage point from which this makes sense. Focusing on your breath or studying a math problem, it's the exact same thing, except one if done well enough will land you the big bucks on wall street and let you eat well while the other will throw you for every loop your substituting mind can conjure up. 8 and 9 are just as different from each other as .8 and .9 are if you need them to be the same.

I think you should push the STEM elitism harder if you're going to advocate for the realm of illusion

# ¿ May 17, 2015 02:17

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Tautologicus posted:

I have a liberal arts degree, there was nothing i had to become good at to earn it. Better examples lay elsewhere. Sorry you were triggered.

On a more serious topic, and possibly retreading ground - I'd like to read some Buddhist scripture in a good English translation; is there a site available for the basics, or for Vajrayana stuff? (Ideally like, text, not a podcast discussion...)

# ¿ May 17, 2015 02:23

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Sure, at this point it's mostly academic interest and wanting to read things 'from the horse's mouth' or as near as I can reasonably get. I will probably give practicing a try in the not too distant future.

# ¿ May 17, 2015 02:56

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I think the idea in Buddhism is that you learn how not to attach yourself to constant longing in the destructive sense. So you could, for instance, passionately want political reform and work for it, to the point of getting shot at by cops. But (in theory) when you have a setback you are not emotionally crippled by it. You're able to put the cause down for a weekend to go hang out with your family. I don't think you'd necessarily lose any effectiveness at pursuing goals here - you might in fact be able to gain it, though in some cases you also might change your goals. (For instance, "getting rich" might seem less important, which would be considered a negative in some spheres, but is not necessarily "bad.")

To give an example, it seems like Buddhist philosophy and practice would (for instance) tend to reduce one's inclination to get into super-hot flame wars about Bernie Sanders or whoever. This means there are slightly fewer flame wars eating up time and energy - mostly your own, but incrementally that of the world at large. That doesn't mean you wouldn't be feeling the Bern and working your rear end off to support Sanders. Indeed, it might improve your ability to do so.

Nessus fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 23, 2015

# ¿ Jul 23, 2015 18:24

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What I had read in my own occult stuff is that :catdrugs:

can produce consciousness changes which can be powerful but are in large part temporary. Doing an acid trip to rinse out your preconceptions is one thing, requiring LSD to feel like you've meditated is a form of intoxication. Some people (Crowley) see zero problem with intoxication but it does seem like it goes against the Buddhist grain.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2015 04:32

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lllllllllllllllllll posted:

I have no idea what I'm talking about, but what about... love? Buddhism seems so passive being about avoiding pain, while Christian beliefs also stress that loving others (which seems more "active") will result in similar behaviour. Care to comment on this?

I am no Buddhist but it seems the Buddhist teachings have plenty of love in 'em - what is compassion but a form of love? Buddhism in general is not ecstatic, I think, in the way that Christianity often is, so it comes off as lacking a dramatic arc. The story of the Buddha is less interesting as a literary tale, perhaps, than Christ or Muhammad. There also seems to be less emphasis on "worship" (and what are you worshiping, anyway?) which I suppose makes Buddhism seem weird and alien.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2015 09:37

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goodness posted:

Is Buddhism an impersonal thing though? Everything I was reading was making me feel so great, real and full consciously that I was only wanting to treat the word around me better and myself as well. Maybe he was just a jerk but googling looks like a big part of Hinduism is rejecting the principles of Buddhism?

Well Buddhism could probably be seen as a "heresy" of "Hinduism" (I put these in quotes since there's probably more religious diversity inside of "Hinduism" than outside of it) and it did eventually mostly die out in India, as I recall. I could understand if recent Hindu thought has often used Buddhism, which survived in the nearby area (Thailand, China, Sri Lanka) as a point of contrast or an "Other" to define themselves against, sort of like how a lot of medieval Jewish culture in Europe involved contrasting themselves against the Christians.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 23:11

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I want to hear about this star-larvae thing

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 07:52

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What do you mean by "detach entirely?"

# ¿ Feb 17, 2016 08:25

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It seems, reading this thread, like the big obstacle for Buddhist practice for a lot of westerners is "admitting that these things we could call supernatural, do in fact exist, more or less as described." Like it isn't quite disbelief or skepticism, it's like what you were saying, Wordicuffs... it's hard to accept even provisionally that these things are in some sense 'real,' except in the extremely specific sense of thought-forms, metaphors, etc.

I wonder if that's been widespread in any other historical points... well, there's a first time for everything.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2016 11:37

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Helpimscared posted:

I would definitely be curious as to what exactly secular Christianity entails, but it wouldn't not make sense to me. I presume it would probably have something to do with following Jesus as more of a teacher or an example of moral person, rather than worship. Its different strokes for different folks, if they find peace in their practice and aren't being violent or culty about it who am I to judge?

I don't know if this is exactly secular but it's the argument of a lot of Unitarians: Jesus was a great and holy man, worthy of renown and study, and perhaps he even did miracles, but he wasn't Literally The Same As God, and the point isn't his power, it's his teaching.

Of course there's also people who identify themselves as 'culturally Christian' in the sense of 'I am very specifically not one of the Rising Muslim Hordes' but I doubt that's a big factor in Buddhism at present.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:56

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NikkolasKing posted:

Well, shouldn't everything the Buddha said matte to anyone who calls themselves a Buddhist? Even my very surface-level knowledge says that, while there are a billion different schools of Buddhism (Eastern religions don't put me off on moral grounds like some Western faiths but damned their lack of a Bible counterpart is frustrating) they still all believe in a few core tenets. Aren't those tenets laid out in these texts? I can't imagine every sutra talks about Nirvana/Nibana for example.

I guess what I'm asking, since these are supposed to be what the Buddha taught in his "ministry", shouldn't they be pivotal to all Buddhists?

To some extent I think you're projecting a specifically modern religious thing in the USA onto a historical religious practice. If you look at a lot of long-running religions, established practice and tradition, as well as lengthy written materials on the core tenets of the religion, are often at least as important to daily practice as recourse to the original materials.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 10:43

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So now it's my own story. I visited my local Buddhist temple - there was a giant Buddha in the woods and a meditation trail behind it for a few acres. I felt... something; "good" is probably the most honest way to put it. I was briefly spoken to by a parishoner who shook my hand and said he was glad to hear I was interested and encouraged me to speak to the abbot. I met that fellow in the temple and looked at him - we didn't speak but he seemed welcoming.

I'm rather embarrassed at the prospect of going back, but I also want to. What would be the right way to approach things so I don't feel like I'm barging into an ethnic community here? (It seems to be, far and away, a majority-Sri Lankan situation.)

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 08:44

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CountFosco posted:

You have everything that you need already. The very fact that you feel hesitancy speaks to your qualification to enter respectfully. Return with kindness, openness, and respect and you'll have what you need.

Imagine that you're in their shoes. If a person visited your space, would you feel like they were barging in on you? Well, it would depend upon how the person approached, and their actions when they entered, wouldn't it?

What do you think is the cause of your embarrassment?

Primarily I have no idea how to start the conversation with the abbot (I think he's the abbot). "Hi I'm interested in the Dharma! DURRR"

# ¿ Mar 11, 2017 02:51

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CountFosco posted:

Subtract the durr and that seems an eminently reasonable way to begin the conversation.

It's not as though you're some boundless fountain of idiocy. Do not imagine that! You've come up with a perfectly reasonable way to begin the conversation yourself.

Well I went by again and nobody was there. I stood around like an idiot for a while and I saw that one of the glass vases that were stacked up in a corner had exploded or fallen over or some drat thing, so there were broken glass slivers laying around. I picked them up, which hopefully didn't disturb an offering, along with some random scraps of litter.

I have this sense that I may have entered a parable of some kind.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 00:34

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CountFosco posted:

Your sense of being inside a parable is not, I think, something to merely shrug off. It is, I think, important to "read" the world around you, to observe it and interpret it in an interpretive mode, at times naively, at other times more critically.

Also, there wasn't "nobody" there. You were there, and you had an experience which had value. Or at least, I suspect it did.

That's certainly true. If I go back a third time and something mystical happens, though...

Here's an actual question from the big "rules for being around the Buddha statue" sign they had posted up. They mentioned that they did not want people "backing" the statue while taking photos or, ideally, in general. Does that just mean turning your back towards the statue or is there some other nuance here?

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 04:54

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The Phlegmatist posted:

Yeah it's considered rude to turn your back on a statue of the Buddha, at least from what I've experienced with Buddhists from Southeast Asia.

Basically you'll have to walk backwards for a few feet and then you can turn around. If you're messing up the etiquette on accident it's not a big deal though.

Ain't like anybody saw me do it, but that doesn't mean I should develop the habit.

Senior Scarybagels posted:

maybe you feel compelled to clean it up because you see garbage on the ground?

Who is the you who sees the garbage on the ground?

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Buddhist practice centers looking for new people will almost always have either orientation or introductory things (usually once or twice a month) or will have someone specifically for new people to talk to to get them up to speed on the particular practices of a center. If you're checking out a Zen place of practice, just tell them that you're interested and ask if there's anything you should know or anyone who could run you through the steps around zazen practice or what have you. Calling ahead is usually the best way to do that.

Good call. It seems very Sri Lankan (they have a statue to Henry Olcott) for what that might be worth.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2017 09:43

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This is pure theorycrafting coming out of an unrelated ethical discussion.

What is the Buddhist perspective on eating shellfish such as clams, oysters and mussels? (As opposed to fish, squid, etc.)

Such things are animal products, of course, but some of these critters show less reaction to being eaten than plants do.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 05:33

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:57

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I thought non-meat animal products were, so to speak, kosher. (Presumably the least cruel versions available.)

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 20:27

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