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I think they're in a weird position marketing-wise, in that brand penetration has been so weak that they could reboot with a totally different campaign and none of the audience they missed the first time around would notice that this bright new thing had already launched months ago. They desperately need to kick off a new blitz ASAP, and hopefully they've got it in the works and are just waiting on the right release to centre it around. I remember when Sony pulled that emergency shift from super-melodramatic faux-artsy PS3 ads to the self-deprecating and comedic Kevin Butler campaign. It did a lot to rehabilitate the PS3's image as overblown and hubristic. Nintendo needs to figure out a similar kind of shift in their marketing direction (not necessarily the same shift, just a similarly drastic one). Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 19:33
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Yyyeeeah, I doubt even Nintendo thinks Pikmin 3 will be the game to break through to the market. They're probably putting a lot of their eggs in the Wii Fit U basket for that. A "Fitness Set" containing the game, console, and corresponding peripherals needs to hit shelves by fall, in my opinion.
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May 16, 2013 22:21
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I think it's important to distinguish the issues with messaging: sure, there's parts of the market that know exactly what the console is and aren't interested (or aren't yet interested), but there are also massive segments of the market that straight-up know zero about it. I think the latter issue poses an even larger threat to the console than the tumbleweedy library. You can't even begin making an attractive value proposition to the consumer if they literally don't know your product exists. I keep seeing comments to the effect that the Wii's non-gamer userbase is declining to buy for [REASON X], but the reality is that they're not even getting that far. These aren't people saying "oh, I see, no thanks" in droves, these are people saying "what's a Wii U?" Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 01:14 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:10
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There's absolutely zero buzz around the gamepad among the general public. I actually do think the controller is a real pleasure and convenience, but it's hard to convey why without the experience of having it around the home for a little while. Marketing challenges: It lacks the iconic simplicity of the Wiimote, is easily mistaken for a device with a different purpose, sacrifices a streamlined look for the sake of ergonomics (it's a fair bit larger than the internal components require so that you can hold it comfortably), drops the emphasis on physical activity as a selling point, and is a combination of various familiar technologies instead of representing something wholly new. I wonder whether Nintendo's next console will drop most of the legacy controller support and slink towards the Pro Controller as the standard option.
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May 17, 2013 10:07
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It's hard to frame the Nintendo exclusivity as a "retarded decision" when that's how it got the funding to exist at all. Nobody was backing Platinum to make it a multiplatform release, so there's no point presenting that as an alternative.
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May 17, 2013 11:05
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fivegears4reverse posted:I'm wondering if, like with the Wii being so explosively successful (by Nintendo's standards), these numbers are going to be unattainable for the NSMB series going forward. If NSMBU had anywhere near the level of appeal that NSMBWii had, I imagine that the Wii U wouldn't be struggling to meet a twice-revised sales prediction from Nintendo. NSMBU is a stronger game in every respect, so I don't think it's a matter of being less appealing as software. I think it's more that these games are no-brainers if you have the console, but not really something to buy a console for. You can think of NSMBWii as the rare core title to have brand recognition and a touch of nostalgia among parts of the Wii Sports and Wii Fit crowd. That crowd hasn't shown up for the Wii U, so they're not carrying NSMBU's sales.
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May 20, 2013 10:00
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Probably the only way to get strong and consistent third-party support is for Nintendo to sit down with developers in advance and go "Okay, what do you want in a console?" the way Sony seems to have done with the PS4. But even then, Nintendo would probably balk at the resulting manufacturing cost.
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May 20, 2013 22:32
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Even the XBox One's name is, like Wii U, a one-way ticket to layman confusion land. It vaguely suggests being some kind of pared-down/downgrade/throwback model. Microsoft will be more eager to throw around the big marketing bucks, though.
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May 21, 2013 19:52
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abigserve posted:I'm not sure why they didn't build it with the same or similar specs to the XBone and PS4. Is this a real question? Money. One might argue that the investment would be worth it, but ever since their experience with the Gamecube Nintendo has been extremely disinclined to participate in an expensive processing power arms race.
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May 22, 2013 05:26
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Mercury Crusader posted:I don't recall anybody ever saying anything good about P.N. 03. We can all make arguments about Zelda games that people didn't like but then years later did (Majora's Mask, Wind Waker), but what could anybody say was good about P.N. 03 in retrospect? Game give boner!!
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Jun 19, 2013 07:01
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So August is when the Wii U finally starts getting a trickle again of what should be great games. Here's what I would consider the standout titles of the fall/winter release schedule: Aug 4 - Pikmin 3 Sep 3 - Rayman Legends Sep 15 - Wonderful 101 Oct ?? - Wind Waker HD Oct 29 - Assassin's Creed IV Nov ?? - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze Nov 19 - Watch Dogs Dec ?? - Super Mario 3D World Dec ?? - Wii Fit U Three of those are multiplatform Ubisoft titles, but subtract those and you've still got a quality exclusive title a month for the next five months. If Nintendo wants to drive hardware sales with these titles, which are the best to emphasize? I'd be wary of leaning too hard on SM3DW, since a 4-player Mario title is what they launched with last year and that didn't set things on fire. Wii Fit U is going to be really dependent on how they bundle it, and whether the crowd that enjoyed the previous titles are up for investing in a new console for it (I will not pretend to have my finger on the pulse of this demographic). Ideally it'd have been great if they could have fast-tracked Mariokart 8 to be the big holiday release, since that's probably the biggest crowd-pleaser on their upcoming slate.
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Jul 11, 2013 07:39
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The idea of smartphones overtaking dedicated systems is a red herring that you mostly see parroted by investors and speculators who aren't especially familiar with games. A non-gamer might very well assume "games is games" and not recognize how extensive the differences are between a $60 AAA console title, a full-featured $40 handheld game on a dedicated system, and a 99 cent smartphone game. There are even Nintendo investors who think the company needs to release their back catalog for smartphones, not really understanding that very few titles in that catalog will be reasonably playable with touch controls and no buttons.
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Jul 18, 2013 21:34
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fivegears4reverse posted:unless you want to work on the low resolution of the GamePad and just really, really screw up how the games look by playing solely on that. I agree that the idea is not a solution, but the pedant in me also needs to point out that the Gamepad resolution is 854x480, high enough to fully contain both screens of the 3DS stacked on top of each other.
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Jul 26, 2013 17:54
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Honestly, the Youtube thing is just a weird little bit of confused controversy that has less than zero relevance to why the average person isn't buying a Wii U. Kind of like a lot of "solutions" that get brought up! The average person doesn't get up in arms over the things that gamers get buzzed about. They don't give a poo poo about niche features like Wavebird compatibility or a DS emulator or whatever weirdly specific "silver bullet" feature a hardcore gamer might maybe like to have once in a blue moon. They don't even really care about the Virtual Console aside from a couple Mario titles, and I say that as someone who's personally obsessed with having the whole Nintendo canon installed on my console.
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Jul 26, 2013 20:05
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What does "pull their finger out" mean in this context? Like, what policy action does it correspond to? Are they pulling the finger out a dam? What is the dam here? What happens when it bursts?
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Jul 29, 2013 16:20
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I've been playing through Earthbound for the first time and it's not particularly obtuse at all. I think the only times I've gotten semi-stuck would be some bits where you have to rely on Apple Kid to call and send the item you need. The text-based battle system might be off-putting to some, but it's not a confusing game in the least. This is kind of a tangent, though, isn't it? It seems like releasing the game has gone over very well with current owners, but I can't see it playing a role in attracting many new buyers. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jul 30, 2013 |
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Jul 30, 2013 06:52
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Bovineicide posted:tldr: Nintendo doesn't have any killer-apps until March. New consoles come out in November. Worst bomb for them since Virtual Boy. From August through December there's 1-2 quality exclusives coming out per month, it's kind of wacky to wave your arms at that and say "NOPE THE UPCOMING SCHEDULE IS BARREN". Also, Twilight Princess was better than Skyward Sword.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:06
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Bovineicide posted:Yeah, but they do mean gently caress all this late in the game because none of them are Smash, Kart, a new Zelda, or an actual, honest-to-god new Mario game. But here for some reason you're selectively defining 3D World as "not a new Mario game".
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Jul 30, 2013 19:14
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Bovineicide posted:Because it's not a new Mario game. We already played it on the 3DS. This is what I'm talking about when I say that Nintendo's been focusing on the quick, easy to poo poo out games as opposed to something genuinely new. Yes, games like that have high attach rates, but they don't move consoles. Well, it's not a port of the 3DS game, so I have to ask, which Mario games were new, and which weren't? Was Galaxy 2 not a new Mario game? How about SMB3? I don't think your definition is making much sense beyond being convenient.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:34
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Bovineicide posted:If you can't tell the difference between games with new mechanics and art assets vs. games that are pretty much recycled, you're being willfully dense at this point. Bullshit. There's several new mechanics showcased so far in 3D World, not the least of which is 4-player co-op (which they've never even done with 2 players in a 3D Mario game before). You're making this criteria up as you go along.
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Jul 30, 2013 19:53
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Pikmin has some gameplay characteristics in common with RTS games, but it's obviously pushing in a very different direction than, say, Starcraft, and it does so quite engagingly. Calling it "stunted" is goofy; it implies that since the game doesn't adopt all the conventions of the genre, it has no right to adopt any of them.
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Jul 30, 2013 23:39
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I think all roads are still leading back to the marketing issue; 3D World absolutely has the potential to bolster the effects of a solid marketing campaign, but only if that campaign exists in the first place.
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Jul 31, 2013 00:39
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Pikmin's genre categorization has nothing to do with whether it's good anyway (it's good).
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Jul 31, 2013 01:06
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One could just as easily argue that other RTS games are "stunted" by the lack of a heavy exploratory element, or the failure to feature the commander as an on-the-ground unit. It would be equally stupid as calling Pikmin stunted, but you could do it!
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Jul 31, 2013 01:21
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I'm going to have to ask if you've even played Pikmin if you're going to compare the game's exploration/adventure aspect to seeking out resources on a (often familiar) map. On a conceptual level, it's apples and oranges. You're continuing to try to evaluate the quality of a game entirely based on genre conventions and its rigorousness in adhering to them, entirely ignoring focus and execution. That's an insane way to evaluate a game, and even by the low standards of game journalism you would not likely be hired as a reviewer.
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Jul 31, 2013 01:33
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Bovineicide posted:I've always heard people call Pikmin an RTS because that's the easiest way to describe it. It's some weird mutant child of Zelda, Sacrifice, and Robinson's Requiem, and no one else has even attempted to clone the game, let alone create another game it whatever genre it is. People just label it as an RTS because you order your little dudes around to do everything v I'd be inclined to call it an "Adventure RTS" or something to that effect, since it absolutely has some of the major mechanics of an RTS game, but applied to a PvE adventure scenario rather than army-to-army combat, with a focus on direct execution of specific tasks rather than general command over a wide range of tasks. And none of this categorization business has anything to do with whether it's a good game.
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Jul 31, 2013 01:56
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v I don't know how that's worth getting upset over.
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I think the issue with complaining about the internal specs of the console itself (Gamepad aside) is that it's not hard to imagine an alternate universe where Nintendo invested in PS4/XBone-level specs and still had difficulty moving units. From a financial perspective, Nintendo's become extremely cautious about investing in powerful hardware because they don't envision a strong ROI from it within casual market they want to hang on to.
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Jul 31, 2013 20:03
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Everything in that Direct was relayed by news sites in about the same measure as news from past Nintendo conferences has been.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:49
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Their hand might be forced on a price drop if enough retailers take it upon themselves to do the slashing.
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Jul 31, 2013 22:27
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That idea is premised upon NOA being an analogue for SCEA in terms of competence and vision.
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Jul 31, 2013 23:25
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petrol blue posted:Actually, while we're having this discussion - what's the best use anyone's seen of the pad in a game so far? Giving two players each a full screen in Sonic Racing Transformed is pretty nice.
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Aug 1, 2013 01:42
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Basically the comparison is between a flop from a company that can't afford any more flops, and a flop from a company that can.
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Aug 1, 2013 19:29
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The two SSB games won't be identical (they'll have entirely different stage selections, among other things), but barring specific details of each game's development, the Wii U version should definitely come out first by a couple months. With a competitively-priced bundle that includes a Pro Controller.
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Aug 3, 2013 09:54
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They did show off trailers for some major 2014 titles- Mariokart, X, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros. But their policy has been to keep a lot of games under wraps until close to release, which is why we only just found out about Tropical Freeze and 3D World.
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Aug 3, 2013 20:31
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Quest For Glory II posted:This policy hasn't really worked out so great for them, has it? Counterpoints: Many successful Wii games (most notably NSMBWii) were announced very shortly before release, and a lot of Gamecube games were announced far, far in advance to no particular advantage. There was a time when games were announced so far in advance that they'd be shown off for one console, and then scrapped and overhauled for the next generation. It was far from ideal. There are obviously many issues with decisions Nintendo has been making, but I'd say this isn't one of them. It's very easy to point to every little thing and say "this is Part Of The Problem", but in this case I don't think it's true. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 21:05
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Pixeltendo posted:I've seen stuff from both camps. In this case, there are somehow complaints from both camps at the same time right now. There are people unhappy that they found out about this year's releases too late I guess, and there are also people unhappy that Nintendo has been announcing next year's biggest releases this far in advance. At this point, it just turns into a weird excuse to rant. "We don't know what's coming this year! We don't know what's coming next year!" . And then when it's pointed out that we do know these things, it's handwaved away because apparently the games coming monthly for the rest of this year don't count, or because one particular game on the wishlist (Zelda) hasn't yet been revealed as a 2014 title. Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Aug 3, 2013 |
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Aug 3, 2013 22:33
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A: I propose a bad policy B: That would be a bad policy A: So you're saying the current policy ISN'T bad??? If they cut the price, announcing it in advance would be stupid. It doesn't become less stupid if you also think they're making bad decisions currently.
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Aug 5, 2013 21:32
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Lord Lambeth posted:Wind Waker was a weird choice to do a remake as the toony graphics mean it has aged really well. They should have remade Majora's Mask and boxed in the Ocarina remake as well. I'd buy that for 60 bucks, even though I have both on wii and that master quest gamecube disc. Wind Waker was probably easy to get up and running due to legacy Wii/GC hardware being a subset of the Wii U hardware. And the elements that have helped the game age well also make it simpler to polish up for new hardware; the models don't look like they've been altered, so it's mostly the textures and effects that are getting revamped. A game like Majora's Mask would need to be rebuilt from scratch. There's no avoiding how badly N64 models have aged, or getting around the now-archaic N64 hardware.
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Aug 6, 2013 09:15
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Pawl posted:Walmart and Best Buy were selling the basic WiiU for $200. Does anyone know why every retailer seems to be getting rid of only its basic WiiU stock? The Deluxe is a better deal to the point where very few even care that the basic exists. Even here in this thread you always see the console referred to as costing $350, because the version with no pack-in, no charging dock, no digital rebate program, and almost no storage doesn't really matter.
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Aug 7, 2013 05:49
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I think everyone has agreed for a long time that Wii U was a terrible name to give the system, even well before it launched. I'm actually not sure I quite understand the phenomenon of posting the exact same name-criticism for months on end with ever-increasing anger and vehemence among a group of people who ALL already agree with it. The name was an error, but changing it now would be a bigger mistake, as market confusion is a big part of their current problem. The real answer is a marketing push that attaches some relevant messaging to that letter U.
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Aug 9, 2013 16:39
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