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systran posted:
Could not disagree with this more. Everything in the second act is set up in the first. The book does change, but essentially is speeds up and adds thriller elements, which I thought were great. I found the whole book extremely satisfying. There is no 're-inventing.' It's explicitly supposed to be the same thing with different names--that's actually a big point of the book.
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Jun 19, 2013 13:31
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The Ninth Layer posted:What should I start with next? I've heard good things about Bakker's Prince of Nothing series but is there anything else I'm missing? Prince of Nothing is worth reading. It's quite good in spots. It does feature some significant grimdark and it's take on women is pretty questionable for a series that is so strong in other regards, but if you liked the other stuff you listed and you don't mind grimdark, I would suggest you'll like it.
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Jul 24, 2013 13:43
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Snuffman posted:So is Felix Gillman going to write any more stories in the "Half Made World" setting? I just finished "Rise of Ransom City" and I liked it (wasn't as good as Half-Made) but I still feel like I've missed something. I'd love to see him answer, but I don't think there will be another book. Thematically and symbolically the arc is complete. With Half Made World we saw the competing forces of Gun and Line, striving to make the world. With RoRC, it's suggested that you don't need The Gun and The Line in order to have the gun and the line. I agree it was a bit unsatisfying compared to the action we got in Half Made World, but that's literature for you. I am still thinking about RoRC and need to do a re-read. It's really just packed with ideas. I think Gilman may be the legit heir to LeGuin and Herbert in terms of thoughtful fantasy.
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Aug 2, 2013 13:31
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BananaNutkins posted:The plot is unrelatable to me. So what a fictional fantasy country lost its name? It's not worth dying for. Just move somewhere else you tools. So national identity is not worth dying for? Not according to at least the last 500 years of human history, but who gives a poo poo about that? Bring on the "cool scenes." To me, GGK represents the promise of fantasy as a genre--to use the fantastic as means of bringing a new perspective on fundamental human issues. The idea of an entire group of people not being able to even say the name of their former country is IMO, an elegant way of talking about issues like genocide and ethnic cleansing, without have to write the grimmest of the grimdark novels. I though Tignana was quite good.
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Aug 8, 2013 02:22
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Darth Walrus posted:As I recall, there was a fair chunk of genocide and ethnic cleansing as well - sure, there were a few survivors, but they were heavily stigmatised and mostly served as an example for others. Also, it's discovered later that the magical fallout from the spell was slowly poisoning the entire Peninsula, which is probably a metaphor for the lingering trauma of an entire country being annihilated but also kinda sucks on a literal level as well. Basically, you do not piss Brandin off. It's been a while since I read it, but my recollection was that the literal genocide is only talked about in the past tense, and not foregrounded the way the name thing is. Good point about what you spoilered--I had forgotten that and it is also a nice elaboration of the metaphor.
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Aug 8, 2013 17:19
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General Battuta posted:If you're going to start Malazan start with the second book. You'll have no idea what's going on either way and it's a better book. I read book 1 a year or more ago. Wasn't overwhelmed, but didn't hate it. I found the next two at a used bookstore so I'll probably read them at some point. Is there something online that will refresh the salient plot points from #1 for me so that I don't miss stuff in the next two? Wikipedia just tells me what I can already remember, but I seem to recall some other stuff vaguely, like a magic portal during the garden party that went to some weird place.
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Aug 14, 2013 19:03
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coyo7e posted:^^^^ But not reading the climax of MoI ought to be a crime. Ok, thanks.
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Aug 15, 2013 03:14
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Fremry posted:For YA Sci-Fi, what about the Tripod series? I may be way off, because I haven't read them since I was about 12, but I remember liking them. I loved these. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the YA John Christopher wrote.
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Aug 28, 2013 17:48
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Hedrigall posted:You should totally come post in the Miéville thread. It's dying because there's been no book news since Railsea came out You could've discussed Dial H, but you didn't and now it's cancelled AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. Sorry, I am lashing out.
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Sep 10, 2013 13:22
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Walh Hara posted:
If I understand your post, you're looking for fantasy writers that are more prose oriented, and less pulpy. Try these: John Crowley's Little, big is a masterpiece. I just found his early 70s fantasy novels used online and hope they are also good. Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber or The Passion of New Eve (DO NOT READ wikipedia on TPONE until after--I just looked at it and it is terrible) Felix Gilman's The Half Made World and The Rise of Ransom City. The prose in these is not as good as the first two I recommended, but they are idea heavy books and the prose is better than your typical fantasy writer. None of these are swords and sorcery though, fyi. If you're willing to try sci-fi try Stansilaw Lem's Solaris or Urusula Leguin's The Dispossessed
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Sep 11, 2013 14:55
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Harrow posted:A little while ago, I broke a two-year MA-in-English-caused fantasy hiatus by jumping headfirst into Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. I loved it, and also just barely missed the Book Barn thread on it, which, I mean, drat. What really captured my imagination, aside from the whole social comedy angle, was the way magic was portrayed as something far away, unknowable, creepy, and more than a little bit wrong, but still alluring and seductive. I geek out over portrayals of magic in fiction, so Strange and Norrell was pretty much perfect for me. I just recommended it on the last page, but Little, big by John Crowley.
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Sep 13, 2013 13:25
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Neurosis posted:I disagree a little with the interpretation of the Half-Made World. Or, at least, I think there's more than that. The war between the Line and Gun is representative of the corporatisation and social and economic changes as the wild frontier gave way to the modern US. The Line had a lot of stuff going into them and it's not that clear cut but that's what I got out of it. I really liked both the Gun and Line and my big problem with The Rise of Ransom City was we did not get to see enough of either! I agree with Neurosis more on THMW, but my take on TRoRC is different. Ransom is just a different way of exploring the same themes of HMW. HMW is about the competing forces of corporatism and individualism in the new world. Ransom is some kind of of uber-American archetype: the self-made man, the inventor, the preacher, the salesman, the tent-pole revivalist--he has aspects of all of those. However, his experience completely subverts what is supposed to happen in the American dream--when he finally gains power, he's a puppet, caught as a figurehead in a cruel political system that he actually was hoping to create the opposite of. The time in Jasper City is the most interesting--it seems like the Chicago of the 1890s, the time of the World's Fair. The whole thing seems to be heavily influenced by The Education of Henry Adams and the idea of America bursting into the 20th century. The note that Gilman ends it on, with Ransom still pursuing his dream is a great encapsulation of the beauty of the American dream and the horror of its execution. The book has really a lot in it, so these thoughts are kind of half-formed still. I would recommend them both to anyone, and I really hope I have the time sometime to read it again and spend some time thinking on it.
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Nov 4, 2013 01:56
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Azathoth posted:I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with either you or Neurosis, and it's a good example of what I love so much about those two books. There's so much to think about with them, and Gilman doesn't bash you over the head so much with what he's trying to say that there's room for legitimate difference in interpretation. I wasn't trying to start a 'my interpretation is better than yours' thing. Sorry if it came off that way. I like your points about the republic, but rather that situating it in the order/chaos dichotomy, I think it speaks more to the false promise of 'city on the hill' style American utopianism. Which would also link back to also to what you're saying about kings and emperors--you come to the new world to get away from kings, but end up raising one anyway.
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Nov 4, 2013 18:26
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ConfusedUs posted:I've come to the conclusion that I read too much SciFi/Fantasy. Felix Gilman's The Half Made World is complex in terms of theme, but the plot is straightforward. The prose is also better than average.
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Nov 21, 2013 15:37
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sam16 posted:Does anyone have any recommendations for genre crossovers, e.g. heist books, spy books, private detective books and police procedurals in a sci-fi or fantasy setting? Try Sleepless by Charlie Huston. Huston is one of the best living crime/noir writers, and the book's main characters are a cop and an assassin living in Los Angeles as the world melts down around them.
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Jan 6, 2014 03:46
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paradoxGentleman posted:I would like to learn more about the Arthurian legend, as what little I know of it comes form Horrible Histories, and while they are amusing I don't feel comfortable basing all my knowledge of such a cornerstone of fantasy on them. I would like to read something that encompasses as much of the original legends as possible; although I consider myself a robust reader but I'm not sure if I can tacke the source material. What would you suggest? This. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur_and_His_Knights_of_the_Round_Table Wikipedia says it's a 'children's novel' but the writing is simple, not simplistic. I read it as a 12 yr old and imprinted the whole Arthurian legend into my mind. I must've read it close to 10 times over my life, I often pick it up just to read single tales.
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Jan 20, 2014 16:05
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Blog Free or Die posted:It can be pretty tough going, depending on how much it's been edited; the grammar and vocabulary take a lot of getting used to. The Once and Future King works really well as a stepping stone to it. Also it rules, one of my favorite books. I really like The Once and Future King as well, but my recollection is that it plays faster and looser with the source material, which is why I recommended the one I did. Of course, now that I think about it, I can't remember much of it. I think a re-read is in order. Everyone should read TOAFK anyway.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:40
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cheese posted:So I read Justin Cronin's The Passage and thought it was pretty good and well written in parts. Goons don't seem to care for it, but I continued on and picked up the second book in the series, The Twelve. If you got through The Passage but didn't like it, I suggest giving Cronin another chance reading The Twelve. It is quite a bit better. The first book really suffered from a few things. 1) A gripping narrative that is suddenly shifted forward with new characters and 2) a really weak middle third (the colony is boring as gently caress and most of the characters don't matter). The second book fixes that because 1) he adapts the time shifts a lot better and you move much more easily forward and backward through time (plus you are used to it) and 2) both narratives, past and future (present) are very good. I would disagree strongly with this. The Passage while not a great book is competently written and actually contains an interesting underlying idea about the treatment of race and class in the United States. The Twelve by contrast throws the ideas in The Passage out the window for a bunch of vampire mysticism garbage and a weak sauce critique of Bush-era politics.
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Feb 7, 2014 15:15
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Piell posted:What some people are interested in is a list of authors who are extremely racist/sexist, so that individual readers can choose not to support those authors, voluntarily. This CENSORSHIP SLIPPERY SLOPE UNDERGROUND RACIST RAILROAD panic is weird as hell. How is it weird? Here's what will happen: 1. List is made 2. List consists of extremely subjective standard (as it must) of what is (for example) sexist. So you have everyone from John Ringo (obvious) to Issac Asimov (hardly any female protagonists). 3. Much gnashing of teeth and arguing about who is on the list and why and why not they should be there. 4. THE LIST comes to overshadow the books themselves. The existing system works fine. If you're really concerned that you might accidentally read a terrible book, then look up some reviews, ask a question here, and then get it from the library. THE LIST is just going to create a bunch of drama and potentially hurt some undeserving author's sales.
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Feb 21, 2014 15:05
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Cardiac posted:
Another big point of confusion in the debate is are we talking authors or their books? I am would love to discuss the racism in Lovecraft's books, but who cares about some anecdote where he was racist in his actual life?
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Feb 21, 2014 20:54
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fritz posted:You know what doesn't get recommended often enough? This book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_for_the_Morning_Glory Hell yes. That book is so good. I know I have reccomended it here before at least once.
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Feb 22, 2014 05:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that's what I really didn't like about them. They're just college kids! In a fantasy world! Oh, look, for some reason it's Lancelot? And not like a Lancelot analogue but the dude himself, just like wandering into the story? GROAAAAN. But that's the point of the story? The land is where stories originate, so it's supposed to be the origin point for cliches and legends. Taking that as the theme, I thought it was good as well.
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Mar 17, 2014 13:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, the thing is even that concept has been heavily done by prior authors -- Zelazny, Moorcock, etc. The whole thing just seemed really derivative in a way that none of his other stuff has been. It probably didn't help that I've read a lot of King Arthur inspired stuff so I'm pretty picky when it comes to Arthurian treatments. I can appreciate it if people don't like it, but calling it "meaningless fluff" sounds more like you missed a lot. The scene with the Dwarves and the carvings alone is like 30 years of aesthetic philosophy nicely encapsulated into a couple of vignettes, with a great thematic payoff for one of the main characters.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
I would really like to read this.
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Mar 17, 2014 20:38
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Neurosis posted:It still happens, just when the women are rescued they are insufferable cunts about it and have no regard for their rescuer. When Mat rescued the wonder girls within 2 minutes they were physically threatening him with their wizard powers. I dislike the series as well, and also disliked that scene, but I thought the point was that the women have reverse male privilege, so naturally they assume that the dudes are still screw ups and should do what they say.
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Mar 27, 2014 17:52
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Neurosis posted:There's another Gilman book out already? I had no idea. My other reading will have to be put on hold. Yeah, I didn't know that either. You've let me down, internet! (Not you, Corin Tucker's Stalker, we're cool)
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Apr 1, 2014 14:13
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Cardiac posted:So I just finished Rise of Ransom City by Felix Gilman. I agree that more Gun vs. Line would've been more entertaining, and made for a better page turner. But if I can say this without sounding too pretentious, I think RoRC works better as a work of art. HMW was very allegorical and RoRC continues that inquiry, with heavy allusions to Chicago at the turn of the 20th century and The Education of Henry Adams.
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Apr 3, 2014 15:20
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uberkeyzer posted:It felt like it pulled in some elements of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrel, but mixed in with a heavy dose of CS Lewis's That Hideous Strength. loving yes, That Hideous Strength is one of my favourite fantasy books, and Gilman is one of favourite new authors. Still waiting for my stupid local store to stock it. It appears to be there now.
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Apr 15, 2014 14:00
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quote:Warbound, Book III of the Grimnoir Chronicles Did a quick google on this, assuming it was satire. It doesn't appear to be? Did someone really title their book this way for real?
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Apr 22, 2014 13:48
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VagueRant posted:Thanks for all the recommendations, guys. Another one you might like is The Prince of Nothing by Bakker. Huge caveat: read some of the thread first, link: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3440065 (stuff is mostly spoilered well) because it's more polarizing than Malazan. It does have a lot of politics, and the magic system is slowly explained (although some parts are kept secret for plot reasons). It also has a lot of grimdark and misogyny, and whether it's "makes you think and is there for a reason" misogyny or just the regular variety is one of the big debates about it. FWIW it's worth, I like it, although my feelings have swung back and forth about it over the years. It's not everyone's cup of tea and I am hesitant to recommend it sometimes.
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Apr 28, 2014 16:22
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Kraps posted:Does The Magicians by Lev Grossman ever get good? I bought the audiobook thanks to the Harry Potter reminisce thread being all "it's like Harry Potter but for adults!" before a bunch of "uhhh it's not really like Harry Potter" post showed up, and I have to agree. There's no one likable and too freaking weird, and not in a good way. It's about ennui among the powerful/upper class. If that doesn't float your boat, you're not going to like it.
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May 23, 2014 19:09
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Fried Chicken posted:They are making jokes about how slowly GRRM writes Oh! I thought it was about his cat boiling habit.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:56
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Megazver posted:The Reluctant Swordsman is a super-cheesy guilty pleasure portal + power fantasy about a terminally ill guy who ends up in a buff, young body of an elite swordsman with all of his skills intact, is told by Gods who summoned him into this world to own poo poo and totally does by effortlessly loving up who he wants to gently caress up with his leet sword skills and masterminding the hostile locals until he's in command. Oh and there's a hot slave chick that he totally wins over through not being an rear end in a top hat and they fall in love and have hot sex. I completely forgot about this series, but I read it when I was teenager and it was fun. The only thing I really recall about it was that the reveal about the wizards was pretty innovative to me at the time: they're not really wizards, they just have slightly more advanced technology (like gunpowder) and are really good at slight of hand.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:11
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Hedrigall posted:The Magician's Land! gently caress yeah! Let's do this! The first book had a thread that went on for a while. I remembering arguing with people in it. If you've got archives (I don't), it might be worth a read.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:22
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nutranurse posted:
I think Bakker is a good, but flawed writer. That makes him interesting. If he has a fatal flaw, though, it's this thing I quoted above. He creates a world where people can literally do magic but finds the idea that women might be able to escape oppression unrealistic. It reminds me of how Ender's Game actually shows the opposite of what Card thinks it is about. Getting authors to really explore their bad ideas often leads to the demonstration (at least to other people) of the flaws in those ideas. The idea that we shouldn't read or should avoid those books because they are about bad ideas is asinine.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:01
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Could you actually go into a little more detail on this? It's been a long time since I read Ender's Game so I'm not trying to coax an argument or anything, I'm just genuinely curious about the details (and yes, I know Card is a douche regarding some of his opinions, if that has something to do with it). Well, my recollection is that Card thinks the point is that you can't evaluate morality without intention, and that Ender is innocent of the individual murders and the genocide he commits because he never formed any intention to do those things. But, it's clear from the writing and the story that you could never do those things without forming an intention unless you were willfully blind or in an entirely implausible situation. This is most clear with regard to the individual murders, where the writing just obviously glosses over the fact that this super-genius kid is not able to tell that he's obviously killed someone. I think you could make a similar argument with regard to the genocide, but in even if you don't buy it in that case, the situation itself is so contrived that it becomes clear that would impossible to do something like that without knowing what you were doing. Anyway, that's a bit rushed, but I hope you get the idea of where I was going with it.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:Are there any decent Gunpowder Era fantasy novels out there? And don't say Harry Turtledove. The Half-Made World is about a conflict between magic train demons and magic gun demons in a U.S. style old-west colonial expansion setting. It's also really drat good.
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Mar 31, 2015 16:06
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Autonomous Monster posted:That might do wonders for him, but what cute Middle Eastern guy deserves to have John C Wright inflicted upon them? Jian Ghomeshi?
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Apr 14, 2015 14:13
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The Ninth Layer posted:Malazan is a great series. It's full of action, has a large cast of very memorable characters, and takes place in a world with scope and history. There's a lot going on and it's all very thought-out. It has a "show-don't-tell" story which spawns several continents and has a satisfying ending that ties together all those disparate casts of characters people were talking about. The writing is good and there's a lot of humor. The people talking down the series by saying it's a GURPS campaign or DBZ are seriously underselling the quality of the series. If he read 8.5 books of a 10 book series and couldn't be arsed to finish, it's probably not a compelling series. I've read the first 4, and will probably read the rest. The series to me is frustrating because it has moments of good writing and compelling action along with moments of "here are the notes of my DnD campaign." The main thing is read to read other non-fantasy stuff as a palate cleanser between books so you don't go insane.
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May 29, 2015 16:18
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nessin posted:I could handle the obnoxious rear end in a top hat part; I just couldn't handle that they were blatantly obnoxious rear end in a top hat for no reason. That and every single instance of world building was filled with so many inconsistencies you could have drowned all the characters with them. Probably would have come out with a better book in the end. They are obnoxious assholes because that's the central analogy of the whole book. Magic=wealth/privilege.
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Jun 1, 2015 16:53
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