9/11 Trutherism and what I just can't figure out about the conspiracy crowd

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > 9/11 Trutherism and what I just can't figure out about the conspiracy crowd

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Quift posted:

I claim that by applying numerology to the creation myth he uncovers an elegant and mathematical world-view within these texts. A mathematical world-view that is probably a better representation of how great thinkers like Aristotle, Thomas of Aquinas or Plato viewed the world than the children tales that is told at the surface.

The problem is, applying numerology to any text can never reveal anything about that text. It can only tell you anything about the person doing the numerology.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2016 14:44

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:12

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Shbobdb posted:

So if pedophilia were less taboo (and hence less expensive) everybody would do it?

As the kids are saying, "hosed up if true."

In my world pretty much nobody is a pedophile. I question your judgment if you think most people in your life would love to gently caress kids but don't because they can't afford it.

Yachts, on the other hand, are a better example. They are expensive so they are the realm of the rich but (importantly) they are also culturally valued in wealthy circles. I'd argue that since most people aren't pedophiles, pedophilia seems to have a huge cultural value in wealthy circles.

The next question is: why?

You continue to fail to comprehend what you are reading. The point everyone is trying to make is thus:

Some small portion of the population has unhealthy sexual attraction to children. Some of them probably don't act on that desire for fear of consequences. Others of that portion of the population act on their desires anyway, and some of them are caught and face consequences. Some of them happen to be rich and powerful, and they use that power and money to give themselves the ability to abuse children while insulating themselves from consequences.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 17:25

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

In reverse order:

Shbobdb posted:

So, now we have two separate and somewhat conflicting models.
xthetenth: The hedonic/libertine angle is possible but, as previously discussed, that seems to rely on a natural drive towards pedophilia that I just don't think is there. If you had an infinite amount of money, would you spend your time loving children? Would pretty much everyone in your social circle? For me the answers to both those questions is a clear and firm, "No, of course not!" Maybe I just happen to be lucky/selective with my friends so I'm not hanging out with budding pedophiles. Or maybe it says something about you . . . I don't know.

Neither I nor anyone I know (as far as I know) is a pedophile minus a billion dollars so they can get started with their abuse. But I also don't hang out with people who are that obsessed with money in general. xthetenth's point is that it takes a particular type of weirdo to be "self-made" mega-rich in the financial industry, and some of that weirdness could result in generalized "gently caress your society. I am so rich I can break all the rules, including the ones about child loving."

quote:

Jethro: As explained previously, the idea that there is just a small subset of wealthy people doing this isn't supported by the facts. Pretty much everybody whose anybody has been on the Lolita Express, to say nothing of the pedophilia rings that ran the Tory government in England plus Pizzagate but people want to refuse to believe that. When "a small subset of the ultra elite" becomes "pretty much the entirety of the ultra elite" it suggests that your model is deeply flawed.

Or my model is correct and "pretty much the entirety of the ultra elite" is an exaggeration based on flawed testimony, salacious news articles, and extending lines of evidence well beyond where the connected dots would support.

"everybody whose anybody has been on the Lolita Express" - News flash, rich rear end in a top hat hangs out with other rich assholes. As far as I can tell, gathering what I can from such impeccable sources as Fox News, the Washington Times, and World Net Daily, maybe two of Epstein's guests are alleged to have joined him in his child loving. Which isn't nothing (given that one of the alleged rapists is our current president), but it's also not the whole of the NY, DC, and London elite.

"pedophilia rings that ran the Tory government" - Is this the pedophilia ring alleged by one victim with no credibility, or the one alleged by some crank who quite possibly forgot to send the document he said the police suppressed? I have a hard time telling them apart given that I don't know which one was pushed by the one MP with an axe to grind. Or was that both of them?

Pizzagate - Another example of you trying to prove that a huge portion of the global elite are pedophiles by presenting as evidence a conspiracy where to believe it you have to accept that a huge portion of the global elite are pedophiles.

People who sexually abuse children exist. They exist at all levels of society. They are among the rich and famous (Epstein and Jimmy Savile), prominent locals (Jerry Sandusky, pedophile priests), and anonymous "normal" people (abusive parents, the occasional kidnapper). They put themselves in positions of power over children to enable their abuse, or they use their wealth and power to deflect attention, or they rely on people being averse to report abuse. That said, they are relatively rare, and the idea that they make up a significant portion of world leaders and the super rich is tabloid-driven, satanic panic-style conspiracy nonsense.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 21:22

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Shbobdb posted:

Lolita Express: Yeah, I purposefully hang out with known pedophiles all the time because we share other interests such as <empty set>. Would you hang out with a known pedophile? Let them treat you to special services like vacations? I wouldn't. Most people I know wouldn't.

No, I wouldn't. And if I were rich and powerful I probably would hang out with other rich and powerful people who were not known pedophiles. But it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that one of those rich and powerful people was, unbeknownst to me, a secret pedophile. If pedophiles spent a lot of time announcing to the world they were pedophiles they'd be at least a little easier to stop

quote:

Tory Pedophile Ring: Yeah man, these are all totally unsubstantiated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_paedophile_dossier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations

It's easy to keep looking, [url=https://www.sott.net/article/322016-Pedophile-rings-are-enormous-and-pervasive-among-the-worlds-elites]and plenty of people do./[url]

1) Hard to tell what's real and what's smoke from a quick scan of Wikipedia, but even if true it's a handful of elites, not massive numbers.
2) Yes, that well known source of global elites: marginalized, insular immigrant communities
3) Yeah, that looks pretty much unsubstantiated.
the other one I was thinking of that looked like as much smoke as fire (and involving a small handful of elites, if true) was Elm Guest House.

quote:

You are correct in your objection to Pizzagate: it is far more circumstantial than the other cases presented here. But as you correctly noted, once you've accepted the fundamental reality of elite pedophilia rings existing, Pizzagate certainly seems to fit the bill.

Especially once you consider Hillary's extreme hybris and desperation. Even if sex magic isn't real, doesn't Hillary strike you as the sort of person who would consider eldritch options to further her agenda? Republicans have been tapping into it since forever. Real or not, why wouldn't she give it a try?

Oops, my bad. I should have listened to the rest of the thread.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 22:17

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

El Puerco posted:

That would be the hi explosive that consumes all the oxygen. A wizard in china started the idea, then someone invented hi explosive, now we can make a building fall into its foot thanks to the modern, new fangled invention.

I don't know why I'm responding to you, but whatever. High explosives don't consume atmospheric oxygen; they bring their own.

Decomposition of TNT:
2 C₇H₅N₃O₆ → 3 N₂ + 5 H₂O + 7 CO + 7 C
2 C₇H₅N₃O₆ → 3 N₂ + 5 H₂ + 12 CO + 2 C

Thermite reaction (which isn't technically a high explosive, but whatever):
Fe₂O₃ + 2 Al → 2 Fe + Al₂O₃

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 21:37

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Viewtiful Jew posted:

There's no way to get through to people once they start believing in things like "Crisis Actors" is there? Once they've crossed that threshold it's probably impossible to get them back huh?

MasterSlowPoke posted:

You can't argue against an irrational belief if the believer doesn't want to change his or her mind.

There's no logical way to convince someone that the world is a sphere, Chem trails are a fabrication, or that a 64 year old white dude killed 60 people if they hold a position without logic.

Tias posted:

Not so, fortunately. A lot of conspiracists crack from the strain of isolation and the symptoms of untreated mental illness and get help. We get the occasional poster here on SA saying they recovered, usually by improving other areas of their life and realizing they didn't need to see ghosts everywhere.

We could make the world such a better place if only we could make the world a better place.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2017 19:38

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

vseslav.botkin posted:

Jethro's right, you haven't demonstrated it's "the entirety of the ultra elite" yet.

I mean, I went to mass when I was kid, but I wasn't molested and it's stupid to think EVERY priest is a pedophile. Similarly, there were definitely some real sickos in the Tory government, but that doesn't mean that all British politicians are and always have been pedophiles. Most importantly, I don't think Epstein was molesting underaged girls 100% of the time, which we know for a fact because it came up during the trial.

I mean, we have the flight logs. Don't you think it's just as likely some of these were just guys looking to cheat on their wives with prostitutes above the age of consent? Are you saying everybody on this list fucks kids? Kevin Spacey? Do you think Donald Trump is a pedophile?

To be clear: I am totally on board with the possibility of a massive secret elite pedophile network! But possible is not the same as probable.

I was searching through this thread for something else, and I just want to say the part of this post I bolded did not age well.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2017 18:22

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# ¿ May 12, 2024 01:12

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Mr. Funny Pants posted:

It makes no sense. The president is accidentally hit so what, the shady government conspirators managed to get a hold of a rifle and ammo, plant them on the sixth floor, convince scores of witnesses to lie and say that they heard the shots come from the TSD, another that he saw the rifle being pulled back in through the window, and on and on. That would be one hell of a logistical feat to pull off in literally minutes. That's not even counting the mountain of evidence tying Oswald to the shooting, including his possession of the rifle found on the sixth floor.

It also doesn't explain Kennedy or Connolly's multiple wounds

No, he's saying (I think) that Oswald was there and tried to kill the President, but the Secret Service agent was the one who actually, accidentally, fired the kill shot. So they blamed the unsuccessful assassin to spare the accidental killer.

E: F,B.

Also, I just want to clarify that I too think this is BS, just not quite the level of BS you first thought.

Jethro fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 25, 2018

# ¿ Apr 25, 2018 14:59

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