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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I feel inclined to re-post everybody's favourite Troper Tale:

quote:

Arguably, this Troper is probably the youngest of which who suffers from this Trope. This is practically the invisible label that's under the invisible Berserk Button of this 13-year old kid. He broke 33 pencils in his life, and had a good friend break two of those pencils because they were too hard. He even yelled at someone because that guy was the third person who asked if he could be punched for the third time, with a teacher only a mile ahead!

I have absolutely no clue what the last sentence is trying to say.

There was a response:

quote:

I actually poo poo myself when I read that. There I realized I wasn't just dealing with the usual horrifyingly egotistical Troper Tale. This person will BREAK YOUR PENCILS without a second thought. Should he meet you, without any regret, he will DESTROY your beloved pencil collection. Your Crayola, your HB, everything. That beloved pencil you had for three years? Snapped in two with no remorse. Even if you reinforce your pencils to try and stop him, he has a good friend, even better in the arts of pencil-snapping. And when he is done, you will be nothing, sobbing in a heap of pencils as broken as your dreams. And he will laugh. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
And my second favourite Troper Tale:

quote:

No formal training beyond watching a crapton of anime, but I've trained both myself and my younger brother (who is surprisingly skilled for a six year old...he uses that size to his advantage) to swordfight. I taught him basic tactics, and allowed him to develop his own style. We currently differ, as he uses a full blown broomstick(I don't let him near the actual models...), and I counter with my shorter, nodachi-sized weapons. Very simple tactic, though effective, really. Parry, thrust. Win.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

quote:

Major Tom posted:

Colonel Barry Smith: TROOPERS, WHO ARE WE?
Everyone: VANGUARD!
Colonel Barry Smith: AND WHAT DO WE DO?
Everyone: FIGHT FOREVER!

Yes, it's hamtacular. But drat if it isn't awesome.

drat, then.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Khazar-khum posted:

I've never figured out what, exactly, Major Tom is supposed to be writing. Novel? Game? Script? Script for a game? :confused:

A trope page.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Apple Tree posted:

Ah yes, 'lolis'. Another word in the TVTropes Newspeak lexicon. Normal English is so oddly lacking a word that means 'little girls you can lech at while being shocked, shocked if anyone calls you a pedophile in response.'

:tvtropes: "I'm not a paedophile, I'm a lolicon. It's accptable in Japan, you racist, so if you have so if you have a problem with it you're just a kink-shaming prude who obviously has a very vanilla sex life."

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

troublegum posted:

This sums up the most basic problem with everything on TVTropes. That rule about notability could very well be re-written to be "There's no such thing as notability unless we can make references to whatever obscure anime bullshit we watched this week." Tropers are hugely reductionist in their approach to every work of fiction - not just because they're trying to reduce them down to a list of tropes with terribly witty names, but because they're almost always desperately trying to crowbar in something that they can use to link things to their favourite anime's page. Usually the one they created themselves and are now desperately trying to link (or wick, in troper parlance) to as many other things as possible so as to stroke their e-peen whenever they look at the 'Related' page.

I'm pretty sure somebody pointed out (either in the last thread or the one before it) that TV Tropes only really made the shift from being a fansite for Joss Whedon and other genre shows to what it is now when Wikipedia made this really big effort to get rid of a lot of anime fancruft from its pages several years ago.

In any case, I definitely remember when Fast Eddie wanted to rename "Nakama" and remove the pages for some rather questionable anime series, there was more than one poster who acted like they were being personally betrayed because "anime fans made this site what it is" (which is probably true, but likely not in the way he means).

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Josef bugman posted:

Oddly enough its just bits of the West, Germany's age of consent is 14, alongside the Netherlands and Spain. But you never see this brought up alongside the problem of "does this mean ages of consent are an arbitrary line and that we should be more understanding of different cultures", no instead it is always used to justify "But its really okay because she's 400 years old and not really his actual sister" type of poo poo.

I think somebody mentioned in a previous thread that the national age of consent in Japan is pretty low, but most of the individual prefectures set higher boundaries, or something like that.

Is there really any reason for Japan to be "like Mecca for tropers" (as I believe Major Tom once described it) beyond its production of manga and anime?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Lottery of Babylon posted:

Looking at the page again, though, it does claim that the negative reception was for the author's opinions, not the author's works. It doesn't say what those opinions were, or mention much else about the author other than the fans supposedly worship him. Maybe "thinks lovely writing is good" was the opinion they didn't like? Or maybe they were all just jealous of this gorgeous art:

I'm reminded of another fanfic which used to be very popular on TV Tropes called Dumbledore's Army In the Year Of Darkness (DAYD), which had a number of sequels. It was meant to explain what Neville, Ginny, Luna and the rest of Dumbledore's Army were doing during the events of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I recall it was fairly stereotypical grimdark slog, by and large, and as you might expect there were a lot of "Why couldn't this have been the real Book 7? It's so much better!" comments peppered throughout the site on pages where it was mentioned.

Now, the especially unsettling thing about this particular fanfiction was that its writer was basically a cult leader, and the fanfic was supposedly meant to be some kind of manifesto.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Weep for the 33 pencils.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

CoolZidane posted:

A wise man once said "All things must pass", which means that all things which occur must inevitably pass. Eventually, this thing will pass as all things must. Because after all, all things must pass.

Asgerd posted:

You need a few more "supposedly"s in there. For every thing passes in time, even supposedly this one, maybe, I think.

"Every war ends in time, even supposedly this one."

Edit: Hahaha, the trope page even claims that Endless Conflict is "notable" for its "deconstruction of the space marine genre".

Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Oct 3, 2013

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Antivehicular posted:

2) "Child-girl" may be the most ham-handed way of describing a female child that I've ever seen. Then again, I guess when a woman old enough to have an adolescent daughter is a "schoolgirl," you've really boxed yourself in when it comes to describing an eight-year-old.

Odd, because "boy-child" and "girl-child" are normal enough (if somewhat uncommon) ways of describing children. "Child-girl" or "Child-boy" just sounds foolish.

The "Precision F Strike" trope gets on my nerves. "Look at me! Look at how grown up I am! I'm using... bad language! But it's a one-off thing, mind you, I'm not like those JERK JOCKS and RAPPERS!"

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Geokinesis posted:

Even though this is probably STDH, I do like that he had to clarify gently caress with two tropes about saying gently caress although it makes it sound like he said:
'Because I'm gently caress loving me'

I think he put two different links in the first and second half of the same word.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I've not read Gunnerkrigg Court (I've heard it's meant to be quite good) but I think there's a couple of pages about it for TV Tropes. I wonder if that's provoked anything.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Improbable Lobster posted:

In 2008 the site hardware crashed and they lost a ton of articles. Some of the members reached out to anime fandoms which didn't help things any. Of course, they have a piss-poor article on it as well as a pointless contributor list.

I think it coincided with a crackdown on anime fancruft over on Wikipedia as well, so you had a lot of anime fans who'd run afoul of Wikipedia's policies on notability migrating to TV Tropes instead.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Hedgehog Pie posted:

Sure, I like to just geek out over sillier stuff sometimes too, but unlike TV Tropes I don't claim to be an "academic resource" when I'm going down that alley. Who was it that kept saying that anyway, one of their forum mods I think?

I believe that was Fighteer, who said he wanted TV Tropes to be taken seriously as an academic resource, while complaining about people over-thinking everything, being too critical and not taking all media at face value, or something like that.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
How about this:

TV Tropes/Vince Russo posted:

Ultimately, Russo's "creative" output will give an observer the idea that his writing is done from a play book (or trope book, if you prefer) the size of a religious pamphlet, and that he has relied on this limited source of potential ideas for the majority of his career within professional wrestling, rehashing the same concepts and ideas in multiple companies with multiple (and sometimes, the very same) characters.

:ironicat:

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Well, of course there's no analysis for those things. Don't you know that True Art Is Incomprehensible?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Flesnolk posted:

Besides, this is the worthless fuckup who wants to kill everything not American and thinks Russia will invade through Alaska any minute now.

Using a giant railway bridge, wasn't it?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I've heard that fantasy authors are generally more liberal while science-fiction writers tend to be more conservative, but I've not seen any particular evidence for either assertion myself.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Fuego Fish posted:

Not always. Charles Stross is a science fiction writer who is incredibly scathing of right-wing politics and a lot of his futures envision a more free and open society, to the point where he has some far-future stuff where energy-to-matter machines have eliminated want and also most forms of government on Earth.

Terry Goodkind, a fantasy author, is also a raging objectivist and in his "Sword of Truth" series of books, he has the protagonist butcher a bunch of pacifist protesters who were "armed only with their hatred for moral clarity." There's also a part with an evil chicken, but the less said about that the better.

Oh, yeah, no doubt about it. Perhaps it might be more accurate to suggest that military SF writers are probably more conservative (David Weber, John Ringo, maybe Eric Flint) but, again, I can't really comment because I've not actually read any of their stuff (started The Lord of the Isles once, which is Drake's fantasy series, but couldn't really get into to it).

Anyway, no need to derail it into sci-fi/fantasty author chat, is there?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Oxxidation posted:

A lot of the confusion may also be because David Goyer is an overt fascist and tends to cram tons of unpleasant authoritarian/right-wing ideology into everything he writes.

See also Man of Steel where immigrants are literally portrayed as an invading army who kill the earth with their very presence.

Surely not everything; I don't think there was any of that in JSA (then again, I can't for the life of me suss out what he actually contributed to that series, since it seems like Robinson and then Johns did most of the actual writing and came up with most of the ideas).

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Anais Nun posted:

And then if you go back a few pages you get this.

Did he write them both?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Razorwired posted:

Because everyone knows that Spider-Man would have been a much better character if he was awesome and perfect at first, saved Uncle Ben and walked around being a Deadpan Snarker in a Love Triangle with Tsundere girlfriend Gwen Stacy and Fiery Redhead Mary-Jane :tvtropes:

Believe it or not, the Spider-Man cartoon from the 1990s had Peter Parker meeting versions of himself from alternate universes. One of them came from a universe where he saved Uncle Ben; he is a multi-billionaire, a national celebrity, the world's greatest hero, owner of a giant Spider-Man robot, engaged to Gwen Stacy, and the Kingpin is his lawyer while J. Jonah Jameson is his godfather. He is also a tremendous rear end in a top hat (dare I say, a Deadpan Snarker :v:) who never has to try (perhaps he is Brilliant But Lazy :v:) and almost messes up their entire mission because he's so used to winning he doesn't even consider the possibility of failure.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
You know, I've just remembered something which I discovered between this thread and the previous one. I shall share it now. Behold The Stationery Voyagers. I have no idea what this is supposed to be.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Sailor Viy posted:

Is there a place that his comics/novels can actually be read? I spent ages looking through the wiki trying to find a link to them. It would be amazing if these narratives only existed in the form of wiki synopses.

Hey, it's just like Endless Conflict! :v:

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Yeah, when I posted the link, I forgot to mention that this guy's a little to the right of Orson Scott Card on gay issues.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:

edit: also, I thought the title of his magnum opus Stationery Voyagers was a typo, but it turns out it is literally about office supplies

Pencil-Breaking Troper should be the main villain.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Antivehicular posted:

What's up with these guys and always wanting to make huge sprawling "universes/multiverses" to connect everything they make, anyway? I can only imagine it as a combination of delusions of grandeur and copycatting the stuff they consume, because the Star Wars EU has a lot to answer for.

I guess it's a case of their reach exceeding their grasp, where they don't recognise that most of these big fictional universes/multiverses developed over time and weren't necessarily something the creator of their favourite series had in mind when they got to work.

I mean, you do get examples like JMS planning a specific five-year story arc and saying he'd conceived about a thousand years worth of history on either side of Babylon 5, but I'd be a bit surprised if George Lucas had had all of these ridiculously well-developed ideas about galactic politics, economics, sociology, geography and history when he was working on Star Wars.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Antivehicular posted:

Ironically enough, if the stories I've heard are right, George Lucas actually did have a lot of that stuff planned out, but it was sufficiently boring and irrelevant that his various collaborators convinced him to trim the fat. It would be a pretty good object lesson in the value murdering your darlings, if Tropers were capable of taking that phrase in a non-Silent-Girl context.

Haha! Well, how about that?

Maybe it'd be more accurate (since you mentioned the EU) to say that Lucas hadn't thought out this whole expansive backstory for every single one of the aliens who made up the crowds in the Mos Eisley cantina or Jabba's Palace, while some folks would think that was indispensible world-building!

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

quote:

The falling-out
Wednesday, December 28th, 2005

Too surprised to say anything the day she received it, her ingratitude was all-too-clear on December 28th. A phone call to her place to see if all was well ended with her spouting insults and condescension, going so far as to call the gift "creepy" just because Tina Nares was based on her. She claimed that he could still e-mail her, but only to the Yahoo account that she only ever checked once in a blue moon at the library downtown. She stated over the phone that she wouldn't let him write or call her-or else. He tried to be courteous, but she only went on and on with her power trip. She even bragged about how she "didn't need the likes of him" once she started her job at Polo Ralph Lauren. When he told her she filled a void in his life, she replied: "Fill it yourself!"

Outraged by her disrespect and ingratitude, and not taking kindly to her threats, the Dozerfleet founder dropped her like a hot potato. It would damage his confidence for quite a long time. On November 5th of 2006, when they had contact again, he threw his anger and pain right back at her, stopping just short of telling her exactly where she could stick it. He even told her to throw out her present. It was too good for her. There was no response, but it's safe to assume she didn't keep it.

Sounds kinda like the Nice Guy(tm) version of Chris-Chan or something.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting all of this when I linked the Dozerfleet trope page in the first place.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Vaginapocalypse posted:

More awful opinions about women and condoms, nothing new here. Although "deathstyle" is an awesome word.

"MY LIFESTYLE! DETERMINES MY DEATHSTYLE!"

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Cease to Hope posted:

That said, it's important to keep in mind that Hitler also ordered Röhm and anyone sympathetic to him to be rounded up and executed in 1934, on the Night of the Long Knives, plus the whole part where homosexuality was grounds to be sent to a concentration camp by the Polish occupation, so arguing that Nazism was somehow a homosexual movement is back to crazytown.

I remember my A-Level history class had a good laugh when we were covering the Night of the Long Knives and read a source, purportedly written my Hitler's driver, describing the arrest of Röhm. I think was something like, "Hitler entered Röhm's room with a whip..."

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Literally Kermit posted:

H-Hitler belongs to you? Or you just own one of the many people who drove Hitler? :v:

No, we each had a Hitler and they all had their own drivers.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Dozerfleet RECORDS??!!

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Bah! Give me Christian and the Hedgehog Boys any day.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Jay O posted:

tl;dr How do you eradicate a TV Tropes page that doesn't need to exist?

If you don't mind me asking, keeping in mind that a lot of your fans are probably tropers, have you ever thought of making a vlog or something explaining why you don't like the site?

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Saint Drogo posted:

Ah, but Jay O is fair game because she bashes things (and worse, their fans :monocle:) for a living. Fast Eddie is the guy almost solely responsible for the 'no bashing (or real analysis)' rule on the wiki and he still has that little gently caress Critics message at the bottom of his page (y'know, under that anecdote about a conversation between him and his two sockpuppets).

Keep in mind that Fast Eddie is supposed to have said, "Constructive criticism is saying what's good about a work," and even if he didn't there's more than enough people on his site who seem to agree with the sentiment.

MrAristocrates posted:

Does anyone know what game Yahtzee reviewed that apparently lead to Fast Eddie deleting most of the page? Somebody mentioned that FE did the AI on it and that sounds like hilariously stupid drama so I'd like to know more.

One of the Wolfenstein games, I think.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Count Chocula posted:

There was apparently some evidence that Community creator Dan Harmon is/was a Troper (Abed definitely is). I like the show, but that wouldn't really challenge the idea of Tropers as thin-skinned and emotionally immature.

I've heard that Jim Butcher dropped by the site once or twice and might have posted in their forum.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Apple Tree posted:

Anyone got any content?

The last thing I posted was the Dozerfleet link. I can't top that, so I won't try.

You can check this out, though. Text wall incoming.

quote:

This Troper would like to say that, as a fan of the Dark Age, it makes me feel EXTREMELY alienated and frankly angry to hear everyone constantly ragging on it. Personal history: I grew up in the 90s, and my first comics were Youngblood, X-Force, Wetworks etc. I loved early 90s Image and Marvel stuff—and you know what, I liked Rob Liefeld and I even like "bad girl" art. Yeah, I said it, I prefer Liefeld and Jim Lee and Todd Mc Farland and the like to some of the "classics" like Perez or Kirby. And yes I read it—and read it—for the tits and guns and action, I don't feel "stupider" for admitting that nor should I. Frankly, it strikes me as childish and myopic to talk of overt sex, sexualization, violence, etc as things we should just pretend don't exist in "polite company". There is nothing wrong with a healthy sex drive or wanting a visceral thrill. The Silver Age was fun FOR KIDS but unless you're completely dishonest it was incredibly sterile, myopic, filled with racism and misogyny and to be quite honest it was disturbing in many, many cases. Maybe the covers lied a lot, but the fact that many of them featured CHILDREN in compromising positions with adults (eg, skinny dipping with Batman and Superman, sitting spread eagle on a battleship cannon like it was their penis, etc) and for all the talk of "too much sex" in the Dark Age it had none of that. I can TOTALLY understand people liking the campy and yes Narmy aspects of the Silver Age and Golden Age, but why should people like this Troper and his friends have to feel like outcasts because we enjoy some T and A, or watching people with big guns shoot aliens or whatever? I never understood why we get so much grief. I'll admit all of the "excesses" (though I don't consider them excessive per se) of the 90s, but my question is, so what? It's the same argument I would make about Dead or Alive or Gears of War today: yes it's very sexualized, yes its all about tits and gore...so? What right does anyone have to be discriminatory? What right do you have to judge me? I guess my question is, who died and made you God? The fact the entire Dark Age page reads like a treatise by Linkara on why he hates Image comics is a perfect example of what I mean.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Nucleic Acids posted:

I've heard he finally cut off his lion's mane, and is dressing better (at least in his book-jacket photos); would you say that's accurate?

I think he looks like a skinnier version of Kevin Smith now.

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