BSS Television Thread: Danny the Thread

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Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Prison Warden posted:

Superman's origin is so well known and so ingrained into the general culture that kids practically come out the womb knowing he's the Last Son of Krypton, so yeah it's a pretty big difference.

A couple of years ago, I was ending the school year and my students were getting a bit restless. So, I decided to do a couple of classes on film literacy, and I used the Donner Superman film to just show off some basic camera shots as I figured enough kids were familiar enough with Superman that I could show a scene without too much explanation.

I was wrong. Kids might know flying guy in cape, but some of the basics like Krypton, Lois, and the Daily Planet aren't as ingrained as you'd think.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2013 14:19

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 01:38

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

bobkatt013 posted:

Nope unless its a special case then DC owns the characters.

This is to big of a generalization, but no, not all Vertigo titles are and were produced under strict work-for-hire contracts.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 18:01

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

TwoPair posted:

Disney never owned the show, in fact SSM was off the air before Disney even bought Marvel. It got canceled because Sony sold all their animation rights on Marvel characters back to Marvel. However, Sony retained the rights to SSM, and its character designs, storylines, etc, so they got stuck where neither Marvel or Sony could produce it. Additionally, it was got hosed over even before the Marvel/Sony deal by switching networks from the CW to Disney XD in between seasons, which lost it a lot of viewers/ratings (because a lot of people don't even get Disney XD).

This isn't really happened either. What happened was that Spectacular aired at the tail end of Kids WB's life. After its first season, it was left without a home. By the time that it started airing on Disney XD it was pretty much shutdown, but not cancelled which was never a good sign. Basically, the whole production would have to rebooted and would have been if it was successful on XD. I mean, yes, the rights stuff is true, but the show was dead before season 2 aired.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2013 06:08

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

e X posted:

I thought it was that, and that Loeb is of the opinion that arc shows are somehow really bad and confuse people and that stand alone is much better.

No, it really wasn't. That stuff sort of damned it from never coming back, but once again, they let everyone go a good deal of time before season 2 aired and before all this happened. I'm sure Weisman fought for it, but it was a losing battle without all that stuff. If Kids WB had stuck around then they probably would have run into issues down the line, but also they probably would have produced a third season.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2013 14:50

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Well, it's worth remembering that EMH had a 52 episode run which for a lot of people is the magic number for ending a children's cartoon. Batman Beyond, Justice League before its rebranding, X-men: Evolution, and a lot of other shows have followed that rule. Hell, if Spectacular Spider-Man had been allowed to continue, Weisman had no illusions of going past a fourth season. There are exceptions, both The Batman and Brave and the Bold went to 65, and then you run into something like Advenutre Time that'll probably go as long as there is money to milk. Hell, Samurai Jack famously lacked an actual ending because it assumed it might be allowed to live beyond 52.

Still, 52 is a healthy run. They had a new direction even if that new direction sucks. I don't think anyone considered they were committing some atrocity.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2013 00:54

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Opposing Farce posted:

The common wisdom is that 52/65 episodes is a kind of golden number for syndication; it gives you enough content to put the show in infinite reruns without kids noticing the repetition, which means you can keep making money on it without the cost of actually producing more episodes. I think it's also the number most stations want in order to pick a show up for syndication.

Yeah, but profit does factor in. Adventure Time is a good example of a show that will just keep going because it's merchandised to oblivion and kids love it. But for most shows which will either have minimal to no merchandise, you'll see diminishing returns throughout the show's lifetime and it's better to just rerun old content and make way for something new.

Also remember that we are dealing with really specific age ranges too. 8-12 is the key demographic for most superhero cartoons although that's changed a bit and Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon have done a lot to accommodate to a 12-16 demographic as well. Either way, the point is you have a demographic that ages out pretty quickly. A 52 episode run is usually four seasons of thirteen episodes. If a kid starts watching that show when he's nine then he's thirteen when the show ends, and he might start caring less about cartoons. Even if he doesn't, he is probably less likely to buy action figures.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 06:29

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

notthegoatseguy posted:

Yeah, most of the Marvel 90s shows have aged horribly but they at least had a decent shared universe and, for the most part, good voice actors.

Rewatch the Secret Wars episode of Spider-Man: The Animated Series, and come back with that statement.

I guess my animation thread is being slowly devoured by this thread...

# ¿ Nov 25, 2013 01:10

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

SirDan3k posted:

Primetime live action TV, even on the CW, can actually pay the bills.

Depends on the show. When NBC was in it's golden age of Friends, Seinfeld, and Fraiser dominating television, they were virtually producing those shows at a loss. They made it back with syndication and those shows were successes, but an original airings didn't provide much in terms of profit because the success of the shows meant bigger paycheck for the stars of those shows. A more recent example is that while Mad Men and Breaking Bad have both critical acclaim and good fan-bases, there has been consistent battles between the network and creative about costs with Mad Men forced to push out characters and Breaking Bad being forced to compromise for a split fifth season because AMC originally wanted a shorter eight episode fifth season.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 17:18

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Lurdiak posted:

I'd imagine piracy and DVD collections have made syndication a lot less profitable for everyone involved.

Well, you have to remember that old people still watch a lot of TV. A lot of original syndicated programming like Wheel of Fortune or Entertainment Tonight is catering to an old audience and knows it. Also, remember that we're not running out of old people very soon as we have the years of baby boomers having just entered their fifties.

The bigger thing right now is that there is no channel anywhere that doesn't rely on either some paid programming, syndicated content, or non-original content. Take AMC which has big shows, but makes a good deal of its money off of movies that don't cost too much. There is always going to be airtime to fill and syndicated reruns will be a viable option until the house of cards collapses altogether. I think you are seeing a little more narrow of a field in what shows are picked up though. How I Met Your Mother for example is way over syndicated. In my neck of the woods, it airs on like five channels.

Kids networks are a bit different though. Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and Disney have seemed to move further and further away from airing unoriginal content. I think you can "blame" that on Nickelodeon producing shows in the 90s that had an aesthetic and branding which really made it clear what channel they were airing on. So, they do function a bit differently than a lot of channels.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 14:28

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

redbackground posted:

That would have been a perfect way to do it, too. Buuuut, DC.

Eh, I think Amanda should always be a subversive not central element in the DC Universe. Marvel's push in the last few years to make SHIELD the center of the Marvel Universe in its different incarnations makes sense for Marvel especially when the de facto leader of the Marvel superheroes is a soldier. I don't think it works as well for DC. Amanda and the corner of the DC Universe she usually lives in is cool because it's this dingy and shady corner of a world built around Superman's optimism. When you make her the center, she's a low-rate Nick Fury at best.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 16:13

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

We are going to follow Bruce Wayne through all the boring stuff no one cares about and then end the show before it gets to the part people actually want to see. Yes, this is how we are trying to sell people on the show.

Also, how can Joker, Riddler, and Catwoman be on this show if all of them are basically the same age as Bruce? The Joker might be slightly older? I guess the Riddler might as well, but both of them did not become super villains until after Batman started his career.

I hope that it ends up like Smallville and Robin somehow appears in Gotham before Batman.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2014 23:00

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Really the ideal way to do this show is have young Bruce and young Harvey basically be the Hardy Boys who always annoy Old Man Gordon, but you know the old crank loves those little rascals deep down.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2014 02:41

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Madkal posted:

Gordon looks.....strange to me.

I think he lacks the mild-manneredness that I usually associate with Gordon. Like, one important moment in Year One is when Gordon gives Flask the bat because it makes it clear that Gordon is more than how he comes off to people. His badass moments tend to be juxtaposed to him being this schluby middle aged guy in glasses.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2014 22:09

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

I just find it funny that WB hamstrung and severely limited the growth of multiple projects when Nolan movies began because they didn't want to "confuse audiences" but now they are doing things far worse with this Gotham show. Back then, there was no such thing as a shared cinematic universe the way we now have the MCU, but now that the MCU not only exists, but is actually very popular, WB is creating a TV show that has gently caress all to do with a very big attempt at creating their own shared universe, which also may have nothing to do with the shared universe they are already creating with Arrow and The Flash...

On the other hand, I do like Warner Bros. Animation's stance of not giving a gently caress anymore. It's nice that they let stuff like adaptations of classic stories and Super Best Friends and Teen Titans Go! co-exist with each other even if their actual television output has been weird.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2014 17:01

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Here's my pitch for Gotham

Gotham: Thomas Wayne is a spoiled trust fund baby until he meets Martha Finger, a fellow med student whose family grew up with nothing. Martha introduces Thomas to a whole other side of Gotham when she brings him to Leslie Thompkins's clinic on the bad side of town. The show follows the Thomas and Martha trying to help the meek of America's most corrupt city as their unlikely romance blooms. You can add some corporate intrigue, explain how they first meet Alfred, have them run afoul of the mob, and even have some Gordon guest appearances. Their first kiss would be in Crime Alley because of metaphors or something.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2014 21:55

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

A grungy rear end Gotham in 1981 would be so awesome.

bobkatt013 posted:

Would their nemesis be one Robert Kane? A buisnessman who steals from people he works with, and tosses them out on their asses and takes credit for all their work?

Yo, that's to on the the nose. Cain Powers would be a usurper who shows up in Season 2 to try to steal Wayne Industries from beneath a dying Wayne Senior, causing Thomas to align himself with a young Lucius Fox to rise to the occasion and preserve his family's legacy. So, Cain will be like a biblical reference and a gently caress you to Bob Kane for stealing people's legacies at the same time. You have to make this poo poo like barely subtle, but still attempt at being subtle. That's the CW way.

V I know v

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 24, 2014

# ¿ Mar 24, 2014 22:08

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

So apparently some big news is that the Flash is supposed to be in the new movie universe they are planning, but not a single article I read mentioned whether it will be a different Flash, or the TV Flash, making the TV shows in continuity with the movie series.

Spoiler: WB doesn't know either.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 22:03

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

404GoonNotFound posted:

Does all of Marvel NYC just have one big mutual agreement that if poo poo were to go down in Williamsburg, they'll just politely ignore it and let it burn to the ground?

If no, then why not.

Williamsburg is a fine place if you can ignore literally everyone who lives in Williamsburg.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2014 14:31

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Astro Nut posted:

Wait that's a thing?

one google search later

Oh my god that was a thing. I don't think that even aired this side of the Atlantic - I certainly never heard about it.

Weird parts of Birds of Prey:

-Gotham is called New Gotham for some reason
-Everything is framed in terms of metahumans. The super villains were all apparently metahumans, and Batman was the one who kept them in check. So, in this world, Batman's basically a Sentinel.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2015 22:18

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Barry Convex posted:

I never watched it, but it also seemed to be a really weird hodgepodge of multiple DC continuities on top of all the weird original stuff: main DCU (Barbara Gordon was Batgirl, gets crippled by Joker and becomes Oracle); Earth-2 (Huntress is Batman and Catwoman's daughter); the Burton films (Catwoman was a metahuman); and the DCAU (Harley Quinn exists, Joker is voiced by Mark Hamill).

Oh, yeah, and its Black Canary was just a teenager with psychic powers, who later turned out to be the daughter of the real Black Canary.

Wikipedia wasn't as big of a thing back then, but the show watches like someone read the wiki of characters and then just walked by the licensing department. There is this weird mix of pretty deep cuts combined with a complete lack of nuance or understanding for the source material.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2015 00:37

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

They could just cast Gina as Carol. She'd be a good Carol.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2015 01:58

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

It's the same model HBO and Showtime had and still have. You don't make money on advertising. You make money on subscriptions and original content produces subscriptions.

The fight at the end of episode 2 is so amazing because of how Cox sells the sheer exhaustion Matt is going through. It's a really simple fight, but every little flourish is followed by a stumble. Even when he carries the kid away, he has to readjust himself because even holding the kid is a Herculean task.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2015 03:48

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

So my girlfriend and I watch streaming TV like it's normal TV. We have specific days per week where we watch something. Which has honestly been really awesome. We don't tire of shows as easily or get bogged down. And its' nice to look forward to Daredevil every Tuesday or the Path every Wednesday.

But man oh man does that make the line at the end of the last episode we watched where Foggy goes "The People vs Franke Castle starts next week!" sound super corny and amazing. It probably doesn't feel that way when you watch it all together, but it definitely felt like "Tune in next week!"

Also I'm tired of this ______ of __________ poo poo for superheroes. It's not the Devil's of Hell's Kitchen or the Bat of Gotham. It's Daredevil and Batman. That's what they're called. And part of the reason we call them that is because those are catchy names.

# ¿ May 18, 2016 14:04

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Is there any superhero TV show or movie in the last ten years that has as visceral and purely superhero moment as the ice moment on Riverdale this week?

I really can't think of any superhero related media that made the character look as much as a hero as Archie does in that scene.

# ¿ May 13, 2017 20:32

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

I think that Marvel Studios and ABC Studios hiring the same actress to play two different characters is probably the last bit of proof we need that they are no longer on the same page. Funnily enough that was also a Luke Cage thing.

To be fair, Martin Starr shows up in both Incredible Hulk and Homecoming.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2017 17:22

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

TwoPair posted:

Ugh, do I have to watch Riverdale now? Everything I hear about it makes it sound like either the worst thing ever or the most batshit-insane.

Riverdale is fun as hell, and really has fun adapting the material. A lot of people mistake it as edgy Archie, but that's only kind of true. It's more adapting the Archie characters into a CW teen drama format with a complete awareness and reverence for the tropes of the format and the characters that they're adapting.

I think the best description of it is a comedy with no jokes in it. It's ridiculous, but disciplined in how straight faced it is.

It is a show where:

When Cheryl Blossom is attacked, she literally dons a superhero outfit and begins firing arrows at her attacker
It is a show where there is a mobster from Montreal named Papa Poutine with a son named Small Fry
It's a show where Pop's closing down or being owned by someone bad is still constantly a plotline
It's a show where the bad guy gang the South Side Serpents from Lil' Archie are a literal ethnicity
It's a show where the main drug is basically pixie sticks.

Riverdale is an amazing show. Season 1 is a tighter and better experience than Season 2, but it's overall one of the most fun things on TV.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2018 19:38

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Rhyno posted:

Riverdale is the best show on the CW by a wide margin.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is very good

Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 15, 2018

# ¿ Sep 15, 2018 21:48

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Medullah posted:

Yeah I know, I just mean that it wouldn't be out of character for Riverdale to have it.

I mean the Black Hood basically was the Punisher.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2019 21:53

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

I feel like people also forget the part where Killmonger is a CIA Agent who specialized in toppling societies and was using his skills in Wakanda. They also forget the parts where he literally destroys the method of other people rising to power, doesn't listen to the tribal representatives, and over empowers the police.

Like I don't really dig the whole thing with Martin Freeman's character, but it's this iffy element that people have blown up.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2019 03:18

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

I think the thing that bothers me is that Black Panther is a kind of a really loving smart movie...

Like beyond just the brilliant production design or the way the movie sort of tours through genres recasting black characters into gladiator films, sci/fi films, spy films, heist films, and fantasy films after starting from the usual gangsters in the hood beginning... there is a lot to unpack in what the movie is saying about privilege, colonialism, and intersectionality.

The movie ends in this pretty bold way. Killmonger is broken because America both through ancestral trauma and how the CIA taught him to be a monster. He's right that there is something broken in how Wakanda interacts with the world, but he himself is too broken to actually rule Wakanda in a way that is not authoritarian in itself. The fact that he and the tribe he aligns himself are coded as the antagonists because they're dressed like cops is pretty loving bold.

But people want to say things that sound vaguely smart "T'Challa worked with the CIA" or the ridiculous goal post shifting of "How progressive is a film with a KING" not actually think about the movie holistically.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2019 19:23

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 01:38

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

kustomkarkommando posted:

I mean there are plenty of African perspective pieces who happily rip into Black Panther as an extension of the western imaginations vision of Africa, with the fixation on "tribes" and ancient magical customs and sweeping sunset hued vistas and noble warriors and ceremonial combat which you know is fundamentally true and inherent in the source material.

Black Panther is gonna raise a few eyebrows from postcolonial minded commentators regardless tbh before any CIA agent pops up.

Yeah, I don't want to paint the film as critique-proof.

I think it's just been a victim of people who want to race to the quickest and most basic hottakes without actually thinking about the movie.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2019 20:00

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