NIN/Reznor/Ross/HEALTH/Associated Acts: We're in this together now

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david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Is Pretty Hate Machine really considered innovative? I think it's probably the most derivative-sounding NIN album, owing a ton to bands like Depeche Mode. TDS is really the most unique of them - tons of bands made ripoffs of PHM/Broken, but virtually no one even attempted to sound like Spiral. The closest thing I've heard to it is Splinter by Gary Numan, released last year (!).

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 03:27

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 12:11

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

TOOT BOOT posted:

I wouldn't call PHM or Broken or even TDS innovative. PHM sounds like Ministry's With Sympathy, Broken again sounds like what Ministry was doing at the time, and TDS is like 90-92 Era Skinny Puppy with better production. The Fragile is where I'd say the 'NIN sound' first originated and is most exemplified, though you can see hints of it in FTDS.

Broken I'll give you, but With Sympathy? I think DM was a way bigger influence. They had a much gloomier mood (most of the time

) and were experimenting with weird sampled percussion. I also think TDS is pretty drastically different in style from Too Dark Park / Last Rights; Skinny Puppy always liked to sound like barely contained apocalyptic chaos with tons of vocal samples. The most puppyish thing off TDS is probably The Becoming, although off the top of my head I can't think of a single NIN song with a movie dialogue sample in it.

To Mishaco's point, I think one of Trent's greatest strengths was always fusing his pop sensibilities with the harsher noisier stuff. For the intended audience PHM may very well have been a breath of fresh air. The internet is full of those awful, tired discussions on whether NIN was "real" industrial since he dared to make things more approachable than the typical Wax Trax act.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 05:23

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

TOOT BOOT posted:

Like half the PHM demos had movie dialog in them but they was all removed for the proper release.

That's really interesting.

Samopsa posted:

The start of Mr. Selfdestruct is a voice sample from THX 1138.

Well, sure, and The Becoming has a loop from Robot Jox, but neither one of those are similar to the typical Skinny Puppy or Ministry samples.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 13:35

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Leon Einstein posted:

Sanctified had that Midnight Express sample in the bridge. It was taken out on the remaster.

Ah, I totally forgot about that one! Did he take it out for legal reasons?

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 16:14

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

The cynical side of me says that you'll be able to buy digital/CD versions after the holiday rush. At least I hope so

I have a turntable for cheap-rear end 80s schlock and old school country. If I'm gonna buy something on that awful format I don't want to spend real money on it.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 06:54

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Vince MechMahon posted:

Can I ask why you think it's an awful format? I'm not audiophile, but most of my records sound real good, plus they look cool.

Well:
* It's a complete pain to flip sides all the time. If the album was designed for vinyl it's one thing, but I had one where they had to split it on two LPs for length and the sides were like 15 minutes.
* Sound quality is mediocre
* Player/albums both require regular cleaning and/or maintenance
* Expensive

I only have one because I got the player for free (although I did have to get it serviced) and I find rooting through LPs at a record store somehow entertaining.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 16:43

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

hatelull posted:

Context: Given the new EP several listens, and it does not suck. I think "Burning Bright (Field on Fire)" might be my favorite thing he's done in a bit. Such a wonderful thing, that track. Here's hoping for a proper major tour.

It doesn't suck but it's not very memorable to me. I honestly forgot I bought it. Although it's superficially different sounding from HM, I think there's a similar samey-ness to the tracks. I still have hope for the next LP but I'm fully resigned that it will probably be the same "pleasant but a bit forgettable" level as recent NIN.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 19:12

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Ghosts was all over NPR when it was released as background music, segues, etc. This American Life in particular really seemed to use it heavily.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2017 15:26

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Sir Lemming posted:

Sorry, I meant lower fidelity than the digital downloads. I don't pretend any vinyl sounds demonstrably better than CDs, as in fact there are many factors that often make it sound worse. But in the digital world, more numbers = more better no matter how you slice it. If I can get lossless digital and some kind of physical thing to go along with it, doesn't matter much to me whether it's a CD or not.

Nope. Stuff like 24bit/192KHz is useful during the recording/mixing process but for playback good ol' 16bit/44.1KHz is better.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2017 04:17

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Sir Lemming posted:

But Trent wouldn't lie to us!

In all seriousness, that's pretty interesting. But outside the whole 192Khz idea (which sounds like overkill), 48 & 96 are standard for DVDs and blurays, right?

DVDs/BluRay support a variety of audio formats, especially if you also lump in the audio-only versions of them. 48KHz probably exists because of technical reasons (the math works out a bit easier than 44.1KHz which is a bit of an odd number). I don't know why they bothered going beyond that, but an AV receiver is more likely to add effects (stuff like "late night mode" that compresses the dynamic range) so maybe that has something to do with it.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2017 15:31

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Leon Einstein posted:

After giving the new EP some time, I still don't think it's that good. Probably my least favorite NIN release.

I completely forgot that it existed. The last track is worth it for the novelty but I agree, it's not very good or memorable. It did cause me to listen to Hesitation Marks again which is better than I remembered (and much better than the EP), but it has the same problem that there's not a lot of stuff that sticks with you.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2017 22:25

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Vince MechMahon posted:

How could you turn me into this
After you just taught me how to kiss
You

That will always be his worst lyric. Always.

There was some cover of that song where they replaced the second line with "I'm gonna have to give this line a miss"

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 21:41

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Immolat1on posted:

I'm always curious about this when lyrical content gets brought up, what do you guys consider really good lyrics?

I know NIN lyrics can get pretentious sometimes (and a few instances of down right what the christ) but out of most of rock music I listen to I rate NIN pretty high. Like everyone loves Led Zeppelin lyrics but one of their biggest hits is about how Robert Plant is gonna shove his huge dong into some whore. Closer is the same thing but said so much more... eloquently? I mean poo poo the lyrics to Reptile usually give me goose bumps.

When comparing NIN to other (relatively) mainstream industrial bands, Trent does OK:
- Ministry: a lot of the time it's indecipherable anyway, the rest ranges from OK to bad.
- FLA: mainly nonsensical and formulaic cyberpunk stuff with some occasional highlights
- KMFDM: rarely ever serious
- Skinny Puppy: virtually impossible to figure out what he's rambling about, but it's probably drugs and/or animal torture

Really in this genre, as long as it doesn't sorely stick out as bad it's Good Enough. Trent usually doesn't hide his voice in layers of distortion so his lyrics are more noticeable than some of his peers.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2017 20:42

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

TOOT BOOT posted:

One is named Lazarus Echo, I don't know about any of the others.

Two of the others are Balthazar Venn and Nova Lux, Wikipedia doesn't know the fourth. Judging by the others - Astral Volt? Helios Candela?

# ¿ Mar 19, 2017 05:07

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

There definitely was a mini-cd version. When I borrowed it from someone in high school they just had a 6-track CD. When I later bought it I was very surprised to find two extra songs on it. When I asked the guy he said "oh yeah, it came with a cool mini cd but I lost it."

# ¿ Jun 7, 2017 13:01

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

You know what you are? Collectors. Sounds like the mark has been made on your vinyls.

Kinda I want to order this and looking forward to joining you, finally, but I gave up because I do no want this and I have the discipline not to order. That's the beauty of being numb underneath it all.

that was not very good

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 05:24

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

polyester concept posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xg-Wk2DEXs

I think Weird Al nailed it too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqdAxikAv0o

# ¿ Jul 14, 2017 01:41

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Call Me Charlie posted:

Less Than seems like TR lashing out at the people that voted for Trump.

That's probably why it's ringing so hollow to me. As if, Ms. 'We Came, We Saw, He Died. Hehehe' wouldn't have had missile trails across the sky shortly after getting sworn in or that it's somehow lower/middle america's fault that they were presented with a terrible set of choices.

It's also crazy hypocritical coming from Mr. '1%, working at Apple, 4 kids, flipping mansions, hobnobbing in hollywood' Reznor. Where was this loving rage in 2008-2016?

(all that said, it isn't a bad song)
(also, combining eps into a single album is basically what he did for htda and that sucked so i'm not looking forward to the lp unless it's drastically reworked)

Hell yeah

I wonder if Uncle Al (or is he Grandpa Al nowadays) still has a good album in him. If that "only makes a good album under a Republican president" thing has any truth to it he couldn't ask for better conditions. Comedy option - they could reunite 1000 Homo DJs and make another single/EP. Can you imagine!?

# ¿ Jul 18, 2017 13:40

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Periodiko posted:

Sorry for being that guy, but does anyone else really dislike the sound Trent has been sort of stuck in during this post How To Destroy Angels phase of his career? This really murky bass and low-mid heavy sound dominated by obscure physical analog synths playing farty lines, overtly synthetic drum sounds, filtered white noise snares and bass drums that are all low end, weird glitchy screaming oscillator noises spliced in for background texture, and then a nominal "real instrument" sound like a heavily filtered piano or a guitar which we've been hearing since With Teeth, playing simple melodies and harmonic ideas we've been hearing since With Teeth.

I'm not trying to drag the new album, I like it, but it feels like he's been making the same record over and over for years and for a guy whose known for his production, he keeps using this ugly, limited palette of the same guitar sounds, the same piano sounds, the same synth and drum sounds, for a decade.

You have a point. I would say that he needs to incorporate more outside influences but it actually seems like he does work more closely with others now than he used to. Maybe he's just the boss in the studio?

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 04:58

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

magiccarpet posted:

the thing is that he used to take whatever was popular and do it really well while still in his sound. phm was better ministry, broken won best metal song of the year, tds is 90s sampling with a concept record, perfect drug is honestly one of the best electronica songs ever, fragile did late smashing pumpkins way better, year zero is in rainbows/radiohead marketing ideas and all this new stuff is just the drive soundtrack. the problem is cliff martinez is way better at this stuff.

this ep is better than the last one. the plugin overdose at the end is dumb as poo poo.

Not sure I agree about your central premise. I mean, most musicians are going to be influenced by what's happening at the time, but I don't know that Trent built on it like that. PHM was way more inspired by things like Depeche Mode than Ministry (I would say Broken is closer to Ministry, especially their live sound of that period). And you're saying The Fragile was inspired by Adore?

One major factor for the change of sound was probably the drugs... he got cleaned up after The Fragile, right? Uncle Al of Ministry seems to have mixed feeling about his addiction since he claims he wrote some of his best songs while blasted out of his mind. Then again, he probably wrote Dark Side of the Spoon while severely hosed up too...

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 18:04

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

il_cornuto posted:

When I was in my teens and early 20's I'd just sit and listen to at least one album pretty much every night. Nowadays the closest I'll get to that is listening to music while walking or doing housework, which still isn't quite the same. I think the fact that I have easy access to so much great music makes me give each individual album much less attention, because there's always a whole pile I haven't even heard yet. So even for someone like me, who really values actual albums over singles and playlists, there's definitely a more disposable element that's crept in even with albums I really, really like.

There's also that as you get exposed to more and more music it becomes harder for something to genuinely surprise you and leave a mark. A lot of the earliest CDs I bought were stuff that was completely different from anything I had heard before. Cliches can be still be fresh and exciting if they're new to you.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2017 18:13

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Yeah The Hurting is good; I was worried it might be forgettable outside of Mad World when I got it but there's some good stuff on there.

I'll get the obvious ones out of the way:

As was mentioned earlier, Depeche Mode was a massive influence on PHM. Check out the album Black Celebration especially. Other stuff like People Are People and Blasphemous Rumours feels close too.

Oh, Cabaret Voltaire, of course.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2017 05:22

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

sticklefifer posted:

On the other hand, I didn't have a lot of money to burn growing up. Blowing my allowance on a CD for that one radio hit I really liked and then finding out it's the only good song on the album, then getting $3 for it at a We Buy Used CDs store a month later was pretty disheartening and made me discover less music. I still appreciate music a lot and certain albums still really resonate with me, but I don't miss the crapshoot of the music market at all.

I still get the crapshoot kick from used record stores. Find a CD by a band I'm vaguely aware of and see if I like it. Sometimes it doesn't work (I somehow have like five Sigur Ros albums despite not being overly enamored with any of them - really hit some kind of sunk cost fallacy there) but the times it does payoff makes it totally worth it (the latest "discovery" I made was Lamb). I mean, I could just browse around online and buy whatever, but there's a certain thrill in listening to an album for the first time when you haven't heard anything from it.

If I was paying $20 for each album I probably wouldn't be doing this, though. I remember trying real hard to find some kind of highlights out of a couple of blind-buy (deaf-buy?) CDs I got back in the 90s...

# ¿ Jul 30, 2017 23:25

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

The 300 trailer using Just Like You Imagined was a pretty good choice too.

Although if your favorite trailer is Terminator Salvation you clearly haven�t seen the STRIKE COMMANDO trailer. Don�t bother watching the movie; the trailer has like 95% of the kills in it

# ¿ Jan 18, 2018 03:14

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Pirate Jet posted:

The $300 collector's edition of Hesitation Marks doesn't even include the album.

I can�t find anything about a collector�s edition, what was this if it doesn�t have the album?

# ¿ May 12, 2018 15:08

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Leon Einstein posted:

PHM is great, but obviously the production is dated. That's What I Get is also the whiniest song with the corniest line in the NIN catalog, which is saying a lot.

Lol, the version on one of those cover-tribute albums replaced it with �I�m going to have to give this line a miss� which was great.

# ¿ May 31, 2018 16:54

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

STONE COLD 64 posted:

is the album available for digital purchase anywhere i don't have a record player

Not yet; it doesn�t release digitally for a few days still. You can preorder it on iTunes.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2018 02:01

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Stinky_Pete posted:

Yeah it seems more like a concept album that you listen to in whole once or twice (and then a couple years later when you remember it and are in the mood) than Add Violence where a couple of standalone songs are still in my big shuffle rotation.

I paid for it anyway and didn't realize I'd be receiving the vinyl, so since I know almost nothing about vinyls and don't have a record player I came in here to ask about the texture I'm seeing on the B-side label, which resembles a track:

Is this possible, or is it just an aesthetic choice? I assume paper is not playable but I thought I would ask if anyone has tried it

It�s very possible that�s playable; I think one of Jack White�s gimmick vinyls did that among others.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2018 14:08

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

I don�t like Pilgrimage very much and if we�re counting lyrics I always have to skip Starfuckers. The song is kind of tedious too.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2018 17:23

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Vince MechMahon posted:

Probably one of the super generic boring tracks on The Slip, his worst album.

I still can�t think of it as a �real� album because of how it was released. It felt like a bunch of outtakes from Year Zero and other projects cobbled together as a freebie.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2018 00:36

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Caseman posted:

Starfuckers is a stain on an otherwise perfect double album, that has to be the worst right?

It�s the worst song on there, but the album really needed a better closer than Ripe With Decay. Nobody has ever played that song outside of listening to album all the way through.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2018 02:40

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

sleepwalkers posted:

I think that's a bit like saying Pinion sucks because it doesn't get a lot of rotation outside of being a lead-in.

Pinion is catchy though, Ripe With Decay is just there. Leave it off and I don�t think it changes the album a bit.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2018 03:58

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

TOOT BOOT posted:

I wish he put out an album between TDS and The Fragile with more stuff like The Perfect Drug.

Didn�t he say in interviews pre-Fragile that he threw away �an album full of Closers,� whatever that means? I wanna hear that one.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 02:47

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

glam rock hamhock posted:

Sorry I currently can't stop laughing because I keep picturing Trent Reznor holding a puppy and enthusiasticly singing "you are the perfect dog" to it

perfect dog spotted

(how is this video not on yt in non-garbage quality)

# ¿ Aug 1, 2018 01:59

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

axelblaze posted:

The other seat wasn't actually his, it was an empty seat. Also, while I didn't actually talk to staff, I thought that suggestion might have more to do that the guy just started broing out and screaming nonstop at me when I very weakly tried to scooch him over towards where his actual seat was.

Also at the "after I laid hands on the guy" like slight physical contact is worth going full aggro about. Also I am an antisocial goon and I don't freak the gently caress out when someone touches me because why is that a thing that anyone would do? People that act that was just seem like assholes and I'm not sure why your defending it against a threat of having him thrown out that didn't even happen. All that happened was I explained the situation politely, he ignore me, I tried to move him over when he was literally making it impossible see, and he screamed at me for like an entire song while I tried to reexplained the situation and tried to calm him down. Really not sure why I'm the rear end in a top hat here but whatever

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_naked_choke

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 14:14

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

axelblaze posted:

It's cool, it's just, like with the standing during a concert thing, it was a thing I didn't think I was going to have to defend.

...what?

It�s not any deeper than �should�ve choked him out bro lol�

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 20:14

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

TOOT BOOT posted:

I feel sorry for people like Vanilla Ice, it's gotta suck going from being on top of the world for six months to being broke, and the punchline of a joke. That's gotta gently caress with you.

There�s some video out there of him saying it �ruined his life� and he hates the song. He made a nu-metal version of it in 1998; I guess in an attempt to change his image.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2019 14:08

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Pops Mgee posted:

Did anyone listen to the album without following the arg? I can't separate them in my mind after following that thing for months and can't imagine it's the same experience without knowing all the background to the whole story.

Me; I�m not sure what the ARG even gives you. Doesn�t the album pretty much explain everything?

# ¿ Apr 19, 2019 13:13

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

Are you under 18?

Perfect Drug on their official YouTube is right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn3j6-yQKWQ

Holy poo poo

That�s the first time I�ve seen that video in reasonable quality at the correct aspect ratio in 22 years

# ¿ Apr 25, 2019 03:34

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# ¿ May 18, 2024 12:11

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Anybody else remember Jakalope?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t1EglpxYew
First thing that popped into my head when I heard "poppy NIN"

# ¿ Jun 6, 2019 03:21

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