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vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
When did modern military recruit training start. As in full metal jacket, boot camp style?

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vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
I will rephrase my question from earlier. When did mass boot camp begin. As in dedicated facilities instead, and a uniform curriculum.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
Regarding montys slowness if you see the pursuit after alamein he pursues with the 8th army in a rapid advance. But the germans get their rearguard on, but they started running and didnt stop til they reached tunisia.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

This stands in direct contrast with the Brits, who have the Churchill (40t, 25km/h) and the Crusader (20t, gofast) in their armoured divisions.

The british did not have churchills in there armoured division. Well not late war anyway. The brits had to type of formations. Armoured brigades and tank brigades. Armoured brigades would have either cromwells or shermans, and would be a component of the armoured division, or independent formations, while the tank brigades would be churchills and in some uses sherman tanks. The tank brigades would normally be supporting infantry divisions, so in that regard operational mobility wouldnt be as important as armour.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
A nuclear submarine is basicly instead of a combustion engine charging batteries, providing power, you have a nuke reactor providing power. If you can build a working nuclear power plant, it would just be a matter of time and effort to build i t small enough for a sub.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
I remember reading a lessons learned type document, where the primary complaint against the sherman was the weak gun. The tankers wanted a gun that could penetrate reliably.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
It also has a flechette round which makes it into a gigantic shotgun.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
Cadre system. You take personnel from an already existing unit and have them as your core personnel, (Sergeants, Officers and specialists.) an fill out the rest of the personnel with recruits. That would give you something like 8-10 months for an infantry battalion, 10-12 for a tank battalion, to get your units into accectable fighting shape. You could probably crash it down to 2 months for an infantry battalion, and 3 for a tank battalion.

No idea about fighter units or ships.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
Are there any mil historians doing research into the current war on terror?

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Tekopo posted:

I've read Battle Cry of Freedom as a pre-amble to reading Shelby Foote and it was decent enough, although it omits quite a considerable amount of detail, which is to be expected for such a relatively small book. It's easy to get into, so much so that I've given it to a friend of mine that doesn't read much ACW as a primer into the war.

Talking about technological advancements and the ACW, ages ago I read the Bloody Crucible of Courage by Nosworthy, which provides a very analytical (almost scientific) approach to writing about the technological and tactical advancements present in the Civil War: I especially found it interesting for its analysis of the relative lack of casualties caused in hand-to-hand and bayonet combat and emphasises the psychological effect of close quarters combat (either the attack stalled during the approach or the defenders fled/surrendered relatively quickly after contact is made). It stands against most views of charges in the Civil War which had long, protracted hand-to-hand fights.

I remember reading about that and the analysis is of wounds treated, in hospitals. A bayonet would probably dead you right there.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
If you look at the nelsons contemporaries, the dunkerque and richelieu class you will see they have two forward turrets with 4 barrels each. So not really a running away ship if thats what youre implying.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

What's the difference between the topographical peak and the military peak of a ridge?


Just wanted to say thanks for this! You're a true asset to the thread.

The topo ridge is the highest point. The military ridge is the highest point where you still have eyes on the bottom of the ridge line. So no one can sneak up on you

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Bacarruda posted:

Psst, amateurs. Just drive around in a desert and cook off your tank's hull.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnaHD2xt5sE

I think that was made up for propaganda. But i remeber heating my mres on the engine block in iraq.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Bacarruda posted:

Aren't some SOF-esque helmets ballistic? There's a bunch of low-profile ballistic helmets on the market now. From time to time, I see photos of SOF guys in Afghanistan wearing them.

I think the gwot made a lot of innovations in regards to mil gear and equipment. And Mogadishu was just after the end of the cold war and subsequent drawdown.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
How where the different armys in ww1 organized? Especially the germans. How was conscription and recruiting handled. I know a bit about the brits with their regimental system and pals battalions and so on, but what about the rest.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
And you can bet your dollar's that the Chinese and ussr are researching ways to jam the gently caress out of drones.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Nenonen posted:

But then one needs to keep in mind that tank warfare, as warfare in general, mostly does not consist of mano a mano duels. When you have tank battalions at play a lot of other things play a much bigger role: numbers, command & control, experience, doctrine etc. Example: many early war tanks had no radios, making platoon level communication nigh impossible during combat. Worse, few early tanks had three man turrets where commanders could focus on their job, or cupolas that gave them a 360º view while buttoned up. Not that such things deliver well onto silver screen, just like movie soldiers really detest wearing helmets and proper uniforms in general because it's against the rules for all heroes to wear the identical costumes and even similar haircuts.

All that are things that helps you mantain situational awareness, that helps you spot the other guys first, and

Rhymenoserous posted:

From my understanding the general rule of Tank Warfare was whoever sees the other guy first generally wins.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Don Gato posted:

Also, planes beat tanks as the Germans found out a lot.

Technically empty fuel tanks beats tanks, cause planes have interdicted your supply lines. Planes really didnt hit tanks that much.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

ArchangeI posted:

That's curious, I've always heard that the 5,56 mm ammo was specifically developed to injure instead of kill (and also be lighter so more rounds could be carried etc.). Something about the old ammo being so slow that it would bleed most of its energy into the body and cause giant wounds that were almost certainly fatal, while the smaller and faster 5,56 would punch straight through the body and do less damage so long as it didn't hit anything absolutely vital. The result being that the enemy's medical services would be overwhelmed by casualties, which reduces morale.

The wound instead of kill gets thrown around a lot especially in regards to 7.62 vs 5.56.
The idea that if you wound an enemy soldier instead of killing him, you take five men out of the fight, be cause you need four to carry him back to medical attention.
Here is why it doesnt really work like that.
1. Nobody in a firefight is going to treat you while the firefight is ongoing anyway.
All modern doctrine dictates that you first begin treating casualties after the firefight is won.
There are 4 kinds of casualties in combat,
the dead right now,
the dead in 10 minutes anyway,
the dead in one hour,
and the never gonna be dead.
The two first are not gonna be saved no matter what you do, the third and fourth category can wait.
2. All military has dedicated personnel two treat the wounded, that are exempt from combat.
Medic are not allowed two contribute in the firefight, so if they have to treat a dude,
they would not be taking any firepower away from the main fight.
3. People who are wounded get better.
If you how many soldier that are wounded get back to the line, that is a not insignificant amount in a long war.
At some point during ww2 it was estimated that 1/4 of all german troops had been wounded one or more times.
If they had been dead instead that is a direct reduction in available manpower.

TLDR: Killing is always better.

The main point for the 5.56 is weight. You can have a lot more ammunition. And in a combat dead or wounded doesnt really matter, a wounded soldier is probably not effective for long anyway.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

JaucheCharly posted:

Medics are armed and they will participate in a firefight. Even our poo poo military has them armed.

So was i when i was a medic. But technically i was only supposed to use my weapon to defend myself, my patient and my medical equipment/installation.
That in recent low intensity conflict with lots of ambushes, yeah the medic are going to use their weapons in defense, but nobody is going to plan to use your medics to kick in the door, or use the medevac chopper to move forward a squad. The assets are allready there and not tasked with other poo poo.

TLDR medics are armed for selfdefense, but not armed to assault a trench.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
German panzer divisions ca 44 had one panzer regiment of two panzer battalions. Some had three panzer battalions. The two panzer regiment division was scrapped in 41

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Tias posted:

Where can I read this? :D

I think I came across him in a comic book where the protagonist meets him, it was possibly Corto Maltese?

I think it is corto maltese in siberia. But im not sure if its supposed to be the real baron he meets or someone based on/inspired by the real baron.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Xotl posted:

The colonials are nowhere near as impressive in the Second World War as they were in the First, oddly enough - something worth a study, I think.

Blaming the British army's problems solely on its leadership is really simplifying the case. Like pretty much every other aspect of their war effort early on, Britain was paying the piper in the desert for a decade of pre-war neglect. They're understaffed, underequipped, and split amongst way too many threatened and potentially threatened fronts. Yes, some of their desert leaders are bad, but some of them are good, too. But early on they lack air superiority, and also have understaffed sigint, mediocre tanks (though it's possible to overstate this: the issues are more with reliability than anything else), an at-times crippling AT-gun shortage, and--what keeps killing them--absolutely wretched all-arms coordination.

Montgomery comes in at the right time to take advantage of enormous improvements throughout the whole army that have been in progress since the war began, combined with a distinct material advantage. In that regard, a lot of his work had already been done for him, not by Wavell and Auchinleck (we tend to get way too big-picture in Desert Campaign discussion and attribute everything to each sides' respective commanders), but by the people who at last managed to get the 6 pounder out in sufficient quantity so that the 25 pounder wasn't forced to switch away from its main role to do a half-assed job at being an AT gun; the people who at last built a large and effective sigint organization that finally handled Ultra and other intel sources rapidly instead of sitting on the info until it was obsolete; the deals that got sufficient Shermans out to the front; the people that established air superiority; those that interpreted and disseminated German doctrine, so that the British better understood what they were up against and how best to counter it, etc. etc.

Montgomery gets a lot of flack, too: his failure to pursue Rommel after 2nd El-Alamein is a constant source of complaints (and to some degree that's fair). But, it's hard to read about a year and a half of Eighth Army's continual failures to win the sort of free-wheeling engagement that the Germans do so well, and then wonder why Montgomery isn't looking to take his tired army on a gently caress-it-and-charge all-out pursuit of the Afrika Korps. You can't know about what happened at Gazala and not be wary of "having the Krauts right where we want them." The Brits had a tightly leashed organization that didn't respond anywhere near as well to battlefield chaos as did the German structures. Their key to victory was making the Germans fight the sort of fixed pounding match that the British have always done so well at. Monty understanding this was significant: knowing your own army's weak spots is an oft-overlooked skill.

Montgomery did pursue the germans, but they where falling back on interior lines of communication, where as montgomery was advancing forward, and didnt want to be without his logistics.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
1. Modern torpedos are guided and will detonate under your keel. This will gently caress you up in a majorly bad way.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

cheerfullydrab posted:

Pretty sure Bornholm got the rape-steal-smash treatment and the people were treated as if they were Germans.

Not really. The soviet troops where confined to quarters the most of the time. There was some disturbances but it was just drunk ivans. Fun fact, there was never any nato troops stationed on Bornholm and the bornholms værn which was responsible for the defense of Bornholm was not under the NATO chain of command.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
It was invaded by the soviets on may the 9th 45. The germans put up a short fight but nothing serious. The war was over and the soviets where probably allready concerned about the optics of the situation.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
The point of air defense is not to kill enemy aircraft but to make it much harder for them to operate.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
Regarding air defense and gw1. What where the comparitive force ratios to a fuld gap situation. The coalition in desert storm where what ca 24 ground divisions supported by ca 2400 planes vs ca the same number of iraqi divisions supported by 500 planes. And the air campaign in desert storm was 6 months. How would that compare to a fulda gap scenario? The warpac had at least parity if not more planes than NATO. And the Warsaw pact would not sit there to be pounded on for months, they would start the ground war asap

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Ensign Expendable posted:

Seconded, Armouredillo owns.

One of the danish company commanders in helmand had the armadillo as his personal symbol. He was commander of an armoured infantry company mounted in m113. In danish the word for armadillo is bæltedyr which means belt animal, and the word for tracked vehicle is bælte køretøj. So when he got killed in the upper helmand valley they named the local fob after him. FOB Armadillo http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1640680/

vuk83 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 28, 2015

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

At the start of WWI it was, but after the entire British army died in Flanders, they caught on quick to the power of automatic weapons. The Lewis gun was the archetypal LMG, and it was adopted in 1916.

LMGs like the Bren weren't really obsoleted like a generation of tanks/planes would be. The difference in rate of fire wasn't as big as it seems, since machine gunners don't usually achieve an effective rof as high as their gun's cyclic rate.

Rather, the problem of the British was that they had 3 different machine gun models for the army: Vickers at company-level, Brens at squad-level, BESAs in vehicles. None of them were bad at what they did (The Vickers was really old though), but an MG34-like weapon could have replaced them all.

Rifle marksmanship (musketry) in the British army was more than just shooting and hitting. After the boer war they emphasised long range area fire. So they were very good at massing a units rifle fire at a specific location.

http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/tcattermole/british-musketry-training-1900-to-1918
See slides 12 to 15 especially for examples of what they were training

This is in contrast to us practice which was purely bullseye target shooting.


Arquinsiel posted:

Wait.

Wasn't the Bradley supposed to replace the M113 already? :psyduck:

It has as an infantry vehicle and as a cavalry vehicle. But not for the million other uses of the M113. Ambulance, mortar carrier, command post vehicle, and so on. There were plans to use the Bradley as a basis for those roles, but they never did cause of expense.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Slavvy posted:

So when did they stop getting used by NATO and the soviets? Mid-50's?

The soviets held on to theres a lot longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprut_anti-tank_gun

Nato replaced there antitank guns with recoilless in the 50s.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Murgos posted:

That's kind of my point. We were previously more tied to supply and industrial capacity than we are now. Unless I read your original post wrong you were arguing the opposite.

I will certainly admit that the complexity of modern systems has lengthened the lead time to replenishment by a huge amount though. Converting a machine shop to pumping out 155mm HE rounds by the tens of thousands is fairly trivial. Standing up a new factory to increase the supply of MLRS rockets and their submunitions on the other hand would be a considerable effort.

I am not really sure that's right. A standard non guided mlrs rocket is not really that complex. And when you begin looking at guided solutions it's actually easier to do in a rocket because of the lower muzzle velocity in a rocket vs a howitzer.

And regarding bang on target. The rocket launcher is better for a lot of bang right now vs a howitzers bang over time. One mlrs can put 12 rockets on a target equivalent to a battalion of 8 inch guns.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012
RE:linechat.
The british manual of arms gave a three man deep formation as the official doctrine. But most of the time british battalions in the peninsula where understrength and they prioritized width.
Re: waterloo the battlefield was not very wide, and the french had more heavy cavalry, so the british deployed four deep so the could form square faster.

One of the major reasons to use a line formation is command and control is a lot easier in a line formation.

One of the things a lot of nations did was use the 3rd line as a tactical reserve. Some armies basicly used the 3rd line as skirmishers, two be put forward in favorable circumstances

vuk83 fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 29, 2016

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vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

MikeCrotch posted:

The whole "French fight in Column, British fight in Line" thing is a myth. There is no evidence that it was ever the intention of French commanders to engage enemy formations while still in column, and the French manual of arms dictated that column would be used to move up to the enemy at which point the infantry would deploy into line. A lot of the reason for the myth is that famous encounters where column met line, such as the Imperial Guard vs the British at Waterloo, happened by accident where the French got surprised before they could deploy properly.

Also wellington was master of the reverse slope defense, so attacking french columns always saw the british lines to late to deploy into line.

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