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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

vintagepurple posted:

And one more, some units had frontage markers and they were a lot closer together than I'd imagine hundreds of men, even in a two-deep line, to be. Did regiments fight with rear lines behind the fighting two or were they packed much tighter than I think?
You don't launch a charge two ranks deep. A charge is about putting maximum dudes in minimum frontage so when you get to the other guys you roll right over them.

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

jng2058 posted:

Off the top of my head, Lieutenant General (CSA) Leonidas Polk, sniped by a cannon.
Artillerists have a long and proud history of blowing up enemy commanders.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Raskolnikov38 posted:

Ah sorry, yeah I was specifically looking for anything by dive bombers since they seem to be the most 'accurate'.
Precision bombing against infrastructure targets was a seriously risky proposition. Dive bombers were in general slow and poor handling compared to fighters and didn't have the range, ceiling or defensive armament of strategic bombers. Attacking targets deep into hostile territory would have severely stretched their range in most cases and would have involved low-level flying into heavy anti-aircraft defenses. Factories and the like also tend to be fairly resilient targets. It takes either a lot of explosives or a direct hit to permanently disable heavy industrial machinery.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

cosmosisjones posted:

Just finished Guns of August today and with hindsight being what it is I just wanted to reach back and shake the poo poo out of some of them. Any other good books on WW1?
I think A History of the World War by Francis A March is a very interesting read. It was published just after the end of the war in 1919 and you can nab the ebook from Project Gutenberg. I got a beat up old copy as a gift and it's a great look into the immediate post-war attitude of America.

Edit: If you can find a physical copy for a reasonable price grab it. The photographs and maps are quite nice.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Cyrano4747 posted:

I also wonder what the down-pressure was. Those tracks look really loving wide, even taking into account just how huge the whole thing is. No numbers or anything, but I'm willing to bet that it applied less pressure per square inch than a Sherman.
Don't forget that it was also 33' long which further helps with ground pressure. Anything that long with that much traction being pushed by 600HP worth of electric motors is going to go over or through just about anything in its way.

Sadly the war didn't work out the way its designers thought and "Big as a house and slightly less mobile" didn't turn out to be the best form factor for armor.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Vegetable posted:

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned how the USSR was able to raise divisions very quickly to replace losses in Barbarossa. My question is: How did they mobilize so quickly and in such numbers? Was it expected by any of the European powers, or even the USSR themselves, that the USSR had such manpower in depth? Because it seems we tend to judge the Nazis as crazy for tangling with the USSR, but surely they wouldn't have invaded if they knew the USSR was so numerous as to be essentially unbeatable.
Remember that 20 years prior they had beaten Russia so hard that the entire country collapsed on itself, and they did it while slowly losing the war to France and Britain in the West. Now it's 1941, Germany has just decisively crushed every enemy in Europe in mere months and is running roughshod over British forces in Africa while Japan goes Super Saiyan on their colonies in the Pacific.

I bet smashing Russia looked totally doable.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

space pope posted:

I read onoodas book a few years ago and if I recall correctly he had his rifle, a few grenades, and some ammunition. Mostly I think his and the other holdouts' priority was subsistence. Some times they would burn rice stores and the police would shoot at them but they weren't setting up ambushes or conducting raids.
Onoda and his three comrades actually did quite a bit of raiding. One surrendered and the two others were killed in shootouts with the police in 1954 and 1972. All told they murdered 30 Filipino civilians before Onoda surrendered.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

JcDent posted:

Hey guys, a Wolfenstein LP thread inspired question: what was the worst tank of WWII to see service?
That's tough to answer. A lot of the inter-war tanks performed extremely poorly. Things like the T-28 and T-35 that were already obsolete by 1940 and built for a very different kind of war. The T-35 especially was huge, slow, unreliable, poorly protected, and undergunned by 1940. The Japanese built some pretty awful tanks, but they worked in their intended application of smashing Chinese forces who had no tanks at all and little anti-armor weaponry. The M3 Lee was by most accounts a colossal shitbox. It was an obsolete design built with substandard methods, but it was only ever intended to be a quick and dirty stopgap. The US cranked out more than 6,000 of the things in 17 months. A number of crazy Nazi supertank projects turned out to be huge white elephants as well. Massive world-beating designs that Germany didn't have the money, materials, tooling, or technical know-how to actually produce in quantity.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

gradenko_2000 posted:

Someone else will have to chime in for a specific make and model, but Italian tanks were riveted together and so could be disabled/destroyed by British hand grenades, if they didn't rattle themselves apart from firing their main gun first.
I totally forgot about Italy. Yeah, just ignore everything I said and pick any Italian tank based on the fact that anything mechanical built by Italians is by its very nature hideously unreliable and extremely flammable.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

INTJ Mastermind posted:

Loving the guy in the back with a sniper rifle.
That's not a rifle.

It's a crossbow!

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Tomn posted:

What exactly would the tactical advantage of the Segway Brigade be compared to just running around?
The primary missions of the Chinese army are forming human walls to prevent protestors from torching government offices and propaganda. Tactical relevance is much less important than looking awesome.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Cyrano4747 posted:

Serious question: how is this better than a actual mule?

Both need fuel, but the mule can scavenge its in many places, and worst comes to worst you can't eat a robot.
You have to feed a mule every day, you only have to feed a robot when you're using it.

Also you can't ship mules 20 to a container. Well, you can, but the results aren't pretty.

Edit: Robots don't wander off, they don't bolt, they don't bite, they don't get sick, nobody has to watch them, and they don't suffer when they get shot.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 7, 2015

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Kaal posted:

You can't expect a mule to follow you into combat, and you can't strap an automatic grenade launcher to a mule and remotely control it. Also DARPA's LS3 can already carry twice the weight limit of a real mule (400 lbs), and has a much smaller logistics requirement.
To expand on logistics:

Animals need to eat constantly. Every single day, whether they do anything or not. Big animals need to eat a lot just to maintain bodymass. A horse needs 15,000 calories a day just to not starve. Double that if you want it to work. Pasture has something like 200 calories per pound. You can do the math yourself there, it's a shitload of grass.

Big animals need a lot of room and a lot of care. They have to be able to exercise and move around or they get sick and die. They need to do this all the time, even when they aren't working. At night they need a covered place to sleep. Someone has to take care of them because they are huge and stupid and get into trouble and get eaten by bears and bit by snakes and people try to steal them. If you want to move them they need specially outfitted trucks, planes or ships to get them around.

On the other hand that robot needs about gallon of gas a day. It only needs the gas if you want it to go somewhere, otherwise it doesn't need anything. It needs someone to look after it a few minutes a day, a major overhaul maybe every month, or whenever it breaks down. When it isn't working, it can be safely locked in a shipping container with 20 of its friends and ignored until its needed. When it needs to be somewhere far away it can be stuffed in any old box and shipped.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Phone posting so I can't quote Cythereal but I really enjoyed The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

PittTheElder posted:

Well drat, I can now definitely understand why a barn owl might signal impending doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDmRmRb2OpE
Not military related, but this video is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkP4Ro2gRl8

Especially the second half from the POV of the prey. Look at how locked on that owl is for the entire attack. Its entire body rotates around its head to the point where it looks almost fake.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

PittTheElder posted:

Is it common for American servicemen to wear their fatigues while on work travel or something?
Depending on the type of travel military members may be required to travel in uniform.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Chamale posted:

What kind of travel would this be? I remember in Canada after the Parliament Hill shooting, soldiers were advised not to wear their uniforms in public.
Oh God that's a question. There are roughly ten million rules about how/when/where/which uniforms are to be worn, every service is different, and a lot of them are at the discretion of the commanding officer. The short answer is that the more "official" the travel is the more likely a uniform will be required. Travel to/from combat zones being the most likely.

Rhymenoserous posted:

Basically the guy in charge of branch x steps out of his porch one morning licks his thumb and sticks it up in the air and goes "Yes... the wind is blowing north west today so therefore soldiers traveling for duty must dress for duty during their travels."

If he's particularly sadistic he'll then amend "In their dress uniforms".
Scarily accurate...

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

I'd like to revive an interesting little side discussion from a few pages back about lost knowledge. My two favorite examples in the military realm are cement and the cure for scurvy.

Around 400 AD the techniques Roman engineers had developed for creating hydraulic cement were lost. For the next 1300 years everyone had to use masonry and mortar that dissolved when it rained if they wanted to build anything big and tough. It wasn't until the 1750's that John Smeaton rediscovered a way to formulate a concrete that would harden underwater and resist the elements.

In 1747 James Lind, in one of the first controlled medical experiments in history, discovered that citrus fruits could cure men who were ill with scurvy and prevented healthy men from contracting the ailment. In 1790 the Royal Navy adopted the idea and lemons became a part of every sailor's ration. By 1911 members of Scott's Antarctic expedition are dropping left and right from scurvy, and nobody knows why. The knowledge had been lost through a series of misunderstandings, bad guesses, and general ignorance of biology and chemistry. In 1907 Axel Holst and Theodor Frølich accidentally rediscovered that citrus cures scurvy in guinea pigs but it wasn't until Albert Szent-Györgyi discovered Vitamin C in 1930 that the cure for scurvy was firmly back in the scientific mainstream.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

Again, nobody understood the process under which their knowledge was founded.
That's sort of the point. In both examples people figured out that something worked, but not why it worked. Because of that when conditions changed it became impossible to reproduce the original results and everybody was hosed. Plus, it's not like Italy circa 1500 didn't have exactly the same sand as Italy circa 150, just nobody passed on the recipe for how to use it to make cement.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Arquinsiel posted:

Most of those are operating on the conceit that the aliens are perfectly logical and don't fight because the outcomes are predictable and fixed, so humans not giving a gently caress and trying anyway is an OCP to them.
I always liked the take that all the other sentient races that survived their first contact with nuclear fission and then FTL did it because they are naturally hyper-averse to intentionally harming other sentients. Alien wars are fought with cultural/diplomatic/economic tactics until humans show up and realize you can just punch these space-monsters in the face and take their stuff. Which completely buttfucks the entire galactic order.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Interesting. My grandpa used to have something like this (but only with a single chamber, not two) and he said he thought it was from the civil war. Were they niche items for weirdo survivalists at that point or something?
Bullet molds were certainly around at the time (and still are). Many people still lived pretty far removed from industry and cast their own ammunition for hunting and/or self defense arms but militaries relied on mass produced ammunition which greatly simplified logistics.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Wasn't it true that Hellenistic combat often came down to phalanx shoving matches?
I think there's some debate about that.

Personally I can't see how the shoving match idea would have worked. It would have made it impossible for the first few ranks to even use their spears. Imagine being chest-to-chest with a guy and trying to stab him with something 2m long. A later Macedonian sarissa could be longer than twenty feet. Unless the enemy was ten ranks deep it'd be tough to stick anybody at all with that thing if the front ranks were mashed together. It also seems to me that if two big walls of armored dudes smashed into each other and started shoving the front ranks would very quickly end up trampled or asphyxiated. It doesn't take very many people pushing in a crowd to crush the people at the front.

If you want to see what a formation specialized for cheek-by-jowl slugging matches looked like take a post-Marian Reforms Roman Legion for example. Tough armor, tall shields, and short, stabbing swords.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 17, 2015

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

WoodrowSkillson posted:

No one in a melee weapon battle would want to be so densely packed they cannot even defend themselves. The phalanx was tightly packed but in an ordered manner, and everyone was covered by a sturdy shield and can duck behind it, jump back at least a little, etc. The Romans did not try and create a crush situation either. It was strictly regimented how much space each legionary had to fight, and the entire point was to allow each man to adequately defend himself. Each man was supposed to have 3 feet between him and the man on either side, and each rank is 6 feet behind the other.
Right. If you want a soldier to get right up to a guy and stab him you don't give him an 8'+ spear. The Roman kit of a big shield, short sword, and a couple of projectiles to fling at the enemy seems like a pretty optimal selection of gear for large-group stabbing.

Edit: If the measurement is essentially from the center of each soldier 3' is actually pretty tightly packed. If you figure the average armored man is probably 20ish inches wide at the shoulder that only leaves about a 16" gap between each man. That seems like enough room to stab or throw but not enough to permit an enemy to move between files. Anyone who's actually tried this kind of thing want to weigh in?

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 18, 2015

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Arquinsiel posted:

I'd be reading it as 3' from my shoulders to yours and WoodrowSkillson's were we in the front rank.
That seems like a lot of distance to cover with a shield. How wide was a Roman scutum anyway? Wikipedia says 16", but some sources say 30" or wider.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 18, 2015

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Ensign Expendable posted:

The Russians have almost a tradition of scuttling vessels in order to block their own harbours. I can't remember why, I'm not a Navy guy, but maybe it's worth sacrificing a few vessels that can be raised and repaired at a later date to save more valuable ones that are inside the harbour or keeping the enemy heavy guns out of range of your port town.
It's to keep the enemy from using your own harbor against you after it's become useless to you. Either because your forces can't contest control of the sea or because they already tried and lost. You block the harbor, spike the guns, and blow the powder magazines in the batteries. Give the enemy a big patch of useless land to garrison instead of a well defended naval base.

Bonus points if it's on some shithole tropical island and half his guys are going to die of yellow fever or malaria trying to fix the damage.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Feb 28, 2015

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

SquadronROE posted:

Except that the Aubrey novels need a dictionary when you read them.
I just sort of gloss over those parts with the knowledge that some nautical poo poo is goin' down the purpose of which is to kill Frenchmen.

It's basically just 19th century technobabble.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

chitoryu12 posted:

In 1848, Robert Minturn of Grinnell, Minturn & Co. (one of the leading trans-Atlantic shipping companies of the 19th century) made a statement before a parliamentary committee that teetotalism is actually encouraged by American shipowners and often a condition for a bonus paid, typically a 10% return on the insurance premium. They made up for it by packing up lots of hot coffee (which is a clean beverage like alcohol, as it was boiled to brew it). Teetotalers have always been prominent in the United States, likely due to this nation's heavy focus on religion and religious morality, hence why we actually suffered from Prohibition.
New England was historically the center of American shipping and also a hotbed for the early temperance movement in the US. IIRC New England shippers were also heavily involved in the coffee and tea trades and significantly less involved transporting rum and whiskey which cam from the Caribbean and American South respectively.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

cheerfullydrab posted:

What was the best destroyer ever built?
Tie between the USN Arleigh Burke class and the JMSDF Kongō class as both have demonstrated the ability to engage targets in space and will be our only hope in an Independence Day scenario.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

TitoLeibowitz posted:

It seems like the advantages of a turret (protection, firing arc) would at least occasionally be outweighed by the cost, space, and machinery necessary to build a rotating gun.
Dreadnaught-type ships weren't significantly more expensive to build than pre-Dreadnaughts. The cost of their more complex turrets was likely offset by having fewer guns in the secondary battery and a simpler armor scheme. Dreadnaughts were also significantly less expensive on a per-gun basis as they brought many more big guns to the fight.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Luigi Thirty posted:

The problem wasn't the cost of the turrets, the problem was that it was too goddamn expensive to replace the entire fleet of pre-dreadnoughts that it just obsoleted in your navy overnight.
Exactly. Dreadnaught was basically pushing the reset button on the naval arms race. Anything pre-Dreadnaught was instantly obsolete. The all-big-gun ship was a revolutionary development on par with steel hulls and steam power.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

FAUXTON posted:

What was their argument? "That was ours when it sank 400 years ago and the state entity which had claim to it has long since disappeared for a variety of reasons and those coins aren't even going to be considered legal tender but since it was us at the time we claim that loot" or more of a national history antiquities thing?
The cargo in question was aboard a Spanish warship sunk in international waters which due to various laws and treaties had sovereign immunity from arrest by US courts.

Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. v. Unidentified Shipwrecked Vessel, 657 F.3d 1159 (11th Cir. 2011) cert. denied, 132 S. Ct. 2379 (2012).
Brief.
Full Text.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

FAUXTON posted:

Also, regarding Spanish loot, good points. I'd just assumed it was a suit to claim the treasure as cultural heritage (I.e. putting it in Spanish museums rather than letting it be hoarded in foreign countries or sold off at Sotheby's) but the state entity thing didn't seem too reasonable since the treasure wasn't some kind of state-tied law or treaty :downs:
The short version as I understand it is that you can't just "finders keepers" stuff under US law. A court has to "arrest" the property and then turn it over to a new owner based on who has the best claim. If it's truly abandoned "I found it and it doesn't belong to anybody" is a pretty good claim on the property. In this case the Spanish didn't make a competing claim, they challenged the right of a US court to arrest a Spanish warship in international waters. The higher courts agreed that due to various laws and treaties granting Spanish warships sovereign immunity the lower court had erred in arresting the property.

IANAL so anyone more familiar feel free to correct that.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Keldoclock posted:

Where do the defenses actually take place?
In the case of the United States: A thousand or more miles out to sea and if that doesn't work the primary ground fighting will be conducted with pointy sticks and shards of melted glass in the post-nuclear hellworld.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

John Wilkes Booth did more to destroy the South with one bullet than William Tecumseh Sherman did with an entire army.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

xthetenth posted:

Middle East mainly IIRC. Israel taking risks with an old ship and getting the Eilat sunk, coming back in the Yom Kippur War with missile boats and a modicum of combined forces and winning handily, and the Tanker War phase of the Iran-Iraq war through US escort ops into Operation Praying Mantis.
India and Pakistan have shot up eachother's ships during their various conflicts. There have also been a number of naval dust-ups between China, Vietnam, Malaysia, The Philippines and Taiwan over the Spratleys and other assorted godforsaken rocks in the Pacific

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Frostwerks posted:

Wasn't there a battle in the (now) American Southwest between some native tribe and either Spanish or Mexican (cannot remember the era) involving a siege of like a fortified mesa or something that was only cracked when they brought cannon in? I think it's a current reservation but I cannot for the life of me remember the name.
The Acoma Massacre?

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Throatwarbler posted:

I thought Mount and Blade was really fun from a gameplay perspective but I could never complete any of the quests because every character and location has a Polish name that is 1000 characters long with no vowels and I can't keep straight who I am supposed to kill/marry or where. :saddowns:
It has quests?

I would just sort of ride around being a bandit until some noble insulted me and then crush him, burn his towns, and scatter his armies to the wind.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

cheerfullydrab posted:

All these, including, the joke I posted, could be done with either the pocket knife or the dagger, both also specified. I just can't understand what you need with a weird in-between knife, something with a little handle and a big blade, that it's so very necessary for everybody that it's specified in the basic rules that govern your awful knightly order.
Well "canivet" translates to something close to "little knife." My guess is it was something akin to a pen knife. A small blade for precision work too delicate for the larger pocket knife. I imagine one could find all manner of uses for a small, sharp blade.

e;fb.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

HEY GAL posted:

That doesn't explain the holes though:

Different paths on their way out of him?
Almost certainly. Loading three balls into a smooth bore pistol isn't exactly a recipe for accuracy but it sounds like a drat good way to make sure whoever you shoot from point blank range dies.

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Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

golden bubble posted:

Getting back on topic, I know that modern car factories can't easily convert to tank factories like in WWII. But what would a war economy look like today if two major powers got into a prolonged, conventional conflict? IE, how would a Call of Duty economy function?
A prolonged conventional conflict between major powers really isn't a thing any more. Like Chamale said, we should start by assuming the US isn't involved because that throws any concept of parity right out the window. So let's assume two hypothetical nations with NATO-equivalent militaries. The conflict would come down to who has jets still flying at the end of the first week. Air superiority means your enemy has to go everywhere under cover of his SAM systems and anything that isn't protected dies almost immediately. Unless both hypothetical combatants have a ludicrous number of advanced SAMs this means that whoever has air superiority gets to bomb the other guy pretty much at will. For a picture of what that means if things get real nasty, imagine a bombing campaign ala WW2 conducted with modern weapons against civilian targets. It'd make what happened to Dresden and Tokyo look tame in comparison.

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