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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Ilyich posted:

From the BG:EE thread, if I had to make a guess, I'd say that completely clearing the area of basilisks and every other hostile would give between 28k-35k exp, putting you well on the way to level 6, assuming you're soloing and depending on the number of greater basilisks. I think there at least 3 of those in the area.

I don't care for solo runs, but I had never thought of this before and next time I do BG1 I am absolutely doing this.

Wait, duh... apart from maybe Imoen (who annoys me), I can just do this bit and when I find new companions they'll have caught me up in level. Evil genius. :devil:

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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Devil Wears Wings posted:

Yeah, just use a single-class Druid (or maybe a Fighter1/Druid to get all weapon and armor proficiencies). Frost Fingers and Beast Claws rule the early game (actually Frost Fingers rules in general), and you get some pretty powerful damage spells later on.

I'm at the office so I can't check, but there is some mod pack for IWD2 that adds a bunch of very sensible nature-related spells, mostly nukes, to druids. It also adds in some shapechanges that I'm more dubious about, but it really makes druids into a very good hybrid caster that's part cleric, part wizard.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Stumiester posted:

Re: the Druid mod, I went to http://weidu.org/iwd2.html and installed the ease of use and bg2 merchant (onto the GOG version, and of course with the widescreen mod).

I used:
Bugfixes
Infinite Stacking
Non-Combat War Chant of the Sith
Improved Holy Avenger
Deep Gnome Starting XP
Improved Moonblades
Improved Monk Fists
Collector's Edition Bonus Items
Magic Weapon Finesse
Always Get Some XP Per Kill
Include Forgotten Armor and Shields
Additional Druid Spells
Alternate Shapeshifting
Skip Battle Square

This was the one, thanks.

MegaGatts posted:

Haha, who thought druids in IWD2 needed a buff?

Well, they can't be in animal form and caster form at the same time, I guess? I played with this mod and I have to admit that it didn't seem to break things that badly, but I tend to play druids as casters and very little as melee beasts because they tend to have such mediocre AC that they get pummeled in any direct fight.

It's really a shame, I feel... vanilla bards and druids are rubbish in Baldur's Gate, but in Icewind Dale (especially 2, for druids), they are almost indispensable. I really like how bards with good int can replace rogues in IWD2 - I wish that I could get away without a rogue in IWD1. I would have one if party size was 7/8, but I always want to have 2 tanks, 1 pure arcane caster, 1 bard, cleric and druid. I like to play with all of the toys.

I think that there is a component for the above mod, that's not listed, where heavy armour gives damage resistance. It's basically optimal in IWD2 for someone to wear light armour with a high dex, and having plate mail and such absorb some damage really balances the field. That way, rogues/bards/monks get hit somewhat less but take more damage per, while clerics/tanks in heavy kit get hit more often but take less damage. I really liked that.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Captain Oblivious posted:

Is the BG2 Tweakpack currently working with BG2EE? Because gently caress rolling for HP.

You could set the in-game difficulty slider for that in BG1EE - did they drop that in 2? If so, that's a dick move with jam on top.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

kingcom posted:

Just to confirm the canonical party is CharName, Imoen, Jahiera, Khalid, Minsc and Dynaheir right? That should be reasonable to go with as Jahiera can mostly cover the cleric bases for BG1 anyway. TotSC demon boss of bullshit may be tough but otherwise your fine.

I guess that you can get by without a cleric, but to be fair that's because most people rest a lot. I am very... realistic with my resting, for lack of a better term, and I had Jaheira and Branwen/Viconia virtually the whole game when I went through BG1EE a few months ago because I never would have made it without them. It does get tiresome, though, having to load up mostly healing spells. Adding spontaneous healing and energy channeling to 3rd edition and beyond was the best idea ever.

Admittedly, one problem with healing is that they make even low-level healing spells touch range and slow to cast. Plus, CLW becomes obsolete by mid-game in BG1. I suppose that one could make the case that potions are for battle healing, but I still feel that it undermines the cleric's role an awful lot.

Having said all that, talking about the stupid, unbalanced, and just plain facepalm-inducing aspects of 2nd edition D&D rules could keep us here until the end of time and then some.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
When I mentioned resting "realistically" a page back or so, I didn't quite mean going back to the entrance, I just don't spam the rest button after every fight. For example, in the overworld I would only rest my characters when they were fatigued, which is fairly often as changing maps can take days of in-game time. In dungeons, I just tried to make it make some sense. A party of characters that just spent half a day slaughtering kobolds shouldn't be able to rest peacefully for 8+ hours just because more of the scaly fucks aren't within the game's visual range of 100 metres. I'm probably biased, but when I was still playing table-top 2nd edition I had a great DM who really made that horrid game good, and one of his things was that using resources properly was a big deal, peaceful rest was never guaranteed, and a good adversary never lets you catch your breath. I still remember a particularly intense running battle through half of Myth Drannor that lasted days in-game, and every HP lost was a huge deal to us. Yes, believe it or not, we actually had fun in the Forgotten Realms.

Speaking of FR, Salvatore isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be, it's just cool to slag him off. It's the old "he's popular, therefore he sucks" phenomenon. I wouldn't say I like him as much as Cunningham, Denning or Feist (I don't read as much sword & sorcery as I used to) and I freely admit that the Transitions trilogy was a steaming pile of shite due to the horrid changeover to 4th edition. However, Servant of the Shard was one of the best light fiction novels I have ever read... which may or may not be due to the fact that his main protagonists don't actually appear in the book.

Edit: I will confess with slight shame that I am terrible about hoarding resources. Healing potions not so much, but wands, other potions, and charged items I never want to use. It's the old "But I might need it later!" syndrome.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Rascyc posted:

The downside to either option in BG2 is that there already exists NPCs for both classes. For Inquisitor that's Keldorn. You have to be kind of dick to keep Keldorn around though from what I remember of his quest line though. There's also a Fighter/Cleric in the form of Anomen who is also serviceable, but I find him extraordinarily annoying to keep around cause he's such a loving drama queen.

I'm in the minority here, but I really like the interplay between Keldorn/Anomen if they're in the party together. My preferred BG2 party (I like a bit of everything in my groups) with, say, a Blade PC is Blade/Jaheira/Anomen/Keldorn/Jan/Edwin. While the triggers are utterly hosed, the Jaheira romance is pretty deep and relatively well done - it's definitely the best of the three male PC romances. Viconia's is too... carnal? for lack of a better term (though with a touching denouement) and Aerie just makes me want to punch everything in the world at the same time.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Captain Oblivious posted:

Believe it or not, the Enhanced Edition managed to successfully unfuck the Jaheira Romance. I'm still in shock at seeing this romance play out without me needing to CLUAConsole poo poo.

I thought that I had heard that mentioned somewhere else - thanks for confirming it. That romance was artistically respectable but functionally retarded.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Rascyc posted:

base AC back to 20

Don't you mean 10?

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
My 2nd ed group was always disproportionately proud of this, but to be fair we were pretty literally ahead of our time. If you want to make 1st-level D&D less horrid, just take a clue from 4th edition and give each character at level 1 one hit die roll plus their con score, then carry on from there. It doesn't horribly unbalance the game late, doesn't totally ruin tension, but it makes it so that your formerly 6 HP mage won't die from a stray air molecule. We did that before 3rd edition even came out (when a level 1 mage was lucky to have 10 con even) and we never regretted it.

Barring that, just start at second level. 12 HP on a mage is miles ahead of 6.

Edit: In summary, 2nd edition D&D is bollocks and you should never feel bad about making it less so.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
Something that I've never heard mentioned explicitly is that the 2nd level cleric/druid spell Slow Poison basically works like the level 4 spell Neutralise Poison, in that it just gets rid of poison. By the rules it's supposed to make it not kick in for some hours, but in this game it just makes it go away. That's a huge deal, given the lethality of poison and how long it takes to get level 4 priestly spells. Plus, Cure Serious Wounds is a precious healing tool and 4th-level spell slots are a bit hard to come by.

Maybe it does delay the poison, but the poison runs out before the spell ends, so it effectively cures poison in a roundabout way. Either way, I'm thrilled - not having a poison cure until mid levels was horrible.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Rascyc posted:

Slow poison just cures poison in BG. Neutralize poison cures pretty much any "physical" related ailment like disease, poison, blindness, deafness, and I think maybe even silence? It also recovers a little bit of HP.

The big thing to remember about slow and neutralize poison is that they're near instant cast. The "cure" spells are infamous for being kind of slow casts so you get interrupted while healing on the front line or people just die before they actually get off. I hardly ever use them in battle.

Good point - I'd forgotten that Neutralise Poison can cure disease.

Nightblade posted:

Hah, I've never actually played DnD, so I've always wondered what the point of neutralize poison was when you already had slow poison doing what it does.

Well, in Pen & Paper 2nd ed Slow Poison did exactly that - it made a poison stop functioning and not set in for 8 hours or some such. Dubious usefulness, because one was relatively unlikely to find a cure in that time period. Also, there were no small number of instant-acting poisons and the only thing that one could do for those was hope to not fail the saving throw. In computer BG, all poisons (that I know of) do damager over time, so a quick-casting low-level universal priestly poison cure is a godsend (pun very much intended) and drat near necessary.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

DeathChicken posted:

Dyahaha, that polar bear the guy sends you across the bridge to kill is actually kind of mean. Doubly so if you Charm Animal it and send it after the Gibberling horde up north.

I had Jaheira charm the bear with her ring of animal control and used him to attack the nobleman. I found out hilarious, but I ended up taking a huge rep hit.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

TjyvTompa posted:

Regarding mages in BG1, I dual classed Imoen to a Mage at level 6 and she ended the game as a level 6 Thief, Level 9 mage. Together with Dynaheir this made the game super easy. My other members were Minsc, Jaheria, Garrick and my pure fighter PC. I did play on the "regular" difficulty though.

I don't remember the original BG1 well enough to say, but I played through BG1EE recently (before that last great patch, ironically - had a few quests that didn't go off) and I was kind of irked with the difficulty level selection. The 2nd-lowest level had the "quality of life" improvements that I wanted, where every character got max HP per level and spells scribe with 0% of failure, but enemies also do reduced damage, which I did not want. The next step up gives full damage, but it removes those aforementioned aspects that make 2nd edition so irritating. Some might say "well, change the slider down when you want to scribe a spell/level up", but I think that they prepared for that, because I would still get random hit points at leveling up if I turned down the difficulty slider after getting the little + sign in the character portrait. I guess that the game calculates HP gains before you hit level up, and that screen is just reporting it to you.

Not sure why they couldn't have just made it so that you could set a bunch of individual options for difficulty, but I could say "not sure why" about an awful lot of things in terms of these games.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

MrTheDevious posted:

Seriously just use the Tweakpack. You can pick and choose only the mods you want and there's a TON of quality of life changes in there. I set max hp on levelup and no spell memorization failures ASAP and never looked back. There's a lot of other just-not-fun things you can change with it too.

Did they make anything out there for BG1 and/or 2 to make druids better or maybe add some bard songs? Druids in the Icewind Dale games are beasts, but there's a fixpack that gives them even more spell options. Jaheira is vicious in BG2, but it's the combination of a few druid spells and her warrior skills that do it. Pure-class druids in BG properly get it in the shorts. Making them more casterish with a good amount of pure attack spells with a nature theme (lightning bolt, etc) would be a real boon.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Dirty Job posted:

I started playing Icewind Dale 2 and holy poo poo this is a lot of game. I'm on chapter 2 in the ice castle and I've been playing for maybe 20 hours only to discover that I'm not even half way through the game yet.

My party is pretty boss though. Fighter/Barbarian Shield Dwarf, Cleric of Tempus Shield Dwarf, Cleric of Selune Aasimar, Rogue/Wizard Dark Elf, Conjurer Tiefling, Enchanter Human. It takes a while to level up, but my stats are insane for the most part and a lot of fights become trivial after summoning 3-4 monsters/taking control of enemies/sniping from stealth/rampaging with a barbarian that has somewhere around 150 health. The only thing I'm regretting is going wizard with my Dark Elf, but he's doing fine as a sniper and he's the only one who can cast evocation spells, so eventually he'll be throwing fireballs and lightning bolts all over the place.

Your lack of druid and/or bard pains me. Those 2 classes are so good in the IWD games, and after their stunning mediocrity (vanilla) in Baldur's Gate, they well deserved it.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Vigilance posted:

Drow and other +ECL races can be nice to have in your party in IWD2 simply because IWD2 calculates XP gains for your party based on your total party level and it uses actual character level not effective character level. What that means is a party with a Drow in it will gain more xp than a party without one as the Drow party will have a lower party level than the other one.

What that can mean is your non ECL characters can level pretty fast thanks to the increased xp gain. I suppose it may balance out at some point and I've never sperged enough to know when or if that would be but early on that improved xp gain is nice.

Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for posting it. I'm a big fan of the underdark races and aasimars, so this is a big deal to me. However, I recently found a mod that removes ECL from the game entirely. Assuming that it's compatible with the IWD2 Tweak Pack, I plan to use it my next run through.

Selane posted:

Haha, that pretty much mirrors my experience exactly. I just finished the Ice Fortress and glanced at a walkthrough table of contents basically and saw that there's like 700 areas after this. This game is pretty insane, I love how almost every fight is vs like 10+ enemies and a lot are way more than that. I mean, at the end of the Goblin Fortress thing I'm pretty sure there were like 30 enemies onscreen at once.

And yeah, it's nice how every class is useful. I wouldn't be caught dead using them in BG2 but things like single class Cleric/Druid/Rogue are actually good in this game. Though my Rogue actually started out with one level in Fighter(mainly to get all the martial weapon feats for free).

One thing I like is that bards, while being generally brilliant, can fill in for your rogue in IWD2. I don't care much for rogues for reasons I can't entirely pin down, but I just don't and I like that my bard can admirably take over the role of trap finder and lock picker. In Icewind Dale 1, you basically have to have a rogue. Now, IWD1 uses 2nd edition rules (sigh) but one of the few upsides to 2nd edition rules is that muticlass rogues work quite well. Still, I'd rather not have one. Single-class bards are really groovy in IWD1 as well after being phenomenally not groovy in the BG games (the kits are nice, granted). Having both feels redundant, but you really can't get away with not having a rogue of some sort in IWD1 while bards are too good to refuse. It's kind of a pain.

Devorum posted:

I've discovered that not only is Mazzy, who I have never used over at least 6-7 playthroughs in the last decade, a Great Character, but that a party with her, Keldorn, Jaheira, Jan, and Neera has amazing banter. I've since traded Jan for Imoen, and I'm really missing his banter. But...I didn't want to have him stranded in the Asylum. I might pick him back up when I get back to the surface...I know Imoen is my sister and all, but she is really very bland.

VVVVVV I have a love/hate relationship with Dragon's Eye. I think it is a wonderfully designed area, but not being able to rest makes it quite a challenge which can become frustrating on higher difficulty levels. That said, it really makes you think about conserving your resources, rather going with the "2 hour workday" method. I'm already planning another IWD playthrough when I'm done with BG2.

Dragon's Eye is... something, that's for bloody certain. I've tried to play Heart of Fury mode in IWD2 and it's hard to the point of being stupid and unfun. AC means nothing and goblins hit for 30 damage a pop and never miss, things like that. It reminds me a lot of Throne of Bhaal where one has no choice but to abuse certain buffs because having a -14 AC and being encased in the +8 Full Plate of gently caress Everyone means bugger all when yard trash has a -10 Thac0. The Tweak Pack for IWD2 has a component, which I find very sensible for balance, where heavy armour actually absorbs some damage. In the base game, it's patently superior to have someone with light/medium armour and a really high dex regardless of the situation. With this mod, it's more balanced and intuitive... lower-dex tanks in heavy plate get hit more often but take less damage per, while lighter classes get hit less but suffer more damager per hit. It makes it so that you can make a paladin or a warrior, who is going to be in a full metal tuxedo the whole game, without having to spend precious attribute points in dexterity to make him viable.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Factor_VIII posted:

I did like the fact that his personal quest didn't end in a sugary sweet manner

Um, do you have any experience with, say, the Viconia romance? That hardly ends in a sugary-sweet manner.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Basic Chunnel posted:

It's the gameplay that doesn't hold up

You are as entitled to your opinion as much as myself or anyone, but I'd call this complete bollocks. Granted, 2nd edition rules have been a pisser since, well, 2nd edition first came out, but I think that you're in the minority there. I agree fully about the graphics - not trying to have full 3d up the arse in an industry obsessed nowadays with being flashy saves a ton of money and ages spectacularly well. However, this game plays very well. There is tons of diversity in class and tactics as well as a genuine need to have a bit of everything most times, serious tactical elements, and the ability to pause instantly at any time makes the chaos controllable. No game becomes definitive of its genre and is remade and replayed over a decade later unless it is truly sublime.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Stumiester posted:

Speaking as someone playing a Berserker/Druid, even without using Scimitars (used Spears/Quarterstaffs instead) or levelling up quickly (used Druid levels=Cleric levels from the tweak pack), my PC is still absurdly strong and probably the best PC I've used (previous PCs included Monk, Cleric of Lathander, Barbarian and Cavalier). With the Impaler, a weapon I've never used before, and spear grandmastery, he gets d6+13 damage with 4 attacks/round, plus ironskins/armour of faith, plus insects/nature's beauty plus heals.

At the end of the day, something like a Kensai/Mage is probably better in terms of pure damage/buffs, but using the shadow dragon armour plus helm of defence etc. makes the B/C pretty drat hard to hit even when his buffs get taken down.

P.S., making Viconia into a fighter/cleric multi and hexxat into a thief/mage multi means I can have a very strong and diverse party with just my PC/Viccy/the new NPCs. Also lets me use viconia finally, which I'm happy about.

Meh, I kind of liked that Viconia wasn't very strong and didn't have a high con... it made her into a good pure caster cleric and she was a pretty good slinger with her high dex. Mind you, clerics get good HP no matter what, but I felt that it set her apart from other more "tanky" clerics. Mind you, I'd like her a drat site more if pure clerics could get more attacks like in 3rd edition+ and could use crossbows.

"No piercing/slashing weapons" my hairy arse... is there a mod for that? Every time I play the BG games the only person I ever have using crossbows is good old mental Jan, for obvious reasons.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

amanasleep posted:

Another powergaming aspect to Druids that people miss is that High Level abilities start accruing for all classes at 3 million XP, rather than at a particular level. And Druids have the fastest initial level progression after 3 million xp of any class by a wide margin. The first 7 levels (and thus the first 7 HLAs) accrue in just 900k xp for druids. Most other classes get only 4 levels during that stretch. An since Druids jump to 6 spells per day for all levels including spell level 7 at level 15 they get more use out of their HLA spells than any other class.

Captain Oblivious posted:

On the other hand, Druids don't care about HLAs after the first two. :shobon:

And that, messieurs, is called game balance!

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Excelzior posted:

I like Viconia for being the only cleric in this game that isn't excruciatingly annoying.

I guess Branwen isn't bad, if bland. Too bad she's not in vanilla BG2.

Rascyc posted:

Yeah, Anomen supremacy!

Branwen was my "tank" cleric in BG1, though she isn't really that heavy, she just has a slightly better STR and a much better con than Viconia, but not nearly the dex so I'm not sure how much it matters in the long run. In my recent BG1EE run I had the Gauntlets on Vic and the "cursed" belt on Jaheira until my blade got up a few levels, then I swapped. It was a tough choice... my blade was a much better ranged attacker than her, but he was tougher in melee as well so there was nobody who was clearly better in every respect. I used the tweak that puts Viconia's wisdom back to 18, though, so it seemed smarter to make her a caster on the back line with Coran the archer and Baeloth, with my blade, Dorn and Jaheira taking the hits. Once I got the Str tome and my blade went from 18 to 19 Str, it was kind of a no-brainer.

Anomen, well, yeah, he's built by the game very similarly to how a human player would build a dual-class fighter-cleric as a main PC... minus the ridiculous stats that were the result of 20 minutes and about 800 rerolls.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
I forgot about Yeslick. I actually really like him, but during that run I was all about single-class clerics as my party had plenty of melee fighters and having two classes slows down spell progression. That's why I like Anomen in BG2 even though he starts as a prat and can remain so forever depending on how things play out - he has a good number of fighter levels to make him a better fighter, can benefit from more proficiency pips, and after that he just matures as a cleric getting more and better spells at a steady rate and good HLAs

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

oswald ownenstein posted:

I think by far the best thing about BG2 is that you start fighting cool monsters - Beholders, Illithids, Drow, Dragons, etc.

Baldurs Gate may as well be called: The Great Bandit Quest (with Spiders too!).

Ankhegs were the Dragons of that game. :colbert:

I remember as a lad being horrified by the fact that if an ankheg spit at someone at range and you moved that character, the acid spit would follow that character. I didn't seem to make the link that it was an RPG determined by random numbers and not a shooter determined by virtual physics.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

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THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

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oswald ownenstein posted:

Dorn is such a badass. Of all the new NPCs I think he is the most seamlessly integrated into the game and his VA work is just as top-notch as the original.

I badly wish that they had gotten Michael Dorn to do his voice, for oh so many reasons.

JustJeff88
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Dillbag posted:

Doesn't Michael Dorn already show up in a couple dream sequences as Bhaal?

Aaaaand just before I hit post I realized what the joke was... Duh...

:ughh:

I actually wasn't taking the mickey, and I actually didn't know that Michael Dorn does other voices in the game. He just has a deep badass voice (which was an affectation for Worf, I know) and the name matches the character, so I thought that that would be a fit. I'm sure that he doesn't work cheaply, though.

JustJeff88
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SheepNameKiller posted:

I get this but IWD feels really dated compared to IWD2 and I haven't replayed it in a long time for that reason. Personally, I'd be really unlikely to buy an EE for it. IWD2:EE I'd be all over.

I honestly don't feel like IWD2 *needs* an Enhanced Edition, mostly because 3rd edition rules aren't nearly as retarded as 2nd.

My problem with IWD, as odd as this may sound, is that the game making classes better makes it hard to make a good party. In IWD2 you can get by quite well without a rogue as a bard with good INT can fill in quite well, but in IWD1 you really need at least a multi-class rogue because, just as in BG2, single-class rogues are shite. Druids and bards are so much better that you wouldn't want to not have one of each, but you also need two good tanks since priests in 2nd edition are crap in melee with their 1 APR. Plus, you need a cleric and a pure mage of some sort...

All of the talk in this thread has made me want to pick back up IWD, but I literally cannot settle on a 6-person party.

JustJeff88
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Sloober posted:

I don't typically take any straight fighters but that's mostly because they're sort of boring. You don't get to do much with them beyond sic them on the nearest/most threatening target.

Thank you for saying that - same here. At least paladins get some spells to cast and buttons to press, but fighters just walk up to things and hit them with weapons or possibly stand back and hit them with ranged weapons. I have this problem in a lot of games, and oftentimes taking the pure warrior-type is desirable from a power-gaming perspective, but most of the time I'd rather have a class that's fun to play and suffer a bit.

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Invis posted:

So, I've been planning on getting BG2 EE during this steam sale, hopefully it gets a daily deal.

Same here. I'm genuinely surprised that it went on special at all, but in the rather silly nature of these sales we have to wait until a moment of weakness and pounce, or something like that. I bet that Steam does a lot of sales on the last day when people realise that Game X that they've been watching for weeks isn't going to get any cheaper and they finally break down and buy the bloody thing.

JustJeff88
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Sleep of Bronze posted:

Oh, yeah, I totally agree it's bullshit. Like I said, I don't know anyone who didn't houserule all this crap in some way and I most definitely did. The thing is that seeing all that at least told novice DM me that I needed to keep a drat good eye on Haste and its ilk because the designers had attached all these riders to them which made them so chancy to cast.

Fantasy simulationist me, whom 2E catered to especially well, also likes the idea that you have to deal with premature aging and other penalties for making your body act so much faster than it's meant to. Cloudy with a chance of death makes it unfun, but if I'm DMing I'll always ask my group about having our houserules keep some negative repercussions still stapled to the spell.

My group made huge use of house rules as we were most active during 2nd edition (and totally aware of how retarded it was at all times), and we were rather proud that several of our house rules ended up being adopted in 3rd edition and beyond. We didn't submit suggestions to WotC or anything, just coincidence. Among those "innovations" were adding a character's CON score to his HP at first level, making fighters proficient with all common weapons to start at level 1, making trivial spells usable at-will for higher level casters, etc.

I think that for Haste we removed the aging requirement and made it so that after the combat adrenaline wore off a character would be pretty badly fatigued for a while. Worked well enough as I remember it.

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Factor_VIII posted:

3E did have some spells cost XP or have expensive material components (the latter was admittedly also present in 2E) as a way or regulating their use. XP might not be so good in my opinion since the whole party or other PCs might benefit from a spell so it's unfair to burden the caster (e.g. it's unfair for a Wizard to lag behind the party in levels if he uses Wishes to raise the Fighter's strength). I think that the Pathinder approach of simply having some spells cost money is a good mechanism. The GM can control the money a party gets and the players can share the costs and decide on whether to spend money on spells or on gear.

The idea of casting haste to sickly enemy wizards occurred to me as well. Sort of fits in with the discussion earlier in this thread of casting Strength on Fire Giants to weaken them. :)

I would always be concerned about regulating the raising of stats, though. 3rd ed isn't as pissy about it as 2nd was, but raising stats to superhuman levels can really shatter a game system that's already kind of broken. I'd be really worried about some group having a Monty Haul campaign and spending all of their funds on making the barbarian as strong enough to bench-press an entire fleet of warships.

JustJeff88
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caleramaen posted:

Ranger/Clerics are fun, as they are essentially Ranger/Druid/Clerics.

About R/C's... I've never played one but always liked the idea because I like having access to all of the priestly spells, and I normally play with one cleric in my party and one druid. The problem with that approach is that 1) Single-class druids are shite in the (unmodded) BG games and 2) The only other option, Jaheira, gets tiresome at times.

People talk about getting all of the druid/cleric spells in one character, but how does the game calculate spell slots when the R/C gets to a higher level? For example, say that the PC is a level 13/14 ranger/cleric late on in Shadows of Amn. If Rangers get, say, 3 1st level spells at that level and clerics get 6, plus the PC has 19 wisdom with a little help from tomes and gets the 3 bonus first level spells, does all of that add up to give the R/C 12 1st-level spells lots, or do the cleric ones overwrite the ranger ones and he gets 9 (6 cleric + 3 bonus)?

R/C is the only class multiclass combination I can think of where you earn the same kind of spells (arcane/divine) from two classes simultaneously, so I'm interested in how that works.

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Skwirl posted:

As was mentioned, he was talking about BG1, the base game features exactly 2 pieces of ac0 armor, nothing that grants extra attacks, and (I think) no strength enhancing equipment beyond scrolls for the spell Strength"

There are the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which were in BG1 Vanilla, but those do come no sooner than Chapter 5, which mitigates their power a little bit. Plus, it's entirely possible for a PC to start with 18/00 strength.

Hughlander posted:

Big fisted belt, Cursed belt of hill giant strength (sets strength to 19 but int to 6) - Cloudpeaks temple (part of Rasaads quest) inside a locked chest in acolytes quarters. That is worthwhile on any pure melee. I give to Kagain usually.

Also this in BG1EE only.

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Adam Bowen posted:

Yeah, bittersweet is basically the essence of romantic love, any love story that doesn't convey that is shallow and childish if you ask me. Considering the way PS:T ends, I don't see how anyone could possibly expect a traditional happy ending for any of the romances. I've only finished it once, but I remember Fall-From-Grace saying something about how she'll find The Nameless One, no matter how long it takes and that seems like a relatively happy/romantic ending to me.

That's both rather beautiful in a dark way, but I'm not sure how it could work anyway. Her kiss is deadly (she has no control over this as far as I know) and he can't die, but after certain possible endgame outcomes (I won't spoil it) he is presumably mortal again. Bit of a head scratcher, that.

JustJeff88
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What are the mods out there that let you send all non-active NPC's to the same spot? I know there's one for Trilogy because it's being used right now in a Big World Project LP, but I wasn't sure A) what it was (maybe a component of something else) and B) if it was updated for either or both of the Enhanced Editions.

I finished BG1EE some months ago (ironically ended just before that last superpatch that fixed a bunch of things) and am going to carry on into BG2EE once they work out some of the kinks. I don't think that I'll carry any of the new NPC's through the entire game - just thinking about Hexxat makes me mildly nauseous - but I will probably do all of the character-specific content and having a central recruitment area of some sort for party members is a bit convenience.

JustJeff88
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Ilyich posted:

As far as I know, the only mod that allows you to send NPCs to inns compatible with BG1 EE at the moment is SCS. That mod also contains a component that allows NPC pairs to separate. You wouldn't need to install the difficulty increasing components either, just the initialise component (the first thing you're asked to install) and the NPC components. You can skip literally everything else.

Thanks, that's great. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to play BG2EE it will be updated for that as well.

JustJeff88
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caleramaen posted:

It's not necessary in BG2. NPC's go back to set locations in that game, and there are no pairs.

I know this, but I find it convenient that everyone goes back to the same place. I'm a completionist sort and I like doing everyone's individual content, though I have my favourite NPCs like anyone else. I generally make a sort of house rule where any character that joins my party at any time has the exact same number of exp as the main, so everyone keeps up without passing "me" by. I wish that someone would make a mod for that.

gender illusionist posted:

Full stops are not a substitute for commas and semicolons.

Genuinely laughed out loud at this

JustJeff88
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Factor_VIII posted:

Select the NPC, type CLUAConsole:SetCurrentXP(number)

Totally forgot about that because I never use the console and stick to WhateverKeeper. Thanks.

homeless poster posted:

I guess you weren't aware that BG2/EE was programmed on the Infinity Engine. :rimshot:

:golfclap:

(I actually laughed quite a bit at this and I hate you for it)

JustJeff88
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bathroom sounds posted:

Tales of the Sword Coast Talk: It took a few hours and a few thousand gold in potions, but I finally killed Aec'Letec. I like how the aftermath reads like the devs got sick of working on Sword Coast and just ended it. No rewards or reputation bump, and the "Hey we won" convo with the dwarf is maybe one line.

I now have a party of Level 7s twinked out in Durlag's Tower gear and about 60k gold after pissing money away on potions and an archmage robe for Neera, and I'm only just entering Baldur's Gate. I wish I paid closer attention to the utility of potions before going through Durlag, though, since the place is filled to the brim with them. I had been steamrolling through everything up to the end of Durlag and then Aec'Letec, so I stopped picking up potions. That and I lost a party member to a basilisk and inventory space was at a premium.

I never got to finish Tales as a lad, when BG1 was on 18 CD's or whatever it was, due to a crash I was never able to fix and just did the whole of it recently. I liked that whole cult plotline and the fight was a good challenge without being infuriating, but the dénouement really did feel anticlimactic when all you do is talk to dagger-dwarf and he's sort of "Well, yeah, that's what I thought. Ciao"

I had evil mages the whole trip through BG (Edwin, then Baeloth) and I had to wait to get the proper Robe until the end of Ch 4 off of Davaeorn, but it was free! Saved me a lot of dosh.

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JustJeff88
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Nation posted:

Can someone evaluate my party in IWD2 before i start pretty please? I never played it and the first post says you can make a party that cannot win. Also dual/multi classing is all messed up and I have no idea what i'm doing.

Current: Barb / Fighter /Wizard /Druid / Rogue

Mostly evil and orc, drow, half breed scum - the first chat told me to get back on the boat.

e: Thanks goon sir

Firstly, I'd grab a fun cleric like Talos (tons of lightning nukes if you don't mind an evil in your group) or Lathander (good alignment and tons of bonus heals/fire nukes) - being able to spontaneously heal is really handy and druids can't do that. Also, I'd swap the rogue for a bard... you can't really get away without one in BG1&2 and IWD1, but you can comfortably do without in IWD2 and bards have great songs, extra spells (wizard buffs/charms/illusions & a few cleric heals), and decent fighting capabilities while still having access to rogue skills and getting a generous number of skill points.

I'd also only go to level 4 with your fighter for weapon specialisation and then go paladin foreverafter, but I don't much care for pure melee classes, so I'm biased. Previous poster is right - what you have there is a good, balanced party, and IWD2 isn't the type of game that requires a perfect build of everything in order to survive. You just need a reasonable, well-rounded party, which you indeed have.

Grab a cleric for your 6th, though, unless you really want to rest constantly.

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