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It was requested that this discussion be taken out of the movie thread, as I agree it had nothing to do with movies. This is about Y: The Last Man. Oracle posted:I am a she, and that should probably sum it up. I found it insulting and laughable in turns the ways he thought society would go to complete pot without men, that women would go crazy without them, Mad Max Amazon feminazis, the various stupid/unbelievable ways women would react to such a situation, etc etc. Like, maybe the daughters of the Amazon went too far, but in general I thought it was pretty accurate as to what would happen immediately. edit: I'm also very curious as to why you think "the world going to pot" after all the men died was unrealistic at all. As he discusses, our society is male-dominated (I am not saying that men are better/smarter, just that this is the reality of how our society is built) and we would lose almost every human being from a large number of infrastructure-critical jobs. Hell, things would get very, very bad if we lost 50% of the population from random sampling, but with the way masculinity is socially integrated with a large number of important jobs, losing all males would be a particularly awful. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 20:47
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bobkatt013 posted:In Zombie movies things do go to poo poo as quickly. It was also not that society went to complete poo poo it was more the fact there was a huge shift in everything, and they had to figure out why. Also I did not find the Amazons that bad since doomsday cults are always around. It's MORE realistic than zombie movies, which is why I find the objection so strange. Society half-crumbles, but the series shows it rebuilding, and various women react in a hell of lot of different ways. If the events of the book happened, a large number of women WOULD become worthlessly despondent or crazy - this is not because women are crazy, but because you're drawing from a sample of 50% of the population. Same thing would happen in reverse. My one realism problem with the series is that I don't think that Yorick would have missed his opportunity to become Lord of Boning All He Sees. I know there is a storyline that addresses his sexual hang-ups, but I didn't find it's explanation satisfactory.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:56
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Madkal posted:Granted it's been a long time since I read Y so I don't remember every single detail, but just like any other dystopian/future set genre piece the reader is always shown from the protagonists point of view, and focuses on a small subsection of people. So, as with the Amazonian women, we are focused on them because Yorrick's sister is with them. We are shown a functioning society in the prison (again because Yorrick crosses paths with the prison). For the sake of danger and suspense of course Yorrick is going to encounter problems and such. It would be a pretty boring book otherwise. I don't think BKV set out to say "see, look how lovely things would get if it was only women" but more like "wouldn't it be interesting if there was one man left in the world and he had to deal with these type of people". I actually found the book to be very pro-women. Or rather, it treated women as people, not as a boring MRA-fantasy women who can't survive on their own or Xena Warrior Princess who doesn't need men for anything. Their society is hurting without dudebros, but it isn't worthless.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:58
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CapnAndy posted:Losing 50% of any society would be an unspeakable calamity. Losing an entire gender, from every species, is beyond apocalyptic. If nobody can breed, life is loving done, game over, pack it in. They should be going through some Children of Men type poo poo, not the relatively cosy upheaval that Y actually portrays.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:05
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Oracle posted:It treated women as two-dimensional caricatures who were often cardboard stand-ins for various takes on feminist philosophy. I'm not even trying to defend the book as great literature, but I don't think you're justifying thinking of it as garbage. quote:Except its quite possible to combine the DNA from two eggs and get a viable (if always female) offspring. So no, life is not loving done, though male life is. And similar experiments have been performed since the 70s, so there's not even the 'well that happened since the book came out' excuse, either. I am also not a geneticist or any kind of scientist and I knew about it, so neither is that an excuse. quote:And yet who is the star of the show? Whose voice takes precedence? Why is it he can only seem to find women who have been hosed up past all recognition by the loss of men as romantic partners? The fact you have this very interesting setting and yet you're relegated to learning about it through the eyes of this twit is really annoying. Its like Twilight for fedora-bedecked neckbeards. 'Oh woe is me I am the center of the world's attention even though I do nothing, am a boring cipher and have no purpose besides being the world's McGuffin! Why won't they just leave me alone to be with my ONE TRUE LOVE? Oh wait, time for a lecture!' edit: My wording here was poor. The series deals with Yorick being a nobody except for his survival. He is the main character, but there's a lot of recognition of the fact that he IS NOT special, just lucky. There's genuinely earned existential angst because the one defining thing of Yorick in this world is that he produces sperm, and that who is is as a person is completely inconsequential. That's interesting to me. quote:I am not saying people would not mourn. I am not saying the world would not be chaotic. I am saying this guy's take on it is laughably unrealistic. No women is going to just cut her left boob off and go riding around the countryside on a motorcycle tearing poo poo up, let alone recruit a bunch of other women to do the same thing, because PATRIARCHY IS DEAD AND WE MUST KEEP IT THAT WAY or whatever bullshit reason was given. quote:The Japanese dating thing came across as both racist and sexist. 'Oh hey they have geishas, those are like fake girlfriends, let's have them become fake boyfriends!' What the hell does he think women do when they're not in a relationship and they want to go out to dinner now? Its like he has no concept of how women act when men aren't around and it becomes painfully obvious as the series goes on. I obviously can't see into your brain, but I do not think your response is in any way proportional to your complaints. I enjoyed the series even if it had some wasted opportunities, uneven pacing, and a few dumb ideas. For a work of its size produced in the comics medium, it was pretty neat-o. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 22:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:while trying to be truth is in the middle. I agree that the series is sometimes preachy, but I think a lot of what happens is that BKV knew he was a male writer working on a largely-female cast, and was overly worried about how the things he said would come across.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:13
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mr.capps posted:I like how Y was not only was kinda boring and mediocre, but seemed to go out of its way to remain so. Like they would introduce some cool concepts and interesting ideas in there, but then do nothing with them. The male astronauts getting killed off as soon as they were introduce is probably the biggest example. Well, they did add a twist with the pregnant astronaut, but that's one of the plot threads that seemed to get away from him. Like, it comes up again, but never in a particularly meaningful way.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:There is a lot of Well so and so is bad as well, both sides are wrong comes up a lot. quote:Also I don't mind preachy but its just not well done. " We don't need men" (and several variations of it) come up a lot in the first issue which just made me groan. That's fair, and like I said, I think a lot of that was BKV overreacting to show "hey, I am writing a ladybook and I am cool with ladies!"
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Feb 11, 2014 22:26
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Sarchasm posted:Yorick absolutely is a twit. No one who reads the book thinks anything else. He is, by leaps and bounds, the most useless person in the main cast. It is staggeringly bad luck that he is the only living male left on the planet. And that's why the book is interesting.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:34
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CapnAndy posted:Some people like it? The science pisses me off badly enough that I can't see past it; the book tries to ground itself in being real-world (BKV just loooooves to shoehorn in the statistics he learned doing research for each story) and, in my opinion, that makes it all the worse when the time comes for answers about the plague and they turn out to be rooted in the worst sort of discredited psuedo-science and general bullshit. I would have been much happier with A Wizard Did It, That's Also Why Nothing's Going Extinct, Magic, Shut Up. I'm pretty sure all the mammals go extinct, dude. They specifically discuss how it has been long enough that a specific species is gone now. (pygmy shrews or something?) The only part of it that makes absolutely no sense from the science side of things is that they all died at the exact same moment. edit: Mr. Maltose posted:If BKV wrote as well as Updike this conversation probably wouldn't be happening.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:38
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bobkatt013 posted:If I remember correctly they just gave theories. They really did not reveal what was the actual cause. It is really, really heavily implied to be based on a science experiment in the later volumes, and that Yorick survived due to his exposure to a science monkey's poop. Which makes perfect sense if, y'know, it weren't for the simultaneous death.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:46
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CapnAndy posted:There's also a moment later on when someone sees a rat or something and mentions how they should have gone extinct by now, but didn't, because LIFE FINDS A WAY whatever that's why the ecosystem hasn't collapsed and mass starvation isn't an issue everybody look over there now. I do not remember this part, and that would be fairly dumb. Does anyone know if they have cows and stuff after the large time skip? edit: I feel like most entire ecosystems aren't mammal-dependent. There would obviously be cascading extinctions, but I feel like "nature" as a whole would do reasonably well without 'em. And again, fishing would still be really viable. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 22:47
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CapnAndy posted:Okay, yeah, "nature" as a whole would make it in some form or another, but the mammals would be loving gone; the utopia of the epilogue's time-jump is wholly unbelievable. And we're overfishing species into extinction now, how viable would it really be if we were down to fish or soy for all our protein? Well, we're probably at significantly under 50% of our caloric needs with all the bros gone, and fish have lost some significant predators (seals, dolphins), but yeah, probably not going to balance out. Also, now is the age of lizard farming.  Wait we all forgot about chicken. Poultry production should be fine. The real loss is going to be dairy. edit: The more I think about it, with chickens, 50% of the population (and the biggest eaters) lopped off, and large-scale death immediately afterward, you could PROBABLY just barely scrape by. It isn't the foregone conclusion the novel acts like, though.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:02
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Lurdiak posted:It occured to me last night that almost no one calls Dr. Doom "Dr." in comics anymore. Everyone just calls him "Doom". I don't know if that's just an impression I get, but I feel like they've been more or less trying to ditch the nonsensical "Doctor" part of his name as much as they can get away with. NONE SHALL CHALLENGE POST-DOCTORATE DEGREE DOOM!
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Feb 19, 2014 23:11
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Rhyno posted:FOOLISH RICHARDS! YOU HAVE INTERFERED WITH MY PLANS FOR THE LAST TIME! DOOM HAS TENURE! I have also always wanted Marvel to reveal an alternate dimension that contains Doctor Doom, D.D.S. YOU FOOLS WILL REGRET NOT FLOSSING
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Feb 19, 2014 23:18
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Whether or not you think Kirby work holds up today, it has great historic importance to comic books and defined Marvel as a superhero comic book publisher. I mean, I'm trying to imagine what Marvel would have been without Kirby - I just can't. If I drew Galactus I would have second guessed myself and assumed I was stupid, and I couldn't have been more wrong.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:39
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Hakkesshu posted:Evidently it's still too awesome to put in a film, though. Well, they'd have to make a Fantastic 4 movie, first. And they've never done that! NO THEY HAVEN'T SHUT UP
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Feb 20, 2014 16:47
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You guys having the same avatar confused the hell out of me. I was wondering why this crazy person was arguing with himself.
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Feb 23, 2014 01:08
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Waterhaul posted:You joke but let's not pretend that BSS hasn't had a Forerunner (the greatest and most baddass character ever) thread. The Paste-Pot Pete MEGATHREAD incoming.
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Feb 28, 2014 17:01
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irlZaphod posted:Don't Dan Didio and Grant Morrison both care about the Metal Men? They're pretty awesome in 52.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:18
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Lurdiak posted:Red Tornado is like the only character Batman: The Brave and the Bold wasn't able to make interesting, which is astounding. Uh, that episode is completely awesome. "Is this...tingling...the Christmas spirit?" *explodes*
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Feb 28, 2014 23:57
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Lurdiak posted:That christmas ep and the episode where he has a robot kid are the only ones in the entire series I kept wishing would end already. As my friend observed, "gently caress you, boring Vision." He gives batman a world's greatest detective mug, what is wrong with you. edit: I was literally regretting my purchase of the DVDs until I got to the "Red Tornado wants to learn the meaning of Christmas episode, you have no soul."
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Mar 1, 2014 01:05
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Lurdiak posted:I have no soul? You just poo poo-talked the first Aquaman episode. And seriously the first Red Tornado episode is awesome. I can only assume you watched it in the wrong language or perhaps while asleep.
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Mar 1, 2014 08:31
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Endless Mike posted:Yeah, it's *really* not hard to map out a three movie series for Green Lantern that likely would have gone over way better than what we got. I also really felt like Ryan Reynolds was trying way too hard. Like, he knew he wasn't supposed to just be Ryan Reynolds, and he wasn't, but I couldn't tell you anything about the personality of Hal Jordan in that movie. He's a guy?
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Mar 10, 2014 21:46
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Endless Mike posted:Same, but the comics. Eh, he's not consistent in the comics (I'm mostly read Johns' stuff) but he at least seems like a realistic military guy? I literally can't tell you anything about Ryan Reynolds as GL. He seemed like some guy going through the motions the entire time. Supporting cast was pretty good, though. Hector Hammond was awesome, Kilowog was basically what I wanted from Kilowog, and Sinestro seemed fine.
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Mar 10, 2014 22:06
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Endless Mike posted:I think Marvel has plenty of characters who would translate to TV pretty well, and, hey, they're doing just that with Netflix. That Agents of SHIELD is not good is hopefully not really a good indicator of future quality. Agents of SHIELD is impressively boring. The most frustrating thing for me (in the 5 episodes I watched) is that every single episode was "go get the mcguffin", and wasn't about superheroes at all! In all honesty, the plot of every episode I saw except for the pilot would have worked EXACTLY as well if I had been watching Chuck. I like Chuck, it was a fun show, but that isn't what I want out of a SHIELD show even a little bit - especially since Chuck's cast was more interesting in every single way (except Agent Coulson is pretty good).
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Mar 11, 2014 16:14
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Hakkesshu posted:Well, okay, finding the show boring is perfectly sane, but the show was never, and is never, going to be about superheroes. I mean just the fact that it's called Agents of SHIELD says all you need to know. Hell, Eureka felt more like it took place in the Marvel universe than most of the episodes of SHIELD I've watched.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:16
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Lurdiak posted:The Mandarin guy isn't gonna be asking for RDJ level salaries, for example. quote:In a career spanning over 40 years, he has won an Oscar, Grammy, BAFTA, two Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild awards.
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Mar 11, 2014 19:01
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Lurdiak posted:Why the gently caress would a space organization use a term with such a loaded earth-based etymology, though. That's the real question. People make english puns and idioms when they're technically speaking other languages all the time in fiction, you just generally have to pretend that they're actually speaking your language. It does get dumb when you think about it but it's the kind of thing that, if the author wasted time addressing it, would just limit their capacity to tell whatever story they're trying to tell.
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Mar 13, 2014 15:59
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bobkatt013 posted:In Farscape John uses idioms all the time, and they look at him like he is a crazy person. I've only watched bits and pieces of Farscape, but I bet if you analyzed it closely you'd find a few idioms that slipped through because they're so second-nature to the writer that they forgot they were idioms. Addressing that kind of thing works way better in somewhat comedic settings, as well.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:29
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Mister Roboto posted:I remember Red Dwarf doing lots of jokes about that, randomly slipping common modern phrases in and sometimes they work and sometimes the characters get them comically wrong, like thinking Popeye was a great philosopher. I really want to give Red Dwarf another try but the first season was just SO cheesy I had a hard time getting into it.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:42
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CapnAndy posted:Is he at all aware that Azrael is a biblical name, and not the kind you actually want to name your kids after? *technically he's only in Bible fanfiction. edit: Ghostlight posted:This is the pun dreams are made of.
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Mar 14, 2014 07:10
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Sarchasm posted:^^Oh yeah, well I cite my references. Anyone can be first if you just post willy-nilly. Wow, I never would have puzzled that one out. Thanks to both of you. 
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Mar 14, 2014 07:25
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Hakkesshu posted:No. I'm just saying let's call a spade a spade and say that this is why the show fails, not because RDJ or whomever doesn't show up in an episode. Who cares, they could at least FEEL like they're part of the superhero universe.
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Mar 16, 2014 06:14
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Was Taters posted:I assume you're already aware of Buziek's Astro City?
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Mar 19, 2014 18:45
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Squidster posted:The Wake is pretty good post-apocalyptic horror, and the art is beyond fantastic.
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Mar 24, 2014 05:38
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d00gZ posted:I get the funeral wake and the like flooding wake, but what's the third one? They woke up. ^^^ all the monsters literally woke up.
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Mar 24, 2014 05:40
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d00gZ posted:Oh wow, I really AM dumb. You got both of the hard ones and missed the obvious one, it's OK. But yeah, as far as I can tell, triple entendre.
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Mar 24, 2014 06:59
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Rhyno posted:So last week I started selling on ebay again. I've already pulled in about $200 so it's been worth the effort but some dude is really upset about not winning an auction. Huh, it's almost like there's no good reason to not put in your maximum price you're willing to pay on eBay? Last minute eBay sniping irritates me, because there's no reason for it to exist if people would just use the system correctly.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:39
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Waterhaul posted:That depends. How many dicks appear in Spawn Grant's work is about a 50/50 split for me with whether I was furious at him, or in love with him, after I read the book. Some of his stuff is SO GOOD but sometimes you have to know EXACTLY what he's talking about to make heads or tails of the comic.
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Mar 31, 2014 16:04
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But man I know Stokoe would kill it going crazy drawing Spawn's cape but I couldn't help but feel he'd be criminally wasted.