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Evil SpongeBob posted:I'd love to hear stories or advice on negotiating benefits as opposed to salary. Like relocation, hiring bonus, etc. I tried to negotiate on vacation time when I accepted my current position. It's a smaller tech company, in the 50-100 employee range. The benefits at the time were not super competitive in the industry, but they said they were working on improving them. The defined benefit policy was 2 weeks/yr to start, and the job I was considering leaving was 3 weeks/yr. I went back and forth a couple of times, basically telling them I was declining the job unless they could increase the vacation time. They just straight out refused to do it, but every time they came back with another 3-4k/yr. I ended up taking the job once they upped the salary by about 5k from their starting offer (which was already about 5k over my previous job's salary) plus a signing bonus of a few thousand dollars. It still amuses me that they were happy to increase my salary by like 3x the dollar value of a week of vacation, but hey at some point money talks. But now since I've joined the vacation policy has been upped to 3 weeks/yr across the board, sick time has improved from use-it-or-lose it to roll-over, health insurance costs have decreased, and our Fidelity 401k now has cheap Spartan index funds to choose from. So huzzah. I don't know if that really answers your question very well, but in my one experience trying to play hardball on benefits they were pretty unwilling to budge on stuff like vacation/sick days, but were happy to increase salary or pay a signing bonus.
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Mar 7, 2014 02:58
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Man, recruiters, particularly third-party, are terrible. I don't even bother looking at third-party recruiter messages anymore, especially the ones that won't tell you the name of the company they're recruiting for up front. I know there are decent recruiters out there, I've dealt with a small handful of them and they were mostly first-party recruiters. But man the majority of them are just awful and give everyone a bad rep. You handled that pretty well.
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Mar 10, 2014 18:05
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Kobayashi posted:I really can't emphasize enough how important it is to start at a salary that makes you happy. By all means, take other benefits into account when you're negotiating that last 10%, but at the end of the day if the dollar amount is not something you're satisfied with, it will not change substantially until you leave or are ready to leave for another offer. Make it count. I just want to beat this dead horse one more time because I see people, including my friends, fall for the empty promise of "after 3/6/whatever months we'll review your salary and adjust accordingly." Promises like that don't mean anything, cost the company basically nothing to make, and nothing to break. It's BS. It ain't gonna happen, and even in the off-chance that it does you won't be seeing more than like a 4-5% raise out of it. Your initial salary negotiations are typically your only chance to play hardball and get what you want. It will be the anchor for all of your future raises and bonuses for your entire time at the company. Negotiating an extra 10 or 20% up front can be literally years worth of raises and bonuses, and it is guaranteed in your salary. Plus it raises the basis for those future raises and bonuses. It's kind of like compound interest. Once you accept that offer you lose most of your negotiating leverage. Maybe a couple years down the line when you've proven that you're a valuable part of the team and you feel that the yearly 3% raise hasn't kept up with your market rate, you might be able get a substantial raise by getting a concrete offer from another company. It might work, or they might tell you to go piss up a rope, it will depend on your company and how integral you are to the team. Plus you have to be willing to actually leave and take the other offer, and you only get to play this card once in a blue moon. Moral of the story: Negotiate hard up front. Be willing to walk away if you can't settle on an agreeable comp package (if you are fortunate enough to be in a position to do so). Guinness fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 17:45
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Also keep in mind that recruiting and hiring is an expensive process for the employer. If they find a candidate that they like and want to hire, it is very expensive for them to let that hire slip away over reasonable salary negotiations and what is ultimately a small amount of money to the business.
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Mar 23, 2014 00:01
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There's really no harm in asking for a little more. Worst case they stay firm on their original offer and you accept it. Unless you're a total dickhole about it they aren't going to rescind the offer. Remember that your starting salary basically anchors your compensation for your entire stay at that company. All your future raises and bonuses will be based on your starting salary. Negotiating another 5k or whatever up front when it's easy will have lasting benefits and will be compounded over time.
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Mar 24, 2014 18:37
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You'll never know if you don't ask.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:44
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Charge at least what your new annual salary is but as an hourly rate. If you're making 80k/yr, charge at least $80/hr.
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Apr 29, 2014 01:01
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It's not inherently a bad move to accept a counter from your current employer, but it will be very situational and will depend a lot on your role and relationships where you're at. You also have to play it very diplomatically for it to go over well. If you're essential and irreplaceable and have grown the value you provide over time you'll be in a better position than someone entry level and relatively replaceable. Keep in mind though if you've got reasons for leavings other than just money, a pay raise isn't likely going to fix those other issues.
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May 2, 2014 17:03
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Yes, just move on. Thank them, tell them that you'd love to be considered for future positions, and then move on.
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May 19, 2014 21:06
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Unseen posted:I'm a software engineer working at a defence contractor. The industry has begun to contract and we've had multiple rounds of layoffs. On top of that we just lost a huge contract so the future is even more bleak. I'm young and cheap so chances are I won't get laid off any time soon. However there's no exciting work now or in the future and I'm bored. I make 68k and have about 3 years software experience. Where are you geographically? Even 75k sounds kind of low to me for a 3-year experienced software engineer especially at a big corporation or contracting house. My numbers and perception are probably skewed a little though. Where I'm at 75k is entry-level software engineer. If you've got 3 years experience and can back it up with demonstrable real-world skills you could probably pretty easily swing 100k or more in Seattle, but with the cost of living to match.
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Jun 5, 2014 18:25
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I suppose it depends on the industry, but at least in tech I don't think many people would consider 2 years at a company job hopping. On the hiring side of things, job hopper red flags are when you haven't held down a single position for more than a year or so in the recent past. A few months ago we hired a guy who seemed decent but we were definitely concerned about his recent job history. In the past 6 or 7 years he was at something like 8 or 9 different jobs. Granted a couple of them were contract positions, but a lot of them were also FTE. In the interview he was saying how he was looking for a place to "settle down" and blah blah. Against our better judgement we ended up hiring and not even 3 months later he quit for another job. The days of being a "company man" and working at the same place for decades is largely over. Company loyalty is a two-way street and most companies are not particularly loyal to their employees when push to comes to shove. And just on a personal note, working at the same place for decades would drive me crazy so I'm kind of okay with it.
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Jun 10, 2014 18:22
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Ok, phew, that still sounds like their HR person is a knob and their hiring practices leave something to be desired, but your original post's wording made it sound like they were offering you 30k/yr salary for a PhD pharma position in SF which is just criminal.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:22
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Generally it's a good sign, but it's still not a slam dunk, especially if you're onsite for in-depth technical interviewing. Typically companies with that lengthy and rigorous (and expensive) of an interview process are highly selective, sometimes/often to the point of letting perfect be the enemy of good/great. But if you interview well I'd say your chances for an offer are quite high.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:22
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Well, would you want to take a pay cut for the job and/or change of location? Because that's essentially what it would be. If you don't want to take an effective pay cut, give them your number and let them deal with it. If they tell you to pound sand, well, you didn't want to work there for that pay anyway and you just saved a lot of time. If they want to continue talking, then you know you have a shot at actually negotiating an agreeable salary. Contrary to many internet posters, it's not always a bad move to anchor the salary discussion with your own number. If you already have stable, well-paying employment and someone is trying to recruit/poach you then you're in the position of power to say that "I expect a salary in the ballpark of x", where x is what you would actually agree to plus some buffer for negotiation. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 24, 2014 |
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Sep 24, 2014 22:42
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Nope, don't give notice until you've got a letter signed and back in the hands of your new employer. This. Even if it feels unlikely, don't screw yourself by giving notice before the paperwork is finalized. Until all the documents are signed and returned it isn't a done deal.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:07
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HonorableTB posted:So I got an incredibly lovely deal. The specifics: So I'm in tech in Seattle (a QAE, actually) but not at Amazon. From the half dozen people I know who have all worked at Amazon (past tense for a reason) it's a toxic workaholic culture with lots of on-call hours and few perks or fringe benefits. The turnover and employee churn at Amazon is just insane. Sure, it will vary on a team by team basis, but that's the general tone I've heard from most everyone I've talked to working in Dev/Test/Ops there. As an hourly with overtime (because they will grind you up with overtime) then the gross pay probably doesn't end up looking too bad, but a 66k salary is pretty criminally low for a QAE with a couple years experience in Seattle, especially considering the demands of Amazon. Those signing bonuses and stock grants help make up for it a bit, but they have some major strings attached with vesting and tenure requirements. You'll owe that signing bonus back if you don't last/make it for a year and if you don't stick it out for all 4 those stock grants will only be worth a fraction of what they say. That 66k base sounds below average among QAE/SDETs at Amazon, and an 80k total comp is from my experience below average in the region for the type of work. My total comp is more in the ballpark of 115-125k depending on how you calculate it, without having to fudge factor it with one-time signing bonuses and slow-vesting stock grants. What seems to happen a lot around here is that people get hired at Amazon as a way to move to the city with the big signing bonus, and then start looking for a better job within 1-2 years after their bonus fully vests. That kind of sounds like what you might be trying to do, as well. If you work hard for a year or two, are reasonably bright/interview well, and have Amazon on your resume you'd be in pretty good shape to job hunt once you're relocated. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 21:07
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skipdogg posted:Amazon has a brilliant idea there... Import qualified employees from low cost of living areas with what they think is a great salary, and then they have to work for you for at least a year, unless they want to pay back a relo bonus you know they can't afford to pay back because 66K a year in Seattle is like making 46K in an normal cost of living area. After the first year the 10K 2nd year bonus is there keeping you around, and then going into your 3rd year the sweet sweet allure of vested stock options keeps you around for another 2 years. Yep, it's pretty diabolically genius. And is also why Amazon mostly hires young people recently out of college and/or from out of town. None of the experienced tech people I work with in Seattle would ever consider working at Amazon. But I can see how it would appeal if you really want to move to Seattle and break into the tech world from elsewhere. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 21:46
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skipdogg posted:I personally prefer to evaluate the 'overall compensation package' as PTO, Health Benefits, and the working environment is more important to me than my total cash compensation at this point in my career. I would gladly take 10K less to work somewhere I get more vacation time and have flexible hours vs. the standard 1 or 2 weeks vacation and 8 to 5 hours. Yep, this. If you're not comparing and negotiating on total comp then you're doing it wrong. Base salary is only one (albeit large) piece of the puzzle, and though frequently the easiest to negotiate on is not the only thing to negotiate on. Vacation time is very valuable, I'd personally take a decent base salary hit for more vacation time. What about sick time? Does the company lump vacation and sick time together into just "PTO"? If they're trendy and have "unlimited" vacation/sick policies, is the culture such that you can actually ever take vacation? Does the company offer a 401k or similar? How much do they match? How long before matches fully vest? Is the 401k custodian any good, or is it full of lovely funds? How much of the cost of health/dental/vision insurance does the company cover - all, some, or none? Are the plan options actually any good? This can be a very "real money" difference, on the order of hundreds of dollars per month. Is there profit sharing or some other structured bonus plan? Is there even profit to share? Are the bonus targets achievable? Is there an ESPP if its a public company? If so, what are the rules and restrictions? Is it a good discount? How long do you have to hold before you sell? In most cases, startup equity is worth about as much as a roll of toilet paper. It's a long shot gamble on 1) the company succeeding and having some sort of liquidity event, and 2) your measly equity stake not getting diluted to hell before that liquidity event. A larger salary today is worth much more than a gamble on equity. Unless you're a co-founder or a VC you're probably getting the short end of the stick on equity. What about other fringe benefits? Free transit pass? Subsidized daycare? Flexible hours? Short commute? Catered meals? Quality of location/office/equipment/culture?
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Nov 5, 2014 01:32
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Easychair Bootson posted:I'm sure this isn't correct per company policy, and almost sure it's not correct legally. I'm employed at-will. When I put in my notice there's no reason that they can't tell me that they're terminating my employment immediately. Yeah, pretty sure they don't have to pay you if they decide to terminate you immediately. However, at established companies that may have privacy/security/clearance reasons to immediately terminate an employee that gives notice, it is not uncommon to still pay them out for the last 2 weeks despite them not actually 'working' there anymore. But they are legally required to pay you out for any accrued vacation time or bonuses that are on the books but not paid out yet.
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Nov 25, 2014 19:28
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Sand Monster posted:I interviewed multiple times with a company. When it came time to discuss salary, they won the "get the other person to name a number first" game, and I gave them an honest number for what I would need to even consider another opportunity. The response was that the position was budgeted for much less than that (a substantial amount less). I later responded via email to say, "thanks but no thanks". They're acting shocked and saying that the budget is not actually what they told me. Am I out of line to have walked away? Maybe this is the way the negotiating game is supposed to be played, and I'm woefully unprepared. Which is fine, it is what it is and I guess I'll learn from my mistakes and prepare myself to get lied to every time going forward, but to be deceptive like that is something that bothers me and gives me a poor impression of the company itself (e.g. "What else will they misrepresent?"). By the sound of it I think you did everything right, and sometimes that just means that you won't come to a mutually agreeable offer. Remember that you're interviewing and negotiating with them, too, and the goal isn't necessarily to close the deal every time, but to find a good skills/compensation/cultural fit. When you have skills and experience that can command higher compensation (assuming the numbers are indeed based in reality) you have every right to walk away. In fact, by not walking away you'd be devaluing those skills and experience. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 21:13
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Boot and Rally posted:b) Titles can be trickier as they are visible. This means that a company risks alienating present employees hoping to move up by hiring into the positions above them. Obviously this can and does happen, but in some sense it is easier to get more money than title. Titles are a funny thing. In some companies/industries they mean a whole heck of a lot, and in others they're essentially just made up. Tech and software companies I've worked/consulted for give away regal-sounding titles like candy because they're meaningless and free. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 18:49
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jasawnc posted:and create a few database related apps Unless these are super duper trivial "apps" that can be accomplished in a < 100 line bash/powershell script, this is starting to sound like the "Assistant Network Admin" title doesn't quite apply... When I think Assistant Network Admin I think the guy that keeps the wifi running and manages the backups, because bitch work always gets given to the assistant admin.
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Feb 8, 2015 00:19
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Chalets the Baka posted:I don't want to feel like I have to be threatening to jump ship to get ahead. Unfortunately in many/most situations you kind of have to, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily have to literally threaten to leave. But by asking for a raise and backing it up with data about what your role and responsibilities can earn you at other companies, you're kind of implicitly saying that "hey, I think I'm worth more than you pay me and I'm not going to stick around being underpaid forever." If management doesn't get the hint, then it might be time to think more seriously about actually going out and getting other offers. That said, the most surefire way to secure a large promotion/raise anymore is to jump jobs, especially early-mid career. Companies are most willing and fastest to negotiate during the new hire process, especially in a high-skill industry, whereas they'll drag their feet and be non-committal about promotions or anything more than an annual COL adjustment (if that). I doubled my salary within 3 years by jumping jobs twice, but now I've been at the same place for almost 3 years and until something really incredibly awesome comes along I'm not intending to leave in the near future. Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 16, 2015 |
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Mar 16, 2015 19:05
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The general rule is don't disclose, but that doesn't mean never disclose. For many state agencies they are pretty well bound into pay grades for certain positions, so there may not be a ton of negotiation possible regardless. And in some situations disclosure of your current salary can work in your favor, particularly if you are already well-compensated and are attempting to push their offer up higher. If you do disclose, consider giving them your total compensation instead of your base salary. You would not be lying, and since benefits and bonuses can vary so much company to company, base salary isn't a very good comparison metric anyway.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:49
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Your current company laid you off, made you apply & interview for internal transfers rather than placing you, and you're worried about company loyalty and burning bridges rather than a 20k raise to work elsewhere? Think about that for a second. Changing jobs and companies is commonplace and widely accepted in the tech industry, and is by far the most common and effective way to get yourself into more senior, more interesting, and higher-paying gigs. You won't be burning bridges unless you literally tell everyone to go gently caress themselves on your way out the door. Don't be loyal to companies, be loyal to individual people you might some day want to work with again. People move around as opportunities come and go. You should treat your internal interview and negotiation as just one option to be played off other options. Everyone knows verbals ain't poo poo until the ink is on paper. Your circumstances changed and ain't nothing wrong with telling them exactly that. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 22:46
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Even if you intend to stay at Amazon like a crazy person, you definitely should not back out on the other interview until you have the new position in writing and signed. Plus maybe you'll find the other company is great and the significantly higher pay is appealing. I work with a lot of ex-Amazon people that all realized they could get paid more and have a healthier work-life balance by leaving. Amazon's churn rate is just crazy.
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Apr 21, 2015 01:44
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Thanks to this thread I landed a 20% raise at my year review. Thanks, goons. drat, that's killer for a raise. Anything above like 3-4% is great, 20% is massive. Well done.
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May 7, 2015 17:57
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Maybe yes, maybe no... like many things it depends. Just because you didn't have to pull teeth to get what you wanted doesn't mean you screwed up. Hopefully your high end was actually high. If the people hiring you aren't trying to lowball every potential hire and know the value of what they're hiring for, then it's quite possible that it was just a good fit right away even at your high end. Rather than play games over a couple thousand a year they just closed the deal. I've had this happen to me before and it turned out great, and I've also been part of hiring people where this happened. On the other hand, if you lowballed yourself out of the gate then its possible that they thought "oh man we were expecting to have to pay X but this guy just offered X-10 on his high end, done!" Edit: Also, yes, in the future just give one number that you are looking for, and base it on the high end of what you think your skills are worth. Easier to come down from your first number than to try to raise it after the fact. Ranges are too squishy and let people hear what they want to hear. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 18:35
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2 (or even 4) years professional experience isn't senior level, no matter how good you are.
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Aug 1, 2015 04:29
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I generally will make this kind of play only when approached by a company and when I'm ambivalent about it with regards to the concerns outside of salary. Showing an interviewer that you have a spine and some sense of how to negotiate and how to stand your ground is not a bad thing (it's not a good thing either, it's a skill you can demonstrate that will grossly offend some people and impress others). This is part of why already having a job is the best time to be interviewing, since you don't need the job. If the company/HR/interviewer are being knobs about the process you can just tell them to go piss up a rope and consider it a bullet dodged. If someone is trying to poach you they should make the process as easy as fuckin' possible. If they can't even pretend to be easy to work with when they should be trying to impress and woo you, how awful do you think they are going to be on a daily basis once you're hired? I occasionally follow up on recruiters if it's something that actually sounds interesting (rare, but it happens), and if they aren't looking to skip all that kind of BS then I just end the conversation. It's not the kind of place I want to work for, especially not when I already have a good job. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 20:33
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Dik Hz posted:False urgency is a common negotiation tactic. Politely ask for more time if you need more time to decide. If they're dicks about it, they're likely to dicks about a lot more things. Absolutely. And to add, often offer letters have expirations because companies don't want a contract like that sitting out there open for weeks on end. It's not necessarily to create false urgency, though often it is. I've asked and waited past offer expiration dates, and if you're a skilled professional, are polite, and the company is not a bag of dicks they'll happily write up a new one if the previous one expired. It is not at all uncommon for negotiations to last weeks or even months in the high end professional/managerial world. When you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, potentially complicated bonus and benefits structures, intellectual property clauses, etc. it is even likely that negotiations will involve at least one, if not several, expired offer letters as figures and terms are finalized. At the lower end of the market you'll obviously find much less leeway, however.
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Sep 19, 2015 01:12
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:The number one thing I've learned from this thread but still have not had the opportunity to test in real life is that you'll only be able to significantly increase your compensation if you jump ship--i.e., have competing offers in hand--yet here I am 3 years out of college and still at the same place that hired me off of Craigslist, and along the way I've made nearly 60% in wage increases from my starting pay. Going from an underpaid post-production grunt to capitalizing on other people's mistakes and departures makes me wonder whether I'll be subsequently useless in any other industry, lol. Kalenn Istarion posted:I wouldn't say only, lots of companies are in fact good at paying people fair value. Those people don't come to this thread much, I'm guessing. That said, a change can if you feel that isn't happening. There are lots of situations where someone's skills or experience are being undervalued, and a transition will realize that value if done properly. I agree, the world is not only full of crappy companies looking to screw you, but it is prevalent enough that it's something to be seriously on the look out for. Even at the best and most generous of companies, you still need to advocate for yourself and periodically reassess how much value you are really delivering. This thread definitely focuses on the challenges, difficulties, and tricks of negotiation and can definitely come off as overly harsh or aggressive about the whole thing at times. The real world is full of many more nuances and subtleties that are really hard to communicate/discuss over the internet, but when it comes to evaluating the value of your labor and respectfully, successfully negotiating for it this thread has a lot to offer in general. More than anything it is knowing your value and not being afraid to ask for it. The proof is in how many success stories there have been of people in the interview/negotiation process coming in here, looking for tips, and reporting back higher salaries and benefits than they likely would have otherwise gotten. In the longer term, being a good negotiator (at least not a pushover) likely leads to better career prospects for a variety of reasons, and helps you spot the good companies to work for.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:19
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kloa posted:Maybe it's a generational thing, but why is emailing, rather than face to face, "not a good business practice" when discussing promotions and raises? Coming from a technical job, I'm used to having a paper trail for everything that happens around me. I don't like the idea of going to lunch with my boss, him saying I'll get the raise I want, and then come time it doesn't happen due to "other circumstances," but maybe that's just me projecting Initiate and feel it out in person, finalize and confirm details via email/paper.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:56
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Sri.Theo posted:Does anyone have any specific insight into negotiations in the UK? Every job I've had has asked me if I want the job before discussing pay, which I think makes it more difficult to negotiate. I don't live in the UK, but I can't imagine that they make you sign anything binding before discussing compensation, that'd just be crazy. Entering into good-faith negotiations I think already signals that you "want the job" if all the details and numbers are agreeable. quote:Also when it comes to benefits, I've never really seen things like signing bonuses, transport payments or more than the standard 3 weeks leave plus sick leave and 2/3 well being days being offered. I suppose that's the flip side of living in a country that provides basic human services and decency to every citizen rather than tying them into employment contracts. I'd much prefer to have universal healthcare, mandated vacation/holidays, etc. than have to negotiate and calculate it all. It works out okay for highly skilled professionals, but as a society most people are getting the short end of the stick. quote:I'm working in entry level public policy/charity roles which I think its very different to the software world most people here are in. Yeah, you'll definitely find that in the public sector that pay bands and benefits are pretty fixed without a lot of room for negotiation, doubly so at the entry level. My girlfriend is finishing up grad school and looking at specialist positions in several public school districts and the salary matrices that attempt to quantify qualifications, experience, seniority, etc. and link them to pay grades are complicated as hell and pretty much non-negotiable. You almost need a masters degree just to decipher them. Welcome to bureaucracy. This thread definitely caters toward private industry where there are far fewer "rules" and most things are negotiable to some extent, especially when you're more experienced and in-demand. But even if you work in the public/NGO sector, it's still very important to your career to know what your skills are and what their market value is, even if you are knowingly taking under-market pay. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 18:48
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redcheval posted:As it stands if I take the current offer, it's a pretty decent pay cut. Is there a best course of action in this case? Be willing to walk away. If they don't want to budge, tell them thank you but no. If they let you walk away, then you dodged a severely underpaying job. IMO, any company that gives out hideous lowball offers with a straight face is not a good company to work for. If they don't want to pay even near-market rate for labor, what other essential things do they not want to pay for?
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Nov 17, 2015 23:53
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Happiness Commando posted:fake edit: He claims to "hate dealing with HR stuff", which is his excuse every time he has hosed me over. I might need a new job. "Tough poo poo" to your boss. If you are a business owner and have employees, part of running the business is dealing with HR stuff. If you don't want to personally deal with it, hire or contract an HR person. Just because you don't want to deal with it doesn't mean it's okay to poo poo all over your employees. Try screwing the IRS because you "hate dealing with tax stuff" and see how far that excuse takes you. I agree with the other posters, it's time to start looking for a new job.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:15
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Saint Fu posted:Keep in mind that your friend who makes 18k more, probably has shittier benefits and more corporate BS to deal with on a weekly basis. Basically the reasons you don't want to leave. Small companies frequently compensate for lower pay by giving more non-pay benefits such as an extra week of vacation. Yeah, it is important to keep in mind the difference between salary and total compensation, both tangible and intangible. Despite most people only ever comparing salary, benefits and total comp can add up to some serious real money and quality of life differences. I just had a case of this a couple weeks ago when a friend of mine was asking for some retirement account planning advice. He recently changed jobs, and along with it came a much higher salary for him. He was asking for some retirement/saving advice and we got to talking about specifics. He does similar work to me with similar schedule, but his salary is almost 15k higher than mine. But what I didn't know was how utterly bad his benefits package is. He's a W2 employee but has no 401k, no direct health insurance plan but a "reimbursement" to go buy your own (pain in the rear end), minimal holidays, and only 2 weeks combined vacation+sick PTO. Conversely, despite being down 15k on salary, I have a great 401k that I max out plus 4% employer match, 100% paid-for HDHP insurance + $125/mo into my HSA, $1800/yr in additional vision/dental reimbursement, 3 weeks vacation, 10 sick days that roll over, 10 company holidays, paid-for parking/transit pass, and an annual profit share that has averaged about $4500/yr. Plus a few other fringe benefits that aren't worth mentioning here. Looking at only salary one would assume that my friend has the "better" job, but when you look at the whole picture it becomes a different story. The 401k difference almost bridges the salary gap by itself since it lowers/defers my annual tax burden by over $5000 (at 28%), plus the employer match of over $4000, and it is all put into low-cost passive index funds. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 20:04
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Saint Fu posted:Sounds like a case of "know when you've 'won' ". You got a 15k increase with better benefits in a place you really want to work. It doesn't sound like you are willing to walk away from it so I'd recommend taking their offer and be extremely happy. I agree. Sounds like you've won. At the end of the day a place you want to work matters more than a few thousand bucks as long as you're getting paid respectably. Maybe next time it could be played a bit better but sounds like you've reached the best deal you'll get right now.
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Jan 27, 2016 19:22
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Blinky2099 posted:I'd assume the worst and that even if there's no pressure on making a decision, they might use your reaction to judge how far they need to negotiate. Call it paranoia, but the way I see it, it can very easily hurt you discussing in person, and it's very difficult for it to help you. I agree with this. Even if there is no malice intended, it's more difficult to make your best possible decisions on the spot in person. With email you have time to read carefully, compose your thoughts, and craft your responses without mixing in too much emotion or social pressures. I just personally find it is easier to focus on being "business-like" over email. Plus with email you've got an automatic paper trail.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:42
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 06:24 |
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There is also real non-monetary value in spending 10 non-working weeks with your newborn child and wife. I know this is BFC and everything is supposed to be objective dollars and cents, but that is something incredibly valuable that can't easily be quantified.
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Feb 8, 2016 19:53
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