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StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Illusive gently caress Man posted:

I'm a leader and I don't know if I like it.

On the one hand, I'm on a relatively certain path to staff-swe in the next year. Maybe senior staff further down the line. Fat paychecks hell yeah. Also I genuinely like the people I work with.

On the other hand: In this role I have little time to do things myself. I'm the go-to person for answering questions on what feels like ~everything. I have lots of urgent stuff -- I try to delegate, but probably don't do it often enough. I miss having hours and hours of open focus time on my calendar instead of meetings and 1:1s. I'm good at the project management aspect of writing software, but don't enjoy it.

I guess that's the core of it: I'm good at stuff that the team and company highly values, but it's out of my comfort zone and I don't enjoy it.

I'm torn between
* Dialing my effort way the gently caress back to rest+vest for a while. This seems healthier for myself, but part of me will feel guilty about it.

* Continuing the things that make me unhappy until I have money to... idk? buy a nice apartment? honestly haven't thought that far ahead. This seems stupid.

* Find a way to continue in this role that makes me happier. Maybe I just need to get more comfortable delegating to others and better at managing my calendar.


Writing all this is mostly rubber ducking I guess. Has anyone else navigated something like this? Tips? Regrets?

Delegating and documenting more is a big part of it. Even if delegating a thing right now means you may end up sitting with the junior dev to walk them through how to do it, they will become better at it and tackle it in the future. Motronic's calendar advice sounds pretty applicable

Project management and SWE should be different positions, especially if you're at a place that has a staff SWE position. If you're getting pulled into project management and don't like it, definitely push back and get back into development or architecture + development (which I think is more of a soft wall, but I don't have that experience), or a tech lead position where you can provide the time estimates and help write tech portions of proposals, but someone else handles chasing other portions down.

Actually developing and managing projects or people is an easy way to get into a tough spot, because the management part is actually more important but you'll prefer to do the developer part.

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StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Guinness posted:

From my discussions with other senior+ engineers at other companies including Google, Amazon, and Microsoft that this is common. The more senior you get, the less down and dirty you are with the day to day code as your focus is on direction setting, guidance, project management, etc.

I'd love to just be the technical expert that continually makes system-level improvements without a lot of project management responsibilities, but I don't know where I could find that?

I'm curious how it works at larger companies. Mentoring, reviewing, architecting, debugging, that's all definite high level work. On the project management side, there's some stuff you can't get away from, like architecture and estimates for proposals. But a lot of project management is managing stakeholders, chasing down tasks, minutes and scheduling for meetings, budgets, making written stuff look good, and that should all be a separate PM. That's the system my small company is working on, a tech lead vs project lead division.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

hendersa posted:

Back in December, this happened:

Bringing up ancient history, but I fell in a hole while reading this. You said you interviewed for an embedded role at Google, was that to work on Android or do they have other embedded stuff going on?

I'm an old senior embedded guy myself, but I tend to be more bare metal or FreeRTOS, not Linux, and when I poke around for stuff at Google it looks like mainly FitBit work, and I just imagine myself falling asleep at a job like that.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Thanks, that sounds really unfortunate. I can deal with a dumb hiring process if there's something good at the end, but it just doesn't sound like that's the case.

And thanks for pointing me at Percepio. I'm getting more into the more advanced debug tools and that looks like an interesting one.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Small companies tend to be very idiosyncratic, so feel out the situation as you think is best. Getting a counter offer is great, but personally I hate doing the job search. levels.fyi may be skewed by other companies, and your boss will definitely bring that up, but it is still a reasonable place to start.

Do you have any insight into your startup's strategy? The standard is to get bought out, you'll want to get some guesses on the likelihood and size of that. Earning $50k less for a few years is fine if you think there will be a $1mil payout. That's hard to judge, and you'll want your own lawyer to review the deal because there are games people play. I think Options can disappear if a company is bought (maybe just unvested options? idk), but your laws may be different.

If you want salary, arguing for a huge raise might be easier if you frame it as part of more responsibilities, or just recognizing the responsibilities you have vs your job description or what a normal technical lead does. You can also try arguing for bonuses or raises based on KPIs that you feel confident in.

Ask for everything you want up front (although you can add new, equivalent things as part of negotiation). Saying "I want more money, you give me a number" is not a productive move and will just make the whole process frustrating for everyone.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
It needs to be said with a Boston accent. Ku-buh-natties

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
I feel like I might need a career tune up. I'm in a good situation now, I run an embedded team at a small part of a very large company. I'm a bit underpaid and over worked, but I have no kids so I still do pretty well. The core issue is I've sent out a couple of resumes and heard nothing back. I'm not sure what's wrong but here are a few options:
- Wrong technologies. I've been mainly doing embedded C on bare metal. I'm getting more into FreeRTOS, is that a brighter future? maybe other places are just all C++? Or maybe there's another key word I'm just not hitting? Or maybe embedded is just a lower pay range?
- Too broad. I've done pretty much everything from FPGA design to Cloud work, managing personnel, projects, proposals.
- No social media. I don't have anything interesting in my GitHub. Haven't really update my LinkedIn in a while. I don't facebook or tweet. I also don't have a big network in the area I want to work (Embedded in/from Boston).
- Only small companies? Maybe I'm just too old to get into some of the large companies?
- Other options beyond LinkedIn?

I may also be a bit picky because my current situation is relatively good, and I look at other jobs and they just sound boring. I have a lot of freedom in my job and a lot of different areas I can work in, but I see salaries mentioned here and they sound quite exciting. I'm making around 200k tc.

Any thoughts on how to get a better response?

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

leper khan posted:

Leave MA if you're chasing comp

Remote I could do, but remote HW dev is doable but less common.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Thanks, I'll try reaching out more to the network I have

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Salary aside, how large is the code base that it is easier to modify an existing compiler rather than migrate the code?

Generally, you want your technology to be where the brainpower is, and compiler tinkering is very niche, but if the code could move into a more common language, even if it were undocumented garbage (not a rare thing), more folks could work on it.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Ihmemies posted:

So I was an x-ray tech but job prospects were slim to none in Finland for six years, so I went to university this fall to study computer sciences: https://www.tuni.fi/studentsguide/curriculum/degree-programmes/uta-tohjelma-1705?year=2022&activeTab=1

Now I'm wondering what to do next summer. There won't be school in Jun-Aug, probably not much in May either.

What kind of work could an old guy (I'm 37 heh) get after 1 year of CS? I can't get even temp jobs as an x-ray tech so it must be something else. Flipping burgers maybe?

First year of CS consists chiefly of mandatory courses like programming 1-3, functional programming, some math & statistics, intro to software development, maybe techniques in C programming language, a git course.

Prog1-3 have python, c++ and java respectively.

I could probably choose other courses too if necessary (they have a big list: https://www.tuni.fi/en/students-guide/curriculum/course-units?year=2022 )

Maybe I should do a roguelike and share the git repo with potential employees? No idea how this works really.
Are you thinking of getting an internship, or do you want to jump into full time work with 1 year of school? Either way, the way to stand out as a candidate is to have a GitHub portfolio with some clean project examples.

IMO, Python and C++ are great languages for very different things. Python should be easier to pick up and learn on your own, it's used in a ton of places. C++ is for embedded stuff or very large programs that need to manage memory carefully , or just very old code that predates modern languages. Java is closer to C++, but I don't run into it ever.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
If you're too tired because work takes 40 entire hours a day, take 2 weeks off and figure your poo poo out.

I've seen folks get themselves into trouble because they blamed their problem on their job and it was a deeper issue.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

redleader posted:

what should you do with those two weeks to "figure your poo poo out"?

Huge question and the answer depends a lot on the person and the specifics of the situation. Op says they need to figure out their long term life plan, so they can do that. I've also known people who thought their job was miserable and holding them back, so they quit and it turned out they had depression with deeper roots than their job. And it turns out depression + unemployment is just a harder hole to dig yourself out of.

The big point is that while op's job may be the least interesting part of their life, getting buckets of money for working 40 hours a week is not actually holding them back in other areas. Maybe I'm responding to my own history more than the actual op.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

bob dobbs is dead posted:

my doctor made me substitute potassium salt substitute for some of my salt intake a week ago and my productivity touchin computers outside of work went up a ridiculous amount, if we're on medicine and productivity chat

i dunno what thats about. maybe it's something else

I'm curious about this, are you on some kind of keto diet, or do you just not eat fresh foods or veggies?

E: To be clear, not trying to tease you or anything. I know folks who take potassium supplements because they were on keto. But if its the kind of thing folks may need because of a lot of takeout food or something, I have a friend I may suggest it to. It does sound like the kind of thing that really helps if you need it

StumblyWumbly fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 20, 2022

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

awesomeolion posted:

Anyone have tips for how to improve my architecture and design skills? I tend to jump in and try stuff rather than sitting back in my rocking chair and comparing every possible architectural option. So that's one issue I think. But when I sit there brainstorming architecture options it feels like it doesn't matter and I get sleepy.

I have been writing unit tests this year for the first time. It's helping me understand why protocols and abstractions are so important. So maybe I should learn more about TDD and try to commit more to that style?

I've read sections of Designing Data Intensive Applications and it's not really relevant to me as an iOS engineer. A lot of suggestions from books like Clean Code are just kind of cringe and feel counter productive... I don't want 70 two line functions thanks. Anyways if there are books or methods for improving my software design skills please let me know, preferrably not by Robert Martin or backend/server focused.

Have you tried reading up on Design Patterns? I'm mostly in a different world from most SW so I really can't follow a lot of the standard patterns, but I think it was helpful to get a different view and change my thinking.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Focusing on unit tests such that you ignore top level tests is bad.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

New Yorp New Yorp posted:

What is a "top-level" test?

Integration or End to End, depending on where you draw the line.

My company added a lot of SW tests in pretty late, and the SW folks decided that the "pure" decision was to write complete tests for each function, starting with the ones that were easy to test for. The main SW was taking in some files and processing it in a variety of ways, and I think we could have gotten more utility more quickly if we had just run some known files with known outputs through, to make sure new features did not break the existing ones.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

It's often the case that end-to-end tests are expensive to run or slow, while unit tests are cheap and fast. If your E2E tests are fast, then sure, just use those. You lose some specificity when a test fails, but odds are you can figure out what broke by looking at what the PR changed.

My mantra generally is "code that is not tested does not work." It's not 100% true, but it comes within spitting distance.
Yeah, you're spot on. I'd argue that if you're coming into a situation with no tests, starting with the end to end is worth the implementation time, even if you get less resolution on what causes the errors. Unit testing still has value, but I get frustrated with folks who are caught up in some "Unit testing purity" thing.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

UnfurledSails posted:

Career advice question. Not sure whether I should post here, but I guess I'm not a newbie anymore?

After graduating from college I got hired by Amazon. I quit this year after working there for about 6 years, and now I feel rather lost career-wise. The work I did was pretty limited, designing and building in-house systems that trained/hosted ML models with AWS and Java and not much else, and the team I was in was a small one that was managed so badly that most of my time was spent trying to fix technical debt that was constantly increasing by new projects. We had absolutely no integration testing for years.

In fact soon after I quit the team stopped existing and all the systems I worked on for the past 6 years were handed to some other team lol. If I hadn't quit by then I would have at that point.

So now I look around and have no idea what to do. Presumably I can go get another Big Company job but I don't think I can pass a technical interview without studying for it for a while and I really don't have the motivation to do that only to get a job similar to the one I quit. I want to do something I give a drat about, and do it with some sense of freedom. I have to be near my sick mother so it has to be almost entirely remote as well. Money is not really a priority for me compared to quality of life and a sense of purpose at this point.

I feel like I have a massive lack of overall technical knowledge, to the point I question considering myself a dev sometimes. I was overly specialized in the very specific things I did at work, but in the wilderness of unemployment I realize what I know doesn't really translate to anything I can do on my own. I look at projects that go "yeah I built this using rear end, Fart, Gloop and Shart" and I have no idea wtf is going on, or how someone even gets to learn this stuff.

There's this weird isolation. Since I don't know anything I can't really be a part of a community that builds something, but in order to join said community I need to have a prerequisite level of experience I don't really have and don't know how to really obtain.

Sounds like job #1 is to figure out what you want to do. If you do think you want to stay in engineering, try doing and reading about other projects until you find something you like. Or maybe it wasn't the work you didn't like at the old place, but the poor team management. One you figure out what direction you want to go, you can start reading and doing your own projects to try that stuff out. There's really a ton of stuff out there for software development, but it takes your own time and motivation.

Finding a new job won't be trivial. Places are hiring less right now, and its not uncommon for folks to need to study for these interviews.

I went through a similar thing many years ago. I ended up joining some tech communities for learning and for just coding for charity. Spent some time volunteering at non-tech places too, just to not get lost in my head. That worked well for me.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Plorkyeran posted:

Why does it matter if someone wants to call their QA department unit tests?

If I ask "Do you have unit testing for all your software" and they answer "Yes" meaning "We have some guy who follows a script to test things out manually", then I'll write them off as liars or salespeople.

If they say "Yes" meaning they have an automated system doing end to end testing and covers the overall functionality of large chunks of code rather than testing 50 line functions or whatever, then that's cool and they are cool people.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
What are the AI/NN systems with the least oversight? Has it really solved any problems, or does it just get 90% of the way there, so it presents a bunch of close options and let the overseer pick/adjust the right answer?

Maybe something like bond rating, where nobody would really know if you were wrong 10% of the time?

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Cugel the Clever posted:

My state looks to offer up to $999 a week. Haven't actually checked if I qualify for that max amount, but that would actually nearly cover my rent + essential expenses (yay for being childfree and living frugally?). Already padded out my 3-month emergency savings to 6. I hope my coworkers are in a decent spot, though a lot are on visas... seems awfully stupid that the country would force all these smart people to leave just because of a temporary downturn.

Still uncertain how many times the axe will fall, but best to be prepared.

Remember you'll also want to pay for Cobra/health insurance, plus taxes do get taken out of unemployment (although you may get a larger refund than expected since you weren't paid for the full year).

Definitely start looking for a job, it's easier to find one when you have one.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Erg posted:

quote:

“Managers in software must write great software or it’s like being a cavalry captain who can’t ride a horse!” he tweeted in May.
How could the head of multibillion dollar companies really think this? Managers must be able to identify or understand great code is arguable, but if you're a manager, your job is to manage so other people can write. If you're writing code you are not doing your job (managing).

It's like saying great coaches must be great players, or editing is the same as writing.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
A long time ago, I took 20% TC cuts to go from a dead end tech area to a growing one (solo FPGA design to team microcontroller code), and I think it worked out well for me, but if I had it to do all over again I might have done one of the following:
- Looked more into what I would have needed to do to stick in my technical area. (ie what would it have taken to get into NVIDIA or something)
- Spent less time searching for a job and more time growing the skills it turns out I would have needed
- Tried to work the skills I wanted into the job I had
- Tried harder to ignore the dumb and insulting decisions happening at the company I wanted to leave

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
I have developed a system that will predict the outcome of a coin toss. It is 50% accurate, but I believe 100% accuracy is around the corner.

People ask me how I achieve such speed and ingenuity, and the answer is that I have an unrelenting focus on results, while the competition gets tied up in some sort of "fundamental understanding" which I suspect does not actually exist because nobody can explain it to me. Instead I've abstracted AI to a "black box" model of "stuff goes in" and "stuff comes out". When understood at this level, my enlightened mind can see that any stuff can come out of an artificial intelligence. Within two years, I believe we will have reached the point where an understanding of "principals" or "correct application of tools" will be shows as an academic scam, and true creativity comes from AI copying existing results.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

bob dobbs is dead posted:

diaconis has unfortunately beaten the living poo poo out of you

51% bro

https://statweb.stanford.edu/~cgates/PERSI/papers/dyn_coin_07.pdf

TLDR:

That paper's Conclusion posted:

If we have this much trouble analyzing a common coin toss, the reader can imagine the difficulty we have with interpreting typical stochastic assumptions in an econometric analysis.
...
The classical assumptions of independence with probability 1/2 are pretty solid.
Solid paper, will never read the middle 20 pages

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

LLSix posted:

Unlimited dumb people i.e. a computer?

It's a snappy quote, but I'm not sure what unlimited bad programmers bring to a team (other than bugs) that isn't already provided by having a computer that will follow instructions far more reliably and much faster than any number of dumb people.

I think you actually agree with the guy? It sounds like this might be a replacement for tools I've seen in the past where you would go through a highly structured process and it will write you a specific function or class, but this is more flexible and easier to use, but it will still require supervision and work to add the tough part in.

E: One weird ramification to this is what could it do to the employment pipeline? This tool could easily be better than most interns I've hired.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

redleader posted:

it won't need to, since an ai will write the code properly in the first place

All errors are caused by the users, never the code.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Literally remoting into a presentation to DoD and BLUF was on the 2nd slide.
It had like 400 words on it and I did not read.

But yes, the good way to write an email as someone who loves technical details is:
- Write and sort out all the awesome technical poo poo
- Go back to the top line and write your conclusion

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Che Delilas posted:

Most senior jobs don't actually demand anywhere close to what they list on the posting. Yeah sometimes algorithms will gently caress you over; I recommend putting a bunch of keywords on an "other skills" kind of section at the end of the resume for the robots to read, just tell something approaching the truth if a human asks you about a specific one. But I can also tell you that I've had better experiences with recruiters as a senior candidate than I did as a junior.

OTOH, some senior jobs are definitely "Baby come back, I know we can make things work out"

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Feral Integral posted:

Is there a good primer for aws, as far as what's expected for interviews that say they want in those skills? https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ is a lot of information

Pretty much everyone with something to say on this will have more cloud experience than me. I've been learning by doing, and what I've learned is that there's an absolute shitload of separate services, each of which do wildly different things, so your question is a bit like asking if there's a primer on Python Libraries. The main connective tissue is IAM, which sets up permissions for users and services.

It might be good for you to try doing a basic project on your own, like setting up a database in DynamoDB (or whatever), and a local script so you can read/write to it, and then make it more complicated by having a Lambda function that automatically adds a timestamp when a database element has been changed (this will probably involve IAM as well, but I haven't thought it all through). By that point you'll have your feet under you and you can start either looking into more relevant services, or play around with stuff like Terraform or other deployment tools, which is how organizations actually manage their cloud systems.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Working in tech is great, but it is also far enough from any kind of reality that absolutely idiotic decisions can get made and nobody will get an arm chopped off or anything. Sometimes, staring out the window and thinking is legitimate work, sometimes the phrase "We have an AI platform in the cloud that can make this much easier" is legit, and sometimes either one of those things are the sign of someone absolutely useless.

Tech isn't the only place where that's a problem, but it is the place that bills itself as a field that impacts the real world, but that's not visible at the engineering level.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

MrMoo posted:

I think it's more that there are people 10x worse, which is not that surprising if you take untrained staff or those with minimal experience. In fact in going down, rather than up, it's pretty hard to hit a limit of how bad people can be.

This is a huge part of it, I've definitely seen a lot of useless engineers. Also, making the right decisions is important, it wastes a lot of time to go in one direction, find the problem other folks were warning you about, and then go back and fix them the right way.

Is there some specific 10x story folks are arguing about? Because it sounds like a lot of this thread is arguing that some devs are not better than others, and I have no idea where that comes from.

Designing a hiring process to only hire 10x people sounds pretty much impossible. The most useless devs I know just grinded leetcode until they got the good jobs, and I'm sure they're still useless, even tho they aren't dumb.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Does systems engineering also suffer from this ambiguity? I see it mostly as system administration but somehow elevated, but I've also personally had that title as a person just generally connecting technical boxes and bullshit (I got the hell out of that job as just kind of landed on my in a re-org).

Depending on where you are I think systems engineers have a better rep because the title started way before software and has been applied to poo poo like building rockets or buildings or things where people don't brag about making it all work at the last minute.

It should mean "is the system well engineered, do all the pieces come together to get the actual job done for the customer"

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
It gets particularly bad because it's harder for a candidate to rate higher than "probably good", and everyone knows that once the new person is hired things are going to slow down while the new person gets up to speed, even if they're a huge improvement over the long term. So, if there's other fires going on, its easy for folks to stop pushing to move on hiring.
It's not the right thing to do but it happens.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
UI/UX is tough because it takes buy in from a lot of people who want to do different things, and there are a lot of people who will try to essentially craft a good sentence, but not pay attention to the paragraph, let alone where the whole arc could go. Like, filtering the data is over in the Analysis tab, but Mean Removal is in the Configuration tab.

If you can clearly and compellingly explain why you like a UI, and have some non-overlapping organizing principles, then you can have some really good poo poo. You'll still have to fight with folks who'd just rather not explain any changes to the customers, but you'll have some good poo poo.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
We're well past the point where "refactor" doesn't mean anything useful, right? At one point it just meant to change some variable names, which used to take some effort back in the stone age, but now it's a catchall for "don't expect any results".

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Google dings your salary if you work remote?

Artemis J Brassnuts posted:

After grousing about my pay the other day I went off so see what openings I might be able to fit at Google and there was an L3 job I was immensely overqualified for but with a median base pay that was higher than any job I’ve ever had. Does Google “rank up” job titles if they get an overqualified candidate or do I just need to keep an eye out for L5 jobs?
I don't know Google specifically, but the general rule for large (over 50 people) companies is all positions need to be advertised before they can be filled. There's also a rule that you can't reject a candidate for being over qualified, but that's a lot easier to work around. The root of both rules is to encourage open and fair hiring.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

The Fool posted:

berkeley says 50, san francisco says 100, the sba says "more than 1500 or 41.5mil revenue"
Yeah, "large" is not the right work, but I believe past 50 people you start being required to meet some do-not-discriminate hiring laws. Could be a state by state thing. For SBIRs, you're a small business if you're under 500 people.

Pollyanna posted:

You’re not wrong, I can’t take these things too personally. I might be building it up in my head. That said, I don’t have a lot of confidence in this particular person in terms of :airquote: engineering excellence :airquote:, so it’s a little hard to believe in the optimistic case.

Might be a result of all the fallout from organizational BS that’s burned out a couple engineers on my team and possibly myself as well.
Most important thing I learned is that engineering is a creative field and its essentially natural for engineers to take comments about their work personally. Once you (the general you) see this it starts helping the way you react and the way you treat other people's code. It feels dumb, but a part of that means the good before the bad in PR reviews.

Senior engineers should already know this, because part of being senior is helping other folks.

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StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
If people are going to reject a PR over style issues (and function length is a style issue) there should be a style guide they can point to.

Like, feel free to bring up preferences and "this is hard to read" but if you reject the PR over it, the issue should be real.

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