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OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Tarkus posted:

I think a big thing for China as it starts expanding its own technological industries will be to start enforcing copyright and IP laws, even for foreign countries and businesses. While they've been able to make a big market out of reverse engineering and copying foreign designs, that time is coming to a close. They will have their own industries, technologies and intellectual properties hampered and decimated by cheap knockoffs that they themselves encourage with no enforcement of these laws.

The current policy of mostly only enforcing laws when it benefits Chinese businesses seems to be working pretty well for them and will probably be relatively easy to expand if it starts becoming an actual issue for Chinese IP holders. Why bother with protecting foreign companies when they're throwing in all their money regardless?

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Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Typo posted:

Pretty much, the US for instance basically pirated the designs from the British textile industry for its industrialization

One of the major players was a guy who memorized all the designs and was able to replicate them when he returned to the US. He was also one of the first major employers of women. Interesting fellow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Cabot_Lowell_%28businessman%29

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

They might just be trying to protect their families (immediate + extended) and money. Either that or its some superspy mob hit poo poo (unlikely but entertaining).

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Arglebargle III posted:

I think that quote about deeper issues is bullshit, these people usually have obvious proximal causes that make them snap. "was unable to prevent his house from being demolished" followed by "we don't know what's under the surface" is a loving lol.

Seriously. No job, no family, sick, depressed, and then suddenly rendered homeless. Hmm clearly this is future shock syndrome and not, you know, snapping because you keep getting hosed over. Then again, Americans do pretty much the same thing in the US for all the school/workplace shooters. Keep going back in history and even slave revolts were considered incomprehensible and confusing too even though the causes are pretty obvious to modern people (slavery).

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc
The demographic cehanges they're engineering mean that Tibetans and Uigurs are already minorities in their own homelands, and that's not even getting to the "job creation programs" and similar projects they're setting up to try and move then breed them out by targeting young women, etc..

Also I doubt a democracy will actually do anything to protect minority groups considering the average Han Chinese is already super racist and probably cheers every action the government takes w/r/t minorities.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

China, as well as the other countries in East Asia, pad their employment statistics. This leads to inefficiency because businesses over hire and do not use many of the automation techniques most post industrial societies use. Automation and greater integration of computers would streamline production and probably up productivity. It would mean less jobs and corruption though so it will never happen until the population begins to decline. This is all theoretical too because Japan still operates on this model despite it being pointed out that it's not going to work anymore. Experts are saying the population should drop below 1 billion by 2050 but I've also read that China doesn't want this to happen for some reason. A net population drop is a good thing for China and would only increase its production levels.

If China can stay afloat financially and continue to expand infrastructure into the regions that have almost nothing, the rural poor have a chance at education and a job other than being unskilled labor. China is already reaching the point where factory labor is becoming "too expensive" and that's a sign that China is transitioning. If those areas don't get brought up, those people will be left behind even more than they already have been. What jobs will the rural poor have if the world is becoming less reliant on China for factory labor?

Honestly, you don't seem to have a firm grasp of the situation or economics in general. The first tip-off being your weird overgeneralization "the other countries in East Asia," the second being you not seeming to understand what the term padding statistics means, and the third being the ambiguous, non-standard use of the term "inefficiency."

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Fojar38 posted:

Doesn't Japan also have a problem in that for a country known for producing high-tech goods its management style is still surprisingly low-tech? Like, "I have to fax poo poo to my boss because he doesn't have a PC or e-mail?"

That's just based on an anecdote from a friend but if it's widespread I could also see it holding the economy back.

This is a derail, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing and the opposite, an obsession with instant feedback and accelerated decision cycles, may actually have a lot of downsides in cases where speed isn't critical since it doesn't really add anything and often results in information overload, poor decision-making, weird oscillations, etc.

Also there's still plenty of industries in the US where faxes and printed paperwork are the order of the day.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Ardennes posted:

That is fair, but certainly it is going to be a bit different than Japan where conglomerates were private and autonomous, if anything I think it is going to be even harder for China to change direction specifically because the state and the economy has become an amorphous blob of a patronage network.

However, it is also an issue simply because it is more opaque and harder to predict, a balance-sheet recession may already be happening but at this point many in the West are simply trying to figure out what variables would warn us of it happening.

Yeah the Japanese-style conglomerates also usually have deep links to government with a lot of informal control being exercised, but there's only a handful of them to deal with which offers fairly centralized control versus a more complex network. A lot of their behavior, especially in the early years, was also due to shared nationalism and cultural values as well as the usual common interests/background, which is easy for Americans to forget since American business culture (and China, and modern business cultur ein general) is much more FYGM.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

My Imaginary GF posted:

All of these, and:

-Buying men's fashion accessories
(Does a second-hand/resale market exist on these that isn't just knockoffs?)

-Sending your kids to America

What else?

Did we already cover Canadian houses?

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

ocrumsprug posted:

Out of curiousity, how long can China publish rubbish numbers before it doesn't matter what they say? Obviously they have more leeway since they aren't transparent, but I cannot imagine that the US (or anyone else) would get away for long lying about their GDP.

What is it about China that makes people say there won't be a crash until the government reports the crash?

The fact that a lot of very powerful people not just in China but all over the world might lose money if there is an intimation of instability there.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Al-Saqr posted:

Can someone give me a quick and dirty on how stock market crashes like this can just magically happen out of thin air? or did a major housing bubble burst or something even happen that I missed?

The same way 400 pound people suddenly keel over from heart attacks magically out of fat air

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

EngineerJoe posted:

Yeah seriously, shorting is actually a good thing for a healthy market. Naked shorting is a whole different beast though.

Even ignoring that, the key term is "healthy market"

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Optimus Prime Rib posted:

And they did it for a second time today.

And the capital flight is only increasing.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

TheBuilder posted:

Like they actually had any occupants...

Hopefully this is true.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc
Either that or no more glass

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

A Bad King posted:

We'll be fine, but who are we going to sell the durable goods to during a Chinese civil war?

I know it's not actually going to happen, but for real a broken up China divided along racial and cultural lines would be a net good for the Chinese and the world.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Morrow posted:

Ethnic Cleansing with Chinese Characteristics would be incredibly, incredibly bad. Like, it would redefine global politics and economics.

That's bad?

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Shadoer posted:

Would anyone be dumb enough to actually try that?

Yes, Europe.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

drilldo squirt posted:

Why is green bad? Trees are green, as are other plants.

Exactly. Disgusting peasant poo poo, not like beautiful concrete and red lacquer.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Fojar38 posted:

Calling NK a nuclear power is pretty generous.

Also NK is at least lead by a bunch of controlling strongmen, Pakistan is almost a failed state. One of the reasons the US has taken such an interest in the area is because of said near-failed state status plus nukes.

NK is ethnically homogeneous and is relatively socially stable, all things considered. On top of the typical regional political rivalries and class-conflicts you see in any country, India is a simmering mass of religious, ethnic, and caste/clan conflicts which explodes into violence pretty regularly.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

computer parts posted:

It's more like a making GBS threads field.

Remember, only like 30% of India's population is considered urbanized (this is opposed to ~50% in China).

Being urbanized doesnt seem to be proof against street making GBS threads, if China is any example

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Cultural Imperial posted:

ITT no one has heard of institutional investors

Also we learn the value of an undergraduate economics minor.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

ohgodwhat posted:

Well it's not exactly like you've said why borrowing is bad, just that you're morally opposed to it.

I agree, usury is a sin.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

BrandorKP posted:

Don't know if it's in the papers yet. I'm hearing: No more inbound or outbound hazardous containers allowed in/out of Tianjin.

Barn door status: closed

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Krispy Kareem posted:

Hey, I admit I'm not rational in my hatred of deficits and Ross Perot would probably have been a terrible President. My concern on SS is primarily that money taken in now for the program is used to fund other things that may or may not be necessary. When the time comes that payments outstrip revenue (probably around 2020) we'll need to pay that not from the mythical SS Trust Fund, but via the general budget that is already hundreds of billions in the red. Hence more debt - which may not be as cheap to service as it currently is.

So yes, it's all money trading hands within the government. But it still represents a very real expense that needs to be paid when the time comes. Or we'll just cut SS benefits by a third - which will happen right around the time most of us Goons retire.

It's also not rational to pull numbers out of thin air.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Coylter posted:

As if every other human on earth isn't the product of over 5000 years of culture...

Europeans just spawned out of the sea 2000 years ago.

The Carolingian dynasty lasted longer and was more stable than any Chinese dynasty.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Raenir Salazar posted:

At a glance this is "lol no".

The original claim was HRE.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Daduzi posted:

2. The quality of research being produced is pretty horrible. Most university faculty have never been properly trained in research methodology. PhD programs here are something of a joke, and masters programs a really unfunny joke. To make things worse, Hu Jintao's brainchild of funding universities purely on the basis of research output has created serious perverse incentives. Since universities are funded on how much research they produce, departments are funded on how much research they produce, so staff are promoted on how much research they produce. The result is that it's not uncommon for faculty to need to publish 6 papers a year to get/keep professorial positions. And anyone who's ever done research will tell you that at that rate the research isn't going to be much good.

Corners are cut left right and centre, topics are chosen on the basis of how easy they will be to churn out (rather than how important they might be), and blatant academic dishonesty is commonplace. Most of the research being made is either replicating results from elsewhere, putting existing research into a "China context", collating someone else's data, or doing reviews or summaries of research. Now all of these can be useful, but they're not likely to lead to a revolution in innovation in China

China seems pretty much what you'd expect from a country run by engineers.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Grand Fromage posted:

And even in cities the policy had all kinds of loopholes, at least relatively recently. I teach high school and there are a lot more only children than there were among my peers in the US, but there are quite a few who have siblings. Certainly more than you'd expect in a country that supposedly had a one child policy. :buddy:

There are a few ways around it that I know of:

1) If your first kid is a girl, there's a decent chance you can get permission for a second because girls are useless.
2) If your first kid has some sort of birth defect or mental issue, same thing. One of my students is a girl and her parents had her pretend to be mentally ill, and bribed a doctor to confirm the diagnosis, and thus got permission for another kid.
3) Just pay the fine if you have the cash. It's not nothing but if you're reasonably well off it's not a huge deal either.
4) If you're a minority (Hui, Yi, etc) the policy doesn't apply.

I believe enforcement is done at a local level, so if you're poor and live in an area where the guy is new or ambitious in trying to hit his figures, they might send in the goon squad to drag you off. But if you're rich and/or live in an area where the numbers are ok or the guy is good at faking it then it's a fine and that's it. Chinese local governance in general is obsessed with semi-arbitrary metrics for advancement.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Freezer posted:

When you're manipulating the numbers at will, does it even matter?

Verisimilitude. Don't want to break the reader's immersion

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

CommieGIR posted:

Nah, they'd just use their golden parachutes and flee like HP's ceo did.

Can't flee if you get disappeared to a private prison for a while.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Krispy Kareem posted:

I don't know if shoes follow the same trends as other clothing/textiles. There might be more involved supply chains that make it difficult to just switch countries like you can with most apparel.

For right now almost all shoes are made in China. I can't think of any other product so completely dominated by one country.

Vietnam is growing these days. For instance, Nike has a plant there and I think like 40+% of their output is from Vietnam now. Compared to like 30% from China. The rest is mostly Indonesia, and then a tiny amount from latin america.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jan 20, 2016

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Squalid posted:

Why would political liberalization increase or support economic growth? Could the state owned industry be reformed/privatized and corruption decreased without democratization or the end of single party rule?

Yeah ironically a lot of the China's problems arguably stem from the fact that the central government's actually not powerful enough where it matters - stuff like rule of law and policy implementation - which makes it hard for them to do anything and scares off legitimate business.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Krispy Kareem posted:

I didn't realize Vietnam was taking that much of a bite out of China. I guess it makes sense with the new trade pact and American support for Vietnam and the Philippines against China.

All I know is trying to find shoes made somewhere other than China is ridiculously difficult. I've just had to accept that my English shoes are at least made in a country once dominated by England.

Dunno, a lot of decent shoes are still made outside China, too. Spain is popular, and there's a lot of English shoemakers who still make stuff in England - Charles Tyrwhitt, Herring, Loake 1880, etc. In the US Allen Edmonds is still around. If anything, it's actually hard to find a decent good quality shoe that is made in China.

Yeah shoes cheaper than that (<$300) are hard to find not made in China but my answer to that is don't buy cheap lovely shoes that are less than $300, it's a waste of your money anyway.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 20, 2016

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Smilin Joe Fission posted:

Not to derail too much, but I've always found it hilarious that Buick out of all the GM nameplates is the one that really took off in China. Apparently the public image of Buick is the exact opposite of what it means to a lot of Americans nowadays. Rather than being seen as essentially a car for the 70+ age group that likes GM but can't afford a Cadillac, it's seen as this cool edgy brand favored by the new rich, business/tech elites, and of course ordinary people who want to project that image.

I think the history there is that Buick was popular in China back in the 40s and 50s. The popular story you hear in China is that the last Emperor of China drove a Buick, and then after the revolution that car passed on to Mao's number two Zhou Enlai. When GM came back to China in the 90s, they knew the brand had cachet and started making Buicks there. For a lot of government officials and businessman types who needed to buy a Chinese-made car for political reasons, it was the best/only luxury car available at the time, so they all bought them and since those are the people who got rich in the ensuing liberalization the Buick brand came with them.

Also Buick made boring, super-soft luxobarges, which are now passe in the US but the Chinese still love them, especially considering a lot of people in China are chauffered around anyway and many people are proud that they own a car but don't know how to drive.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Krispy Kareem posted:

Buick is marginally improving their image. My wife drives one, but it's still kind of an old person car. It reminds me if I leave my blinker on.


Pay enough and you'll get artisanal footwear hand crafted by a blind master cobbler with leather so soft it's like you crossed a cow with a puffy white cloud. I just wish there was a middle ground. $50 shoes? Definitely made in a sweatshop. $150 shoes? Still made in a sweatshop. $300 shoes? Maybe not made in a sweatshop.

I have heard that there's a massive difference in quality when you get up to the $300 range. I'm not sure if I like my shoe styles enough to want them to last a lifetime though.

Cheap shoes look terrible. Buy nice shoes, it's not like dress shoe fashions change that fast.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Vladimir Putin posted:

Nice dress shoes for 200 is about right. Heck even nice sneakers go above 100-150.


What? You would pay more for shoes made by a blind person?

If a blind guy is making shoes, he must know something we don't

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Franks Happy Place posted:

Especially when China just announced 400 billion RMB in quantitative easing. Not one post about that. :allears:

Seriously, shut the gently caress up about this pointless historical pissing contest, nobody cares.

Here, I summarized the relevant parts for you guys:

the JJ posted:

Again, it's nothing to do with Chinese governments being great or anything. They needed the silver because they invented paper money but hosed up by printing too much.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Fojar38 posted:

Honestly the fact that the Chinese announce their yearly growth rate the first week of January should have been raising red flags for years.

The red flag is always up, in China

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Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Fojar38 posted:

Why are people moving their money from soon-to-be superpower and dominant nation of the future China to has-been declining power of yesterday America

The market is irrational :shrug:

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