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Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
They managed to block a bus that probably came back later when those people weren't there.

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Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

StandardVC10 posted:

It kind of depends on what mood I'm in how many people have been shot that day, to be honest.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
In actual good news, CPUC told SDG&E to gently caress of trying to charge rate payers for the 2007 wildfires:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-sdge-wildfirecaseruling-20171130-story.html

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Newsom is the likely next governor and he's apparently been very pro single payer. Are any of the other candidates?

We have a larger economy than the UK. If they can do single payer we can

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
I think Newsom has actually been pretty vocal in his support: http://capitolweekly.net/nurses-backed-newsom-ramp-fight-universal-health-care/

I mean he seems like a robot but some robots are not evil, right?

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Next we just need a change to exclude rental properties from prop 13 which might actually help the real estate market.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
It's hosed. Any transfer of ownership should cause a reassessment, but if they're not going to do that, at least have one for the people who rent out the property.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

So this means Jerry Brown is gonna get to appoint a replacement, right?

Only if Hunter resigns, I think. Considering they're calling it political I don't think that will happen for a few days until he sees he's turbofucked.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
They're was also something on ballotpedia that was talking about the backer for Prop 8 happens to be some group that has a pending lawsuit that would be affected by the outcome of this case, FWIW

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
The scenario also presupposes there's only one rent controlled apartment becoming available at a time, which is certainly not going to be the case.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Some jerk knocked over my Ammar Campa-Najjar sign. So now I have two.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
In San Diego, there's a district judge named Gary Kreep. He filed legal challenges for President Obama's birth certificate and defended the Minutemen. So if you're down here, vote his rear end out.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
In other news, every Yes on 6 jackass I've talked to complains about the extra $50 it's gonna take to fill their tank each year. Then they complain about the bullet train.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
But you don't understand, the bullet train has to slow down on cities.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Don't worry, they'll just vote in another Republican when he goes to jail. At least there won't be any threat of him being allowed back in the House now.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
If you look at the election map for CA all of those conservative dickbag inland districts voted down Prop 1- but sure it's Republicans who love veterans.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Just nationalize the CA power companies already.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
The CPUC has long been complicit with the investor-owned utilities.

We're never going to get rid of SDG&E and PG&E, but we should demand our representatives help out CCAs:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-community-power-20180608-story.html

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

San Diego is probably the most rightwing metropolitan area in the state. If the Republicans are losing grassroots-level offices like Assemblymen and city councilors and civic judges here then they're in real goddamned trouble.

So you've just never been to Orange County or...?

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
The main thing to me is securing the land. Eventually we're gonna want to build a hsr/hyperloop/whatever and the land costs aren't going to go down over time.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

ratbert90 posted:

Austin sounds awful. I’ve been in Texas multiple times and have never seen any reason to live there.

Austin is fine, but it's still in Texas, which disqualifies it from being good.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
I can't believe they're opening all this poo poo up again and expecting a different result.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
California Politics Thread: We regret to inform you the algorithm is racist

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Still Dismal posted:

Sure, but it’s not like judges don’t have plenty of their own biases that could influence pre-trial detention decisions. I don’t think there’s any way around the human element and the potential for bias, there’s no ONE WEIRD TRICK to eliminate structural racism. The certainly includes algorithms which are coded by people, but the idea of using them doesn’t strike me as obviously ridiculous or bad.

Honestly the entire thing is why the referendum system is loving dumb in the first place, an ordinary voter shouldn’t have to read up on algorithmic bias or machine learning or whatever to make an informed choice here.

You don't have to read up on the algorithm bias or whatever to know cash bail REALLY disproportionately targets the poor and minorities. It would be great if we were able to vote and say, "Well, the rich are the most likely to hop on a plane, so maybe target them as a flight risk", but that's not what's on the ballot.

Plus gently caress bail bondsmen. I've always felt they're the skeezier cousin of check cashing places, and that's really saying something.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
The algorithm is just part of determining a pretrial risk- a judge is involved, for example:

https://policylab.stanford.edu/media/improving-california-bail.pdf

This link shows some of the weightings that the algorithm might use.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Having read the text of SB10, I still think it's a good change.

Almost all people charged with misdemeanors must be released within 12 hours. The only exceptions area a few repeat offender misdemeanors (multiple DUIs, etc) and all felonies are given a risk level. Low risk folks are released. Medium risk folks are judged on a case by case basis and can argue for themselves. High risk folks are held.

And there's built-in review of the analysis tools:
1320.24.

 (a) The Judicial Council shall adopt California Rules of Court and forms, as needed, to do all of the following:

(1) Prescribe the proper use of pretrial risk assessment information by the court when making pretrial release and detention decisions that take into consideration the safety of the public and victims, the due process rights of the defendant, specific characteristics or needs of the defendant, and availability of local resources to effectively supervise individuals while maximizing efficiency.

(2) Describe the elements of “validation,” address the necessity and frequency of validation of risk assessment tools on local populations, and address the identification and mitigation of any implicit bias in assessment instruments.

"The proposals require that any risk assessment tools be transparent about the factors and algorithm used to decide a defendant’s risk, and mandates these tools be validated regularly. Tools that show any implicit or explicit bias must not be used, and cases involving intimate partner violence or sexual assault require specialized risk assessment."

By eliminating the cash bail industry, you eliminate a powerful special interest. With the reporting requirements, amending the legislation seems easier than submitting a new proposition.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
After talking with my parents and hearing how "they" are busing in violent antifa rioters to protests to kill hundreds of people (including children) and "take power", I'm glad I live in California where their votes don't count.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Vox Nihili posted:

Apparently 19 is expected to result in a net increase in property tax revenues at least (I guess the new limited right to transfer the tax advantage to another home is outweighed by the restriction on inheritance to a single residence). As a result I am considering Yes on 19 since it might trim back the landed aristocracy thing just slightly (I.e., that aspect is limited to a single inherited residence that is easy to transfer rather than a big pile of residences that must be held in perpetuity). Anyone else have thoughts on this?

It's definitely mixed, but if you look at who's supporting it- it's two giant realtor orgs.

The main thing is that it lets people 55 and up carry over their property tax valuation to a new home- even a bigger one (the main change in Prop 19- they could already do this for an equal or lesser value home) And that's the thing. Wealth is generally concentrated in people over 55. 55 year olds aren't the poor elderly. They will buy up larger homes and retain the lower property tax. This gets realtors more money. It also diminishes the supply of larger homes that bigger families need. Grandma can afford to buy that 5 bedroom home for herself, which takes that home away from a growing family.

So it perpetuates inequities for homeowners who bought years ago and who can parlay that advantage into bigger homes.

On the positive side, it helps get rid of the loophole where kids inherit from their parents and use the property as a rental.

So it's a question of how we resolve the loopholes. Do we close the one and open another, or do we wait for a different constitutional amendment to fix the inheritance/rental property loophole.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I want Prop 13 gone, and I want handouts to olds just because they are olds stopped. However, old people are notorious for sizing down, not up. They may want gold-plated faucets with ruby eyes, but they don't want a lot of bedrooms; the more space, the more house that needs cleaning. Like, it's an entire home-marketing category. "Perfect for empty-nesters!"

Remember, under current law, they can already do this once if the house is of equal or lesser value. The change would allow this to happen up to three times, and would allow it to be applicable to larger houses.

It's also of note that they put the age requirement at 55, which isn't exactly only targeting grandmas who want to downsize. That could be mom and dad who have two teenagers in the house. 55 is a decade or more from retirement for most people.


Sydin posted:

Baiscally it's a win-lose for us, win-win for realtors.

This. It's not a poo poo proposal, but the realtor special interest groups will likely get special benefits from the increased movement in the real estate market.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Arsenic Lupin posted:

My understanding is that over-55s generally downsize number of bedrooms and size of yard. They aren't camping out in the 5-bedroom houses, because they don't want to deal with all that empty extra space. Again, you can see this in real estate ads and articles; the "dream retirement home" is one that's easier to maintain than the house you raised your family in. More luxuries, but less space.

I definitely think that's true for older folks. I'd love to see the statistics for different age brackets.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

MAKE NO BABBYS posted:

They sure can, which is why cash bail is also bad and something that ought to be eliminated.


The N. CA chapter of the ACLU is neutral on 25 but rescinded their endorsement of the proposition, S. CA ACLU endorses a No vote. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-southern-california-proposition-endorsements-2020-election

It's an odd argument that we shouldn't vote to get rid of a known discriminatory industry just because the replacement is also potentially discriminatory just because an ideal solution isn't on the ballot.

In fact, if you believe that government is an effective tool to remedy systemic discrimination, then you should be in favor of taking as much of the power out of the hands of private industry to do so.

The fact that 25 has built-in measures to do self-reporting and correcting is a real plus. And a racist judge is gonna be a racist judge no matter what.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

mazzi Chart Czar posted:

If the algorithm / chart is used, will the general public be able to see it, and make changes to it?

The algorithm is reviewed by the Judicial Council. I suspect that review will be public knowledge.
Also:

1320.25.

 (a) The panel of experts and judicial officers as set forth in paragraph (7) of subdivision (e) of Section 1320.24 shall designate “low,” “medium,” and “high” risk levels based upon the scores or levels provided by the instrument for use by Pretrial Assessment Services in carrying out their responsibilities pursuant to Section 1320.9.

(b) The Chief Justice shall designate four individuals with specific subject matter expertise on scoring pretrial risk assessment instruments and three judicial officers with criminal law expertise, one of whom shall be the chair, to serve on this panel. At least one of the experts must have expertise in the potential impact of bias in risk assessment instruments in addition to scoring risk assessments.


Of other note- unless the person is accused of a DUI or violent crime, or has already been a flight risk, if they're charged with a misdemeanor, they must be released.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Bodhidharma posted:

I found a good article that outlines some of the strongest arguments in favor and in opposition to Prop 25. A lot of this has been echoed in the thread already, but it's still a good read.

One issue that I haven't seen brought up with voting no on Prop 25 is that it would constitutionally prohibit the legislature from passing similar legislation, so it could make passing the elimination of bail much more difficult.

https://www.courthousenews.com/the-strange-bedfellows-of-proposition-25-and-californias-fight-to-end-cash-bail/

This is a great article that's very well balanced. There's good reason for the opposition to the bill, absolutely. That said, these parts really jumped out at me:


Further complicating matters is a California Supreme Court case that could invalidate cash bail statewide. The case centers around retired shipyard worker Kenneth Humphrey, whose $350,000 bail on a charge of robbing an elderly neighbor of $7 led to a landmark appellate court ruling that requires judges to consider a person’s ability to pay when setting bail.

While the high court has yet to review the case it agreed to hear more than two years ago, it recently ordered in the interim that judges should consider a defendant’s financial status and avoid keeping people in jail because they cannot afford bail. The court could be awaiting the outcome of the referendum, as the case would be moot if SB 10 takes effect.


and




"Assemblymember Rob Bonta, a Democrat from Alameda who co-wrote SB 10, said the opposition from progressives has been “ironic and perplexing.”

“We can make improvements. If Prop. 25 passes we can address the issues that have been raised by the left. We can root out biases in the risk assessment tool. We can even restrict the role of judges. We can’t do that if it fails because there is law that says if a referendum fails then the Legislature cannot pass anything that is essentially the same,” Bonta said, adding that the opposition is “looking for something that is better, but arguably, we’d be barred from doing that as a Legislature.”

Lewis from the Anti-Recidivism Coalition shares Bonta’s concern. “Constitutionally, we won’t be able to end cash bail,” he said.

Lewis also worries the Legislature could lose the political will to enact any additional reforms. “The elected officers who have supported so many criminal justice reforms in the past will take this as a message from the people of California that we’ve gone too far,” he said."

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

This is one of the nuances I learned about from the JusticeLA video that Jaxyon posted earlier. One of the panelists is with Human Rights Watch and has been a public defender for decades, and he made the point that one of the biggest reasons cash bail is a problem is upstream from the bail industry itself -- prosecutors & judges are the ones that request and use discretion"to set bail, with the implicit rationale that it results in faster guilty pleas and lets the judiciary get through their court calendar faster.

If 25 passes, prosecutors and judges will have even more discretion over pre-trial incarceration and just as much incentive to keep incarceration levels at the same rate, to get guilty pleas faster, to work through more cases, and so on. And while it may weaken the bail industry (although the HRW guy was skeptical of that given the industry's pivot towards pretrial surveillance and its ties to the broader financial industry -- I'm not equipped to assess this with any rigor, so I'm left taking it at face value) it will also expand the market for algorithm vendors which is its own type of predatory/unjust industry and also increase funding for probation officers to oversee pretrial supervision (i.e. more money for cops)

Note - I am far from an expert in this area and may be getting some of the details wrong, if so please correct me!

One thing I would love to see is the breakdown of percentage of misdemeanors versus felonies in CA, because under the prop, almost all people charged with misdemeanors MUST be released within 12 hours.

Looking at something like: http://www.lacourt.org/division/criminal/pdf/misd.pdf, it's easy to see there are lots of misdemeanors that have pretty exorbitant bail numbers. And with cash bail, I think judges have the ability to set bail even higher, which exacerbates the problem that is trying to be solved.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Cup Runneth Over posted:

Then don't have any illusions about what you're getting. You're getting the kind of dude who pals around with white nationalist militia members and openly identifies as a Blue Dog Democrat.

Living in the 50th is accepting that there are a lot of lovely people here. Every day I drive home from work and there's a dozen Trump supporters hanging out on the freeway overpass.

As lovely as Campa-Najjar is, Darrell Issa is worse.

Campa-Najjar pointed out his opponent former Congressman Issa also participated in a DEC livestream this week, criticizing comments the Republican made about "Black Lives Matter" and loosely organized anti-fascists known as "Antifa."

“These organizations have not only been doing destruction but they’ve been empowering them, because that is part of their agenda,” Issa told the group’s founder.

“Darrell Issa just said the ‘Black Lives Matter’ movement, the whole movement, anyone who believes we need racial justice in this country, is a criminal inciting violence and dangerous and trying to take away your freedoms. And I think that’s at best, an overstatement of what’s happening,” said Campa-Najjar.


Living in a district with regressive shitheads means choosing the lesser of two evils due to only the top two candidates getting on the ballot.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
I was trying to get a good sense of felony vs. misdemeanor arrests in CA. I found:
https://www.ppic.org/publication/felony-arrests-in-california/

In November of 2014, Prop 47 reclassified many lower-level drug and property offenses from felonies to misdemeanors. Partly as a result of this policy change, the felony proportion of arrests dropped to 26% for the next two years.

With prop 25, that would mean that at 2014 rates of crime, 74% of crimes (minus those certain violent crime/existing flight risk folks) would result in the person charged being released in 12 hours.

To me, the removal of misdemeanor bail is HUGE. These are the crimes that would really have bail disproportionate to the offense, and which could cripple someone financially if they have to pay a bondsman (or sit in prison!)

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

Wicked Them Beats posted:

I believe the argument being made is that instead of properly staffing they'll just start moving to close/consolidate dialysis centers, and so the end result will be an overall loss of jobs for groups like nurses. I don't know how valid this argument is.

Edit: and mentioned above, not a union, a trade association.

Come on man. All these regulations cost money. The company needs to tighten our belt and that means everyone makes sacrifices *lights cigar with a $20 bill instead of $100*

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
I have enjoyed flipping off the solo chud overpass person in Escondido. gently caress that guy.

Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine

CopperHound posted:

I though prop 18 would be the least controversial of the bunch. Once again this stupid state continues to surprise me.

E: I don't particularly care strongly for it, I just would have guessed it would be a solid "Sure, I guess I don't see anything wrong with that."


Olds don't want youngs changing things

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Glass of Milk
Dec 22, 2004
to forgive is divine
Apparently that's early voting so in person voting will probably push Issa over

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