Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

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Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Lord Twisted posted:

I decided to hit up the Oxford Street plaza tomorrow at 10 to play a taster game with my buddy, as I'm friends with one of the staff members there and it makes him look good to book people in for that kind of thing. Will give feedback on the psyker phase - we both decided to include a psyker and a flyer so we can see what's up.

I'd suggest a Psyker for both side, if you can. I did it versus a SM player with no Psyker whatsoever, and his phase was seeing which of my five powers he would throw his two dice against and hope for sixes.

# ¿ May 23, 2014 18:46

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 15:27

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

NTRabbit posted:

Do you mean reduces the number of times it is used, or temporally? Because the last thing 40k needs is to take more time.

It takes a little more time - you have to generate the dice, decide which powers to use, how many dice to throw, then roll them, while your opponent has to weigh throwing their own Deny the Witch dice. How much it slows things down depends on how many Psykers you each have, but I don't feel it will add more than a few minutes on. I mean, you already had to deal with "Target, Manifest, Deny" and this just expands on it some.

It also slows down how many powers are used, and how often. If I have 12 dice - 9 ML, and 3 on the roll - and 9 powers, I can't promise that they all go off, and have to either try throwing one die for Smite or using that die to force through Iron Arm with 2 or 3 dice. No more "have power, use that poo poo regardless."

# ¿ May 23, 2014 19:13

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Let's do some real talk for a minute...

So I've started buying my DKoK army, with a full platoon and 12 Russes in the mail, as well as designs for a Baneblade, a Hydra, some Chimeras, etc...

I've been made to feel really guilty for going into heavy mech for a traditionally footslogging army. The DKoK fluff really doesn't suit what I plan to build...

How horrible would it look, and how stupid would I feel (if DKoK gets an update) - if I painted my DKoK army as Armageddon Steel Legion?

There are noticeable differences, the lack of goggles, the length of the coat, the helmet... And I don't want to do a deep conversion on all of the models, but it seems like this could give me a cool and unique army. But would it look right? Would I just hate myself for not painting them as Krieg?

It would look fine, but seriously, they are your plastic space barbies. I'm sure the DKoK has a tank battalion or four, and regardless, no one would really give a poo poo.

There is some really old fluff, by the way, of Krieg tankers - some Greater Daemon rips open a Russ, and the Commander calmly empties his pistol into the ammo storage, blowing them all to hell. It's rad as gently caress.

# ¿ May 23, 2014 20:31

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

SUPER NEAT TOY posted:

'Should' and 'would' are very different things. Ideally yes, but it would not surprise me if the answer they give you is 'forge a narrative experience as best you can with the rules you have!'.

When I played my game of 7th, it was Daemons versus Marines. Very cut and dry. I convinced some buddies that showed up to play 7th as well, it would be fun!

They had Grey Knights and Nids. I immediately regretted my suggestion.

# ¿ May 24, 2014 20:47

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Master Twig posted:

Well you see, the psyker has lower lead, so he may not be the highest in the squad anymore. Also you have to make a lead check if you perils, and that makes it more likely they get the bad result.

This is just as good because

I'm a little worried that any FAQ we get would not buff Shadow in the Warp, since the last White Dwarf had a blurb that was "Perils near a Synapse Creature is going to suck!" That seems to indicate that, yeah, it might just be a penalty to LD. I mean, that's alright, but it's certainly underwhelming.

On my end, I'm worried about what - if anything - they do with Daemon of Tzeentch. +3 LD when casting now does absolutely nothing. Aegis on Grey Knights does nothing as well, though that could easily be changed to Admantanium Will.

# ¿ May 27, 2014 04:23

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

So Daemon of Tzeentch didn't get updated, which is a bummer, but you can now take an Exalted Flamer on foot! It can't buy any gifts, and it is inexplicably Infantry, and not Jump Infantry like all other Flamers, but it comes with the D3 Lascannon and AP3 Torrent for free. I think they might be alright to take, if you aren't going all in on Psyker dice - sit them with some Horrors moving up for protection, let the Horrors fling magic at something, and then either zap a tank or burn out some troops. Not saying it will be competitive, but it is a cool little unit.

# ¿ May 27, 2014 19:04

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Hollismason posted:

No, it didn't work that way, this was a huge argument. Just your primary not allied detachment got this. It doesn't matter it's a old rule.

Uh. Pink Horrors and Heralds of Tzeentch do have shooting attacks.

Which require their own dice and aren't nearly as strong as summoning more units most of the time. Wow! 2d6 S5 shots that can give the unit FNP! And it takes two Warp Charges to have a decent chance of manifesting it! And it is easier to deny than a Blessing or Conjuration!

I like Tzeentch, but the psychic shooting isn't really that uniquely brutal. If I want, on average, 7 S5 shots from a unit, I could just take Fire Warriors.

# ¿ May 28, 2014 00:21

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Look, I think Phyresis is a cock, but for loving real, he's spot on. Summoning is strong, but any decent constructed list is going to to loving kick your poo poo in while you spin your dick trying to make units. I mean just look at this -

Phyresis posted:

I'm trying to avoid posting in this terrible thread but what the gently caress? If you can't wipe a few units of pink horrors off of the board you probably deserve to lose. Aren't you an Eldar player? This is a trash gimmick list and everyone's losing their minds about psykers like the fundamentals of the game have changed or something. Shoot their loving units. Did you all lose all of your guns or something?

and think it over. If someone puts down a bunch of blocks of Horrors, drag out a Manticore or Thunderfire or whatever and pulp the dumb T3 5++ assholes to a paste. I love this summoning poo poo, because if anything, it encourages people to bring more anti-infantry while tanks, at the same time, pull people into taking AP 1/2 stuff unless they can rattle a tank to death with glances. It's going to shake things up, and I bet that within a few months, it will be a gimmick you beat by having checked off a box on your list going "can I handle a bunch of dumb assholes that just summon more dumb assholes, who have essentially no armor, are T3, and sit out of LOS."

# ¿ May 28, 2014 02:31

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Hollismason posted:

Yes, I've pointed out the Barrage eats their loving lunch. D-Cannons, Mortars! (Seriously take Mortars now Imperial Guard), Thunderfire , Manticore, etc.. etc..

Also super fast armies can just ignore them with impunity and shoot the poo poo out of them, as it's a rather slow army.
Eldar specifically on Jetbikes can seriously mess the army up.
Anything Alphastrike for example can mess it up.

A huge boost in power terms to being able to Double up on HQs now with Combined Forces, make Tyranids a beast in some instances
Fliers give them trouble.

It's why a all summoning army isn't that great However having some Heralds and Horrors summoning Daemons while you as the Chaos Player do your thing is pretty keen. Or take a stupid Fortification like 3 Void Shields or a Bastion.

This I'll agree with. I like the idea of a Herald looking over his shoulder and dumping Plaguebearers onto an objective - that's quite nice.

# ¿ May 28, 2014 02:46

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Does the Hemlock Wraith Fighter get Psychic Shriek? It has one power from Telepathy. I think it does get the Psychic Focus as well, but I'm not sure if that is a bonus or overrides "this unit has just this power." If so, that's an alright buff to that thing.

# ¿ May 28, 2014 04:15

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Boon posted:

Might just make it worth taking actually.

Yeah, you can roll up and Shriek, then pummel them with the Heavy D-Scythes. Pretty decent at pummeling troops with solid armor. I like the idea of this thing buzzing in and making a Riptide poo poo itself and then murdering Broadsides with Distort. (Actual use - Riptide takes a wound after Invulns, Broadsides are in cover and you don't roll sixes anyways.) That is, of course, if they qualify for it.

Hollismason posted:

Hemlock Fighter can summon Daemons...

How? They have one set power. Are they allowed to explicitly trade that in for a roll on an Eldar-allowed table? Am I missing something under the Psyker rules?

# ¿ May 28, 2014 05:29

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Phyresis posted:

e: Also Jesus Christ you loving clowns, read the loving rules before you have multiple page arguments about poo poo. Psykers that come with specific powers instead of generating randomly on the table don't ever get any other powers, they don't get the Primaris, they can't loving summon Daemons, SHUT THE gently caress UP ABOUT IT

Asking for clarification on one rule about four days into a new edition, getting two responses - multiple page argument. Gotcha. :rolleye:

AbusePuppy posted:

So Ahriman can cast a witchfire three times per turn now, which is actually pretty awesome. He's still expensive and kinda fragile and a bit of a derp, but he at least gets a decent warlord trait and he's one of the highest-level psykers in the game. Thanks to Chaos Psychic Focus, he actually ends up with five powers, which means (given perfect rolls and enough warp charge backing him up) you can spam out a hilarious fifteen witchfires in a single turn with him. pew pew pew!

I'm trying to figure out the best bunker for him, since I want to run him and am not that keen on him immediately imploding. I think a Rhino with him and a handful of mooks would be the most cost effective method, since he cap pop out the hatch and fry some chumps without really caring about any of the negatives, and the Rhino can close the distance if need be. Not the best unit, of course, but it would be worth a laugh in more relaxed games.

# ¿ May 28, 2014 08:00

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Magni posted:

Well, it's not Epic, but Panzer Corps:40k Edition sounds like a game worth trying.

Panzer Corp is a fantastic game (especially if you enjoy the old Panzer General series) which I have a ton of hours logged into. Should be a solid little game when it comes out - and knowing that company's model, if it sells well, we can expect buckets of DLC for it down the line. (There's like eighty bucks of DLC for Panzer Corp alone.)

# ¿ May 28, 2014 23:30

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

The big problem is that Overwatch is not what is prevent units from hitting CC. It can make it more difficult, sure, but Overwatch is not what is keeping Orks/Genestealers/Berserkers from getting into CC. Rather, the problem is that many armies can just sit there and obliterate them before they even reach their positions, and the methods most armies use to compensate suffer mechanically. Cover can be ignored and slows down units heading into assault doubly - both on the move and on the charge. Vehicles need to be assault transports, or else you aren't seeing CC before turn 3 at the very best, and many assault transports are either fragile or expensive. Outflanking and Deep Strike both net you a full turn of standing around with your dick in your hand as every Lasgun in a 24" radius zeroes in on you. Even mobbing up and walking up, saying hell to all that bunk about transports or cover, this is Warboss Pickett's WAAAAAGH across an open field, has models experience a conveyer belt effect where the first rank is cut down and the unit ends up with less movement overall.

Overwatch from a block of Necrons does not stop me from murdering them in CC - it's being shot to death by Annihilation Barges.

Fixing assault (so that all reasonably effective forms of assault are functional) would require overhauling a lot of the mechanics doing with movement and shooting.

# ¿ May 29, 2014 00:22

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Infinite Karma posted:

When I say "lovely assault units," I mean stuff like Berserkers and Genestealers. They can't get into assault reliably because they are slow, they are overkill against the pansies you want to assault (like AM Command Squads), and aren't good enough to beat actual good assault units head-to-head. It sucks that there are a bunch of "trap" choices in a lot of codexes, but the solution isn't to make assault better as a whole, it's to make the lovely units better, possibly by reducing their points costs, or by bringing in more effective delivery methods.

Nobody's complaining that their Assault Terminators or Canoptek Wraiths or Khorne Hounds or Nurgle Biker Lords are being shot off the board too easily. If you want to assault, you need a fast unit, and/or an assault transport. Or else, use a more versatile unit that can shoot on turns 1-3 and consider getting into assault on turn 3-4 as a bonus.

I specifically list those units because they've got such serious problems that keep them from playing with the big boys. Mechanical changes would keep Hounds of Khorne or Wraiths at the top of the heap - perhaps even make them a little better - but would turn those lovely units from traps into something more reliable. I'm also talking mechanical changes because, well, people are talking house rules, and it's a lot easier to scoop assault upward that to have a big book of "GUYS THIS IS HOW 40K REALLY IS" with "by the way, reduce the cost by X for like 20 different units" as an Appendix in the back. (This is not an endorsement of said home rules. Just play the game and maybe do one or two small things in a club, like 1" minimum charge and a mulligan on mission cards. Geez.)

Honestly, though, I'm puzzled why GW hasn't latched onto the concept of making models to specifically shore up issues with its core rules. Some sort of Assault Rhino (that looks different enough from a normal Rhino that it would be a pain to convert) that came out with a Dataslate and both Chaos and Loyalist versions would make lots of cash. $5 for the slate, $35 for the Rhino at least, and GW is rolling in cash from guys who want Death Company or whatever to get alive into position.

EDIT : Super Venomthrope! Like a Venomthrope, but T5 and you can't Ignore Cover on its bubble! Only $29.99!

# ¿ May 29, 2014 00:59

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

AbusePuppy posted:

In the fluff, a score or two of Marines (and their transports) is enough to conquer an entire planet. I don't think ten Guardsmen is really a good match, because while Marines deploy by the dozen or by the hundred, Guardsmen deploy by the million or by the billion.

Having a similar discussion the other day, our Tyranid player commented that "If that were the case, Tyranids should just be able to fill their entire deployment zone with models." He's not wrong.

The best way to address this would be a throw-away bit along the lines of "Infantry models typically represent several men (or Orks, or Gaunts) working together. Space Marines, of course, represent one Marine apiece - as is fitting for the DEFENDERS OF THE IMPERIUM."

Works well, mentally. Marine blazes away, pops an Ork - he just killed four dudes! Marine gets his poo poo kicked in - well, yeah, that one Ork that murdered him is actually four Orks stabbing him at once.

# ¿ May 29, 2014 21:44

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

DJ Dizzy posted:

ETC players are jerks. Stacking our terrain up like they just dont give a gently caress about it. gently caress.

ETC players? What's all this then? I am guessing some dudes are just wrecking your club's terrain because they are dumbasses?

# ¿ May 30, 2014 05:38

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Good call with using the drops that way. I'm probably gonna steer clear of them altogether. I'm now being labeled a "hyper-competitive math-hammering shitbag" in the local hams group, so gently caress it.

Yeah, I was going to suggest a middle of the road thing - Drop Pods score, but not on the first turn they land nor if they've lost a Hull Point, meaning that your enemy has to at least spend a little time working them over but doesn't have a 1 HP broken piece of poo poo scoring on Turn 5, or they only score as long as the dropped unit is alive, or something - but these guys sound like twats. poo poo, if these are casual games, they really have no excuse for being that salty about scoring Pods that they resort to bitter name calling.

# ¿ May 30, 2014 22:39

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

What's everyone think of awarding points at an event for lists that fulfill certain requirements? It would be difficult to tune correctly, and I'm not talking "hrm, your foot Eldar army with three Banshee choices was tabled turn 3, but it's fluffy so I guess this is a draw." I'm thinking more that, if you are awarded VP for every round, you check a box for fulfilling X requirement (two different Fast Attack, one unit of at least 50 points from every slot, etc) and net a bonus of VP. Not enough to turn a loss into a victory, but maybe a close game into a draw versus a list without the bonus VP, or tip a draw into a narrow win. The difficulty is balancing that correctly, and making sure that if VP carries over from game to game, that if a list that checks that lil box is facing one that did not at the final table, that the second list doesn't have to make up for a huge deficit in points. I'm thinking something like, in games where 25+ VP are at stake through three different objectives and various extras, 2-3 points would work. Not a bunch in game, but can tilt things, and if a tournament is four rounds, it's only an 8 point deficit at the end that a list without the requirement has to beat.

However, assuming the balance is hammered out correctly, players can weigh the cost-benefit of bringing in X, and if they want to bring a varied list for extra points or to go all in on what they normally run. Fulfilling the requirements of X would give them edge if they draw against another hard list, but maybe the original list would have notched down a win in the first place, you know? Ideally, it encourages people at least try out different units and lists.

The downside is that if a list is running the gimmick of the event naturally (two different Elites - Riptide and Crisis suits, so free points!) they're basically getting free points for playing what they normally play. However, I'm thinking this for a series of local tournaments, so you'd ideally see a rotation of requirements and avoid armies just netting those free points consistently. Sure, Tau might nab it easy one tournament, but the next might be two different Fast Attack units and the Chaos player with Spawn and a Helldrake is nabbing those points. Worst that happens is that people just blow off the requirements and win by so much that those extra points are pointless, but you'd at least see more variety at the middle and bottom tables.

How reasonable/godawful is this?

tl;dr - give a few VP to players that fulfill a gimmick, and make sure it is useful for tiebreakers and final positions but not enough that it unbalances things. does this blow or rule?

edit - this isn't some sort of game changing proposal, but would you think it cool/fine at the local club as a bit of variety in your tournaments?

Von Humboldt fucked around with this message at 18:54 on May 31, 2014

# ¿ May 31, 2014 18:52

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

CyberLord XP posted:

Isn't that literally what a comp score is?

Comp has a lot of negative connotations associated with it. I say "comp" and people want to murder poo poo to death. Not only that, comp tends to penalize players, either directly or indirectly, pretty heavily for stepping outside the bounds of what is considered acceptable. This is more of a bonus for players who want to try out new things, and since it rotates, it's not going to be stifling. Like I said, the tricky part is balance - I don't want the top table to be a list that hits the requirements versus one that does not, and the list that does not has a huge hill to climb, or for players to feel they have to try out whatever the flavor of the week is for the event. I just want players to go "oh, I can bring this pair of Land Speeders along with my Stormtalon instead of two Stormtalons, sure, I'll give that a shot."

The points are ultimately there as a feel good thing, in game encouragement for variety, and a little bonus - 2 points is First Blood and Slay the Warlord, and normally the Third Objective (we play with three objectives, with descending points values) is like 4-6 points - so it's not grossly unbalancing.

# ¿ May 31, 2014 19:16

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

LingcodKilla posted:

Give a VP for killing your own unit on accident. Exclude psychic.

An excellent Unbound list - Bastion, all the Lone Wolves you can buy. Jump off the Bastion until you break all their legs, bury your opponent in VP.

# ¿ May 31, 2014 19:34

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

HiveCommander posted:

Those buildings
I could really go for a bunch of awesome terrain like that at my club.

Build some! Building terrain is a great activity, either with a bunch of less than sober friends or by yourself. Plus, terrain can come in a wide variety of skill levels, and work with a bunch of talents. I'm waiting for my friend to get off work to snap a few pictures of what we have - he has the terrain bag at his place at the moment - but my buddy worked in a furniture warehouse and made some buildings and barricades from scrap, and I like to thrift shop, so I made a Comms Tower out of a three buck toddler toy and a bunch of paint. If you've got real skill (that is, can do more than paint toys) you can make some fantastic stuff, like what Buffalo Chicken and his bro have.

Seriously, the best way to ensure you have interesting terrain on hand is to make it, and it's fun to slap up besides.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2014 04:14

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Hixson posted:

In case this was ever in question: playing against a Warhound in a sub 2000pt game is no fun.

What's the story with this? I mean, we all get the ending - Warhound eats Hixson alive - but I want to know how it got to this point.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2014 18:57

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Hixson posted:

Panascope just got his titan and wanted to try it. We were just messing around. He had a bunch of guardsmen, a chimera, and a titan at 1850pts.

I put lances on everything. But it didnt matter. By the end of the game the titan had killed a wraithknight, wraithlord, 3 waveserpents, 3 warwalkers, 2 squads of dire avengers, and a building my warp spiders were hiding in. The things a dick.

But it was still a pretty funny game. I had a seer council on foot that Gate of Inifinity'd across the board and charged his guardblob. 5 warlocks died to do it, but Eldrad made it into close combat and killed Yarick in a challenge. It was cinematic as gently caress.

We tried out the objective cards, they were actually pretty fun. They gave me enough points to give me a false sense of hope that i could win. After the game we realized that you're allowed to discard 1 card per turn. So I could have gotten rid of the the card that wanted me to destroy his fortifcation (he didnt have one) and the one that wanted me to control all the objectives on the board (lol)

Pretty rad. That's the best way to do Titans and the like. Did you use the Escalation Warlord table, or just roll with whatever Eldrad had? How'd the new psychic phase treat your Eldar? Perhaps most importantly, how the hell did Eldrad kill Yarrick?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2014 20:15

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Raphus C posted:

"how many points? Also, where do you stand on the superiority of the white race?"

"Eh, they have good Heavy Support choices." :burger:

I'm working on Fateweaver, and I want to set him up so that I can swap his second head out for a piece of armor, some scrolls, some fur - still hammering out the idea - and just run him as a Lord of Change when I feel like it. I've not worked with magnets much, and the ones I have are pretty potent. Is glue going to be enough to keep the magnets from ripping out, or do I want to look at some other method (Green Stuff, perhaps?) of securing them to the parts of the modl?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2014 22:29

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

ghetto wormhole posted:

I take it Astropaths are worth taking in IG command squads now? A warp charge and two Telepathy powers for 30 points.

I think it's worth it. Worst case scenario, it's 30 points for an extra Warp Charge because you roll jank powers and no one wanders into range of Psychic Scream. That's only five points more than an extra ML on a Primaris Psyker. Best case, you make tanks Invisible or scream so hard at some units that just pulled a Deep Strike that their eyes melt. It's not a bad deal at all, though you can get Warp Charges a little cheaper elsewhere if you want them.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2014 04:07

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

I know plenty of players who would play Sisters if they could get them at a decent price and not in pewter. (I'm one of them!) There is a lot of hope that GW saw how well Wood Elves did, and figured out that a lot of players are interested in older ranges but held back by either cost of entry, apathy over old sculpts, or a desire to play with not pewter. Of course, people have been saying that Sisters were getting an update and plastic models for years, and they've only gotten a WD update and that rather uninspired digital codex.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2014 05:07

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

SRM posted:

No they shouldn't, it was butt garbage. It was really punishing to certain armies (Marines, but especially Deathwing, Ravenwing, or other good-save/low-model builds) and didn't matter one iota to others. Reducing your save by 1 would be novel, but pretty much unheard of in post-2nd ed 40k.

Dumb idea - if you want to bring back a mechanic like that, wouldn't it be less punishing and easy if it was "reroll successful armor saves of 6?" It's a small boost, doesn't add that much time, and it's less effective the better your armor is - meaning that while it's still great to have, Terminators are still essentially going to just bounce the hits. (This isn't a thing that needs done - just seems like, mechanically, the easiest and fairest way.)

On a side note, today was a good day to be a Defiler. My dopey crab fought off a Swarmlord for multiple turns - the nerf to Smash is really a giant kick in the junk for that poor guy, since he would either miss his hit, get bounced by my Daemon save, or just roll Stunned while I slowly pummeled him to death. Felt good. (Sorry Hencoe.)

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 07:11

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Two Feet From Bread posted:

Because it was all NIB and loving cheap. A FLGS is going out business so I bought all the 40k and WHFB stock.

Depending on how good the deal was, you might slowly make that back through flipping it on eBay or selling locally.

or start several thousand points of every army

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 21:50

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Sulecrist posted:

Are we going to need to send you emails or jump through other hoops ("priority will be given to those who complete this grandmaster Sudoku puzzle") or is this a strictly speaking deal?

Yeah, got the same question. Mostly, I want to deprive Hollismason Daemons out of spite, so that he has to pay full GW prices for his insane schemes.

(I also took up an order from amongst my friends, so you'll be clearing out some of the more esoteric stuff as well.)

# ¿ Jun 9, 2014 22:27

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

The kit is shaping up to be waaaay too expensive for its cost/points, but thankfully, you can make these things out of a small toy car, some plasticard, as much plastic tubing as you want, and as many guns you can find laying around. God bless looting and conversions.

Safety Factor posted:

Some traktor beams could be absolutely hilarious.

So, with the zzap gun, bubblechukka, and smasha gun that makes for three options with random strength? Sounds about right. I really hope the shokk attack gun kept its random table.

Traktor Beams are going to be a riot against aircraft and FMCs. A 33% chance on a glancing hit to rip a Stormraven right out of the sky? Okay, cool. Making all FMCs but the very luckiest hit the dirt directly in front of a mob of Boyz/Nobz/Whatever? Hilarious. Doesn't matter if your fancy Daemon Prince or Hive Tyrant has all the kit in the world, buckets of S4 attacks will just bury him.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 00:42

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Proletariat Beowulf posted:

This is the answer. I'm running by a sign shop to buy their scrap as plasticard probably sometime today for the big guns I finally got slapped together. Also, thanks to whichever goon recommended buying a dollar store package of toy cars--I got like 16 wheels for $1.

The new lobbas cost the same as kannons, too! I took 3 into my last game and my opponents wept utterly.

e: 120 pts. for 30 T7 3+ wounds? Yes, please.

Sup. You can never have enough wheels for Orks. Wheels turn a collection of bits and plastic into something rad. Big Gunz for days, or Deffkoptas into Bikes.

Spiking of which, I really hope they make Deffkoptas better. They're cool, but suffer from just not being very good at anything. Be nice if they got one or two decent melee upgrades (besides the Buzzsaw) so you just ride forward hellbent for leather, Jinking the whole first turn, before smashing into the lines turn 2. As is, they can do that, but in my experience, if they don't win the first round of combat, they're just sorta flailing about until they fail a moral test. Not exactly good odds on their Hit and Run. They're pretty expensive, besides.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 19:16

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

PierreTheMime posted:

Had another game with my Chaos Daemons/Chaos Space Marines in a team game at 1000pts each. My Daemon Prince continues to utterly dominate with its 2+ cover save and greater gifts. I think I really need to pick up another one at some point. Jink saves on Gliding FMCs is just so good if its a melee-only Shrouded unit. This game I also got Iron Arm for added insult and injury.

Nurgle Daemon Princes are just disgustingly good these days, and you really should grab a second for higher points totals. The only downside is that Jinking prevents you from casting some psyker powers properly (so long beams) and forces Snap Shots with Gifts and Witchfires. I know you said melee-only, but I've have my share of Hellfire Gaze/3+ Armor Save matched with Haemo/Leech Life/Warp Speed - some days, it's just better than others. That's Chaos for you, though.

Of course, Nurgle DPs are about the only DP I feel safe touching down and eating full rounds of shooting - they can safely make it into CC on turn 3, and with the right combination of Gifts and Iron Arm, you can even risk leaving them on the ground turn 1 and rushing them forward for a turn 2 charge.

What was your list, by the way? I'm always curious.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 02:14

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Cataphract posted:

My nurgle daemon prince has been on the bench since the 6th ed codex dropped. I'm keen to put him back on the table. What's a good load out?

Chaos Daemon - Wings, Mastery Level 3, two Greater Rewards. This gets you moving fast, three rolls on Biomancy - with very solid odds at Iron Arm - and two rolls on Greater Rewards, which can net you Fleshbane/Armorbane, +1 W and IWND, or a 4+ FNP. Sometimes you get underwhelming rewards and powers, but it is entirely worth it for those days when you have a S9 T8 5W FNP4+ IWND 2++ rear end in a top hat that eats your opponent alive.

Since you are Jinking every turn, Warp-Forged Armor isn't strictly needed because of your constant Jinks, and though it can help keep you from being whittled down in close combat by mooks, it doesn't save your rear end from other MCs or dudes rocking Power Swords and the like. It can also be made pointless with a roll of the Greater Rewards, which is always a bummer, even if you swap out your weapon. Your call on it. Lesser Rewards are underwhelming, and most of them are situational. You can grab one for a Plague Flail, though - with Iron Arm, you can get S10, and even S7 attacks are a small edge in some situations. Plus, you can make the Flail eat Nobz or Characters faster if you get lucky. One again, your call - I like it if I have a few spare points.

Chaos Space Marines - Wings, Mastery Level 3, Black Mace, Spell Familiar. You lose out on Greater Gifts, which sucks, and have to burn a roll on the Nurgle Powers, meaning one less roll on Biomancy, which also sucks. Same principles apply, however, for use. But the Black Mace is great, at least! It means you can eat blobs of troops alive, cheat out extra wounds on MCs, and generally be a dick in CC. Terminators? Eh, die on a 5 or 6 if they are in range, 2+ or no. The Spell Familiar is strong since it lets you be more consistent with the powers you do get - rerolling failed Psyker tests means you can try cheating out 1 die on powers, and helps ensure Iron Arm does not crap out on 3 dice at a really bad time.

You're softer in general, and you can't get a redundant version of Armor from Greater Rewards, so I think that's a better buy here. A Gift of Mutation is hilarious, if often pointless - another good points sink if you have a few to burn.

Would recommend the Chaos Daemons DP unless you have a theme or need a CSM HQ, since it is just generally better. Roll on Biomancy, roll forward, beat face. You can also summon Daemons via Malefic with these guys, if that's your thing.

Sick (It is a Nurgle joke) model by the way, man. That red pops, and I love how it contrasts with the more mellow and rotten Nurgle colors.

Edit - These guys are stupid expensive, but generally worth it. For a budget, just grab 1 ML, Nurgle, and the Greater Rewards + Wings in Chaos Daemons. That's 265 points, some decent kit, and a chance to snag the Primaris - Summoning is an obvious pick - of any table you like. You can even strip the 1 ML, going to just 240 points for Nurgle, Wings, and 2 Greater Rewards. No Psyker fun, but you have a 2++ model cruising up the board that can still get FNP 4+ or rerolling Invulns, or whatever.

Greater Rewards rule.

Von Humboldt fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jun 11, 2014

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 02:54

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Post 9-11 User posted:

uh

Hope things get better, sincerely. When I went through a rough spot - and ended up jetting out of where I lived, dumping my stuff, and then crashing with a friend for a whole summer - one of the first things I made sure to get from the place was my plastic space mans. When things are poo poo, you can still rely on Battle Bro "gently caress I SUCK AT EYES" to be there for another round at optic surgery, and next thing you know, you're engrossed in why the hell you can't make him not look like he's a mutant after two hours. Helps clear the mind, so I fully understand.

Where you fishing at/fishing for, man? You could always combine the two hobbies, if you like catfishing or something similarly laid back. Set pole, paint, set down kit when you get a hit, repeat. Likely will miss a few, but, eh.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 04:48

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

SRM posted:

Rough Riders, probably.

Pacheeco posted:

Hydras in the absence of Flyers/Skimmers, Rough Riders, or Wyrdvane Psykers that aren't being used to summon Daemons. Rough Riders might be the worst.

This is heresy right here. Rough Riders as a unit are a fast, counter-assault unit that can cut down a ton of models, relatively cheap, and most importantly, SPACE LANCERS. The problem is that you can normally just take the equal of the Rough Riders in shooting and get a more consistent list that doesn't rely on your opponent getting within charge range of your lines - but they're cheap enough that you can bring them anyways. I don't think they are bad as much as they are just out of place with what IG does best.

(Rough Riders are rad as hell.)

Bullgryns with the Power Maul and the Brute Shield are pretty bad, though. They're very tough, but suffer from Rough Rider syndrome, where you can just buy more shooting instead of counter assault, and you can't even shove a small unit of these dudes behind the lines "just in case" because they are so expensive. Plus, they practically need someone to babysit them.

In fact, why not aim to make a melee themed IG list? Shotgun Vets, Bullgryns, Rough Riders, Priests, some mooks with Flamers, and maybe a full kitted Command Squad with Straken? That certainly isn't too strong, you get to run some rad units (and just proxy in the Vets and Command Squad, easy) and 30 Fearless Guardsmen surging forward to bayonet some assholes is great imagery and fluffy.

Von Humboldt fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jun 11, 2014

# ¿ Jun 11, 2014 05:34

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

Hollismason posted:

Any of you good at Photoshop and could make me a Photoshop image that has that old Centipedes in My Vagina, but instead Daemons in my Vagina or Daemons? In my Army?

I'm writing a article on something and I suck at photoshop and I think it would be a funny picture. Or lead me to place that does it automatically?

Be honest. You're asking for something here to slap it on Dakka, so you can keep going on about Daemons. We get it, man. You love Daemons. Daemons are the next big thing. Summoning Daemons is insane. Daemons are better than sliced bread. You have proven beyond a doubt, in fact, Daemons Daemons DAEMONS.

GIMP is free and not that hard to use. You could knock something out in Paint, even - the original meme is mostly just white space with text, so that's easy to fix. That's what I would suggest.

DAEMONS

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 02:54

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

UberJumper posted:

The only lascannons i have that i can easily use are on a pair of vendettas. I don't have a copy of the IA book that has the Stormlord, so i don't know the exact rules of it, can Melta's work if i hit it on the sides/rear? I am assuming it has better armour than the land raider on the front?

Stormlord is AV 14/13/12, and rocks 9 HP. Meltas would work as normal. The Stormlord is a more mellow Lord of War, since its gun is just a bucket of S6 AP3 shots.

Vendettas would be pretty solid, since he can only glance them and you can lay into his side arcs.

edit - toats beat

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 03:24

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

SUPER NEAT TOY posted:

Why are you arranging a game you don't want to play?

For real, just tell the dude you don't want to play that poo poo and to bring something else, if it's that big a deal. The Primaris Psykers are likely going to fish for on Divination for stuff - Twin Link at the least, 4++ Power at worst - and the Quad Gun is specifically to gently caress with your flyers and anything that tries to Deep Strike in. It's pretty nasty, assuming it is played right.

Alternatively, if you have Basilisks and Manticores, just take only those with some flyers. Hit on side armor, blow off any assholes on the Quad, and then just hammer the tank as he wiggles it around to try and find LOS on artillery you've hidden away.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 20:56

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 15:27

Von Humboldt: Jan 13, 2009

I'd only really suggest a Heldrake and some Plaguebearers. Heldrake is still solid, looks rad as hell, and helps shore up your list versus Flyers a little more. Plus, you can sometimes swing infuriating crap with Cursed Earth with it. Plaguebearers are just fantastic to summon, since they are such a pain in the rear end to clear off of any objective in cover. I've been summoning a unit of Plaguebearers turn 1 to drop on a backfield objective as I move up, and it works pretty well. Maybe you could use some anti-armor in there as well, to help versus mechanized lists? Plenty of ways to handle that, though.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2014 21:15

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