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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I recently finished Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons.

The central conceit of the game is that you control both characters at the same time. So on the keyboard, you control big brother with WASD, little brother with arrow keys. They both have the standard context sensitive action button, big brother has space, little brother has right control (so you wear out the edge of your thumb).

Over the course of the game, the characters develop distinct personalities. Lil is dependent on his brother, he can't swim and is scared of water. He's also shorter, so big boosts him up ledges.

At the end of the game, lil is separated from big. He has to cross a body of water, and his action button does nothing. You pass the problem by pressing big's action button. Same when he finds a ledge, big's action button makes him do a run up and climb it himself.

The game is a tragic coming-of-age story, lil is forced to rapidly grow up and fill big's shoes, because big ain't coming back.

All during the ending sequence, you're expecting the magic tree's magic water to fix big's mortal wound. Lil is in a race against time before big bleeds out. But the magic doesn't work. Its magic fixes one thing, and that's the father's illness, and not all death. That already sets it apart from most other stories. And at the end, it's the father and lil standing alone by the shore, by their family's headstones, and you regret their journey. The father would not have wanted to have sacrificed his son.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I'd always assumed that Shadows of Mordor was some silly grimdark Tolkien fanfiction that discarded one of the core themes of LoTR (small unimportant people can resist the temptations of power and do great things without having to revel in glory and battle). Is it still that, yet a good game? Or is it not that at all, and are you Literally Sauron?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
But the core question is, are you Literally Sauron?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
So how do the revamped ME3 endings work now? Are the 3 colour coded options now "trick endings" where your mind controlled main character thinks they did the right thing, or is it played completely and optimistically straight?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
a better question is how can a crippled autist can even become a merchant a run a shop

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Dewgy posted:

OK yeah I still don't have much interest in Hardline as a game but as far as fun poo poo in a game? Oh my god.

http://youtu.be/f-yqFhkFvKc

There's so many variants!

That needed a donuts down :byodood: at the end.

Spoiler tagged because of the horrifying twist ending.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Black Mesa is thing_dragging_this_game_down.exe, between the overtuned marines and the inability to jump onto anything without subsequently pressing the crouch button so that Gordon can retract his giant dangling ballsack that otherwise collides with ledges and makes him fall backwards.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
It might be good in isolation but considering NOD is a themed after COBRA-style terrorists who go around cackling with glee as they chemical-bomb and death laser their enemies, that's awful characterisation.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Lord Lambeth posted:

It's a really small thing, but I appreciate that when running over mines in your tank in Valkyria Chronicles, they only explode when you run your treads directly over them. If you get them between the treads, no explosion.

Does this really do anything in game? An AP mine is pressure sensitive, and is small enough that it won't really damage a tank (it might detrack one at worse). An AT mine, on the other hand, tends to be magnetic, and so will definitely trigger on a vehicle even if a tread doesn't touch it.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Wild T posted:

The Working Joes in Alien: Isolation are the best robots in any recent games I've played. Even when they're throwing you into walls or strangling you to death, they maintain their charming British butler personality. Nothing like the first time I tried to clock one in the back of the skull with a wrench only for it to spin around wildly, catch my next swing in its hand, calmly say "Tut tut." and snap my neck like a piece of dried kindling :stare: The Alien made for some tense moments, but the Joes were scary as gently caress because they were so close to human, but not.

"Don't run. Running causes accidents."

That's basically the schtick of the protocol droids from System Shock 2. Except they violently explode when they walk up to you.

Also, they are usually stored packaged inside containers, and will randomly burst out of them as you approach.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
ToP owned, the characters were fun and stood out, and the villain was both scary and humanised.

Also, it somehow made a time travelling/medieval future story not a total mess.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

FredMSloniker posted:

As in the actual real-life people got mad about vidya games and started yelling at you? Eesh.

Isn't this supposed to be a PVP-like game? Are people so mentally divided into us-vs-them that they can't even take the loyal opposition in good faith?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Kulebri posted:

Iunno, I played that for a while and the opposition were nothing if not friendly. We had designated "nursery" zones where low-level players could go play, we'd shoot the poo poo on global chat and we'd even go meet at the pub every once in a while.

Reading the Games thread, it does seem like transgressions that they would never do around their peers. It seems cool.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
That's fist of the north star
:goonsay:





How many animes have you watched in your life?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Fortunately, all those random street criminals are now covered under insurance, thanks to Obama.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
The final level of Dishonored Brigmore Witches DLC can be played like Thief 1's final level.

You can ghost in and sabotage Delilah's painting while her back is turned, and ruins the ritual and sets her in a fate worse than death.

And it's a really cool plot by the villain. It manages to be supernaturally terrifying, and mundanely malevolent. Delilah's big plot is to use her magic to take over Emily Kaldwin's body, and therefore become the new Empress. That's a more fun villain than we ever got with Corvo, Hiram wasn't much of a rival. And you can't help but wonder if her failed ritual imbued some powers upon Emily in Dishonored 2.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Scott Cawthon is an extremely Christian man, and that means he walks the walk and is a nice and humble guy.

And risking life and limb for some fast food job is totally something that speaks to his fellow Christians.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
(dumb question)

Phobophilia has a new favorite as of 01:48 on Aug 30, 2015

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Grineer are basically space orcs, which was probably one motivation as to why DE wanted to incorporate a nemesis system into the game.

The problem is, SoM is built purely All About Orcs, while Grineer are only a subset of WF. The nemesis system is built for both: (a) throughput, you can get a constant stream of semi-forgettable yet distinctive orcs through your game as you chop through them, as well as (b) depth, you get a core roster of very prominent captains that you can get an actual back and forth with. The Kuva Lich system is neither, it is not fleshed out for either objective.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Goons Surprised By People Who Enjoy Bathing

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
so adam jensen cutscene incompetence syndrome

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Bussamove posted:

Hair is hard. If you have it move all as one piece it looks unnatural, if you have it move independently but don’t do it properly you get wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tube hair going every which-a-way. Then if it doesn’t move at all you get the rubber wig situation.

alternatively you go bloodborne beast fur physics where they're almost like a matted fur tentacle waving around and it is a very disquieting effect

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Johnny Aztec posted:

Oh! I just now, at this moment, realized I've been conflating the Horizon Games, and the NIER games together as one.

Never played either of the series, so just videos and memes and cultural osmosis from people talking about them. Was just an unconscious blending.


By some freaky co-incidence, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Nier: Automata and Zelda: Breath of the Wild all came out around the same time in 2017, and all accidentally touch on similar aesthetics and themes and backstories. You have lush overgrown ruins, ancient histories, ancient machines, open worlds.

But where they differ, you can categorize them by their political philosophies.

Horizon: Zero Dawn has a technocratic, liberal imperialist worldview. The physical sciences can be solved using pure computing power. The world has been terraformed into a paradise: multiple times. But the world has been thrown out of balance by someone sabotaging the education system of the world, people have been made artificially ignorant. But these ignorant-yet-clever techno-barbarians have been randomly turning ancient subsystems on-and-off, and in doing so have accidentally unleashed terrible evils that could destroy . Aloy/Player Character is completely enlightened with 21st century knowledge and cultural values, and therefore has to rise to the occasion and bring enlightenment to the world. While the story doesn't explicitly say so, it implies that only Aloy is the person who is right to run the world.

Nier: Automata has a revolutionary philosophy. The world has been trapped in meaningless stasis for 40 thousand years, this cannot continue, the distant descendants of humanity: androids and machine lifeforms, must break free of 21st century human values of war and conquest and forge their own destiny.

Zelda: Breath of the Wild is the most conservative, backwards looking. Things were mostly fine until some outside force destroyed the world. The ultimate goal of Link and Zelda is to restore the old Hylian monarchy that was destroyed by Ganon.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Kit Walker posted:

I think they mean to the point of apocalypse. Faro has an anprim-style ramble at one point about how knowledge is evil and brought about the end of the world and how the new generation will be better off without it. It still comes across as totally self-serving

Both can be kind of true at once, Faro might have invited in some primitivist whackos who blame the apocalypse on human technological advancement, and he might also want to suppress the knowledge that it wasn't his fault. Though I personally lean towards the former. He seriously thought he was doing the correct, selfless thing by destroying APOLLO. He had been completely humiliated and sidelined by Sobeck, all his wealth has been forcefully requisitioned from him by the US government, with only a pittance that he could use to furnish his personal bunker and fill it with pretty girls and charismatic preachers.

And if there was any motivation towards the latter, it wasn't well thought out, there is no lack of random datapads lying around outside mentioning the "Faro Plague".
Not that it was within his ability to alter the record, not without being turned into robot food.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

The Lone Badger posted:

Also without Apollo there wouldn't be a society technologically advanced enough to read those datapads.

Aloy didn't need APOLLO nor make contact with GAIA to read those datapads mentioning the Faro Plague.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Douche Wolf 89 posted:

I don't know why people are bringing up "anprim" as he was clearly only ok with deleting the knowledge to remotely scrub his name, and also that's not what anprim is.

Core Control Datapoint, located in the ruins of Gaia prime, chronologically written after Sobeck manually locked GAIA prime from the outside. Chronologically after every other member of the team held a wake for her.

quote:

MARGO SHĔN: Um, Dr. Ronson, I've been getting... a lot of messages, unsolicited messages. From Ted.

CHARLES RONSON: Margo, I'm sorry. With Lis... gone, we've got no-one to run interference with him. I'll talk to Ted. He mostly wants updates, constant updates--hundreds of updates on things he knows nothing about. Lis used to field all of his crap...

MARGO SHĔN: He doesn't understand the systems at all. That was kind of by design. But he's getting pretty sketchy with me.

CHARLES RONSON: We just have to keep him happy. Lis always said keep him happy.

MARGO SHĔN: Are you kidding? You ever hear how she talked to him?

CHARLES RONSON: She was managing him, Margo.

MARGO SHĔN: I mean, maybe I should ignore him. He's buried in his pyramid with the holo-holo girls and Pantah Antimod cuckoos... What can he do?

What does the bolded part mean? It could absolutely be read as a group of primitivists that have finangled their way into the heart and mind of the richest man on Earth. And it also indicates that Faro has been doing alot of deep, heavy thinking, far too much for his stunted little skull.

Now what precedes this datapoint? These three:

quote:


Rest In Peace:
TED FARO: Hello, Lis. I know... I know you're never gonna hear this. That's not the point. You, ah, you got to play the savior and the martyr all at once this time. Great work.

The Future:
TED FARO: What are we going to plug into their heads, Lis? A whole lot of history. A whole lot of so-called truth. A whole lot of noise. It's not pablum, Lis. It's poison.

The Solution:
TED FARO: I've been taking a hard look at the project. In the end it's simple. It's clean. It's clear. It's erasure. It's addition by subtraction. I can make it better, Lis. With a single stroke, make it all go away.

What does this tell us? Faro's explicit motivation that he gives us is he wants to save future society from making our (his) mistakes. Does he have a hidden motivation to hide his shame and humiliation from future generations? Maybe. Every man contains multitudes. But we may never know.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
The text does not explicitly support your reading.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Speculating on a man's motivations is difficult in the best of times, lest we forget this is a story about a fictional character who's motivations are given in brief snippets of dialogue.

The reading can be at most inferred, but it is not set in stone. People are reading far too much into it.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

RoboRodent posted:

Ted definitely fell into anprim philosophy, but I interpret it as the reason he was so susceptible to it was because if technology is inherently the problem, then it's not his fault. He's a stupid gently caress of a tech bro with a huge ego, and he was looking to deny his own blame, so that's tempting and he clung to it. And then, in his mind, he can justify murdering the Alphas and deleting Apollo, because he's saving the world from itself, not just trying to erase his own guilt, which is a convenient side effect. I'm not sure he saw himself primarily trying to hide his own involvement, but he sure saw it as a definite plus if he let himself think about it at all rather than bury it in justifications for why the plague of unstoppable robots that eat everything wasn't actually his fault. Few people are really honest with themselves about their own motivations, and Ted definitely wasn't.

Ted is an incredible villain, really, and way too real and believable.

Yeah, this is the most reasonable reading of Faro's motivations. It doesn't detract from how idiotic and deluded his decision was. Humans are very clever monkeys, even in the absence of APOLLO, they're going to start poking at old world tech to see how it works. And so, without APOLLO, the descendants are almost guaranteed to accidentally make the same mistakes of the old world, from overhunting triggering the Derangement, to a cadre of religious fanatics activating the old Farobots.

Maybe trying to cover up his crimes was a part of it, but at that point it was a lost cause. Faro's name was mud. Everyone called it the Faro plague.


Strategic Tea posted:

Ted is deleuded - he doesn't want to be known as history's greatest failure, but equally he can't stand the idea he's been sidelined. As Mr Galaxy Brain surely he should be leading the project, not being humiliated and shuffled off to retirement by his own employees and the darn anti business gubmint. He's desperate to find some genius contribution that everyone else missed.

This is indeed a part of it. It explains his envy of Sobeck and the respect she got from everyone else.

It was a failure of Sobeck, and of the US government, that instead of sidelining him 95%, they should have sidelined him 100%. The only thing he was good for was smoothly rubber stamping all the resource and requisition requests from Faro Robotics by the ZD project. At that point, they should have stripped him of every ounce of executive decision making. But that's only known in hindsight. Who the gently caress knew he had something audacious in him like utilizing Omega level overrides to murder his peers. That back door was in there for a reason, and the reason was not to fulfil Faro's idiotic whims.


exquisite tea posted:

Phobophilia is the "Horizon Zero Dawn represents a neoliberal tech utopia" guy so I think his reading of the text is just wilfully bad at this point.

Horizon Zero Dawn is a phenomenal game. It is also infused with Ideology. It is extremely optimistic, in that it posits that not just one, but two existential crises for planet earth's biosphere can be solved using Technology.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

ookiimarukochan posted:

Just out of curiosity, what do the people who think that Ted Faro was genuinely a visionary genius doing what's best for humanity think of Elon Musk?

I believe I have found the crux of this Discourse. No one in this thread thinks this. There is unanimous consensus that Faro was an idiot given far too much power by an utterly dysfunctional political/economic system that he could trigger two entire catastrophes out of personal greed and grievances. One that destroyed the world, another that crippled any hopes of recovery.

And no, Musk is a mental mediocrity. He has not engaged with the science, nor the hard science fiction literature that he purports to devour. His Mars project is a joke. He has a decent rocket package. But he has made no advances in life support, biospheres, anything that could support an interplanetary expedition or a colony for more than a few years without resupply.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I wouldn't count it out; They only THINK it was destroyed. They don't know for certain what actually occurred iirc, just that they lost contact and what looked like an antimatter explosion occurred. It's also far too good a plot hook to toss away like that when you can pull it out a few sequels later with either the ark returning to Earth, or even better; Turns out it worked and now full-grown "modern" humans with knowledge of all those advanced technologies are coming back to their homeworld.

quote:

FROM: Elisabet Sobeck
TO: All-Alphas
SUBJECT: Odyssey Has Failed

All,

Some terrible news, I'm afraid. Far Zenith has informed me that the Odyssey mission has failed. Last night, telemetry indicated a catastrophic antimatter containment failure as the drives spun up to depart the solar system. The ship, its crew, its cargo of zygotes and seeds, its alpha-build of APOLLO - all were lost.

Zero Dawn is now the only hope for the continuation of the human species and Earthly life.

We must succeed.

Elisabet

Two points. The characters have zero qualms about lying and disinformation. Sobeck misled the world about the nature of Project Zero Dawn. Dalgaard is the frontman for a group of shadowy billionaires as well.

Secondly, the word "telemetry". Not a simple light telescope pointed at a brightly glowing drive spraying photons in every which direction. Telemetry. But at that point, everyone was in an underground bunker, everyone was focused on PZD, likely no one was going to put too much effort into it.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Cleretic posted:

Dark Souls 3's second and final DLC starts you off in an area called the Dreg Heap. It's the manifestation of DS3's idea of essentially 'fantasy Big Crunch'; the game's been making a big deal that time and space are getting distorted, and the Dreg Heap is where it's getting distorted towards. Civilizations both great and small converging on each other in a big pile of architectural decay. It's a really neat concept, and a super interesting way to re-use assets, since it's all crashing together; you're climbing sideways on towers and the like.

But the interesting part to me is which assets they thought to re-use. It starts with parts of Londor, the first and last area you visit in DS3. And its boss arena is Direlink Shrine from DS1, which is honestly the only place it could've been. But between those two is the Earthen Peak from DS2, which is only really remembered from A: being one of the resident Poison Zones, and B: having the worst zone transition in the series, where you travel up on an elevator (in a keep open to the elements with collapsed towers) into a... subterranean fortress. Not only do they bring back the poisonous grounds of the Earthen Keep, they even call back to the elevator, by making the way you leave that area to drop down from the now-destroyed elevator shaft.

It's one thing to reuse assets from your own game, that's just smart. Bringing back a classic area is just knowing your audience. But bringing back an area only known for being bad, and trying to make something good out of it? That takes guts.


Because I'm a sucker for it, I'm borrowing from the Inspector Gesicht school (despite not remembering how to spell his name): What other exceptionally interesting or daring ways to re-use assets or designs do people remember?

Fromsoft games are shamelessly self-referential in surprising ways that take into account feedback from their audience. For instance, early on in Bloodborne, on the path to the first mandatory boss, there's a dark house containing an old man in a wheelchair who will try and shoot you if you approach him. He is also guaranteed to drop bullets. So most players, in their first run through of the game, will always make a detour into that house to murder a nigh-defenseless disabled old man for their ammo stash.

In the Hunter's Nightmare DLC, you enter a distorted version of Yharnam City. There just so happens to be a dark house with the same layout, with a wheelchair in the same location. There's even some glowing loot right there on the body. Except, the wheelchair is rigged up to a proximity bomb, and if it goes off it sets off a number of explosive urns that will one shot you if you stand near the loot.

There's no need for the DLC level designers to call back to this location. Except that the location in the base game stood out in the minds of the audience, and so the DLC designers wanted to call back to it, and play a cruel prank.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
if the immediate response to that review wasnt the a gif of those guys dynamiting the swastika atop the nuremberg stadium then i would be deeply disappointed in the devs and i absolutely will not purchase their game at full price

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit

Cleretic posted:

A really neat video Youtube handed me today, about how Dark Souls did a very specific short cutscene, is actually super interesting. Basically in a scene where a character crackles with energy and grows, unlocking the camera shows that the opposite's happening: the character remains the exact same size, and the room shrinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV_9wQWWLjc

In dissecting it, it turns out there's probably multiple pieces of really clever logic for this.
1. Making the character grow would likely lead to some ugly stretched textures; that's avoided by instead making everything else smaller.
2. The particle effects have to remain consistent with the character rather than their surroundings; that's a lot easier when the character's the thing remaining stationary.
3. Making the shot work with the camera as it appears would require simultaneously growing the character and tracking the camera backwards to keep him in view; but if the room's instead getting smaller, then the camera doesn't even have to move at all, the effect happens by itself.

I just really like seeing such a clever solution to things you thought were done a whole different way.

One of the things I love about film is that it's so much about using weird little tricks and misdirections to work around that everything is done with flesh and blood humans. It's magic captured at 24 frames per second. Like how they did the empty London scenes in 28 days later using camera angles and careful shooting and sound mixing.

Game development is about the same thing, accepting the constraints of animation work and logic scripting and how many polygons can be rendered by your GPU at any time. This kind of development hasn't changed that much over the past decade as technology has improved, if anything it unlocks more and more tools for developers to use.

It has made film less interesting however, as so much ends up being done in post in giant render farms.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Outer Wilds did the same thing with the Rumors tab in the Ship Log. The devs described it as "lol we just plonked our design docs into the game".

It's an alternative to actually building a quest log, but it does take work to arrange and trust in the audience to get what they're going for.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
doobie's dog house is our chris chan and the existence of it is a condemnation of this community





that is a cute poster though

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
Dark Souls is a game about constantly dying in more and more humiliating ways, and you never feel disgust at the developers, but instead feel disgust at yourself for loving up.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I got surprisingly far into Hades on my first handful of runs, even meeting the big boy, but I kind of stopped playing because I could be playing Bloodborne/Dark Souls instead.

People have joked to me that Souls games rewires your brain.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
I can't help but think the Thief inspirations and chaos system hurt Dishonored 1 a tad, even if they leaned into it better in Dishonored 2. But yeah, embracing chaos and incentivizing players to go loud is the easiest and most fun way to design the game. Other games with a mix of stealth and loudness have embraced this, from the Ubisoftsss, Batmans, Mordors, and hell, even Sekiro.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
That would really only work in some kind of social stealth game, and there aren't many of those cause they ain't easy to even start.

Why yes it would be amusing to recreate that scene from Commando.

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