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Violet reminds me here of an uncountable number of wannabe psychiatrists who read a little bit about things, understand even less, and applies this gross oversimplification to human behavior in a way that is absurdly wrong. She is right that Allison goes to solve with her fists too quickly, but Allison was not a child soldier (unless we apply a definition so broad as to be meaningless to understand the mental trauma she is tying in here) and simply being used to violence does not lead to PTSD, and PTSD doesn't intrinsically manifest itself as paranoia and violence. Allison isn't in the right here - she brought a terrifying level of force to bear based off suspicion of a situation that she was new to, suspicions yet to be born out. You have two characters both partly right in conflict, which is how things are in real life. This is why I like this comic
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Jun 17, 2014 15:30
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Pavlov posted:What is an IVS? Invisible Vigilante Stabber
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Jul 1, 2014 15:39
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Serious Frolicking posted:Allison is above the law because her actions haven't exceeded her potential value yet. It is absolutely certain that the government has found a way to kill her after all of these years. I'm guessing they frantically started researching how to do so as soon as she went to the camp. How is something with no basis in what the story has shown "absolutely certain"?
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Jul 2, 2014 11:29
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Serious Frolicking posted:The mere fact of Allison's existence is enough. No, it isn't. You are making up things based in what you think the story should be, not what it is. Show me the page where it says they have a hard counter to her or shut up.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:41
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thatbastardken posted:There isn't a textual example, but it's not unreasonable to infer from the murders of the "world changing" supers that more than a few people would be interested in working out how to kill Allison and they've had years to work something out. Yes, it is unreasonable because it isn't supported by the work. You guys are treating this like every other "realistic" treatment of superheroes like Ennis or Moore wrote it, where it comes down to who has more ultra violence up their sleeve and it isn't. With deliberate and clear intent they are breaking from that type of plotting and those tropes.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:02
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idonotlikepeas posted:I think it's fair to say that it's likely (but not certain) that there is some kind of anti-Alison contingency plan. That doesn't mean they've got Alison-killing poison or a team of assassins on tap or anything wacky like that, it just means in some filing cabinet in the DoD there's probably a folder with some report in it that says "here's what we do if Alison goes nuts and starts wrecking things", and most likely the plan is going to involve containment or imprisonment as a first option. This is just something governments do when there's a huge potential threat out there. It's like having a backup plan for what to do if France or Pakistan loses its collective poo poo and starts firing nuclear missiles at us or something. In the event it moves towards ultra violence, the only established way to A) hurt Alison that is B) controlled by the government is Cleaver. Which would again make her decision to approach him with kindness relevant and in keeping with the theme because he's less likely to go through with it. Thinking there is some way completely unestablished way to take her out because you are "absolutely certain" that violence from authority is the solution is completely missing the loving point of the comic. Go read The Boys if you want that. Opposing Farce posted:Not gonna lie, I like the thought that there's a glass case in the DoD somewhere labeled "break in case of France." Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 16:49
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Serious Frolicking posted:It would be criminally negligent for all the guys whose job was to figure out "Hey, what are we gonna do about all these kids with super powers?" to not actually ever try thinking up what to do about Allison. Even if that was the case, she was recently caught on camera threatening to murder a crowd while the police watched helplessly. Are you seriously suggesting that no one is sufficiently afraid of Allison that they would try to figure out a way to stop her? Have you actually met a human before? Because I can show you several pages that show the government plan to deal with the kids with superpowers was doctors, counselors, and job matching community service. It's a major loving plot point, one that came up yet again about a dozen pages back. But hey, go ahead and show me the Alison killing plan page. I want to see how it is "absolutely certain"
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Jul 2, 2014 17:03
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It doesn't have to be Asperger's to justify his behavior. We know he is a manipulative liar who uses his power to then assume the social form that will get him what he wants. We also know that his behavior and statements have gotten Alison to do what he wants - stop pursuing him and leave him free to work towards his other goals. He could be really off like that - the read on his power could be "using cheat codes to win doesn't mean you are good at the game". But he is at best an unreliable narrator for his actions and the idea that this is him playing Alison is a possibility.
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Jul 8, 2014 00:33
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idonotlikepeas posted:Yeah, I think that's where they're going with this. If you have the IVS kill people who are clearly not evil, or seem unlikely to be evil, it's a different set of moral problems. You're making a comment on the haphazard nature of vigilantism (and that may yet happen). In this case, the issue at hand is not "should you kill people you think are guilty, some of whom are not", but "should you kill people who are guilty even if the law disagrees". It narrows the questions a bit - one, whether killing people as a punishment is acceptable, two, whether doing so outside the law is acceptable, and three, if the death penalty is acceptable under what circumstances it may be applied. (i.e. Is it okay to have the death penalty for rape?) If you have the IVS killing random innocent people, it gives you an easy out there: of COURSE what she's doing is wrong, duh. If they're actually guilty you have to think about it a bit. Here's the thing though, the entire way through this the point has been that the idea of the supervillain, the person who is evil in every aspect of their life just to be evil, is bullshit. That horrible, horrible things are done every day by good people for what they think are good reasons. That the source of the problem is a lot more complicated, that you can't punch it away, etc etc etc. This is what Alison has been grappling with for the past 3 chapters. Yet here we are getting "nope, these people are totally terrible about everything" It is a complete break from what was one of the prior appeals of the comic, and I think it is throwing a lot of people. It certainly feels off to me.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:26
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Huh, I figured PintSized was getting too close to Patrick, wo then messed with his head, not that PintSized started quoting sad boy poetry because the group is breaking up
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Jul 16, 2014 04:52
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Captain Bravo posted:Christ, how are we having this argument again? I know for a fact some of you were posting during the first go-around, and you surely can't have forgotten: I was going to do a response to the arguments here, but really, just read this post by Captain Bravo a cartoon duck posted:This, and later on Miles yelling about Allison being a monster, took me right out of the scene. Who would act this aggressively to someone everyone knows is basically in invincible superwoman? Like, I honestly cannot tell if that was meant to add some moral ambiguity or whatever that Allison used an amount of force that tells everyone in the room that she could kill them and there's nothing anyone can do, or that he just talks back to her because he's a bad rape-man and calls her a monster because she's a good guy and that's what bad men do or whatever. eh, that was fairly realistic. Ever watch anyone get into it with cops? Doesn't matter how much they can annihilate every aspect of your life, people will scream at them because they don't like being made to feel so powerless and small. Which is another layer to this scene. a cartoon duck posted:Maybe before she lifted him up by his throat, sure, but afterwards they ask her not to kill him, Miles mentions the hospital incident and calls her a monster, Violet accuses her of having PTSD and all that. Everyone talks about how her gesture was basically hella-threatening to non-biodynamic people, but they act like she just peppersprayed the guy. Captain Bravo posted:Also, don't forget that Alison arrived to the superhero theme party she was specifically invited to by leaping onto the roof like a boss. Everyone watched. Some even took pictures. Maybe this dude has some severe mental retardation or short-term memory loss, but at one point he definitely knew that she was extremely biodynamic, even if he wasn't aware she was Mega-Girl. Squidster posted:Shoot, you're right, I had forgotten she mega-jumped her way in there in a splashy way. I checked the arrival page, he's not there when she shows; I'd expect he was off (I don't know the right verbage here, isolating? finding?) the drunk girl at the time and has no idea who he is talking to. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 20:41
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Small Frozen Thing posted:turns out that kinda poo poo is pretty personal for some people, tho? Authors included a trigger warning for that reason http://monstertag.tumblr.com/post/81358742522/this-upcoming-chapter-of-strong-female-protagonist
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Jul 18, 2014 20:47
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Tenebrais posted:Alison is most famous as a superhero. She was invited to the costume party. Everyone trusts - well, trusted - her not to hurt people. I'm sure that guy knew who she was, he just didn't think she would actually hurt him, so he wasn't afraid to get aggressive with her. Also a valid read, and I won't be surprised if public perception of her changing is part of the long story arc, but I will point out that knowing of a famous person doesn't mean you recognize them when you encounter them .
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Jul 18, 2014 20:49
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Captain Bravo posted:The drunk girl is one of the people taking a picture of Alison. You're right, though, he's not explicitly drawn into the scene, so maybe he somehow missed the biggest event of the party? poo poo, I didn't think to look for her. Maybe he was somewhere else or maybe he is that loving dumb
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Jul 18, 2014 20:56
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Wittgen posted:Alison being a bit too wrapped up in herself is an interesting theme of this chapter. Earlier she was checking her phone while in the middle of meeting a guy. Now she's clueless about basic details of lives of people she spent years fighting alongside. To be fair, Clevin is one boring motherfucker
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Jul 19, 2014 04:48
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Cryophage posted:He fought Menace and Co. with the team for years. Either enhanced detection and good looks alone are enough to warrant being brought to a giant robot fight, or Brad is packing some additional facet to his ability that we haven't seen yet. On the page showing the headquarters we saw tanks and artillery and such, someone has to drive that gear.
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Jul 20, 2014 23:02
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Well also there is the fact that people don't know how Patrick's abilities really work and the limits on them.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:45
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nimby posted:Sonar is probably tier one in that he can hear a pin drop during rush hour. Perhaps hear a punch coming and dodge (most of) the blow. We actually have no idea what he can do, much less that he can "hear a pin drop during rush hour"
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Jul 22, 2014 22:05
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PleasingFungus posted:Feral's storyline is a shameless ripoff of this comic. Yeah, but Weinersmith would realize that, while drug based painkillers may not work, just sticking a blade through the spinal cord and leaving it there through the surgery (to induce paralysis so she couldn't feel anything)1 would work.
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Jul 24, 2014 01:31
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A big flaming stink posted:depends if he actually breaks causality Dude if you don't think the people in power regularly murder people who are upsetting the status quo I don't know what to tell you. They do it to keep things the way they are, to keep milking the gravy train. Hell a lot of times the decisions are made at an abstract plausible deniability level. I doubt Muhtar Kent picks and chooses which union organizer get murdered, which gets tortured, and which gets bribed, but the order to keep things the way they are comes from on high and local thugs get hired and then it's all over but the screaming. I back the idea Patrick is telling Alison what she wants to hear to manipulate her, but that people in power would start killing kids to keep their market share and relative position is the most plausible thing yet in this comic
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Jul 24, 2014 21:09
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In this chapter the Guardians learn the difficulties of completing your run after the Tank quits.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:27
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Brought To You By posted:Still sticking to the theory that her ability is telepathic based. But her knife is interesting. It doesn't look like any kind of metal and it's a single continuous material. Elysiume posted:Could be ceramic. Ceramic knives hold a really good edge (which is basically required because they're really hard to sharpen) and won't trip metal detectors, which can be useful if you're going on a vigilante killing spree. They're brittle, though--they slice better than they would stab, I imagine. We saw her growing spikes out of her body just last page.
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Jul 30, 2014 12:08
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I'm guessing the balloons are filled with paint. Hit Moonshadow with one, she's visible. Also, these guys scream "mercenaries" to me, rather than police or military. Guess we'll see how that shakes out.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:59
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Unlucky7 posted:I am wondering how she got so much military ordinance without anyone noticing or raising an eyebrow... they had tanks and jets at their superhero base, she probably just took a crate from there
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Sep 20, 2014 07:07
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What guidance counselor does that? I mean huh? "Oh hey there thanks for coming in, I'm going to show you a video about rape murder and arson for no reason then we can sit down and I'll do my job"
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Oct 3, 2014 13:22
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Patrick Spens posted:That's a funny way of phrasing it, but I'll take a swing at it. Rape is unique in that it is a serious crime that the United States is completely incapable of prosecuting at an acceptable rate. Somewhere around 3 percent of rapes lead to jail time. Again, 32 out of 33 times someone is raped, their perpetrator never serves time. The State is unambiguously failing in its responsibility to investigate and prosecute rape, and in situations where the State is failing so obviously private action becomes much more acceptable. In addition, very few rapists only commit a single offence. Statistically speaking, the people Moonshadow has killed would have gone on to rape many other people. You know, the US tried doing it that way for a while. We'd wave off the evidentiary requirements for bringing charges and going to trial, because sex crimes were deemed uniquely difficult to prosecute. And when the accused wasn't convicted, or was deemed insufficiently punished, or the justice system was taking too long (or if, like the judge, you were involved in the system not delivering the outcome people had already ordained was to happen) then private action was acceptable. Had to stop the accused before they escalated their activities. Wonder why we stopped? Wonder what the problem with your idea is even if we ignore why we stopped?
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Oct 15, 2014 05:04
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He expressly told her how he would get people to do what he wanted by telling them what they wanted to hear and playing to their doubts, fears, and impulses; and he got her to let him go free by telling her something that played to her doubts, fears, and impulses. Dude is the loving villain, and Allison is steadily going Anakin Skywalker here, they are both planning to disrupt society (which is classically what the villain does) the question is what is the end state and if the ends justify the means. This is perfectly keeping not only with the established theme of the comic, but the direction of the chapter - issues of supes using their powers for the state interests, and now they are in trouble because their end goal and methods were fine against the other, but not against the state (Moonshadow effectively nullifying the act of the state by murdering those kids, then murdering actors of the state - the judge and the mercenaries)
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Dec 4, 2014 18:11
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MikeJF posted:I mean if I were to get a time machine and determined to change the timeline to better humanity I'd admit I don't know anywhere near enough and employ a large team of historians. The trick is you don't change the past to improve the present. You change the future to improve the present. And you do that by sending messages, not by going there and doing anything. See, if you can go back, so can a sheet of paper. Or more usefully, an electrical signal. You take the time machine and hook it up to a computer. The results of any process it does can then be sent back into the past, or basically now, no matter how long it would take to model and calculate the results. They talk about "It would take all the supercomputers running for a thousand years to solve this problem!", well now you have that without needing to have the computers or thousand years. You basically gain perfect precognition - even if it can't be modeled, you can see how things play out and send the message back. Every mystery of math and science becomes instantly known. The economy is basically forced to convert away from its current track- high frequency trading is now defunct, markets are unnecessary (they are a way to handle an NP insufficient information problem, which is now solved), and digital commerce is now all unprotected anyways. The base structure of capitalism just evaporated because all the economic costs are now gone - labor cost is no more because you can send the finished product back, avoidable costs are now avoided, opportunity costs took flight with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, resource cost are gone along with scarcity because you know where it is and can send it back, transport costs are gone because a time machine is a ftl device... you basically get dumped into functional utopian communism by default as unique self actualized services are the only thing the time machine doesn't provide for. Even if you want to put it down that you can't use it as a way to instantly make any good, then just call forward 50 years and ask for the detailed plans to build a robot, and your labor costs are still gone. Hook a time machine up to a computer and you get an oracle, and with it shatter every underlying, baked in assumption that makes the current status quo.
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Apr 2, 2015 04:06
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idonotlikepeas posted:So is Patrick genuinely upset here, or is he just trying to distract Alison from what he almost-but-didn't reveal? (My money is on "both".) He is manipulating her. The guy flat out explained that the way he controlled people is he read their thoughts so he knew what to tell them to get them to willingly do what he wanted. That he is pulling the strings on Alison isn't even subtext, its just text.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:55
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Captain Oblivious posted:The conspiracy is absolutely real. There's no other way to really explain detailed dossiers about super powered insividuals and eliminating them before anyone knew super powered individuals knew they had super powers. The storm is definitely man made.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:36
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Warmachine posted:I love it when Patrick indulges his villain monologues. Really? Because I think it's another part of how the writing has gone straight down the drain in this chapter and the last.
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Apr 17, 2015 18:55
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That has to be the most awkward way to ask "are you a rapist" I have ever seen.
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Apr 24, 2015 15:43
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Classtoise posted:This B-plot overtaking the A-plot is fast eroding any sort of interest I had for this comic or praise I had for the writer. We are down at like E or F plot now. A - overarching plot, how to fix the world B - plot of this chapter, Mary's murder spree C - Alison's life and career question, getting a grad advisor D - intersection of B and C, Alison and her friends and how they act to getting drawn into super powered events E - what the gently caress is up with Patrick, very loosely tied to C and A. The need to tie everything together and back on itself is throwing off pacing, training tension created by useful ambiguity, and muddles the whole thing. Yes, every thing matters, but you need to understand the relative strength of who and when you are having signal things, and it is ok to be brief and subtle about it. Particularly since this is a comic and you can do it visually instead of having it spelt out in dialogue.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:15
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Yeah that last panel isn't well-conveyed at all. It doesn't look physical, maybe she's chewing him out in her head and he obviously can't avoid it? She backhanded him into the wall. She pulls him close, he is getting overwhelmed feeling her emotions (he starts crying with her), he pulls "you know nothing Alison Greene", she leans back and raises her arm, he continues mouthing off so she backhands him with the arm she had just raised, last panel both her arms are down having completed the swing and he collides with the wall
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May 1, 2015 13:03
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CapnAndy posted:Yeah, but Patrick is a telepathic super-genius master manipulator with the accumulative knowledge of multiple lifetimes of geniuses, and Allison is just running rings around him. Not really. If we were playing chess and in response to your making a series of moves I upended the board, would you say I was running rings around you? Its beating him in the whole Gordian knot sort of way - when you can't win, change the game. Very different from being a superior player. She can't out talk him or out reason him or out manipulate him, but she can sure as poo poo out intimidate him.
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May 9, 2015 03:28
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Ok, I'm done.
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May 12, 2015 13:22
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Basically Something Positive is Questionable Content, but with character growth
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May 30, 2015 02:11
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Harime Nui posted:The actual punchline of this arc is the main girl having to learn this total rear end in a top hat is untouchable by the law and she can't do poo poo about it What crime has he committed?
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May 30, 2015 16:42
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Harime Nui posted:No I mean, if the Flame Dude killed the serial killer and got a tickertape parade, and Allison knows he actually killed a troubled young woman but the public loves him and she has to eat that. It's where I'd take the story but I'm not writing it. Ok so he hasn't broken any law, its just your fan fiction
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May 31, 2015 03:47
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Gorilla Salad posted:It occurs to me, that maybe he raped her. That would be the most insipid, hackneyed poo poo possible It is totally what will turn out to be the case
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Sep 5, 2015 17:11
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