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Powercrazy posted:That is really weird. Why the gently caress would someone do this? People are dumb and don't know what's legal. I had the cops called on me for loading rifles into a car to go target shooting when I was in college. The neighbors who called the cops was from NYC and didn't realize that laws differ between NYC and a small city in Indiana.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:13
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for me, but at least it makes some sense.
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Powercrazy posted:
No it isn't. When the cop showed up he asked if I would be shooting at a range or other legal space then told the girl she had wasted his time. She called the cops on her neighbor because she saw me putting rifle cases and some ammunition in my car. I hadn't realized she was the reason he rolled up until then, which was kind of a dick move to her on the cop's part but I'm not some grudge holding weirdo so I didn't freak out on her. If everyone who saw a gun get put in a car called the cops in on Indiana then the cops would need like a thousand phone lines during hunting seasons. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 20:06
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Shouldn't the 911 operator have told her there's plenty of legal reasons for putting a gun in your trunk, and that she lives in America where due to freedoms you sometimes have to mind your own business when you don't feel like it? Maybe but I've no idea how she worded it when she called he cops.
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Jan 23, 2015 20:14
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welcome posted:Source please. He knows everyone who isn't a cop and doesn't know any cops, gotcha sucker 
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Jan 29, 2015 19:10
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Vahakyla posted:The solution naturally is to establish better oversight and accountability in all professions, with policing being up there. But societal change is also needed for a faster pace to succeed, because most of the people in this country are hostile to change. This is like showing up to a #BlackLivesMatter rally with an #AllLivesMatter banner or showing up to a conference about heart disease and saying "BUT ALL DISEASES!" People are extra concerned about cops because a bad cop can kill you or ruin your life and then use a variety of systems and unions to protect themselves. A bad DMV employee can, what, be a dick to you verbally and make you wait in line a lot or refuse to give you a registration based on some tiny technicality? If I could make cops 50% better and the DMV 50% worse in exchange, I'd do it in a heartbeat, despite how awful a lot of DMVs are. It doesn't even compare. And if you tell people cops can't be fixed until the whole of society is fixed, they kinda go 
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Jan 30, 2015 15:33
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Putting terrorism and protests on a civil unrest scale might make sense. Putting protests on a terrorism scale doesn't.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:25
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This is getting way off topic but a ton of protests are intentionally illegal in a minor way and part of the point is that you're committing mild illegal civil disobedience but the cops generally don't dare arrest every one of you and either arrest no one or just the worst offenders or just whoever they feel like loving with. 1000 people on an interstate chanting is a protest. One person on a highway yelling is arrested.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:38
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Decades posted:And which of these two scenarios warrants an elite standing army of spartancops? I never said either did.
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Jan 30, 2015 20:42
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ActusRhesus posted:Nah. This one is so open and shut it would be given to one of our rookies. We only use experienced attorneys to defend the more skillful police abuse.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:00
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Powercrazy posted:Here is a crazy idea, are the crowds doing anything except being there and chanting? If not, then no one needs to do anything. Being there can still be quite a pain in the rear end if "there" is a road or public space other people need to use. If protestors are looking to clog up the steps of the courthouse for a few hours all the police really need is a couple of observers to report if things get out of hand.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:28
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Powercrazy posted:In theory the police come and arrest them, that has nothing to do with a protest, you also don't need "advanced tactics" in order to arrest an individual who is destroying property. I'm pretty FTP but if the people destroying property are within a mob of thousands of people, then you probably do need different tactics than if it's just one rear end in a top hat breaking into a business where a couple of deputies can just wander up and cuff the guy and maybe deal with a small fight. To take it to extremes, imagine only dispatching cops on a call-by-call basis to try to arrest individuals without bothering the group during a soccer hooligan riot. That would be dumb as hell, and even European police forces that very, very rarely kill people don't do that. edit for autocorrect issues mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 22:39
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DARPA posted:"People" are using it. To protest. What you mean is "other more important people need to use" it. Oh, cool, so I imagine that if protestors decided to block off your street, preventing you from getting to work in a car* in order to protest that NASA needs to admit the moon landing was fake, you wouldn't want them removed by force if necessary? In case you think streets are special, what if NAMBLA decided to shut down the park where kids usually play for a protest? Or if PETA shut down the dog park? This is the kind of asinine, childish poo poo that makes those of us who really, really want police culture to change look like clowns. *If you come back saying "I walk/train/bike to work " then imagine for a second that you are a person who relies on a car to commute.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:56
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Feral Integral posted:People should just not be allowed to protest in large attention-getting numbers (say, bigger than 4-5 people) because it does nothing but inconvenience people. What is wrong with these protesting people anyway, just go do your jobs like the rest of us. BRB protesting the state of healthcare in this country by blocking in all the exits from the ambulance motorpool. This is ok, right?
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Jan 31, 2015 23:38
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bango skank posted:Welp, since there's the possibility fluoride protesters will block ambulances we better tear gas these college kids. Slippery slope and all. This kind of idiocy is what makes adults who think cops are out of control look like whiny kids. It turns out it's possible to think that police need serious reforms without literally arguing that any and all assembly should just be ignored or that it's not idiotic to ask "why do cops even exist?" all the time.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:35
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There seems to be a disconnect where people think that having a legal recourse against protests that shut down public infrastructure is the exact same as saying that no one should ever protest. If protest is brutally crushed, the state is a bad state. If protest has no recourse at all, it's kind of meaningless, as the crazy cat lady could shut down an interstate for no reason at all. This isn't hard.
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Feb 1, 2015 01:54
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bango skank posted:Pretending all protests inevitably lead to the raving hordes seizing control of vital public resources and using it as an excuse to crack down on any form of civil disobedience surely makes you look like an adult and not an out of touch moron. Hey go find where I ever wrote that. Good luck
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Feb 1, 2015 02:00
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So I guess cops should protect crowds of the majority who organize to block minorities from getting to work. lol if cops really worked that way, it would be the worst poo poo ever.
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Feb 1, 2015 02:09
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SedanChair posted:No to both, I am specifically talking about special units trained to respond to demonstrations. That's all we've been talking about for several pages. No there are posters who have been arguing that police should simply not even respond to protests at all. And they are wrong. At least they are so far removed from how the world works that they can be ignored.
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Feb 1, 2015 11:13
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ActusRhesus posted:That's not what I was saying. Where did you get defending out of that? I was mostly being flippant rather than making a proper argument, so I'll retract the statement.
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Feb 1, 2015 15:03
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SedanChair posted:There are many protests that do not require the firm, guiding presence of Mr. Policeman, and if you disagree you are so far removed from how the world works that you can be ignored. This is, again, a thing that I agree with. The specific argument I was calling out as stupid is that there should be no recourse from cops when protesters take over public space for an extended period of time and that cops should not show up at all during protests where there is violent crime being committed and instead dispatch cops purely in a responsive manner then try to find the handful of jerks who started smashing in windows rather than already being nearby and watching protesters so that, IF someone becomes violent, they can be more proactive. Not controversial stuff.
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Feb 1, 2015 16:02
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Nonetheless the motion to create a create a seven member civilian oversight board looks certain to pass St Louis City Council later this month. Hopefully, the police will eventually get over it or forget and get back to doing their jobs just despite someone having oversight over their actions.
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Feb 1, 2015 17:08
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Lemming posted:Uh, yes? Do you not murder people because you already don't want to, or just because it's illegal? I guess financial regulations are dumb; obviously wall street will just choose not to be exploitative if we repeal regulations and make the police/authorities even more toothless in fighting financial abuse. Remember when desegregation went off without a hitch and didn't even require the US Army to get involved in order to stop the racist white people from being horrible monsters? Basically: Vahakyla posted:Murder is not comparable to all forms of crime. Rent-A-Cop posted:If shitposting was a crime we'd all be doin' twenty to life. edit: In less stupid news, Selma is a good movie and has all sorts of protest tactics in it. I can't vouch for its specific accuracy, because I am not a time traveler.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:40
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Lemming posted:most people don't break the law not because they don't want to get arrested but because most people are willing to follow reasonable rules to make everyone get along better. I disagree. If humanity worked that way things like climate change and corruption and racism and homophobia wouldn't be a problem. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 02:48
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Lemming posted:None of those things are illegal though so what's your point? Do you not realize that laws exist to curtail climate change, stop corruption, ban racist practices, and ban homophobic oppression?
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Feb 2, 2015 03:32
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Lemming posted:Some people really do need the police man with the sign, yes, which is why I said "generally" and "most people" and "for the most part" and never "literally everybody." Back before all these different regulations most people just elected not to engage in slavery or child labor or race based pay, right? Most people are terrible either through ignorance or malice or both, but it turns out a combination of social pressure, civil watchdogs, and policing can make them act less terribly.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:14
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Trabisnikof posted:They already do, thus the lack of complaints about police brutality among the white and wealthy. Woosh.
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Feb 2, 2015 18:10
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This American Life focusing on policing for the next two weeks. Haven't finished listening to it, so no idea where they're really going yet. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/
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Feb 10, 2015 01:29
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Powercrazy posted:That's not even getting into the ridiculous Tom Clancy scenario where the average beat cop would need a muzzle mounted flashlight in the first place. Yeah, Tom Clancy scenarios like aiming in low light or identifying your targets before you fire on them. Insane! But yeah, for looking around in a building when you aren't actively being shot at, use a completely separate flashlight that isn't mounted to a gun.
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Feb 12, 2015 12:36
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Booourns posted:Like you said, identifying your targets by pointing your gun at them seems kinda bad. Sometimes there are targets in close proximity with with nontargets while you're in low light. And sometimes cops actually do give someone a chance to drop a weapon or obey commands and its hard to see that in the dark without a light. Then consider felony arrests and stops at night. It's standard for cops to arrest even a surrendering violent felon at gun point in the USA. I'd prefer that if they are doing so at night they can see rather than trying to arrest people in the dark with their guns out. Lights on guns are a damned safety feature unless some idiot is using a light on a gun purely as a flashlight when there is no reason to have a gun out. Of all the loving things to whine about, a tool that allows humans to see better before employing deadly force, ffs.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:22
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RareAcumen posted:Did he need his finger on the trigger while sweeping his gun around for light though? I'm not defending officer Murderface who killed a guy. I'm calling out the incredibly dumb posts that can't fathom why a light would ever be mounted on weapons outside of Tom Clancy novels. Not that hard.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:33
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Radish posted:If the mantra is "don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy" having an officer's sole source of light on his gun seems like a REALLY bad plan. Good thing it isn't
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Feb 12, 2015 19:41
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SedanChair posted:Yeah I don't think the NYPD is really clued in to the four rules. Especially the whole "keep your booger hook out of the loving trigger guard" thing. I'm sure you're trolling but for those who don't know, even departments that mount lights on pistols issue flashlights. It's far more common to lack a weapon light than lack a flashlight.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:54
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Lol this stupid derail is a moot point, the shooter in this case had a separate flashlight from his weapon. He drew a flashlight and also his gun if the news can be trusted.
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Feb 12, 2015 20:43
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Powercrazy posted:It's a good thing he had a tactically mounted flashlight so that he could identify his target before murdering him. I guess the light should have been brighter? I can't decide if D&D is full of more trolls or more illiterate people.
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Feb 12, 2015 21:55
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Well cops don't level city blocks. They lack the resources  But now you're just trying to prod the wasp nest by bringing up I/P and we all know it.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:31
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SedanChair posted:I'm glad we didn't make it 3 posts before you were not allowed to get away with this lie. Well I was making a joke and knew full well the would be examples. I mean, didn't some cops take part in the Tulsa race riots complete with air support? Sometimes jokes aren't strictly factual. The is used as a social cue that someone is not entirely serious hth.
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Feb 13, 2015 02:04
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