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lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Section Z posted:


See also "And then the world ended anyways!" as the finale making for a better story, and expecting your DnD party to act impressed by it "Because everyone loves it in call of Chtullu games!" without the requisite satisfying lead up so they feel it was still time well spent to get the prime material plain disintegrated by Lobtar, Omniscient space lobster.

The next time I run a campaign, I'm going to have to include a sleepy fishing village that propitiates Lobtar, omniscient god of seas, death, and lobsters, in the hopes that they will be spared a little while longer the unceasing hunger that fuels Lobtar's unending growth. Lobtar cares not if people eat crustaceans, because all life begins in the oceans and all life eventually returns, where Lobtar rests and feeds and grows.


Novum posted:

If I want to slap together a class archetype what are your benchmarks for how powerful each archetype ability should be by tier?

I don't have a ton of experience homebrewing in 5e, but good questions to ask would be "what archetype would I normally pick for this class" and "is this better/worse/about the same compared to what already exists." Do you have more details on what you have in mind?

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lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Maybe a better way to manage it is to break it into two smaller packages of "casting spells" and "killing mages?" Stealing spells is kind of a tricky concept when you're not guaranteed to fight magical enemies.

Level 1: Once per short rest, dust a 30' radius around yourself with anti-magic particles, forcing all casters to make a concentration check of DC (8+proficiency+CHA).

Level 6: Once per short rest, add your CHA modifier to any saving throw made against any magical effect.

Level 10: Gain resistance to damage from spells.

Level 14: Once per long rest, create a 30' antimagic bubble around yourself that stifles all magic except your own.

And maybe if you break someone's concentration or kill a magical enemy, you can regain one use of a per-short rest ability or something.

I dunno, this isn't exactly inspired, but hopefully it's functional.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Sorcadin is an explosively powerful multiclass, and Pal 2/Sorc X is arguably the strongest split in the long run, assuming you don't have to muddle through levels 1-6. You get neat tricks like Hold Person into Quickened Green Flame Blade smite, and if they fail their Wis save you get to smash them with an auto-crit smite, and with a Sorceror's spell pool you can throw big smites all day.

If you're playing with pointbuy, my favorite way to start is with 15 in str/con/cha and 8 in dex/int/wis; as a variant Human you can bump up one of them (say, CON) with a half-feat like Resilient (CON) and bump the other two with your normal ability bumps, so you start with 16s in everything important and 8s in everything else. With Warcaster, you can also stop worrying about the complications of casting in melee.

I guess we'll have to add the multiclass spell table to 5e's big bucket of good ideas that didn't quite pan out.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Subjunctive posted:

How does this part work? I followed the rest!

Attacks against paralyzed enemies, like those successfully hit by Hold Person, are made at advantage and will always crit, which doubles up not just your weapon dice but also your smite dice. You can cast Hold Person normally, and if it lands, you can use Sorcery points on metamagic to quicken a melee cantrip like Green Flame Blade for a big, meaty smite.

Edit: I lied, quicken the Hold Person and normally cast your preferred melee cantrip; 5e editing strikes again.




Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Half-Elf would let you bump one of those 8s up to 10.

Half-elf also gets you a 16/16/16 spread, you're right, so it's a choice of whether you'd rather negate a penalty in a secondary stat or have a half-feat; Resilient and Heavy Armor Mastery come to mind as pretty solid ones. I think years of 3.5 have given me a bias against butterknife-eared half-elves and in favor of the Free Feat Human Master Race, though.

lightrook fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Aug 7, 2018

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

The Dregs posted:


Problem is that ranger is a mess? Apparently the one in the PHB sucks, and has been rewritten a few times or something. It confuses me. Can someone give me a little advice on making a ranger given the guidelines above?

There's a Revised Ranger out there, which is semi-official and generally less garbage than the vanilla PHB ranger.

Alternatively, if your goal is just shooting dudes, Battlemaster Fighter is pretty good at it, too. With Crossbow Expert, you can shoot twice a turn with a Hand Crossbow, and you can pick up Sharpshooter later for a little extra firepower, although I guess crossbows might be a little late-medieval for a Conan-esque setting. If that's an issue, then maybe ask nicely if you can reflavor it as some kind of shortbow?

You can use Precision attack to offset Sharpshooter penalties, for example, or enable your teammates with Distracting Strike. I get the vague feeling that Battlemaster was probably not intended to work with ranged attacks, but for the most part it does, so shoot away.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Glagha posted:

I dunno I've never had a problem with AC. People raise good points about how rolling a d20 against a chance to either Do Something or Do Nothing sucks but whatever it is what it is. Honestly I think an interesting fix would be to give fighters "miss is half damage" stuff like spells get. If we're accepting hp as an abstraction of luck, fatigue, and will, a failed attack that clangs off someone's shield could still do damage, fatiguing their shield arm and making it less likely they'll defend successfully and bringing them closer to a lethal blow.

Wasn't there a Fighter At-Will from 4e that guaranteed you'd deal your STR modifier on a miss? I know the Fell-Handed feat is similar, but honestly Champion and/or Brute would probably be fine if they had something like that to were guaranteed a little damage on a miss.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Kommando posted:

About to start the Storm King's thunder
New character ideas : sorcerer.

Was not born with it but joined a pilgrimage at 13 to a ancient dragons lair to petition it for power.

Answered riddles or gave a good offering?
Thinking chromatic dragon. Blue or green.
Does the thread have any backstory suggestions or personality traits?

Literally as far as I've gotten.

Some questions to flesh out a backstory:

Why did you join the pilgrimage - were your reasons personal, familial, financial, or political?

What happened to the other pilgrims, dead en-route, eaten by dragon, or just turned away, and how do you feel about it?

How do you feel about having sorcerous powers - love it, hate it, or maybe mixed?

What are your goals now, in the short- (about a month), medium- (about a year), and long- (about a decade) term?

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Subjunctive posted:

Why is it called a coffeelock?

Warlocks regain their spell slots on a short rest; Sorcerer can eat any spell slots to generate sorcery points, which can use to create more spell slots.

Coffeelock got its name from the fact that you never want to take a long rest, because doing so would wipe your bonus spell slots. Instead, you take only short rests to recover warlock spells, and then eat them for sorcery points that turn into bonus Sorcerer spell slots. A sorlock can gain a lot of spells per day this way, but you also never get to sleep, hence coffeelock. Usually this required being an elf to get around the consequences of sleep deprivation, but there's also an Invocation now that lets anybody from any race get away with not sleeping. Also Warforged as superior mechanical beings have none of the weaknesses of frail meatbags and therefor don't require sleep either.

fake edit: im slow

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

The most annoying thing about monk that jumps out at me is that using anything but a 1d6 weapon in the early levels seems like a sucker's choice. Really, Martial Arts damage should have started at 1d6 so you don't feel like an idiot for not using a shortsword. The whole point of playing a monk is to punch people, so it's a real punch in the mouth when the rules make it so mechanically suboptimal to punch people.

I guess it's just not real DND unless monks are systematically screwed over by the system.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Wow, so unarmed strikes are somehow even worse than I thought. And Open Hand doesn't even require, you know, an open hand to apply any of its effects. So 5e really hates letting us punch people.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

CeallaSo posted:

I mean, it makes sense that you would need a crutch in the beginning, doesn't it? You haven't even really settled into your role; the adventure you're on is as much a part of your training as everything that came before it.

And it's not even like you have to be optimal, if you're really dedicated to being a punchman. You're losing 1 point of damage in the early levels, which is made up for by the fact that you get to punch multiple times. (1d4+4)x2 averages 12, which compares favorably with a fighter's 2d6+4 (10). It eats your bonus action, sure, but it's not like you were using it for anything else to begin with. And that's what you get without spending the ki point for flurry.

How are you getting a +4 damage on your attacks? A +4 damage modifier shouldn't be possible in 5e until your first ASI at the earliest without the help of class features like Fighting Style: Dueling.

The real problem, though, is that punching people is much, much worse than two-handing for 1d8 damage. At level 1, a fighter with a two-hander does 2d6+3 (10), a monk throwing punches does 2d4+6 (11), and a monk with a spear does 2d8+6 (15). The gap only widens when you flurry, since getting a third hit in is an extra 50% damage, and the deficit grows from 4 points to 6 points. Monks get a lot of their damage from landing a large volume of hits, so losing damage per hit hurts them even more than it would for, say, a paladin or barbarian who only needs to land one big swing.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

MonsterEnvy posted:

Oh ok. Don't watch too many movies.

And I don't have PM's because SA refuses to take paypal.

I guess I'll be the one to ruin the surprise but the long and short of it is that there's a scene where a guy talks at length about the proper procedure for disposing a dead body by feeding it to pigs.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Splicer posted:

You're thinking the fluff in 5E is at all useful for trying to build your guy. This is foolish! Tell me, how would you like it to play

Not that I have personal experience with it, but probably poorly? Besides sharing an ability score, the two classes don't really support each other, since monk features need monk levels for progression. Unarmored defense is rarely better than even Scale Mail and shield, and a Cleric's bonus action is already a pretty contested resource, with Spiritual Weapon being the most prominent example. Sacred Fist was a neat prestige class in 3.5 that made it work, but I don't see much support for it in 5e.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Conspiratiorist posted:

Be mindful most of the classes being mentioned in this discussion pack medium armor and shields for defense.

So, like, discuss with your DM if they'll let you refluff PLATE ARMOR as an anime dress, or alternatively accept your AC is going to be uncomfortably low for a melee combatant.

Samurai-style armor basically already has a giant armored skirt, so it's really just a few decorative bits and oversized sleeves away from being an armored dress. :pseudo:

Let's just avoid going down the rabbit hole of over-analyzing which exact piece of heavy armor best translates to Far Eastern armor and just settle that it's definitely in the ballpark of "heavy," though.

I'm actually playing a vaguely-Touhou inspired Sorcadin shrine priestess right now, and her morningstar was actually a gohei wrapped in barbed wire and nails. Her deity's basically a regional manager in the cosmic hierarchy, so she plays the role of a disgruntled employee.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

CeallaSo posted:

I'm working on homebrew stuff and I'm honestly considering just gouging darkvision out entirely. In my actual play experience, it serves no purpose.

It's fine and negligible until you have a DM that gets irrationally excited by the prospect of having more fiddly bits to fiddle with.

In other words, how do I tell my well-intentioned, relatively-inexperienced, and somewhat-overzealous DM that expecting us to track how many silvers we're carrying and whether spells have verbal, somatic, and/or material components is not the height of tabletop gaming? I guess if I don't track them then he probably won't notice, but after he read the nitty-gritty details of spellcasting he seems unreasonably excited to tell either of the party's paladins that they can't, in fact, cast Bless if their hands are full holding equipment.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

I feel compelled to point out that while Zak S and the RPGPundit are terrible people, they are also terrible game designers.

Do I need to link the Zak S rule challenge?

If I asked for a quick gist, how much would I regret it?

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

ProfessorCirno posted:

Bards have always been good and cool, and grogs hating it has only ever strengthened both of these facts.


Quoted for truth.

I'm pretty sure the reason grognards hate bards so much is because they're the ones perpetuating the stereotypes whenever they explain why they hate bards, effectively creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My experience only goes back to 3.5, but I don't understand how people can undervalue bard when it was printed in the same book as, for example, monk and ranger.

The only upshot to the bard-hate circle-jerk is that 5e knee-jerked in the opposite direction to make bard literally the strongest and most versatile class in the game.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

beeoi posted:

I'd have to assume people praising the 3E bard are following the tier-driven mindcalk of All Casters>All Half-Casters>All Martials in All Situations Ever when the reality is a lot more complicated.

A properly specialized Bard is blatantly, hilariously overpowered in regards to social circumstances. It's basically a 100 Speech Fallout character even at level 1, and is essentially a mind control wizard from level 8 onward. But this is actually a problem from a design perspective, because social encounters are the least-used D&D "pillar" and have *by far* the most DM adjudication and control. So unless you cast Charm Person willy-nilly, it's very possible that the DM will simply ignore your Diplomacy rolls. And despite being great at social encounters, they are merely ok in combat if given EXTREME specialization--and this is with all the great options Bards get in PHB2 and 3. In a PHB1 only game, it's practically impossible to make a Bard useful in combat as anything but a living aid bonus.

And it doesn't end there:
  • They have a d6 hit die and virtually zero methods of protection, in an edition where monster damage is notoriously high. Their best defensive tactic for the first 7 levels of the game is loving Expeditious Retreat. They don't even really get proper movement spells until level 11, even the Ranger or any character with a multiclass dip into Wizard or Druid would fair better in that regard.
  • A shockingly large amount of Bard spells have huge penalties or flat-out do not work on creatures that do not understand your language, and these spells are often not very good even against creatures that do.
  • Something people often forget about 3E is that although you get lots of skill points, your skills are capped at criminally low numbers for the entirety of the game. So despite the Bard trying to be the ultimate skill monkey, they are literally unable to do most basic bardic concepts at an acceptable success rate, especially at low levels.
  • Even Cleric healing is pretty pathetic relative to the rate at which you gain spell levels, so you can imagine how useless Bard healing is.

Even if the Bard somehow was good for more than Inspire Courage and social encounters with a lot of optimization, it wouldn't really matter in my eyes because Bards are definitely among the least intuitive classes there are--maybe not as bad as the Rogue, where shanking people in melee is one of the least effective things you could be doing, but still pretty bad as far as "user-friendly optimization" goes. If your DM doesn't allow you to integrate features from absurdly specific and obscure books, your best option is to get a 1 level dip in Crusader so you can actually do things in combat, and exploit the gently caress out of spells that the Wizard gets more use of (and gets earlier) like Grease, Glitterdust, and Haste. No one interested in the Bard as it is portrayed would be able to figure this out without being told.

It should also go without saying that a character that has loving mind-control powers but is at best slightly above average in combat, flavored as a twee theatre student, is basically a perfect recipe for disaster and particularly appealing towards people with little sense of tact, as noted from the awful stories earlier on in the thread.

TL, DR: Punish not the class for the sins of the player.

Sounds like the problem is player knowledge and not class design, then. I get that bard optimization is not intuitive, but neither is anything else in 3.5, so I don't think that's a fair knock on bard when literally all the Core half-casters and full-martials are basically steaming dumpster fires under the same circumstances.

I realize a lot of power for a lot of classes and concepts come from splatbook material, but bards hold up pretty well straight out of the box, too. Obviously they can't compete with full casters, but even with 2/3 casting, they're still head-and-shoulders above pretty much everything else. There's a lot of chaff in their spell list, but there's also enough winners to fill out your spells known allowance without issue. Durability is... acceptable but not great, and still comparable to the other light-armored martials, and that's before access to defensive spells like Mirror Image and Blur. And then there's the Alter Self exciting can of worms...

I don't disagree with your points, but I think they're more symptomatic of deeper, systemic problems with 3.5 and maybe cultural problems with the DND player population than issues intrinsic to the bard class specifically.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

RC Cola posted:

Guys I went to the hulkamania store in Clearwater this weekend. I am reaffirmed in wanting to play as basically hulk hogan

Lore Bard Hulk Hogan with Cutting Words to intimidate people and full casting to make the showmanship real? Expertise in Athletics means bards are actually a shockingly good fit for it.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

RC Cola posted:

Friends I'm a level 1 rogue gnome that just hit level 2 and am debating multiclassing into wizard full time. Can I still wear light armor? Is there any real downside to a wizard with 1 level of rogue?

Your ability to wear armor is limited only by your armor proficiency, if any. Sorcadins are fine to walk around casting spells in full plate, for example.

The downside to being Rogue 1/Wizard 1 is not being level 2 in anything, which could matter depending on which class features are important to you. At Rogue 3, though, you get your pick of rogue archetypes, among which is Arcane Trickster. Because of the way multiclass spellcasting works, you could take 4 levels of Rogue and switch to wizard full-time, and only lose 2 levels of spell slot progression, since Arcane Trickster is a half-caster.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Tetracube posted:

joining a dragon heist game and playing a bard, I gotta think of an interesting character concept but I'm stumped. ideas?

I've been kicking around an idea in my head of a lore bard that's a hardened army captain. Bardic inspiration is barking orders at your allies, and Cutting Words is intimidating your enemies and ordering them to die. Expertise in Athletics means you can make good on your threats to choke the life out of people, too.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Splicer posted:

Nope, its 1/3 caster. You only get 1/3 of your level, rounded down.

Oof, you're right, forgot how bad Arcane Tricksters have it. In that case, jumping ship for wizard and staying with it is fine.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

gradenko_2000 posted:


* a Cleric would always be able to "convert" a slot into a Cure X Wounds spell, no matter what was already armed in it
* a Druid would always be able to "convert" a slot into a Summon X Monster spell, no matter what was already armed in it
* a Sorcerer would have fewer spell slots, and only have a set and specific set of Spells Known, but their spell slots were mutable across all spells

For 5e to change all spellcasting to the mutable spell-slot model actually loses a lot of flavor, and while it's simplified in some ways, it's also more complex in others, specifically in the analysis-paralysis department of a player's in-the-moment spellcasting choices.

It also creates this situation where a Wizard is "combat effective" for far longer than they otherwise might be, since now they can keep devoting spell slots to combat spells as the need arises, as opposed to earlier instances where as soon as you ran the Magic-User out of Fireball slots, they couldn't help the party kill orcs anymore - the erosion of this model is to the detriment of the Fighter's (or other martial class's) niche, since it now takes much longer to get to their "time to shine".

:goonsay:

Ackshully, if you're talking about 3.5, Sorcerers had more spells per day, on top of total mutability of spell slots, and they were still considered a cut below wizards in terms of raw power, who had, resources permitting, total access to the entirety of their spell list as long as you could find a way to write everything into your spellbook.

I think spellcasters are still supreme in 5e; concentration puts certain limits on how much you can do at any one time, but other changes were definitely in their favor. Like gradenko said, prepared casters don't exist anymore and you're no longer forced to painstakingly designate each and every spell for each and every slot, with limited flexibility to change things on the fly, so you're no longer earmarking spell slots for non-combat utility spells and potentially have your full store of spell slots for each combat encounter. On top of that, multiclassing is much less punishing for spell casters, since you're losing a lot less caster progression for branching out into other full- and half-caster classes, for example; you don't advance your highest level spell known, but you do advance your spells per day table, and upcasting lets you utilize your highest level slots even when you don't have the spells to fill them. Ritual casting pushes the gap even further, since some of your utility spells won't even cost a slot, and cantrips let you further pace yourself without having to idly twiddle your thumbs.

For a practical example, Sorcadin is now just sorcerer and paladin, and doesn't require half a dozen mediocre feats to hop between four different prestige classes in order to avoid missing precious caster levels and BAB.

And the martials lost a lot too, if we're comparing to 3.5. The one thing a barb/fighter arguably did better than most casters was being able to do lots and lots of damage, at any time, all the time, generally by power attacking. Like, nearly an order of magnitude more.

Now everybody's damage numbers are bounded, so martials lost that advantage, and casters have an even easier time trouncing non-combat encounters without spending resources.

Fake edit: and I'm slow to the punch. oof.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

dreadmojo posted:

I think that's underestimating the effect a little, i can shut down a huge mob of low wisdom enemies with a hypnotic pattern, but that locks out a lot of my strongest spells and can break if i take damage. It's a clever, flavoursome nerf to save/suck spells and buffs while not affecting blasty spells.

What are the op caster tactics? We're intending to invite strahd to a party and murder him soon so i could do with some nasty tricks.

e: ^^ good points.

If you catch everyone of interest in a hypnotic pattern, you don't really need to cast more spells when you can let the rest of your party use their short rest and all-day resources to play whack-a-mole on each sucker to prevent any of them from doing anything of interest after breaking free.

I think it's an improvement in game health that they've closed the gap between blasting and SoDs by buffing the former and nerfing the latter, because balancing the game is easier and more straightforward if everyone interacts on the same axis (i.e. dealing damage). Now if only they'd make martials a bit better at, well, anything and everything.

As for Strahd, I think the usual trick is to use Wall of Force to put him in a magic hamster ball to cut off any and all exits. From there, you and your party can torch him with anything that doesn't require Line of Effect(? or is it sight?). But the nature of the setting also means that he has the power of DM fiat to plausibly call in more minions at any time, from any place, so I wouldn't get too comfortable. Because why would a supremely ancient, powerful, and intelligent being walk into potential danger without having some kind of backup plan for insurance?

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Azhais posted:

sacred flame just doesn't allow cover to help the save, pretty sure that wouldn't work.

3.5/PF had a higher level version of daylight that was literally just "the sun is up, it affects anything with sun aversions normally", does anything like that still exist? Don't know that a WoF would protect him from the sun coming up

Flamestrike might work? The spell doesn't say anything about projectiles, targets, or line of sight; you designate a cylinder and it gets torched.

By all logical reasoning, Fireball shouldn't work, since it's always described as a ball of fire that flies out and explodes. Strictly speaking, however, the spell only specifies an area of choice and not a line of sight/effect or target. Ask your DM?

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Section Z posted:

While I am very glad they kept no more "Level 1 wizard cast a spell and now he's dead weight until your next camp out"?

It's incredibly sad that the tired old cookie cutter claims are still in use despite that.

"You can swing your sword all day long! I can only cast magic missile and hold person so many times a day!"

"You took Magic Missile and Hold Person as your 'Can cast infinity amount of times' options"

"But that's only if I cast them at their lowest level!!!"

On one hand, 18th level is high enough that people should be getting powerful and exciting options.

On the other hand, "I never run out of magic, ever" is absolutely not equal to the fighter's "I do one more damage, on average, when I use a maneuver, which are still limited per encounter." I mean, if a fighter could use one or two maneuvers any time, all the time, without spending superiority dice or even an action, it still wouldn't really come close, although that might be a good start.

When a fighter's only job description is that he fights, would it have killed WotC to at least make them good at it?

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

AlphaDog posted:

Yes.

Literally yes.

But now I've already said too much.

You're completely right, and I hate the game so much for it.

At least 5e gives casters a lot of options for Being Martials, But Better.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

AlphaDog posted:

What's "realistic" about this?

My guess is that 10 is the magic number because that's a creature's base AC without any bonuses from any source, which I guess is not so much about "realism" with respect to reality as it is with respect to the game rules. I wouldn't do things this way if I were implementing a "damage on miss" rule, but I think that's the rationale.

I'll comment that 4e also introduced the concept of "bloodied" which implies that someone at half health has taken some amount of injury to bleed from, but I think it's sensible for HP to be some vague and nonspecific mix of stamina, luck, and blood.

And geez every day in this thread reaffirms that the worst part of D&D has always been the players.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

mastershakeman posted:

Damage on a miss immediately gets really hard to adjudicate edge cases with and its a weird thing to get stuck on

Like do i have to start tracking how many inches away my melee swings are so that its a miss vs someone out of range? Ok fine reach solves that i guess but how he hell do you deal with someone hiding behind hard cover vs a hundred archers? Bla bla bla

The real solution is to combine the damage and attack rolls so youre never not doing damage

The thing that makes it tricky is that D&D only has AC as the main axis of defense, which means you'll "miss" a lot trying to hit someone weighed down by their full plate and shield. That's not to say you didn't make contact, but on a miss your attack might have been deflected by their armor or blocked by their shield or parried by their weapon, while a hit means you slipped past their defenses and cut deep where it hurts. This is kind of implied by the rules, but not really outright stated in official materials.

In that sense, damage on a "miss" means your swing glancing off their armor or bouncing off their shield still hurts a bit; it's just a lot less than if you actually "hit."

As for why D&D does things this way instead of separating attack evasion from damage reduction, I think it goes back to its naval wargaming roots or something dumb like that, where your shots either bounced off the enemy hull or punched through and dealt damage. By now, it's too much of a sacred cow to really change it.

edit: why the hell does our fantasy role playing game use rules from a naval war simulator

lightrook fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 10, 2018

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188


This is funny and slightly uncomfortable and too impactful to not turn your campaign into Toriko/Dungeon Meshi, which may or may not be a good thing for you. Four burgers ground from sentient beings out of five.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

In It For The Tank posted:

You can technically make two attacks on the turn you summon it (one as part of your action when you summon it and one with your bonus action) for 6d10, which makes it a little bit less poo poo, but for that level spell slot it's definitely not worth it.

I'm not even sure if that argument actually works, since the cleric only spends a bonus action to cast Spiritual Weapon and still has their action to make an attack or cast another spell or something.

I guess when when the best spells are meant to be balanced by concentration, the mediocre ones become godawful.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Section Z posted:

Thinking about it made me realize this sad fact, for a late edit :smith:

But at least it's still better than disadvantage :unsmith:

But I still means having to direct my friends to the back of the book for information that should have been listed in full in the "Here is the rules for prone" section :smith:

For all the rules issues. It's the "Oldschool means obtuse, right?" formatting that seems extra sad for some reason.

"Spell tables! Alphabetical order or gently caress off."

Oh my god, just categorize them by spell level. It will cut down 90% of level up time not sifting through the book or looking up an online spreadsheet.

"Alphabetical order. Or gently caress off."

I haven't actually noticed it until now on account of not opening a physical PHB in ages, but considering spell lists from 3.5 had the good sense to include a short blurb with the spells by class by level tables, this is a huge and mindbogglingly stupid step backwards.

Edit:

Arivia posted:

Alphabetical order for spells makes looking them up at the table during play much quicker and easier.

Spells have always been organized this way for that exact reason, but it used to be they also gave you a quick, ten-words-or-less blurb next to each spell in your 1st Level Cleric Spell table or whatever, so we've gone backwards from a brief description to no description at all for the less-obviously named spells.

lightrook fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 16, 2018

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Kaysette posted:

Combine every stat into Moxie.

There's the Three M system of Muscle, Moxie, and Mysticality that's seen some success...

I was also going to suggest Strongness, Quickness, and Rewriting the Universeness, but that's no different from 3.5.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

AlphaDog posted:

There are more ways to include burst damage than to make it cost resources.

I mean, implicitly, it kind of does, because if your burst damage is available all the time, then it's not burst and just damage; burst implies it's somehow greater than your personal "baseline" damage, however you want to define that. The only exception I can think of is crits, but I'm not sure if that's something you should take into account as a part of your typical baseline performance.

Honestly, I don't think it's unreasonable to just forget that Champion exists as an archetype and give its abilities to every fighter for free.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

AlphaDog posted:

The very simplest example of an ability that switches you from consistent to bursty without using resources is one that trades +hit for +damage.

Another would be trading +hit for +critrange.

Then there are things that consume no resources but require a setup. Sneak Attack is one example.

There's a bunch of stuff you can do with situational and positioning triggers too (eg, "when you become bloodied...").

Then there's weirdo crap like "You take a -1 to hit, and an additional -1 to hit each round. When you do hit, calculate your damage X times where X is the number of times you missed before hitting" you could write if you wanted to.

Oh, I guess I had a different idea about burst, but this makes sense too.

It's kind of a shame they haven't brought make anything that interacts with the Bloodied state, or even just the Bloodied state at all; it works on the same principle as Escalation Dice of backloading certain combat interactions, because without it, it makes too much sense to come out of the gate swinging big and then closing out on a whimper, which isn't nearly as narratively satisfying.

For a really simple example, maybe something like this would give martials some tactical choices - either disengage and focus down one weakened enemy, or hold position and tie up a healthy one:

Press the Attack: For the rest of your turn, all your attacks against bloodied enemies strike their weak points of Massive Bonus Damage. Recharges once per short rest.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

mastershakeman posted:



Also since I somehow responded to a five page old post here's another question

Why would a player be able to defeat were creatures via suffocation? Wouldn't they just regenerate? More importantly, what does that mean about breathing in this fantasy setting? Can I suck all the oxygen out a room via a fire?

Even seeing that example makes me want to work on a house rule so I know exactly how that would work. If an ogre grabs my character and tries to strangle me, I want that preemptively adjudicated.

Suffocation is supposed to work on regenerating creatures because there's no regenerating from brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, or something. On the other hand, the rules and mechanics surrounding both suffocation and grappling have historically been a mess, if 3.5 is anything to go by, heal by drowning Et al.

Mechanically speaking, if I wanted to model an ogre strangling a player, I'd probably have its victim take some damage (I dunno, 2d8?) every turn its grappled by the ogre, with CON save for half. That way, the flimsy rogue gets squeezed down quickly, while the beefy fighter has a lot more air to fight with.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

gradenko_2000 posted:


monsterdesign.txt


Okay, I just looked at the Intellect devourer, and I'm kind of stunned by the scale of its terrible design choices. So as a CR 2 enemy, not only is it resistant to the nonmagical weapons the players are likely stuck with, not only does it have a better-than-half chance to remove a player from not just the rest of the fight but probably the rest of the entire game session, but as an added gently caress-you it's even within both its abilities and motivations to outright *kill* whoever it happens to mindbreak. Did I mention its stat block doesn't specify any time frame for recovering from ability damage? Like no clause like "recovers after short rest" or "recovers after long rest" or anything that might be within the means of a level 2 party; Lesser Restoration is both out of reach and completely useless, and Greater Restoration is a 5th level spell available to 9th level characters, so even if you're not technically dead, you might as well be.

The werewolf is brutal for level 3 parties that in all likelihood lack magical weapons, but at the very least a fighter can physically prevent it from clawing up the squishy casters in the back by grappling and/or shoving it and holding it in place. The Intellect Devourer is just outright hostile to anything and anybody who made the mistake of thinking that being a weapons person was a cool, worthwhile, and well-supported role in a fantasy role playing game, a genre known for its abundance of weapons persons.

I know 3.5 had That drat Crab as its poster child of absurd and broken monster design, but that was also one incident out of many, many years of monster design. The closest thing I can think of from the 3.5 MM1 would be the Allip, which was incorporeal and did Wisdom damage, but at the least you could say that a +1 weapon was within a 3rd level character's WBL in a game where magic items were strictly not optional, and it took a while before it killed anyone, and that you'd eventually heal off the ability damage after a few Long Rests.

But geez, it's pretty clear that nobody looked at the monster entry for Intellect Devourer, asked what would happen if some well-intentioned DM saw the CR: 2 in its stat block, and accidentally sicced it on a level 2 party.

lightrook fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Oct 24, 2018

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Bogan Krkic posted:

Maybe it turns out everyone in this thread is a bad poster.

What's the best way to make a warlock viable in melee without going Pact of the Blade? I'd quite like to be a magic punch man if that's at all feasible, or at very least be able to tangle in melee if required without getting my poo poo pushed in, but not have some dumb magic haunted sword.

If you want, can pick Hexblade as your patron without taking Pact of the Blade, since most of the important melee abilities are part of Hexblade and not Pact of the Blade. With this you get medium armor and shields, which is good enough pretty adequate as far as melee competence goes, and you'll have stuff like Armor of Agathys to pad out your bulk. The biggest thing you miss out on is Improved Pact Weapon, in case you wanted to use a two-handed weapon, but you're fine sword-and-boarding. Thirsting Blade at level 5 is the other one, but it doesn't do anything for your melee weapon cantrips, and those scale with character level anyways. Considering how little you actually get from Pact of the Blade, you're probably not missing a lot - choosing Pact of the Chain and having your familiar Help you on your attack rolls is probably more useful anyways. Pact of the Tome lets you snag Shillelagh, which can sorta replace Hexblade, but you also won't get proficiency with medium armor and shields, which is kind of what lets you be not dead in close quarters.

If you'd like to bulk out a little more, you can start with 2 levels in Paladin for access to Heavy Armor, Holy Smites, and a Fighting Style. Pact Magic actually works pretty nicely with Holy Smites, since you can burn your Warlock spells to fuel Holy Smites. With Paladin you also have your pick of Pact and Patron, since you're no longer forced into Hexblade for the proficiencies.

It's really up to you. I'm kind of tempted to play something like a Pal/Lock myself sometime in the future.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Hey that's pretty neat.

Honestly, I like the idea a lot - it makes for a better story than trading in your trusty sword every time you find a newer and shinier stabbing stick. I also like that it makes your weapon intrinsic to your character progression - feels more well-earned than just dumping a sack of coins on the counter and buying new toys.

Anything that makes a good story and cuts down on gamey transactions is pretty good in my book, I think.

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lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

DJ Dizzy posted:

Thanks!

I’m making individual weapons for all my players. So far i’ve got The Daggers of the First Murder for our goblin rogue, The Songbow for our lore bard, and a scythe that prevents resurrection or undeath for our hexblade chainpact warlock. Still missing a neat concept for our ranger, other than “bow but better”.

So far only Carsomyr is intelligent.

The ranger's bow should be a hunter's bow, and a hunter should always catch their quarry. So maybe something that makes successive hits progressively more lethal, like granting advantage or dealing extra damage against damaged enemies? Or maybe you can curve the arrow and ignore some or all cover?

Additionally, the nice thing about making a generic ranger-themed bow is drawing upon all the examples of generic Cool Ranger poo poo from fantasy, like double-nocking arrows or throwing out massive AoE volleys.

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