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Neptr posted:I get that you can't look up the torque spec for every car that comes in the shop, You can't? It's right there with the job's book hours in AllData. I don't see any reason not to have them.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:37
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The elephant in the room being the specs are readily available, but no tech working at a dealership would ever bother on anything short of head bolts else they'd worst case get fired or best case get less flat hours. Any bolt that doesn't bring a customer back is a bolt that is torqued down to "spec".
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Apr 9, 2015 16:58
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TBH I use torque wrenches on things that affect head gaskets and bearings, and stuff that can fly out and rip my feet off. That's... about it. Axle nuts? Every time. Head bolts? Every time. Main/rod bearing cap bolts and nuts? Every time. Diff carrier bearing cap bolts? Yup. Pinion nuts on diffs? Those too. Flywheel, harmonic balancer, and pressure plate bolts? Those get torqued to spec as well. Everything else... gently caress it, I aint got all day. 50% of the time I've torqued bellhousing bolts to spec, the bellhousing cracked within months. Only like 1 out of 5 that I didn't bother to torque to spec cracked. 99% of the torque specs you'll find in the book for poo poo like motor mounts and accessory brackets are literally the engineer responsible for the design pulling out his machinery handbook and copying the spec for that diameter/pitch/grade of bolt over into the FSM he's writing. How do I know? I've compared them. Hell, go look up the head bolt torque on a jeep 4.0 - it's 110 for all except the threadsealed one, which is 100. The head bolts are 1/2-13 non TTY, hardened bolts. Guess what the spec for a grade 8 1/2-13 bolt is? 110 dry, 80/90/100 oiled depending on who you ask and what oil they spec.
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Apr 9, 2015 21:07
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You tighten by hand though, right? Doing it by hand and with an impact is two different things, these days I can tell by hand when I have enough torque on caliper bolts and poo poo like that, I'd never use my impact to tighten poo poo back up, I just use it to take poo poo off. Except for lug nuts, gotta torque stick for those 
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Apr 10, 2015 01:42
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If its something going into an aluminum block or part, I use a torque wrench. Generally I pull the torque wrench out to be careful anyways. Better safe than sorry.
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Apr 10, 2015 01:48
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:That's really good to know - my headlights are a bit misaligned, but nothing a few sledgehammer blows can't fix. The PO wrecked one of the front fenders, put a hole in the front fascia, and disconnected the middle brake light, but I've got a new junkyard fender and rear wiring harness, plus if they try to fail my chunky 30" tires I can just swap in my barely-used winters which are sure to pass (I'm moving in Aug so it'll be close to winter tire time anyway). If you're in the valley (ie SLC) I wouldn't sweat winter tires too much, unless you have a spare set of wheels. A lot of guys love running Duratracs year-round.
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Apr 10, 2015 03:36
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leica posted:You tighten by hand though, right? Doing it by hand and with an impact is two different things, these days I can tell by hand when I have enough torque on caliper bolts and poo poo like that, I'd never use my impact to tighten poo poo back up, I just use it to take poo poo off. Yeah, I don't use impacts. That does make a big difference. I'll crank the gently caress out of some lug nuts, too, my only worry really is warping the wheel. I start with a star pattern and low torque, by the end I'm really hauling on it. People vastly underestimate the strength of a grade 8 1/2-20 lug stud, I've had three feet of lever arm on one (that some chucklefuck tire shop employee had impacted on only a month before) and barely managed to pop the lug nut off and the stud was fine. I'm guesstimating around 800 to 900 foot pounds and the threads weren't even damaged. I probably have mine set to 150 or so right now and I've never had a problem. But then again I don't start out by putting the nut in the socket on an impact and blasting it on at full bap-bap whether it threaded on straight or not. I always thread things in with my fingers, then switch to a wrench once I'm sure they're going in right.
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Apr 10, 2015 04:09
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kastein posted:But then again I don't start out by putting the nut in the socket on an impact and blasting it on at full bap-bap whether it threaded on straight or not. I always thread things in with my fingers, then switch to a wrench once I'm sure they're going in right. Haha yeah, have been burned by that method before (Tire Kingdom you loving idiots). I ALWAYS start them by hand.
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Apr 10, 2015 04:20
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I will say that the HF torque stick - at least the lowest one, the only one I ever use - seems to be remarkably accurate. Start the lugs by hand, turn my impact to its lowest setting, and let it hammer away as long as I care; it gets them very consistently to somewhere around 60-80 ftlb. Grab the torque wrench and each one requires maybe 1/8 of a turn before it clicks at 100 ftlb. I've gotten torque-wrench happy on the Jeep, especially since I finally broke down and bought a 1/4" drive HF wrench measured in inch-pounds.
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Apr 10, 2015 06:07
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Using the ~10 year old CH 1/2" impact to run lugs on (after threading on the first bit by hand) I let off the trigger a hair before the lug touches down. The inertia of everything is normally enough to bring lugs up over 60 ft-lbs. Cam caps on most modern journal bearing motocross bikes - 86 in-lbs. I have seen a few heads fail from those being over, or under torqued.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:39
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"But the warranty's not as good." Saw this coming from a mile away, and if you try to explain why she's so wrong all she hears is how many times that warranty "saved her" I talked my Mom down from full sized truck frame SUVs to a 4g outback last time she was car shopping and the whole experience has been great for both of us. If anything it's been a bit boring; I have to replace the front axle kind of soon because of the CV boots (she knew they were torn but didn't tell me and drove on them for 2 months...) but outside of that its been routine maintanence. She's always been into coupes, but got really into land tanks after buying a Suburban in the 90's to tow her 4 horse trailer. She doesn't own a trailer anymore, so it was time to move on. She hardly noticed the change from big murican v8's to the puny NA 4banger because the car doesn't weigh 10,000lbs and the stock ride height + wagon bodystyle post-tint ended up being enough to recreate the SUV experience. The spartan subaru dash and lack of an Infotainment™ system are her main complaints, but beyond that she loves it. The best part: its not a crossover. Handles all the lovely dirt roads she drives on & hauls giant bags of whateverthefuck her horse needs just as well as the momtanks. She would definitely be a lot happier in a 6th gen legacy, but they didn't exist when I suggested the 4g. Its a good car, if it were a manual I would buy it from her in a heartbeat. I guess the point of this post is to say that yes, the grass is actually greener on the other side in this case. .... sometimes, she's looking at Hyundais now. Tashan Dorrsett fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 09:04
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How is an Outback not a crossover?
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Apr 10, 2015 10:01
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Godholio posted:If you're in the valley (ie SLC) I wouldn't sweat winter tires too much, unless you have a spare set of wheels. A lot of guys love running Duratracs year-round. Yeah we'll be in the valley but I'm into skiing and snowboarding so I'll be taking the XJ up the cottonwoods and on trips around the rockies in the wintertime. I actually have an outback too as my grocery getter but the jeep is my ski trip vehicle. My summer tires are Cooper STT2s and while they are chunky and fun offroad, they definitely are not confidence inspiring in the snow! (I supposed I should ask, since you know the area - are the U-Pull junkyards in the SLC area any good?) Outbacks are a crossover now but it kills me how bloated they've gotten. Mine is a 2004 and it's definitely still just a wagon. wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 12:40
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dissss posted:How is an Outback not a crossover? Despite it having nearly nine inches of ground clearance, it sits lower to the ground (meaning you don't have to climb into it as much as you would a high-riding SUV), and the Boxer engine gives it a lower CoG. It's more of a station wagon than an SUV, but they are *big cars*. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 13:43
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I've owned 3 Hyundais and 1 Kia in the last 8 years. Biggest issues i've run into are with the service departments , surprise surprise. Kia being the worst offender. The vehicle in question was a 2007 Optima which honestly was solid and never left me stranded , I was the second owner and purchased with 16k on it and drove it through 70k. Over the 5 years I owned it I had both headlights replaced due to bubbling within the housing, both sunshades due to them just breaking if you were even a bit rough with them , a starter and steering clock spring. The service manager outright lied when I wanted the headlights replaced , told me that they weren't covered under the warranty, which at the time was completely false. I didn't bother arguing I just got on the phone with corporate , they in turn called the dealer, had them order the parts and setup the appointment for installation once the parts were received. When I was getting the car back service manager comes out and tells me he did me a favor by doing the work and that they wouldn't replace them again if the problem returned, yeah thanks guy. And with the sunshades ,I had each one replaced at different times, first time no issue , second time same service manager tells me they wont replace a part under warranty if its been replaced once before , to which I replied you replaced the driver side , service manager says too bad so sad thats how it is. Again I call corporate and they make it right. The Hyundais haven't had any issues aside from cosmetic poo poo , I had the gear shifter replaced on the 2013 Elantra GT replaced 3 times for pealing ,but after the first time it was replaced the service writers were surprised they kept replacing it as they also stated they typically only replace things once. How common is that practice ? I mean if the part in question is poo poo and they haven't made any revisions to it, its going to keep going bad , and thus needing to be replaced. TL;DR I like korean cars but their service managers are literally Hitler
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Apr 10, 2015 14:33
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I don't know how you responded but if I had a service manager tell me that after I'd already spoken to corporate I'd just laugh, give him a big smile, and inform him that I will pass his info on to corporate to let them know that he's lying to your face about warranty service, because the warranty is honestly the big reason a lot of people buy Kia/Hyundai and if they're going to be giving you a hard time about it then everyone and their mother should know (including corporate.) For what its worth most of my friends with Hyundais have had good experiences with the warranty, and yes most of them have had to use it at least a few times, even on post-2006 models. Transmissions and such going bad.
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Apr 10, 2015 15:07
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Despite it having nearly nine inches of ground clearance, it sits lower to the ground (meaning you don't have to climb into it as much as you would a high-riding SUV), and the Boxer engine gives it a lower CoG. It's more of a station wagon than an SUV, but they are *big cars*. It's still a crossover - textbook example actually
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Apr 10, 2015 23:50
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dissss posted:How is an Outback not a crossover? dissss posted:It's still a crossover - textbook example actually I'm talking about a 4g outback, it didn't even remotely approach crossover territory until 5g and 6g. Outside of the ride height, taking a quick look out the window it's about the same size as the newer accord its parked next to, smaller than the DTS down the row, and makes the toyota or whatever crossover parked next to it look like a towering behemoth. Crossover vs wagon surely is a gray area, but the 4g is on the wagon side of the spectrum. 5th gen and on are definitely crossovers. Non-subie people, this is the bodystyle I'm talking about. 100% wagon (not her car) 
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Apr 11, 2015 00:05
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Closer to the wagon end of the spectrum than the SUV end, but definitely still a crossover.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:16
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That's totally a wagon.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:18
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dissss posted:Closer to the wagon end of the spectrum than the SUV end, but definitely still a crossover. How does it feel, being this wrong about something?
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Apr 11, 2015 00:25
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Terrible Robot posted:How does it feel, being this wrong about something? Dunno, that would require being wrong
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Apr 11, 2015 00:30
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It's literally a legacy wagon with 2.5 inches of extra ride height from modified suspension parts. I'm still salty about the XT having base legacy brakes instead of the upgraded GT brakes even though the drivetrain is the same. They were so tiny and ate pads like mad.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:31
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The_Raven posted:the fart-sucking seat ventilation system that Mercedes offers. This would make the best prank nitrous blowoff for car meets.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:40
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If a SUV is a station wagon wearing heels then I like to think that the 5g/6g Outback is more like a station wagon wearing wedges.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:46
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dissss posted:Dunno, that would require being wrong You're wrong dude, just because it's lifted a couple of inches doesn't make it a crossover SUV, it's still a station wagon.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:41
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 You will never be this cool again, Subaru.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:29
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leica posted:You're wrong dude, just because it's lifted a couple of inches doesn't make it a crossover SUV, it's still a station wagon. No - the Legacy wagon is the station wagon. The Outback is the Legacy wagon (somewhat lazily) turned into a crossover. Same as an Audi Allroad, or the lifted version of the Impreza Subaru did before the first gen Forester, or the Crosspolo
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Apr 11, 2015 02:34
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**THIS** is why I don't argue about whether or not my car is a crossover or not.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:53
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This is an idiotic argument. Unless there is some technical consensus on what a crossover is it's just an opinion / whatever the marketing department calls it.
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Apr 11, 2015 03:00
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CharlesM posted:This is an idiotic argument. Unless there is some technical consensus on what a crossover is it's just an opinion / whatever the marketing department calls it. Can we all agree that 5th/6th-gen Outbacks are bloated as gently caress, at least? Subaru should stop feeding everything a nonstop diet of Big Macs. 2009 was the last good Legacy year.
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Apr 11, 2015 03:21
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Yeah we'll be in the valley but I'm into skiing and snowboarding so I'll be taking the XJ up the cottonwoods and on trips around the rockies in the wintertime. I actually have an outback too as my grocery getter but the jeep is my ski trip vehicle. My summer tires are Cooper STT2s and while they are chunky and fun offroad, they definitely are not confidence inspiring in the snow! I haven't been in years, because not a single one had a JK in the yard last time I tried. I used to get parts all the time for previous cars, and I remember seeing XJs, but it's been a long time. There are still a few of these yards around though, more than I could find when I lived in Oklahoma. There are also a lot of XJs getting parted out on facebook, and guys swapping parts, so I think you'll probably be ok. I hear you on the tires, I've got a set of the older KMs. I actually left my little babby OE tires through the winter just in case it snowed (it didn't, what a lovely winter). CharlesM posted:This is an idiotic argument. Unless there is some technical consensus on what a crossover is it's just an opinion / whatever the marketing department calls it. I call crossovers minivans and it pisses people off. Godholio fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 03:40
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sorry some of ya'll admitted to driving crossovers
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Apr 11, 2015 03:49
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Naturally Selected posted:Can we all agree that 5th/6th-gen Outbacks are bloated as gently caress, at least? Subaru should stop feeding everything a nonstop diet of Big Macs. 2009 was the last good Legacy year.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:14
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dissss posted:No - the Legacy wagon is the station wagon. The Outback is the Legacy wagon (somewhat lazily) turned into a crossover. So you're saying that raising a wagon a few inches turns it into a crossover. Gotcha. 
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Apr 11, 2015 05:50
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But we're agreed station wagons and minivans are awesome and anything in between is an abomination right? Wait wait wait, what happens when you lift a minivan?
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Apr 11, 2015 10:34
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Cakefool posted:Wait wait wait, what happens when you lift a minivan? You get an abomination 
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Apr 11, 2015 10:40
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I prefer these
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Apr 11, 2015 13:56
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I briefly considered SASing a mazda mpv since they came in 4x4 5 speed but then I realized the name sounds like an STD and all I would get out of it was an ugly mazda cherokee with a lovely loving engine, the same fuel economy, less power, and a sliding door. Pass. Also if you live in utah and are looking for XJ parts, you should probably know NAXJA member "DrMoab", he parts out cheap CL crapcan XJs all the time.
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Apr 11, 2015 14:47
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:I prefer these I would drive that so loving hard.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:39
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