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Sooooo...from what I've gathered this is either the greatest arc in shonen history(or at very least this mangas history) or a monumental fail. In either case, it's a massive poo poo show so if someone can give the cliff notes of both of these angles it would be greatly appreciated. Personally I'm leaning a bit towards fail based on the bits I've gotten, but I'm not familiar with WTF is going on.
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2023 14:10 |
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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:20 |
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Okay having read more into it. It's all just...falling so insanely flat for me. Like yeah I get the whole themes of rehabilitation and heros saving people and being empathic and all of that good fun jazz, but I just find the League of Villains to be so unsympathetic that it just falls apart for me. Yes you guys went through terrible abuse and fell through the cracks of a broken lovely system that was unequipped ir unwilling to provide proper help and assistance, you're STILL committing mass murder on a massive scale as well as complete societal collapse. I'm also confused about the Hawks thing since as I have it understood, either Hawks kills Twice or Twice kills a whole bunch of people. There was some stuff about mind control or Twice not being in control of his actions, but the point would still stand as tragic as it is.
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2023 20:58 |
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Ytlaya posted:That's true, and I'm not faulting Ochaco in the slightest. My issue is more with the narrative framing that seems to be implying that Toga's actions were something she was driven to by society. Society is at fault for not adequately dealing with the issues she has, but she went far beyond what would have been understandable given what she was dealing with. That's kimd of my issue. Society is ay fault and hosed up on how to deal with her issues, but the response being mass murder and societal destruction on a National scale throws whatever sympathy and empathy possible out of whack if not fully out the window.
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# ¿ Jul 15, 2023 01:26 |
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Kanos posted:It's funny because not even like, a singular murder or a couple of murders. It's "our group killed tens of thousands of people and completely collapsed modern society and forced the entire civilian population to hide in bunkers for fear of being slaughtered by packs of roving murderers". It's this plus how cheesy it is that the big connection is...wanting to talk romance about the guy you're both crushing on? Not to mention that as others have stated, this is what? Only the second time they've met and one of those times Ochaco was quite clearly afraid and freaked out by Toga so this is definitely a bit retcony. A big concern I've seen is the, "and then what" aspect. Okay so Toga has been subdued and will receive the therapy and help with managing her quirk. What about the mass murder and societal collapse that she was involved in? Minor or not, that's gonna carry a VERY heavy punishment and 100% rightfully so and I dunno how Japan does it, but might be grounds for trial as an adult. oh jay posted:Muscular was cool, because he didn't pretend he was misunderstood. Kanos posted:This is also why Dabi owns. Dude's backstory is tragic but he completely leans into the fact that he's an evil murderer. Terrible and horrid as they are, I can definitely respect that they just roll with it. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jul 18, 2023 |
# ¿ Jul 18, 2023 03:20 |
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Mymla posted:Toga can't go to prison because Japan no longer has a legal system capable of imprisoning anyone. I have no idea how much destruction they're causing, but if the full on legal justice system is down then yeah, we're talking about possibly shipping them to The Hague and looking at potential war crime charges as well as mass murder possibly in the millions if any of what I've heard is accurate.
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# ¿ Jul 18, 2023 03:57 |
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SyntheticPolygon posted:In reality being mistreated by your parents or by society is not a good reason to be a serial killer and would brook no sympathy but in this comic removed from reality where all important members of this evil villain group (except AFO) are characterised as victims the way these criminals are treated reflects a lot on the themes and ideals of the story. While I agree with the idea, it just hurts the overall message by making things WAAAY too disproportionate. Li,e instead of mass murderers they drew the line at just destruction of property and assault, but kept it to hero's, government adjacent, and if civilian targets still keep it from killing people. And if they DO kill people, give it the proper weight where they realise that they did something that you can't undo or come back from. It makes it easier to construct the whole redemption argument. Kanos posted:It works fine in DBZ because DBZ isn't flirting with making any kind of serious societal commentary and operates on the "are you, at this moment, actively trying to kill the protagonists and/or their families? no? okay you're good" system of morality. Part of it is also that Vegeta is just so powerful that they really can't do much in the way of an actual punishment and any beings that would be powerful enougn to dole out said punishment are either evil, or cosmically indifferent due to the sheer scope of their office. They might find his actions distasteful, but it's below their paycheck. Piccolo mentions that his sacrifice vs Buu is pretty much pointless in terms of karmic retribution for all off the pain and suffering he's caused and will not be meeting Goku in the afterlife since he's going straight to hell. Kanos posted:This is true and it's why stuff like Darth Vader's death/redemption works well. Agreed. I get Horikoshi is going with all of this, but it's not landing AT ALL and feels like you need to shut off parts of your brain to allow which is counter intuitive when trying to make a deep and complex point. Vader is also an interesting point since in the EU(no idea if it got brought over to canon), Leia explicitly tells Vader's force ghost that his one moment of goodness does not even come close to making up for all of the horrific pain and suffering he caused and helped facilitate up to including drugging and torturing her for information.
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# ¿ Jul 19, 2023 01:59 |
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Repost from Space BattlesOmegaShark31, post: 94001440, member: 413968 posted:
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# ¿ Jul 19, 2023 12:00 |
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Runa posted:Toga's killed too many people for a last-minute redemption and surrender to feel appropriate so narratively this is the safest way for her character arc to end, but by god it would've been hilarious if she had instead survived to be Ochako's prison gf she visits to donate blood to Those are just two of the three ways it ends. The other is that she lives somehow, but "sort of died" and that along with "societies failure to accept and accomodate her quirk(not necessarily untrue, but her actions go WAAAAY beyond acceptable response)" leads to her getting a reduced sentence like probation if not full acquittal. This is the TRUE maximum stupidest loving possible course of action and thus most likely in my opinion. Edit: I do find it super off-putting in an "Obito was the coolest guy/Thank you Eren" kind of way how some people treat this arc/fight whatever you wanna call it as some incredibly deep and profound thing and those who don't like it are "just not mature enough to understand it" or lack empathy or some other poo poo. Edit: Actually, Obito and Eren have been brought up as better examples so I'll go with those. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jul 21, 2023 |
# ¿ Jul 21, 2023 08:06 |
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TheKingofSprings posted:Good lord did a bunch of you think Ted Bundy was kawaii or something I mean...that WAS a thing as disturbing and morbid as it was. Nessus posted:Ted Bundy was not yuri It actually kind of bothers me that the whole arc feels like it's carried entirely by yuri shipping and nothing else in terms of actual substance or quality. Like I KNOW what Horikoshi is going for, but it lands so badly flat given how little remorse or reflection Toga has shown for her actions.
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2023 08:19 |
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oh jay posted:https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1018284 I'm curious about that last part. What would you say are the issues and which arcs?
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# ¿ Jul 24, 2023 09:49 |
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Fabricated posted:The big one you could do I think (which might make people complain about the main series) is the original concept of MHA where Midoriya was supposed to remain quirkless and looked a bit more emo. Uraraka was supposed to have Mt. Lady's quirk, and Bakugou wasn't a jerk but instead was a hypertalented nice guy who inadvertently insulted people because of those combination of traits (Hori specifically said this version of Bakugou just made him angry). That sounds awesome actually.
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# ¿ Aug 3, 2023 14:47 |
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Ytlaya posted:I'm actually uncertain about what will happen here. On one hand, there isn't really anyone else on the hero side with much of a narrative incentive to be responsible for All for One's defeat. So, on a basic narrative level, I'd say that All Might has a better chance here than, say, Gojo in his current fight in Jujutsu Kaisen. But on the other hand, All Might's situation here seems really precarious, and All for One can't really be directly defeated, outside of just doing enough damage to make his time run out sooner. I think it's possible that All Might's suit might be destroyed and he might, through the power of True Grit and Willpower, summon forth one last burst of his One for All power. It'd be silly, but so is "a suit that lets him fight All for One." That last paragraph also led to another big question. People have been making quirkless-Deku fics for a long time on the basis that he could use gadgets and suits to help him and apparently that was considered the original concept. This pretty much supports the idea that not only could it have worked, but could have put him on par with the biggest fish in the pond. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Aug 8, 2023 |
# ¿ Aug 8, 2023 02:03 |
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Ytlaya posted:Being short does not help you give someone a kick in the balls! It makes it harder, in fact! Uppercut to the nards then.
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# ¿ Aug 9, 2023 03:27 |
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ImpAtom posted:The... the premise of the series is that it is a high school for superheroes. Pretty sure Hori forgot about that too.
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# ¿ Sep 1, 2023 23:28 |
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Loved Yusuke and he's still one of my all time faves and a gold standard for shonen protagonists. Another I liked was Kenichi from HSDK. Home boy just wants to self improve and train to be best martial artist ever and even when told he has zero talent for martial arts, he STILL doesn't give up(he DOES have talent for hard work and discipline which are even BETTER to have*). * You see this in MMA where all the talent in the world means poo poo if you coast by on it or lack the discipline to make the most of it. It's what made Kenichi so likeable and kind of aspiring since he was just all hard work.
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# ¿ Sep 20, 2023 23:30 |
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Ytlaya posted:The kind of silly thing about the "talent of hard work" stuff is that hard work/discipline is simply a prerequisite for top-tier athletics of any stripe. Everyone is training as much as safely possible, and talent ends up being the deciding factor. "Person coasting on talent" simply doesn't exist, and overtraining is bad (so you don't exactly want to bust your rear end constantly). BJ Penn is my frame of reference for the "Coasting on Talent". Guy was INSANELY talented and gifted in flexibility and athleticism, but was notorious for having "yes men" as part of his group who wouldn't push and he himself also had discipline and ego issues(basically he didn't work on his cardio)all of which culminated in his eventual down fall ironically to Frankie Edgar who was regarded are largely unremarkable in terms of skill set and ability outside of being very gutsy and not getting tired. The idea DOES exist and can crop up irl from time to time, but as things in sports have advanced it's just not there any more.
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# ¿ Sep 20, 2023 23:56 |
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Ytlaya posted:That's true, though MMA is a bit of an exception that has only started to become as "polished" as other athletic endeavors in more recent years. Obligatory Medalist plug for discussing this very topic as well as what it means to be a "genius", "prodigy", "talented", or a "natural".
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# ¿ Sep 21, 2023 00:59 |
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Dolash posted:I know Allmight is a Superman type with endless compassion who doesn't kill (some exceptions apply), but him vibing with the serial killer and mourning his passage is still a little funny/odd. An alliance of necessity is one thing, as is Allmight having to go a bit darker, but actually feeling empathy for Stain is a bit of a swerve from those two ideas. I mean...look at all of the stuff with Toga and how that went down. Not much to add except the spoiler stuff sound funny as hell.
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# ¿ Sep 23, 2023 00:32 |
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FilthyImp posted:Dek's gonna have a 4 page omni-max build up towards punching AFOetus with OFAmax Power but at the last second he cradles the infant. Please let this be true. It would be so hilarious.
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# ¿ Oct 2, 2023 01:20 |
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TheHan posted:is shigaraki just standing there. But is he standing there menacingly is the question.
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# ¿ Dec 13, 2023 21:37 |
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Nephthys posted:I would personally argue that it's immoral and irresponsible to weigh Shigaraki's life and freedom as more important than literally millions of people. Shigaraki just outlined his exact plan to destroy the entire country of Japan which he can now do at any time he wants. The issue with Shigaraki's rehabilitation is that you are risking the entire country of Japan on the idea that a former genocidal maniac won't change his mind again and perform the genocide he is more than capable of doing at any point in time. You cannot allow a threat like that to exist. In general I feel like that's been the entire general issue with the entire LoV in my honest. I really can't quite find the words to explain, but it's the same vein of thing as what TheKingslayer said.
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# ¿ Dec 30, 2023 01:26 |
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Caidin posted:I honestly have no idea but I would assume that DBZA made it up since Toriyama doesn't seem to waste near as much thought on these things as fans do. No it's from the anime and likely the manga as well. There's a succession on who is to be the Eldest Namek and are looking for people from a certain tribe until Vegeta starts laughing and gloating that it was the village HE raided for the Dragon Ball so it wasn't part of the deal for resurrecting the people killed by Freeza and his gang. Edit: drat, late to post. If I recall, he did also kill a whole bunch of people at the tourney during the Buu Saga. ImpAtom posted:Unfortunately the Gods of the world are a a child, its time clone, a lazy cat, a flamboyant angel and an intern who accidentally got promoted to CEO. I am so out of touch with DBZ that I only know Dendei and Korin from that list. doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 24, 2024 |
# ¿ Jan 24, 2024 19:13 |
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Dende and Korin aren't on that list. Then I'm REALLY out of touch since those are the only child god and lazy cat I know of from the series.
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# ¿ Jan 24, 2024 20:00 |
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Kild posted:Zen-O, Zen-O (different timeline), Beerus, Whis, and Shin (Supreme Kai) I thought it was all one Zen-O. Wasn't thinking of the Super characters, but this makes sense.
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# ¿ Jan 24, 2024 23:29 |
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syntaxfunction posted:Uraraka saved Toga via an almost Bechdel test passing conversation, which is honestly pretty impressive for this comic. I still remember people citing that as one of the most emotionally powerful moments in the series and maybe most of shonen.
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# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 01:52 |
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:The website with speed scans and a comment section is always good for a laugh. They just don't understand the deep, complex, and thought provocative themes of the series and its writing. Some day when they mature, they'll see it for the grandoise masterpiece that it was.
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# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 20:08 |
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ImpAtom posted:The Dark Secret is that honestly like Sakamoto Days or Undead Unluck are better than JJK or MHA right now. I'm not seeing Dandadan listed there. Akane-Banashi and Medalist as well if we aren't limiting it to battle shonen.
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# ¿ Apr 9, 2024 20:54 |
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Nuebot posted:maybe last chapter will reveal this was all just a dream as deku's being choked out by the sludge villain, allmight saves him and tells him he's a brave lad then flies off. Please let this be true. It would be the single greatest shonen ending of all time. Second only to it being revealed that Deku was the adult from the one-shot and this was all a dream he had before the events of the one-shot unfolded.
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# ¿ Apr 16, 2024 01:49 |
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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:20 |
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Got this from another site. Leaks for chapter 422. The chapter begins with Aoyama falling behind because AFO's tentacles destroyed a piece of the ground, but he tells Deku to keep running. Aizawa tries asking Shirakumo to open another portal, but realizes that he no strenght left to use his quirk. The heroes keep attacking (including Mawata Fuwa, that second year girl), but the attacks don't work on AFO. Aizawa tells them all to clear a path for Deku to reach Shigaraki and, at the same time, AFO prepares to use the "full release of all quirk factors". AFO says it will be different from the time he used this attack against Bakugou, because now he's no longer overcome by emotions. He's going to condense all his power and release it. He shoots a laser at Deku, but Hagakure reflects it. Momo builds a railgun and Kaminari charges it with his electricity to fire at AFO, but he blocks it. AFO launches more black tentacles and Deku is about to punch them with One For All, but several other students destroy them and tell him to not waste his energy yet. Shoji holds Deku with one of his arms and Tsuyu with her tongue. Tsuyu's family and the girl Shoji saved in the past are watching the broadcast and see them fighting. The two of them throw Deku forward and he finally manages to call Tsuyu "Tsuyu-chan". Kirishima and Ashido block a big attack while their friends from middle school are watching and shouting their names. AFO doesn't understand why these heroes who can barely move won't die. He then remembers what he said about Deku in the vestiges, about him being useless. AFO finally understands that Deku's weakness is something that All Might didn't have and that's what makes his friends get up over and over again. Gentle makes him a trampoline, Death Arms says he can do it, Tokoyami wishes him good luck from Gunga and Iida takes his hand. AFO tries to use another attack but the hole in his hand starts to bleed and he gets confused. We see the US pilots tending to All Might's wounds and he says that seeing Deku running that day was what allowed him to do the same. It was at that moment that Deku became... Melissa wishes Deku good luck and in the next panel we see RODY and PINO doing the same. Iida tells Deku that he now understands what Uraraka meant on their first day at U.A., about the nickname "Deku" making her think of "do your best". We see Ochako in the helicopter with Pixie Bob as she opens her eyes and whispers "you can do it...!". The US president orders all of their heroes to be sent to Japan and we see panels of different characters saying "do your best! (Eri, Kota, Tsukauchi, , etc.) All Might raises his arm and sees an image of Deku running towards the sky. He then continues: "On that day, you became my greatest hero". The last spread shows Inko cheering on her son while Deku land a punch on All For One. Chapter 422: Izuku Midoriya - Rising. No break next week.
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# ¿ May 9, 2024 08:35 |