I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

So there's this guy who rapes a woman. The woman struggles, and hurts the guy. A policeman arrives on the scene. The guy cuts the woman's hands off, saying he has the rights to defend himself. The policeman agrees with his assessment and turns away. The guy keeps on raping the woman.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2014 22:55

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:22

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

...no Arab attack is carried out against Israel for 2 election cycles.

... During which there will be intensive campaigns of land-seizing, forced expropriation, subsidized illegal settlements, walling off, continued embargo and blocus, and assorted constant humiliations.

I'm gonna chain you up in my basement. Every day, I'll beat your head with a shovel. If you don't complain for a full two decades, I will let you go.

This is Israel, the most moral country in the world.

fade5 posted:

(Sidenote: The anti-Israel=anti-Semitic thing is also bad because it cheapens real anti-semitism. As an example, the Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked cartoonist Carlos Latuff higher on an anti-semitism list than the Hungarian Jobbik party. Jobbik are basically literal loving neo-nazis.)

Yeah but come on, he drew that:

Basically Hitler 2.0 right there.

You know who else was an artist? Hitler. Q.E.D.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2014 09:48

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The Insect Court posted:

It's clear that there are some posters who have a very intense, very personal hatred of Jewish Israelis that goes beyond mere disagreement with the policies of the current Israeli government. Their regular characterization of many or most Jewish Israelis as bloodthirsty, unfeeling, inhuman, greedy, dishonest, etc., and the almost violent loathing expressed exceeds what you'll see in any other thread, opinions towards ISIS end up being sedate in comparison. I'm simply trying to understand where such intense and near murderous hatred comes from, especially when it's coming from people with no personal connection to the conflict. What motivates such hatred? I'm just asking question here, I don't have any answers and it just seems so bizarre to me

Many, probably most, posters here are Westerners -- from the USA, Canada, the EU, ANZ, or similar. We're from Judeo-Christian cultures. In the Middle East thread, to someone arguing that Daeshites did not merit being treated as human beings, I said it wasn't about them, but about us.

Israel is us. They are a Western country, they are deeply tied humanly and economically to other western countries, and they keep boasting about how they're the only country in the area upholding our values. And you know what? They are complete assholes. They're gleefully committing the worst of our colonial sins, which we stopped over two generations ago and now see with great shame, and they're arguing it's their God-given birthright to keep doing these awful things.

That's why Israel is unbearable. Here we have an age of international Islamic terror, where Saudis and Pakistani salafists are abducting, ransoming, and torturing people, committing large-scale slaughters, oppressing women, destroying heritage sites, even striking on our home countries. We're better than them, right? Wrong! Here comes Israel on its mission to demonstrate that Arabs are really extremely justified in hating us.

As for your "goes beyond mere disagreement with the policies of the current Israeli government" thing, well yeah, it's also disagreement with the policies of the previous Israeli government, and the one before, all the way back to when the Israeli government was still just the Irgun.

The Insect Court posted:

I think I see. What you seem to be saying is that what's behind the hatred is the belief that instead of people holding a wide and diverse range of opinions on a variety of issues, Jewish Israelis are a sort of monolithic hivemind definitely exclusively by their persecution of the Palestinians?

No, of course not. Jewish Israelis are not just a monolithic hivemind. It's just that those who aren't part of the hivemind are called "self-hating Jews".

Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Nov 20, 2014

# ¿ Nov 20, 2014 01:38

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

"Survive the Shoah, get your house taken over by the Soviets and lose everything? Quit colonizing, that land with safety isn't yours."

That's victim blaming. The post you cite lays out the political realities of the current situation, which you apparently see as victim blaming.

In this above post, the Palestinians are not victims, since they are not human beings.

Also the settlements that are being built right now are to relocate Jews expelled by the Soviet Union in TYOOL 2014.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2014 00:21

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Baudolino posted:

joining a boycott goes too far.

I agree it is disproportionate. A more measured reaction would be carpet bombing every Israeli cities every couple years, since it is what has been established as the gold standard of proportionate, measured reaction in the area.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2014 15:00

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

Gee, sounds like how Israel classifies rocket target launch points.

Also, how Israel classifies the houses of relatives of suspected opponents.

And the houses of consuls of G5 countries.

What I'm saying is that the way Israel classifies anything as a target can, itself, only be classified as "abhorrent bullshit".

# ¿ Nov 21, 2014 21:13

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Dead Reckoning posted:

If Israel has to keep Palestine in crushing poverty in order to limit the Palestinians' options to violence, they're going to need a really good reason to back off from their position of military dominance.

You used the wrong preposition here, fixed it for you.

My Imaginary GF posted:

You're shifting your goal posts. You asked for a citation for UN schools being used for conflict purposes. I provided it.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1173808/elliot-rodger-manifesto.txt

You asked for a citation for women being cruel to Elliot Rodger and deserving death. I provided it.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2014 11:59

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

eSports Chaebol posted:

This analogy would work if the response to shootings were not gun control, but the persecution of innocent gun owners as a reprisal for gun crimes. The "pet cause" here is human rights.

It's only human rights if you consider Arabs to be humans, which the likes of TIC and MIGF assuredly do not.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2014 15:25

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Regardless of whether Jerusalem is in the Quran, it's in the Bible, so the entire city should be purged of its inhabitants and resettled exclusively by Christians.

That's the logic behind looking for that city's name in holy books, isn't it?

# ¿ Nov 29, 2014 09:56

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

And who profited from the labor? I don't care what the pitch was that got folks to come work the land, I care about who accumulated capital from the profits off that labor.

The colonial power practicing apartheid accumulated capital from their profit and from their theft of land. Therefore, colonialism is good because it allows profits to happen.

An Angry Bug posted:

Who gives a poo poo about money? Human lives are more important than that.

If only this were true, the world would be a lot less lovely.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2014 22:50

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The Insect Court posted:

Yes let's reinstitute horrifically racist immigration policies so as to better carry out ethnic cleansing.

Well, if it's good enough for Israel, it's good enough for the USA.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2014 11:46

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

The turtle has not recognized my right to exist on my terms and I therefore perceive risk of being bitten by said turtle. In addition, operation 'Changing Direction' has concluded with no future plans for similar implementation in foreseeable future.

How would a tortoise "recognize your right to exist on your terms"? It's a tortoise.

Wait, this post is perfect. For the first time, MIGF has created an insightful post. Yes, Israeli policy and action are best explained by metaphor of a sadistic robot who tortures weak and defenseless creatures under absolutely spurious pretexts that don't make any iota of rational sense to any sane observer.

Flowers For Algeria posted:

MEANWHILE, after Great-Britain and a couple of other European countries, the French National Assembly has called for the French government to recognize the state of Palestine. The French Senate should follow up soon. On Friday, the Foreign Affairs Minister Laurent Fabius hinted that if the peace process didn't resume within two years, France would probably recognize Palestine officially.

Fabius wants to wait for two years?

What is it with Hollande's governments and lovely ultimatums. "If there's no peace in Donbass within the next two months, we probably won't deliver the boats. If there's no peace in Palestine within the next two years, we probably will recognize Palestine." Grow some balls already, France! :france:

# ¿ Dec 2, 2014 18:16

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Eregos posted:

Certainly if Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad or Hafez al-Assad were in Israel's position, they'd have solved the Gaza problem a long time ago. There'd have been one giant war with hundreds of thousands dead and the remaining millions exiled, but it would be over with at least.

This is a salient point indeed! Saddam Hussein long had a problem with Kurds, and he got solve this problem by entirely exterminating every single one of them. The current situation in Iraq is a logical followup to the fact that there are no Kurds there anymore at all.

Oh wait, actually Kurds are still out there and holding their ground against Daesh better than the Iraqi gov't troops. Looks like Saddam's Kurd problem wasn't really over. Maybe Saddam Hussein and Israel have shown the exact same amount of restraint when dealing with their problem?

# ¿ Dec 3, 2014 11:41

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

syscall girl posted:

I laughed when I read that England was actually trading us old Harriers for F-35s. But also paying for the F-35s. Which definitely won't kill more marines than the Harriers did. At all.

Now why would Marines be killed by their F-35s?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZLUERkcFoY
Oh.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2014 08:14

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Absurd Alhazred posted:

He doesn't have to impose sanctions, he just has to allow others to do so. A lot of Israeli commerce is with Europe, them just plain cutting it off (as opposed to slowly enforcing a cutoff on explicit settlement products and investment) will be very unpleasant, especially compounding the deficit after Defensive Edge.

By the way, you need to decide whether this is not even worth the term "sanction" or whether this is the most extreme option. The enemy is a weakling and super-strong at the same time. What does that remind me of?

Sanctions is an extreme position. Reducing or withholding support for Israel is also an extremist position. The moderate position is to give them more expensive bombs to use on Palestinians.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2014 09:34

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Dead Reckoning posted:

If you actually have evidence of meetings between AIPAC leadership and known agents of Israeli intelligence, there are some people at the FBI who would be super interested in that and you should probably give them a call. Otherwise, if we're talking about "groups probably colluding with foreign interests and also making campaign contributions," you're going to have to cast a much wider net, because that list includes just about every oil company.

I would be perfectly okay with outlawing both AIPAC and just about every oil company.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2014 20:41

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Brainbread posted:

The conspiracy theorist part of me latched onto that. But more likely, if Europe attempts to boycott Israeli products they'll just have a huge issue with medication shortages.

Yeah, if only Europe wasn't home to over 150 pharmaceutics industries, including giants like Bayer and Sanofi...

Heck: Top 10 pharma companies 2013

1 Johnson & Johnson: USA
2 Novartis: Switzerland
3 Roche: Switzerland
4 Pfizer: USA
5 Sanofi: France
6 GlaxoSmithKline: UK
7 Merck: USA
8 Bayer HealthCare: Germany
9 AstraZeneca: UK+Sweden
10 Eli Lilly: USA

Top 10 is shared 4 are American, 4 are Union European, and 2 are Swiss. 0 are Israeli.

Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Dec 9, 2014

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 07:27

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Mmm, not sure this is good PR for anyone involved. 10$ that man never actually said "Kill all Jews", any takers?

Unfortunately, just because Israel labels everything as antisemitism doesn't mean actual antisemitism no longer exists. It happened in New York, not in Jerusalem, so it's hard to argue a political angle to that assault.

And crazed would-be murderers don't really care about making good PR. Or rather, as far as they're concerned, good PR is getting lots of media attention. Like explained here.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 15:08

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

What reason could the aggressor hypothetically have had to attack the Chabad in particular instead of Jews in general?

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 18:34

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

Since he stabbed a student, pretty sure it was a "death to Jews" attack.

That's my assumption as well, if you look at the context of the post...

# ¿ Dec 9, 2014 19:10

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Fangz posted:

IDF is calling the protestors 'rioters' so that's their angle. Probably they will use the tactic of announcing an IDF investigation into what happened, imploring everyone to wait for the full results of the investigation, which will enable them to shunt the issue to some later point where it can be pretty much forgotten.

The investigation will describe how under extreme stress and in fear of his life, the Israeli soldier offered his assailant a gentle pat to show the love and generosity of spirit that is the Jewish way, and the Palestinian, in ill health, coincidentally later died of unrelated reasons. The government will be very sorry that so many felt offended at this tragic turn of events, and build a few more settlements to commemorate.

The guy who killed the minister will get a medal, no other action will be taken.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2014 19:16

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

emanresu tnuocca posted:

In the meanwhile the Israeli authorities are claiming Abu Ein died of cardiac arrest

The cool thing about that is that when you think about it, all deaths are caused by cardiac arrest. Find me one corpse whose heart is still beating.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2014 12:35

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

You really can't comprehend I/P issues beyond the islamist talking points, can you?

Israel bombs weapon systems used by terrorists, whether those systems are in Gaza City, Damascus, or Beirut.

That's a tautology. It's not that Israel bombs weapon systems used by terrorists, it's that Israel defines whatever it bombs as "weapon system used by terrorists". These words do not have their original meaning anymore, they're just a synonym to "target". Any Arab, by Israeli definition, is a terrorist; and anything can be a weapon in the hands of a terrorist, so anything at all that Israel might decide to attack is a valid target.

Example: kids playing soccer on the beach becomes young terrorists playing terrorball on a terrorist training camp.

It isn't possible to support Israel's past and current behavior without being violently racist.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2014 11:24

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Greece has the right to defend itself, I think.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2014 16:38

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

I have no idea where you get this foolish idea. How often do you even see the word "occupation" appear in American media?

"ex. US" meant "excepted US", not "for example, US".

# ¿ Dec 13, 2014 07:02

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

When a large, cohesive, well-organized and self-financed voting bloc lobbies in favor of policies which promote the litoral apocalypse, AIPAC seems quite the moderate and rationally self-interested lobby.

If someone wants to commit a crime because he's a crazed lunatic, that his accomplice is in merely because he wants to steal the victim's wallet does not make him "more moderate".

# ¿ Dec 15, 2014 10:41

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Absurd Alhazred posted:

Don't forget the one who recommended Dershowitz's The Case for Israel to balance it out. Always a good sign.

Well then you balance Dershowitz's book with The Holocaust Industry.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2014 20:05

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Dig up his grave and craft dildos out of his bones.

Either that or invent a device to travel backward in time.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 11:15

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

emanresu tnuocca posted:

This brings the number of Palestinians murdered by the IDF in the west bank in 2014 to 50.

Do they get two weeks of vacations?

# ¿ Dec 30, 2014 18:50

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

FlamingLiberal posted:

Really embarrassing to watch my country do another country's gross dirty work. And they wonder who the real client state is.

Oh, Israel definitely is a client state. Its relationship with the USA is adequately described by the client-server model.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2014 12:46

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Volkerball posted:

The threat of joining the ICC was leverage.

Sometimes you have to follow up on your threat if you want them to be credible.

# ¿ Dec 31, 2014 19:32

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

anti-semetic rhetoric like "Israel made ICC drop charges"

How is that anti-semitic?

Is "Kenya made ICC drop charges" anti-semitic too?

# ¿ Jan 1, 2015 11:39

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Absurd Alhazred posted:

In election-related news, Likud had their primaries. Here's a picture of places 1-25, where I think 1-20 are considered "realistic" for getting into the Knesset (where you might say it's time to think about quitting your day-job, or preparing to vacate it for a bit):

Notably absent is Moshe Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset notorious for his unapologetic racist views and his abuse of power to silence Arab MK's. Don't think anyone is going to miss him. I guess his entryists just couldn't do better than Netanyahu's machine.

Is "Minority sector Ayoob Kara" an Arab?

# ¿ Jan 2, 2015 00:11

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

emanresu tnuocca posted:

I love it when people think that the word "settlers" has a negative connotation when it is in fact that Jewish settlers in the west bank who gave this word a negative connotation, it's a name they originally preferred and use. Also big lol at the anti-roma racism.

What about calling them colonists? They are, after all, assholes.

(That pun is probably not translatable to Hebrew.)

# ¿ Jan 2, 2015 18:22

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

So by MIGF logic, if terrorists manage to plant a bomb in the US embassy in Tel Aviv, then US retaliations will be against Israel.

Also by MIGF logic, the aftermath of 9/11 should have been the USA going to war against New York's airports.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2015 12:39

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Lustful Man Hugs posted:

To be fair, having unpopular groups as convenient scapegoats is a storied part of realpolitik.

Yes, we've seen what "blame the Jews" resulted in, so is it really a good idea to try again, thinking the outcome will be different if the minority chosen to be the scapegoat is different?

# ¿ Jan 4, 2015 17:12

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

emanresu tnuocca posted:

So a rather interesting anecdote started making the rounds yesterday, some bloggers suspect it was leaked by Netanyahu and the ministry of defense which makes sense.

Well, some of you might remember that back in 1996 when Shimon Peres was PM Israel got into a skirmish with Hezbollah known as "Operation Grapes of Wrath", the operation gained infamy for one particular incident in which IDF howitzers shelled a UN compound killing a hundred or so civilians taking shelter and several UN soldiers, this incident is known as the first massacre of Kfar Qana. So, yesterday we learned some additional background for this particular incident, turns out a commando unit of the paratroopers brigade (Meglan unit) was operating in the region at the time, they were apparently placing mines on a road near the village, the commander of the unit had apparently thought that the orders he got were not daring enough and on his own accord decided to advance closer to the village and mine additional roads, at this point a Hezbollah squad stationed near by managed to lay an ambush to the unit and attack it with small arms and mortar fire, the fighting intensified and IDF soldiers started dying at an alarming pace when the young brave commander realized he got his unit into deep poo poo and called for a rescue operation on the comms, it was during this rescue operation that the howitzers shelled the nearby UN compound.

So, what's the interesting part? That young brave commander who hosed up so bad and got so many of his own soldiers killed is one Mr. Nafatalli Bennet, future prime minister of Israel, who himself commented in his facebook page and said he will not apologize for heroism, I poo poo you not, that's what he said, he referred to himself as a hero for disobeying direct orders and getting his soldiers into an ambush. Now Israeli leftists are trying to paint Bennet as directly responsible for the Kfar Qana massacre and to be honest I feel that's a bit unfair, it was hardly his own decision to bomb the UN compound given that he was taking fire on the ground but this whole incident is definitely indicative of what a fanatic and reckless person that douche is.

He was laying mine and is responsible for the decision to lay even more mines than his orders told him to.

That makes him a coward and a monster, like anyone else who uses mines.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 15:21

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

The Geneva Convention does not apply to regimes which employ literal, no-poo poo nazis and architects of Nakba.

I agree.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 22:47

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

If the United Nations wishes to operate in an active warzone, it cannot allow terrorists to operate proximate to UN sites

I agree, UN presence in the area should be preceded by prolonged, concentrated airstrikes on IDF military installations.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 23:52

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 00:22

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

Its logic like yours which emboldens terrorists to cause unnecessary colateral damage.

because he's using your own goddamn logic.

My Imaginary GF posted:

you have me, advocating for policy that is productive towards an acceptable peace process.

Your acceptable peace process being the ethnic cleansing of all Arabs from Palestine, people are merely mirroring your own drat arguments against you. You somehow fail to realize that because you're too immensely racist to understand this role reversal. It'd require you to be able to process that Arabs are human beings too.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 01:20

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