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brock and gsp tapped into that incredible lucrative white supremacist demographic in a way that few other people really can
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Dec 8, 2014 00:21
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i'm excited to see what other freakshows we get in the wake of ufc's lovely business
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Dec 8, 2014 01:17
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triplexpac posted:Why would they give away CM Punk's first fight for free? Casual wrestling fans are going to want to see it, and if he gets lit up and dies no one will want to pay for fight #2 high rated lead-ins translate directly to higher ppv buys for the ufc. its not really comparable with glory because it was glory's first and only ppv, so there's no baseline to compare to.
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Dec 8, 2014 02:48
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james toney did nothing for buy rate and the ufc paid him a pile of money. who knows what the contract they have with punk is, and what their plan is. it seems silly to speculate at this point
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Dec 8, 2014 02:52
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MassRafTer posted:This isn't true at all, there's almost no correlation between prelim ratings and PPV buys. They did huge prelim numbers for shows like Coleman/Couture and then the actual PPV did poorly. Sometimes the major shows do big prelim numbers, sometimes they don't. There was a closer correlation between prelim ratings and Superbowl Saturday than with PPV buys. That was an unimaginably weak card. That it did 275k buys is a complete miracle. To be more clear: the ufc feels confident that a strong prelim headliner creates more buys than they would otherwise get.
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Dec 8, 2014 14:51
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Stokes posted:I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how Punk is going about training, or exactly how prepared he is/is going to be, but I'd like to think that Dana and Lorenzo have learned from the James Toney situation. I'm sure part of the reason they signed him was to keep him away from Bellator/WSOF, but if he is as criminally unprepared to fight a scrub as a lot of people in this thread and others say he is, I would think Dana and Co. would let him go embarrass himself in another fight organization. Of course maybe I'm wrong and they haven't learned, but like i said: he is a white belt at bjj, but apparently he's a very good white belt. he mostly trains with a gi. he's never trained mma. when asked if he could fight he didn't talk about his training, or who he is sparring with. he said that fighting is in our dna, so every one can fight.
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Dec 8, 2014 15:30
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cm punk will look absolutely spectacular relative to everyone else with his experience, because he'll be able to train full time. i would imagine that once he starts to get real fights he will have a lot of trouble making it through a training camp uninjured.
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Dec 8, 2014 15:31
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triplexpac posted:Don't forget he will also be able to train full time with the best trainers money can buy. it will be interesting to see how this plays out. because brock had really good training partners and coaches, but he still never learned how to take a punch without closing his eyes and cowering. cm punk will probably look really great for a guy making his mma debut, he'll just look intensely bad for a guy fighting on a ufc card.
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Dec 8, 2014 15:54
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freud mayweather posted:That's the type of lies he needs to keep telling. Like the one about his kempo background, or the one where he asked HHH if he took the same drug test as Batista. for some reason i get the feeling that cm punk is perhaps not the shrewdest negotiator.
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Dec 8, 2014 16:29
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Bubba Smith posted:I don't know if it's been said but Jason Mayhem Miller did fight in UFC recently and it was the weirdest display of mixed martial arts I had ever seen. I really don't think Punk can do worse than that and likely will look better. well, cm punk won't be fighting someone of bisping's level, so it will be relative. mayhem was at one point a top 30 guy, maybe even top 20 guy. the sport passed him by pretty seriously though. mayhem has some really high quality wins over guys like niko, lawler and kennedy, and i doubt punk ever gets that level of success.
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Dec 8, 2014 16:54
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good comparables for punk are bautista, lashley, and herschel walker. bautista is a purple belt and trained with one of hte best camps on the planet, and was 42 when he made his debut. he fought an enormously fat dude named vince lucero, with a 22-23 record, who's best win was josh "BRING THE PAIN" haynes. lucero has lost to a LOT of recognizable names. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEtGKxGNdCM that is a pretty quality win for a guy with no combat sport background making his debut, but also its heavyweight and that's just a fat guy. bobby lashley was a good but not elite amateur wrestler. he started fighting when he was 34. his first fights were against bums, wash outs, and an actual homeless person who uses the computers at the public library to troll mark coleman. he's still fighting and he's possibly a top 100 heavyweight. herschel walker is an exceedingly gifted athelte, and also old as dirt. he trained full time for three years before making his debut against someone only known as "lumptitty". the fight was very bad. he had another one, against another nobody. bautista is really the high bar for success for a debut. if he can match that then he'll be doing well
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Dec 8, 2014 17:13
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britishbornandbread posted:Genuinely intrigued to know what MMA/UFC fans make of Punk making this transition in terms of his background in wrestling. Would he viewed as a hack and or a phoney or would there be some respect for him as an actual athlete? Would like to know the thoughts of those who have little to know interest in WWE so that bad man Yurity need not reply. he will be fighting for money. he's a professional athlete.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:37
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i'm not really sure your question makes sense. people understand that professional wrestling is fake, and that punk's fighting background is in bjj. i think his kenpo background might be fake. like the big knock on brock wasn't that he was a fake fighter, its that he quit everything that he wasn't immediately great at and required him to work at. he stuck with mma way longer than anyone expected, but it was super obvious that he wasn't willing to work on stuff that he didn't want to work on.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:42
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the question that bob sapp rightly tells us to ask is "how will this rich person with a giant ego handle being hit in the face" and the answer is almost always "poorly"
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Dec 8, 2014 17:45
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triplexpac posted:lol it's so weird seeing the patented david carmichael triple post outside the Toronto thread. My worlds are colliding! my god you are such an inconceivable noob http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3093165&userid=150104 david carmichael fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 18:02
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britishbornandbread posted:I suppose I'm asking if any UFC fans with no interest in WWE are excited or interested in this news OR do people feel Phil Brooks is more of a performer than a fighter with a bit of background? I'm kinda interested in level headed reaction really. i don't know how other people feel. i'm interested in this news because i like mma, and this opens the door to a bunch of ridiculous matches. mma has a proud tradition of putting people who are famous into fights even if they aren't actually good, and if this becomes a regular thing with the ufc there will be a lot of laughs to be had. have you ever watched ufc stuff previously?
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Dec 8, 2014 18:54
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yeah, cm punk isn't going to be winning any titles. his first few fights will be against inexperienced or experienced and bad fighters, because otherwise the athletic commissions won't licence them. a few other ufc fighters have debuted with no professionals over the last few years, but most of them have had good amateur records or at least had some amateur fights on the ufc's reality show. brock's ufc debut was after he had 1 pro fight against a 2-5 olympic level judo player. he fought a former world champion and lost, then beat 4 increasingly good fighters. brock had a serious athletic background in a sport that is really transferable to mma, cm punk does not.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:01
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Food Court Druid posted:I'm having a fun time imagining how different the reactions would be if Bellator had signed Punk punk/melvin would be beautiful
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Dec 8, 2014 19:11
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cung le was also very good at sanshou, which wasn't exactly a big pool of talent, but he was obviously fantastic at it. he had a real and existing background in wrestling and tae kwon do, which is a lot different than punk's aubergine belt in kenpo under joey coco diaz
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Dec 8, 2014 21:11
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On top of rogan being much more experienced, rogan is also in much much better shape than cm punk
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Dec 9, 2014 01:26
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If the fight took place right now id pick joey diaz over punk. In six months time im sure he'll be able to defeat a vast number of comedians and entertainers
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Dec 9, 2014 02:33
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cm punk and sonnen are friends, that's why chael is claiming he knows who punk will be fighting. not because he is the possible opponent. also, chael isn't a ufc fighter and that fight would never get approved by any athletic commission.
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Dec 9, 2014 19:11
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cm punk doesn't know who his trainers will be, and he hasn't been working under a coach yet. that's bad
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Dec 11, 2014 15:52
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Viper_3000 posted:Yeah, but he's also said he didn't expect to be able to sign/announce until this summer because of his legal situation with WWE. And by planning, I doubt that means much more than thinking about what organization to sign with, rolling more with Rener, and vaguely thinking about what gym he might want to go to. He was still under contract to WWE until June when he got married, and had a year long non-compete forced on him until his lawyer got it cleared up, so I doubt he thought he'd be fighting next year. if he was taking this at all seriously, why would he not want to use that extra time to prepare
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Dec 11, 2014 16:39
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Thauros posted:The guy was incredibly hosed up physically and burnt out mentally and I'll believe he genuinely needed some time relaxing and watching hockey while in the process of switching careers. hockey isn't on during the summer time
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Dec 11, 2014 17:38
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its the brock lesnar thing: if he hasn't taken it seriously up till now, what makes you believe he's gonna start
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Dec 11, 2014 17:39
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flashy_mcflash posted:With the incredulity with which Meltzer is talking about Punk revealing his (lack of) credentials and saying that he's setting the bar intentionally low, is there any possible way he's training in secret and is more skilled than he lets on? I may be but a mark but it seems so bizarre that someone with any sense would try this with so few credentials. nope. 6+ months of full time training is more than reasonable for someone having their first fight, its just usually it would be an amateur fight. most guys wouldn't even have a real training camp for their first amateur fight, or even their first pro fight. the questions are: will punk actually be training full time? how seriously will he take it? will he join an existing team or build a camp around him? how will his body hold up? how will his ego hold up? etc. etc. etc. if he goes in and trains smart and full time under real coaches with real sparring partners he will have a large advantage over anyone else making their pro debut, unless they have a significant athletic (amateur mma, wrestling, bjj, boxing, etc.) background.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:53
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bautista was training in muay thai for a few years before he landed at caesar gracie's, and he went from white to blue in about a year, then blue to purple in about a year after that. caesar even said that bautista was less skilled than a lot purples, but would destroy most of them due to being exceedingly strong.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:59
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Bundt Cake posted:Or if they have knees yeah, punk's athletic background involves all the staph infections, knee problems and concussions of a combat athlete aged 36 years, without all the physical gifts and learned skills that usually accompany it i guess to expand on the guy talking about how cm punk doesn't bench press: a couple of dudes (notably kawajiri and kennedy) have had solid careers based entirely on being able to bench press a lot, by just getting on top of guys and pushing down on them.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:00
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flashy_mcflash posted:Point taken - I'm trying to look at this from UFC's perspective though. The criteria for this pontential opponent seems so specific that I can't see who they'd get. It needs to be someone with no skills and no record, but I'd think it'd also have to be someone that they could market if he beats Punk. I mean, the first fight is going to pop a buyrate no matter what, but how many cans do people want to see Punk go to a decision with, or how many times will people want to see Punk lose? kimbo slice beat a professional fighter in the ufc. a guy who had multiple wins even. but finding a complete bum will not be a problem. strikeforce found people to lose against herschel walker and bobby lashley, there is certainly no shortage of 185 pound wesleys sim to go out there and get embarrassed
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Dec 12, 2014 19:14
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the idea that cm punk will be "popping a buyrate" is also not completely correct. he will have a positive influence on viewership for sure, but the real money is where if he strings together some wins and he fights someone who is a for serious fighter. i'm not sure they will be putting punk on a pay per view for awhile.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:16
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Lid posted:Bob Sapp, your time has come for your ultimate payday. unless punk has some natural striking talent and power bob sapp would be a hilariously bad matchup for him
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Dec 12, 2014 19:18
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Otto von Ruthless posted:It seems to me like they almost certainly will, mostly because they have no reason to think they would definitly get more than one fight out him the real money is in the documentary they will be making of his training for fox.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:22
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Lid posted:Sapp doesn't fight to win and has not for many many years. If Punk shoots a takedown Sapp will claim his pelvis has broken. all of sapp's loses have been against legit heavyweights, excepting minowa and nishijima. minowa hosed up his leg, and nishijima is a stupendous boxer. sapp hates getting hit in the face, but there is no reason to believe punk would be able to hit him. or even shoot on him
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Dec 12, 2014 19:23
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triplexpac posted:I can't take anyone seriously when they say that CM Punk's first fight wouldn't be on PPV. His first fight is very likely the only one that matters, so it's going where it will make UFC money. fox is building a series around punk. that's where the money dollars are.
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Dec 14, 2014 17:51
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Dangersim posted:There is no point in getting a can to take a dive, you either do one or the other. check out the boxing thread, there was a really good article about a guy who fixed a pile of fights
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Dec 14, 2014 17:53
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Keg posted:This is the funniest thread on the forums right now one time the pro wrestling mod banned me for making of a guy who kept claiming that the ref, who he claimed was an employee of the ufc, picked a winner at the end of the fight.
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Dec 14, 2014 17:55
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fatherdog posted:More discussion of CM Punk, less whining about five-years-past modding decisions back in approximately the year 2000 i was the admin on professional wrestling booking simulator discussion forum. former wrestlehut mod used to write long winded articles about how we, collectively, were the actual hitler because he preferred a different professional wrestling booking simulator. good times, great memories.
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Dec 15, 2014 03:58
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Bundt Cake posted:Any 18 year old kid could walk to into a gym and say I cant afford to pay and mop the gym mats to train as much as CM Punk they could train as much as he already has for sure. but the theory is that he will be able to do the bj penn type thing where he hires coaches to train him full time, instead of training part time like anyone else who isn't a pro fighter
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Dec 19, 2014 15:36
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cams posted:While it is entirely possible, even likely, that Punk loses because he is 37 years old, the level to which people think he is a weak, inept loser is shameful. i htink you are mischaracterizing or at least misunderstanding what everyone is saying
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Dec 19, 2014 19:56
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