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Some highlights, some are super  :         213: Email from: [REDACTED]; to: [REDACTED]; subject: Greetings; date: August 11, 2002, at 09:45AM.           
treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 20:02
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CommieGIR posted:Hasn't torture been basically proven to be a worthless intelligence tool long before this? Admitted by the CIA no less.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:59
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evilweasel posted:Aside from 'following orders isn't a defense', once the CIA began lying to Congress and the White House they forfeit the claim they were just following orders. If I recall they went steps far beyond merely lying to Congress; such as blatantly hacking into Senate computers to delete information they didn't want to have seen in this report. I agree that everyone involved needs to be pinned treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 22:29
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emfive posted:Well I'm imagining a future Senate hearing where a CIA operative, digitally obscured to protect his identity, sobs while recounting how much he's suffered from "touching and manipulating all those butts". A single session which lasted 24/7, ending on august 23'rd 213: Email from: [REDACTED]; to: [REDACTED]; subject: Greetings; date: August 11, 2002, at 09:45AM.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:39
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An Angry Bug posted:Rhesus, since you're going to get your negative attention either way, I'll just go ahead and say this. You are an evil, malignant mockery of everything that humanity is supposed to be. Your continued existence actively makes the world a worse place, and people like you are a large part of why this report ever came to exist. You might think the rest of us are weak for caring about other human beings, but that reflects on something wrong with you, not us. You are what's wrong with America. You are what's wrong with humanity. And no matter what you say or do, after you pass away you will have nothing. You will cease to exist, and the only evidence you ever lived will be a world that is worse off. Rhesus has a good point though, and I also really dont think its okay to have the likes of Yoo summarily tortured or killed. They should be turned over to a (foreign) court to face prison time imo; no one here is arguing such that the perpetrators shouldn't be punished.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:58
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I forgot we have a specific Hague Invasion law just to stop international prosecution of US officials. Is there any chance that, if someone involved is arrested while overseas, we'd actually invoke it?
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Dec 11, 2014 16:09
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Trabisnikof posted:You realize they were told explicitly that what they were doing wasn't illegal and the DoJ wrote out the legal reasoning why it was legal right? They were told that what they were doing was explicitly illegal both domestically and internationally, but could be considered a justifiable breach of a specific domestic law* due to "a novel application of the necessity defense". *18 U.S.C. §§ 2340-2340A posted:(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 22:57
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Trabisnikof posted:Right, so why are you punishing some poor med-tech (who threw up afterwards btw and only did it for god and country) for what the leadership of the CIA did? The med-tech didn't know the DoJ had been lied to. Etc etc. In my opinion even someone who breaks down crying during their third day torturing someone and requests to transfer elsewhere should be pinned, not as heavily as our leaders, but still tried. When faced with an unspeakable act, clocking out and simply handing a cattleprod to someone else in line is to me no excuse for not actively trying to stop such things.
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Dec 11, 2014 23:35
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hobbesmaster posted:No. As horrific as it is we "only" tortured about a hundred people. An issue I have with these revelations is that we only tortured about a hundred detainees under this specific CIA program. In my opinion a big problem is that the report explicitly does not cover any CIA detainee who is later transferred into any separate organization's custody, such as Libya under Qaddafi, pre-civil war Syria, Egypt pre(and post?)-Muslim Brotherhood, Somalia(as we learned just the other day), etc etc. I believe this became a normal practice as the vast majority of the report's detainees were through 2003, and all but 6 through 2004. With our recent revelations that our Somali program is in full swing I'm afraid for how many people we are actually torturing. Justice Department legal council posted:The Convention only applies when you know a suspect is more likely than not to be tortured, but what if you kind of know? That’s not enough. So there are ways to get around it. öld CIA officer quote" posted:If you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear—never to see them again—you send them to Egypt. Recent news video about our Somali site old New Yorker story posted:These men were bound, blindfolded, and taken to an abandoned airbase, then flown by jet to Cairo for interrogation. Attiya later alleged that he suffered electrical shocks to his genitals, was hung from his limbs, and was kept in a cell in filthy water up to his knees. Two other suspects, who had been sentenced to death, were hanged. quote:Craig Murray, the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, told me that “the U.S. accepts quite a lot of intelligence from the Uzbeks” that has been extracted from suspects who have been tortured. This information was, he said, “largely rubbish.” He said he knew of “at least three” instances where the U.S. had rendered suspected militants from Afghanistan to Uzbekistan. Although Murray does not know the fate of the three men, he said, “They almost certainly would have been tortured.” In Uzbekistan, he said, “partial boiling of a hand or an arm is quite common.” He also knew of two cases in which prisoners had been boiled to death. quote:Mamdouh Habib, an Egyptian-born citizen of Australia, was apprehended in Pakistan in October, 2001. According to his wife, Habib, a radical Muslim with four children, was visiting the country to tour religious schools and determine if his family should move to Pakistan. A spokesman at the Pentagon has claimed that Habib—who has expressed support for Islamist causes—spent most of his trip in Afghanistan, and was “either supporting hostile forces or on the battlefield fighting illegally against the U.S.” Last month, after a three-year ordeal, Habib was released without charges. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 17:28
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:The problem is where to put the people in it. No one wants them, sending them back where they came from is a death sentence and the president is specifically barred from bringing them into the US unless he does some weird financial fuckery by attaching the cost to fees or something. It's basically just sitting there as we bribe minor nations to take some of the prisoners off of our hands. Like I guess if you just labeled the prisoners non-persons and left them sitting on a patch of dirt in Cuba we could have it wrapped up in a week, but outside of that it's difficult. Like, we've managed to do something with ~600 of our Guantanamo prisoners, of those left we've chosen about 50 who we will hold 'indefinitely' and we just haven't decided on ~90. If we will not give our ~140 prisoners a trial or even charges, and if we cannot return them to their homes, I would rather we give them US citizenship and release them absolutely freely into America, with a large compensation payout, than keep them locked away. At the moment we are pretty much waiting for them to just disappear so we can finally just forget about them, and such a thing is unconscionable to me. treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 09:04
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Hollismason posted:What I don't understand is why the CIA was paying these huge sums of money, like what could possibly justify it in their mind to spend that much money on someone who's job just seemed like middle management skills. I think the CIA officials finding a way to feed money to themselves was just normal blatant corruption. Like what else could you expect managing an unlimited budget no one outside will ever be allowed to audit?
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Dec 16, 2014 02:58
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:An Intercept article is naming names. About loving time. quote:Bikowsky’s former personal lawyer, Robert Litt, play[ed] a key role in his current capacity as a top government lawyer in deciding which parts of the torture report should be released. I know its such a trivial thing, but what fascinates me is how enclosed and corrupt some small details seem. Robert Litt is the Director of National Intelligence's general council, he was heavily involved in choosing which parts of the Senate's report should be declassified or redacted. He personally represents multiple CIA employees involved in torture programs, and in 2009, as a condition of his appointment, he had to affirm to the Intelligence Committee he would recuse himself from such situations. Robert Litt posted:I represent several present and former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency in matters relating to the detention and interrogation of suspected terrorists, By statute, under the rules of ethics and by virtue of my ethics agreement that has been provided to the committee, I will not participate personally and substantially in any particular matter involving these clients . . . including decisions about similarly situated individuals.
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Dec 20, 2014 06:13
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