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SEVEN hours of Caverna? HOW?! OUr longest (with six) is about 4, and we're a massively AP-prone group. I think the OP could do with a 4x section - games like Through The Ages, Eclipse, Nations, Clash of Cultures, Civilisation (a game I've never really seen goons talk about), Patchistory, etc etc etc. Also needs to mention some of the better games not currently there like Castles of Burgundy, Galaxy Trucker, Race for the Galaxy etc. This thread coming out has made me remember that my anniversary edition of Dungeon Lords hasn't been delivered yet D:
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Dec 13, 2014 16:11
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Tekopo posted:I dunno much about Castle of Burgundy actually, which is why it's not included. If people want to do write up of games, I'll add them to the second post of the thread so the OP isn't too long. Also Mage Knight. No Mage Knight. Shocking. I've not played Castles of Burgundy a lot recently so I suspect I couldn't write it up very well. But I'll give 4x a try. 4x games (Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate) 4x games are about... well those four things, primarily. Modern 4x games originated on PCs with the likes of Masters of Orion, and have been successfully translated to the tabletop. They tend to be multi-player, ranging from 2 to as many as 9 players (though, Eclipse is more-or-less unplayable with that many) and usually (but by no means always) involve players competing for space on a map which is generated randomly during play, building their economy and technology base, managing resources, then kicking the poo poo out of each other towards the end. Most are directly competitive, so in most cases steer clear if that's not your cup of tea. Longer 4x games (Antiquity), for example) can take whole days or even longer for some historical simulations, whilst shorter ones (Nations, Patchistory) can be played in an evening if everyone plays reasonably quickly. I cut my boardgaming teeth on 4x games starting with Civilisation, and have thoroughly enjoyed them from there. One of my favourite parts about them is the propensity towards hilarious anachronism and ageographyism. I'm always unreasonably amused when I wind up taking Napoleon to war against Shakespeare with a fighting band of spearmen in jet planes as the first space flight takes off over the pyramids in the background! So, some notable, good and/or important 4x games: Longer 4x games Eclipse: hex-based 4x IN SPAAACE. Dice-based combat resolution is a point against this game in my opinion, but broadly speaking it's got a solid, reasonably balanced base of exploration and tech-building. Plays up to NINE with the expansion, but more than about 4 and you need to rely on the slightly wonky second active player rules. And potentially has player elimination which is another point against it. But it's great fun, and the game and map varies a lot depending on the players, tech and races. Well worth the play time if you have a free afternoon. Civilisation: the mother (but not the king) of 4x games for me - decent exploration, map and economic engines coupled to a solid combat system (better in the expansions) and again, interesting and varied races. But has quite a high barrier to entry, a lot of fiddly rules and skilled players are very hard to beat, so IME there are better games for the same time investment. Through The Ages: Vlaada Chvatil's 4x game. Very, very good, but interestingly, doesn't use a map, and could as a result be argued to be a jumped-up drafting game. In place of a map it has a row of randomly-discovered cards, and sets of tiny wooden Shorter 4x games Nations: this game is basically designed to take Through the Ages and condense it into a less directly competitive format that can be played in an evening. It succeeds at that goal. If anything, it's a more elegant and more interesting game to play than its predecessor, and takes a lot less time, too. Again, doesn't have a formal shared map, and also lacks direct conflict. Patchistory I'm new to this game but have been impressed thus far. The 'patching' mechanic used to build individual players' maps is innovative and fun, there is direct conflict but it's relatively difficult and balanced, and it incorporates a solid bidding mechanic. Well worth the recommendation. Almost 4x games Mage Knight Board Game: another Vlaada masterpiece, this kind of works as a 4x game (it has the explore, exploit and exterminate elements, certainly, but the expand element is replaced with a deckbuilding mechanic) but the theme is very different. It's nonetheless an excellent game everyone should try once! thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 16:40
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Could probably also use a writeup on different mechanic types in general for people who've never played boardgames or only played monopoly or snakes and ladders before a lot of them are completely alien - worker placement versus deckbuilding versus auction versus traitor/bluffing games etc. but I'm probably not the one to do that.
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Dec 13, 2014 16:43
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Mojo Jojo posted:It seems odd not to mention TI3 in the 4X game list. It's generally too long to get on the table, but it is the definitive example. Never played it is why.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:04
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Cocks Cable posted:How long did this game take? Stats say 2 to 4 hours and I just wanted to know how realistic that is, because drat, that's long. Stats are about right. Our first game went from about 19:45 to about midnight (4 players), our second from about 19:20 to about 22:20 (3 players). We're quite a slow group. If you're playing for the first time though, be prepared for the rules explanation to take a while. There are a lot of concepts that take a bit of explaining, but once explained flow really nicely in play.
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Dec 14, 2014 10:45
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Wooh, my Dungeon Lords Anniversary Edition/Dungeon Petz/Dark Alleys set arrived! Ive spent a lot of time today sticking on stickers and trying to work out what bits fit where in the box, which was fun (the only bit I couldn't figure out was the enhanced tunnel tiles which don't seem to fit anywhere). I'm thinking about teaching my group Petz tomorrow after one or two rules readthroughs, probably with Dark Alleys because I mashed it all together in one box. Any pitfalls to watch out for? Also, how long does teaching Lords take? Bearing in mind that we're a super-slow group...
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Dec 17, 2014 23:57
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Somberbrero posted:When teaching Petz, I actually try to mention the flavor as explanations for game mechanics as we go along. It's pretty helpful, not everyone necessarily remembers that you need at least two Imps on the Cage space, but more people remember that an Imp is too small to carry a cage alone. Tekopo posted:I wouldn't recommend using the extra board from Dark Alleys (the one with more actions) until you are familiar with the game, because it can of breaks some of the established rules in the base game (for better, but it makes things a lot more complex). I would also suggest taking out the advanced pets/cages/additions/artifacts from Dark Alleys until you know what you are doing. Tekopo posted:I wouldn't recommend using the extra board from Dark Alleys (the one with more actions) until you are familiar with the game, because it can of breaks some of the established rules in the base game (for better, but it makes things a lot more complex). I would also suggest taking out the advanced pets/cages/additions/artifacts from Dark Alleys until you know what you are doing. Lords is already looking like a weekend-only game, especially with the teaching time. We'll be getting a game in before New Year, it looks like.
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Dec 18, 2014 00:19
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Yas posted:Through the Ages or Nations? I know TtA is well regarding both here and in general but I figured I would ask the thread if they have any strong opinions towards Nations. Nations is shorter and more streamlined but feels easier, to me at least, to thoroughly bone yourself irretrievably (at least in TtA you can guarantee that every card apart from a couple of age A ones will come out so you know what you need to get when) but Nations has a lot fewer fiddly bits to track and is generally quicker. TtA also has direct, targeted attacks, on a per-player basis which Nations doesn't. So it depends what you're looking for really.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:14
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Tekopo posted:There's a series of pictures on the CGE website/on BGG that shows you where to place what. The only thing I couldn't figure out was where the enhanced tunnel tiles go. But it looks like they're just supposed to jam in with the tunnel tiles. I REALLY like the fact that it comes with mini boxes for all the bits. More games should do that, especially when you want to be getting the bits out and having them available as a supply.
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Dec 19, 2014 18:43
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Rutibex posted:Your bro needs Agricola STAT  Seriously though for someone relatively new to the hobby, Caverna is a MUCH better intro to worker placement than Agricola. Better game overall for my money as well. Feels more like you're trying to win rather than desperately trying to not die.
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Dec 19, 2014 23:57
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Even when I was a new player I would far prefer to lose because I messed it up, than lose OR win because the RNG screwed someone. If I lose because I messed it up, I come out of it with a better idea of how to win next time. If I lose because the dice happened to hate someone... what did I learn about playing the game?
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Dec 20, 2014 15:50
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xopods posted:Or consider the Curses in Dominion... a lot of people hate playing with the Curse-based attacks. I'm not sure you'd go so far as to call them a design flaw, because in some setups they can actually be quite interesting. But you may very well reject/redraw/alter a kingdom draw where you've got Witch and Sea Hag and so forth and nothing to trash or otherwise deal with Curses... because they directly deny players' agency. Again, Dominion does have a luck factor, but it's not luck-based that your opponent decided to buy three Witches and fill your deck with Curses and now half your turns are "welp, handful of green and purple again, your turn." Sea hag is a swingy card; if all the players get it, and when it's played first, it flips an estate for one player and a sea hag for another, the latter player is closing on screwed. And it's not the worst card for that by a long short - Swindler is a lot more swingy for that sort of thing. Swingy cards in Dominion are problematic, but part of the game is a: playing lots of short games not one long one (particularly given how much first player advantage there is in DOminion) and b: knowing what's going to be swingy, and playing it appropriately.
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Dec 20, 2014 20:28
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Out of interest, does the tablet version of GT let you add illegal pieces?
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Dec 21, 2014 14:43
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Fat Turkey posted:Can someone explain how the app deals with the in real time building of the ships, on multi and single device? Is it the standard pulling tiles from a grid in real time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqc6c12jM2c I got curious. It looks good. I wish I had an iThingy.
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Dec 21, 2014 18:41
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I played Keyflower the other week. Enjoyed it a lot despite losing horribly. Would play again.
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Dec 24, 2014 12:36
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Gort posted:I was very sad to learn Dungeon Petz only does 4 players You learned wrongly. It does 3 and 2 players, but needs dummy players to work with smaller numbers. My first game was with three and seemed to work fine.
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Dec 24, 2014 15:32
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Ah, yeah. Even the expansion doesn't add players I don't think. It's a shame, I'm sure that it could work with 5, but it would need a lot more bits - more pets, as well as a different play board and an extra set of player bits.
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Dec 24, 2014 15:50
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echoMateria posted:Dungeon Petz is out of print sadly. Been that way for more than a year now. I placed an order for it at the place I shop regularly, the guy scoured all his sources and finally placed a backorder for it... and its been a year since, or more. I guess they'll do a Kickstarter for it with a bigger box like Dungeon Lords instead and that's why they haven't printed it again for so long. The recent kickstarter for Lords also included reprinting Petz. Don't know whether that translates into another printing though.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:56
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malkav11 posted:It did? I don't see that anywhere on the main page or in any of the updates. Did they say something about it in the video? (I never watch KS videos.) It was one of the extras, though I don't know whether it was an extra on its own or an add-on to the main DL Aniversary Edittion. I got DL Anniversary Edition, Petz and Dark Alleys for $204 delivered. Worth it.
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Dec 25, 2014 10:25
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Illegal Username posted:What's the best co-op game for two players? I'm a wargame turbosperg but i'd like a co-op boardgame i can play with my wife and maybe one or two friends occasionally. I own Arkham (which she likes but it it Arkham and thus takes a loving eternity) and Space Alert (Which is fun but not really the best for 2 players) Strangely enough given the other topic at hand, Mage Knight is a very good co-op game and good with two players.
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Dec 25, 2014 16:46
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GrandpaPants posted:I am requesting opinions on Patchistory. Is there a decent amount of player interaction? Is war handled well? I recall hearing some good things earlier in the thread, but I'd like corroboration and the counsel of the hive mind. Played it a couple of times, enjoyed it. I liked the patching mechanic, though a friend found it really frustrating - I guess I didn't overanalyse where to patch my pieces as much or got luckier with the placement of seas. Interaction is limited and whilst the wars and conflicts do directly target other players, there's not actually a lot of incentive to make war unless you get very lucky. War is EXPENSIVE. And I tended to WAY underestimate how much rock in particular is useful. The resource game is a tough one. I'd recommend it as a 4x-y game that you can actually play in an evening.
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Dec 27, 2014 02:18
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Yeah, LoW is really well-made, and a decent intro to worker placement. It's pretty simple, fairly random, and for a worker placement game, relatively high in theme if you remember what all your coloured cubes actually ARE. It's not amazing, but it's reasonably well-balanced and well-designed, certainly well-made, and a reasonable intro to the genre particularly for die-hard D&D players.
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Dec 27, 2014 19:02
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Not really. There are SO drat many possibilities, and part of the fun of the game is working out for a given random board, what the strategy is. However, Dominionstrategy.com has kingdom design challenges every so often so you might find some interesting boards there.
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Dec 28, 2014 14:35
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Hulk Krogan posted:So I realized that I'm missing a few pieces from my copy of Lords of Waterdeep + the expansion. The score track token for the grey expansion faction and one of the building markers for the green faction, specifically. Any suggestions on where to score replacements? I did some searching around and apparently WotC doesn't sell (or give out) replacements unless you bought a defective copy. Even just some place I can buy generic, colored wooden tokens would be fine. If you're OK with non-matching bits, buy some thick card (picture framing card for example) and cut them out using an x-acto or similar?
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Dec 28, 2014 22:00
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Tabletop managed to win it, and they're... not known for tactical acumen. Which leads me to guess that it's presumably possible.
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Dec 29, 2014 01:56
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Bobfly posted:On Dominion: I really love the game, but I'm so terribly bad at it. I feel like I kind of just do whatever, and so does my one regular opponent. The stories that come out of its thin theme are very funny in their absurdity, but I'd very much like to get to the chess part of the game as well. To expand: 3: learn that (absent things slowing it down) there's a fairly hard time limit to the game. If you just buy treasure and provinces/duchies according to an algorithm (3+: silver, 6+, gold, 8+ Province, when at least half the provinces are gone, 5 or less, duchies, I think it is) you will have enough points to win in 14 turns, on average. Engine-building is great fun but unless you have someway to either outpace 14 turns and be in the lead when you end the game, or to hoover up LOTS of VP after that time limit has expired or to slow your opponent(s) down, you will lose by building an engine. 4: learn trashing. This one's often key, because it takes a leap of logic to get to the point where you really understand why Chapel is a TOTALLY game-changing card which would probably be balanced at cost 5 or even 6, but costs 2 to make the game FUN for everyone. And why +2 cards, +1 action, trash 1 card would be fairly overpowered even at 5. 5: learn to recognise the key cards on a board which define its character - are there a couple of good draw cards and a village? It might be an engine board. Are there lots of attacks, or cheap VP liike Gardens with things to enable it (card gainers, +buy)? It's likely to be a slog board. Are there ways to massively reduce costs (bridge, horn of plenty) for a small amount of time? It might be a megaturn board. 6: Learn how to build towards engines and megaturns. In short, get the payload first, because the payload will work regardless of whether the rest of the engine is working. This is an expansion on the 'don't buy village' concept - you only need as many +action cards (villages, but also things like throne room, king's court, procession) as you have terminal action card *which appear in the same hand with them* - i.e. if you buy village after your first bridge, it's probably a wasted buy, because a second bridge probably wouldn't clash with the first one and would give you the bridge benefit twice per shuffle, where village/bridge would only give it once. 7: (getting more advanced): control your deck. Know roughly what the composition of your draw deck is at any given time - have you used both your Smithies this shuffle, or only one? If you have 3 cards left and your PLAY a Smithy, will you draw actions you can't play? Conversely, will you draw green cards and improve your next hand? Knowing when to reshuffle is also vital. If you're playing a BIIIG engine (Hunting Party often being a culprit as it dumps lovely cards into discard), then reshuffling in the middle of your turn means your next hand will be full of crap, because all your stuff in play isn't going into your draw deck. 8: Always be aware of the endgame, and try, if you can, to be aware of whether you're ahead or not. It's not a game about having the most points at the end, it's a game of *ending the game whilst you have the most points*. It's a subtle but important distinction, and it means being on the lookout for the three pile even if you could carry on draining provinces, or buying the last province even if you're in the middle of getting your engine firing, as long as it means you end the game whilst you're ahead. Forcing the game to end to your advantage is a crucial skill. 9: My final point; learn a few of the key cards and 2-card combos. Minion, for instance, is an engine all by itself. Goons is an insanely powerful card with the right support. King's Court is ludicrous (but only with the right actions to play it on). Rebuild is ridiculous. Then things like Native Village/Bridge, Beggar/Gardens, Horse Traders/Duke, Apprentice/Fortress, etc etc etc. That'll do for now. The real problem with learning high-level dominion these days is that the online implementations suck balls, so it's difficult to get a lot of games in a short time, which I found to be the only real way to get past certain skill barriers. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 11:09
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NuclearPotato posted:While we're on the subject of Dominion, I got the Alchemy expansion for Christmas, which I'm jazzed about, since it means I never have to pony up any money to buy Alchemy. Apprentice is the best card in the expansion and one of the best in the game. Alchemist and Golem have some interesting interactions, and Apothecary has one or two powerful combos, Familiar is ridiculous. The rest aren't amazing, though I'd disagree with Broken Loose's interpretation of University; it has some very interesting interactions with draw-to-x-cards cards and power 5s like Lab, Hunting Party, Minion etc. The rest aren't much cop, and the potion costs are awkward. broadly speaking a potion is ABOUT 3 money's worth, but that's not strictly true. Just having potions in play does have some occasionally interesting interactions with cards which care about money or unique cards though. But overall, apprentice aside, it's probably the worst set IME, though I've not played Guilds. Today I tried three new games - the intro game of Dungeon Lords, which i heartily enjoyed and in which I came second. It broke my frigging brain trying to optimise my action choices though arg seriously. great game though, really want to try the expansion out at the next possible opportunity. Praetor was an OK WP game with a couple of interesting mechanics, which I massively hosed up but would be interested to play again. [b]Love Letter/b] was quick, fluffy, very portable fun, to the point where I'm seriously considering getting a copy and just keeping it in my backpack. I'd love to try T'zolkin, especially as I have the mini-expansion for it that came in DL Anniversary Edition.
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Dec 31, 2014 00:21
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). So, two questions:
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Countblanc posted:Play 8-player Dominion At that point why not just play two games of 4-player Dominion?
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Dec 31, 2014 20:29
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It does?! I always thought it was hard-limited to 4 and the people playing with 5+ were using some sort of variant/houserules.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:42
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I've never once read the rulebook for dominion. I learned it entirely by playing on Isotropic apart from one or two sessions being taught it in person. Despite that, I know the rules better than anyone else in my group... E: Port Royal Traders are decent if nothing else for giving people difficult choices about which ships to discard. And they're pretty low cost.
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Dec 31, 2014 20:48
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Thing is, usually with hidden goals you should know what the goals *could be* so by paying attention to what your opponents are doing you should be able to play to your strengths and their weaknesses even if you're not sure what those strengths/weaknesses are.
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Jan 3, 2015 16:56
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Mega64 posted:It depends on how well-designed they are, and if they fit the type of game they're implemented in.
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Jan 3, 2015 17:01
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GrandpaPants posted:I remember seeing Phil Foglio at a Comic Con or some other convention about a decade or so back, and instead of promoting Girl Genius or, uh, whatever else he does (old school Magic art?), it was just a bunch of prints of cartoon titties. He and his wife used to do cartoon porn, basically. They stopped when they had kids. They also used to illustrate a column in Dragon, and have done a couple of reasonable comics. Buck Godot in particular is good.
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Jan 3, 2015 22:18
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I'd suggest Caverna (definitely this over Agricola, it's IME a better game, and the theme is a lot more obvious and fun), Galaxy Trucker, Dungeon Lords/Petz, Feudality, Belfort, Flash Point Fire Rescue as all being reasonable-to-excellent games with strong, fun themes. SmallWorld is good for theme but a fairly poor game unfortunately.
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Jan 4, 2015 15:26
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Bubble-T posted:I finally played Caverna yesterday and just found it weird. You're avalanched with resources all game from spaces that give you 3 different things at once, you can put them almost anywhere you want, and while adventuring dwarves feels pretty fun it's also basically just shopping for anything you need and can't get with the game's God resource (rubies). Final scores where 79-80-82 which makes me worried that it's too easy to just do whatever the hell you want with every path being balanced to roughly the same numbers. But they're PUNISHINGLY difficult by comparison, and for an introductory game, Caverna is just much, MUCH more forgiving and thereby, less likely to turn people off the hobby. My first try at Agricola nearly killed worker placement for me, because I got my rear end kicked just by the game board, let alone the other players. It just wasn't fun. These days, it's a toss-up and I'll happily play any of them, but as a beginner? Nope. And in terms of theme, Caverna wins hands down. And those two things were what the discussion was about  homullus posted:I only play it full co-op, so we always help with each other's turns. Also, if memory serves, the rules actually allow for some limited re-doing, as long as you haven't revealed new information. Yeah, co-op Mage Knight best Mage Knight. I wouldn't play it otherwise, the downtime is just too much.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:33
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Paradoxish posted:Suburbia is good and it is basically Simcity the board game, so I think you'd probably be alright going down that route. That said, I like Castles more (although I've only played it once) and I think it's probably better designed on the whole. For Suburbia, tile placement is generally just about adjacency and planning for future expansion. Castles has all of that, but extra spatial considerations piled on top thanks to the oddly shaped tiles. The master builder mechanic is pretty interesting too, and I think it helps to alleviate the multiplayer solitaire feel that Suburbia has. Yeah, seconding this - if you want SimCity the Board Game, that's Suburbia, basically. It lacks some of the elements - like laying water pipes and what have you, or volcanoes suddenly annihilating your poo poo - but at its core, suburbia is a very good city-building game.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:49
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QnoisX posted:Suburbia looks like a pretty good game too, is the expansion worth it to start out with or would that be something you'd want to add in later? You probably don't want to use it for your very first game, but beyond that, go for it, the expansion doesn't add a vast amount of complexity, and it's good.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:10
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Azran posted:Out of curiosity, what would be the best "gateway drug" games for friends & family whose gaming experience include Risk, Monopoly and Clue? Ticket to Ride is pretty widely held as a good gateway drug. It's got very simple mechanics (more straightforward than any of those) but a lot of depth.
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Jan 8, 2015 09:59
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God drat Dungeon Lords is really hard. Highly enjoyable but it kicked the poo poo out of us this evening. Horribly. I think I ended up with two points. The events in particular have the potential to be just VICIOUS. I really want to play again though. I've been trying to work out whether it's possible to get the first and second Paladins and not lose too hard, and it seems difficult. Adding the expansion next time. Eep.
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Jan 9, 2015 00:29
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Stumiester posted:A few nights back I managed to win a tight game by taking out both paladins - think I ended up with about 22 points? Yeah, I'm really pleased to have gotten it, it's really great fun even when it's kicking the hell out of you - but I really want to get better at it. The only thing that bothers me is that the 2 and 3 player variants seem a little... off somehow. We've only played 3 and 4 thus far but the fact that the dummy player doesn't take a room or a monster and thus gives the players who get those actions those rounds more choice and/or or cheaper actions... seems a little off. Don't think there's a fix for it, but it definitely seems like a game at its best with exactly 4.
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Jan 9, 2015 01:22
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