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PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Phelous, Lupa and Brad watch a VHS composed of people who are dicking around with a video camera AKA the AMHV VHS game. At lease the contestants did not piss away $47k.

PassTheRemote fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 2, 2015

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PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Gyges posted:

Actually, does Patreon count as gift money or some sort of contract payment? If it's the former, as long as no individual is giving you more than 10(14?) thousand a year you shouldn't be responsible for any taxes on it. Unless Patreon counts as the entity being gifted the money, in which case they're just giving the content providers however much a year. Which might be tax free for the first 10(14?)K?

Why would it be gift money, you have to pay taxes for any kind of crowdfunding. It would count as tips, and Patreon would have to send out a 1099 form at the end of the year. Bob probably did not figure that and save part of his earnings to pay those taxes. I thought this is why Lindsey made that tax video.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

New Baywatching: Point of Attack! Eddie inspires a troubled youth to be as least like him as possible.
http://phelous.com/2015/04/07/obscurus-lupa/baywatching/baywatching-point-of-attack/

Eddie got a save? Where was Mitch?

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

Ah you're right, sorry I got mixed up. Hobart is Dutch actually I think, which segues into Hubert and there's the German connection. I made a joke about this in the Pilot review I think, but it's been awhile.

Baywatch question, what are your thoughts on a Baywatch movie? I know Tom Lennon and Robert Garant wrote a script years ago, I also heard that Dwayne Johnson is signed on, but the writers are different. This was in October so I don't know when this would go into development or be released.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/paramount-moves-forward-baywatch-movie-707530

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

It's a luau party. Wish there was a funnier context to it. Newmie gets a pretty funny subplot that involves him wearing humorous toupees at one point though.


Um, there's only one Baywatch Movie, and that's Hawaiian Wedding. :colbert:

Seriously though, if it's anything like the Starsky and Hutch movie it might be kind of funny. It seems to be sort of in development atm so who knows if or when it'll ever come out. I'll definitely watch it though. Same goes for The B Team, an unofficial Baywatch movie that's in the works involving a lot of the Baywatch cast.

I would take a movie where Mitch tries to steal a save from Dwayne Johnson.

Here is an article regarding the Tom Lennon Script: http://splitsider.com/2013/08/tom-lennon-and-ben-garant-share-details-about-their-baywatch-movie/

There was an excerpt that was very interesting:

quote:

Lennon and Garant watched a bunch of old episodes of Baywatch to write the script and were surprised by how strange some of the plotlines were. "The plot of one of the episodes in the first season is that there’s a giant squid stealing people’s surfboards," says Garant. "That’s a real episode." Lennon adds, "It’s called 'Tentacles Pt. 1' and 'Tentacles Pt. 2.' It’s an insane series! They introduced the idea of a ghost in the second season."

:stare: Surfboard Stealing Squid?!

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

Thanks a lot man!


That's during the good season of Nights too.

I don't know what the guy's talking about saying it's in season one, because that episode is from season 4. And yes indeed there's a giant squid! There's also one where they encounter a deadly man-o-war jellyfish and it looks like this:



The thing about the ghosts is also season 4. If you want to get technical there's the episode where Eddie may or may not have seen a ghost in season 1 (the one that kills Kirby), but season 4 has an episode about blatant possession. Like there's no ifs on that one, it's literally a ghost.

As far as the Man-O-War, here is a picture of one, courtesy of WIkipedia:


It has no natural means of propulsion( the top part is a gas bladder of some kind), unlike regular jellyfish, so the prop is somewhat similar to how they look like in the wild. Except it is missing that sweet neon color scheme, nature's way of saying "see this, don't gently caress with it".

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Mr.Radar posted:

I just got a Patreon backer message from SF Debris which mentioned today is his 42nd birthday. Does that make him the oldest "internet critic"? Do any of the "internet critics" who frequent this thread see themselves still doing it at 42?

Leonard I think is older:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r73C0N8FDek

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

New Baywatching! Mitch does battle with a dog and Eddie attempts to make Shauni jealous.
http://phelous.com/2015/04/13/obscurus-lupa/baywatching/baywatching-thin-or-die/

That episode got really uncomfortable really quickly. My guess is that they wanted to take the piss out of Billy Warlock, but since they could not afford him to leave at that time (he would have forced Erica Liniac (sp?) to leave as well), they needed to make Shauni and the answering service lady sing Eddie's praises.

Also it says nowhere in the rulebook that a dog cannot help Mitch and Garner solve crimes.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

Oh man, if Nights had had a dog in it they might've lasted longer than two seasons!

Paranormal Tequila and Bonetti?

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

They gotta do it; it'd be the SECOND Tequila and Bonetti revival!

There was a revival?

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

Tequila and Bonetti was redone in Italy in 2000. Same lead actor, different dog. It's amazing it exists.

is there as much tonal whiplash as the original series?

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Mr. Fowl posted:

"This dog is lucky to be alive."
"It won't be for long..."

Is it ever explained why Mitch hates dogs?


Miss Wallace posted:

Phelan, Brad, and I watched the show for the first time together and it was a beautiful experience. The dog falling out of a hospital window at the end of an episode made us lose our poo poo.

I'm also on an obsessive Quantum Leap binge ever since I watched it for the first time, so seeing another bizarre and wonderful Bellisario show is great. Lots of Leap actors in it as well.

The mashup of Gritty cop show and talking dog sounds like a winner. I need to check out this seires.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

I think the franchise thing is really a spin-off from TV doing so much better nowadays. It used to be TV was kind of looked down on, "real actors" stuck to movies. But now that TV has stepped up its game and been given opportunities that weren't present before, lots of bigger actors are involved and the storytelling is far more satisfying than what can be told in one movie. And comics/superheroes are the perfect venue for franchises because they have pre-existing extended universes and name value. And more movies = more money, so hey.

EDIT: Yes to Rusted Root. Send me on my way...

Not only that, TV was almost always seen as a stepping stone to movies. The original SNL cast did not leave SNL to TV, they left to do movies.

TV becoming diversified not only drove down ratings for the networks, but meant that niche shows liked by a few million could still be hits, and more creative freedom. Shows like Breaking Bad would have never happened 15-20 years ago. Services like Netflix (DVRs as well) have helped, allowing binge watching to help people keep up with heavy serialized shows. Also, the technology has improved to the point that you can shoot TV with movie level cinematography.

I think TV is going through an evolution similar to what New Hollywood was in the late 60's and 70's.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

achillesforever6 posted:

Well its a good thing that the Russo Brothers seem to be the new darlings of Marvel since they are doing the next Avengers movies and hopefully the quality will be as good as Winter Soldier.

Winter Soldier got a lot of buzz, so I am happy for them.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Wheat Loaf posted:

I think it's been slowly percolating since 2000 or so. It probably started with The Sopranos (and possibly The West Wing, to a lesser extent).

I'm not saying it just started now, I know the rise of HBO original shows are where I place the start of the TV evolution to what it is now. The Soproanos was definitely a big part of that. You are right, In 2000, Breaking Bad would have been an HBO show, but it would never have been on basic cable. Basic cable needed HBO originals to be hits so the cable channels could try to emulate them.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.
I don't know what I just saw, but it was gloriously 80's.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Jay O posted:

I tried to do that sort of thing as a series with Inbetweens, but it didn't get many views, back when CPMs were make-or-break for that stuff, in a pre-Patreon world. So I tried to instead turn as many individual series anime reviews as I could into platforms to talk about larger topics in media or the anime industry, etc. This resulted in them taking way longer to make, of course. Unfortunately also during a time when I was rapidly falling out of love with the format and all its hassles/the hassles of TGWTG """celebrity."""

But I agree, I love videos in that vein. All of the internet criticism stuff I watch now is all talking about larger complicated topics in a conversational way, basically all the Team NChick crew's stuff. Haven't watched a "riff on a bad thing/weird thing" video in forever. I enjoyed some of them when they were educational, like Lewis' best videos where he would talk about the history of comics or specific franchises, but in the case of Doug's stuff or some other videos, where the "reviewer" doesn't know poo poo about their chosen media in general (holy hell does Doug not know poo poo about movies in general, why they're made, how they're made, basics of film criticism, etc.) it's just like...I'm too old for this. Somehow I have become too old for this.

This is not what brings in the clicks, though. My most-watched videos are "reviews" of titty shows and the Digimon retrospectives. Play to the children/adult-children, that's the bread and butter.

I love that even now, he's pretty clueless about films and narrative storytelling, but he's already made three movies, and people lap up his reviews and opinions.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Jay O posted:

Ha ha, I loved the changes they made to the season one conclusion, and according to interviews, Isayama was very approving of them too, even though they're quite different in what was up to that point a very faithful adaptation. Given how grim things have gotten in his manga as of late, I'm thinking he was down with a less "yay team!" conclusion to the whole Female Titan thing. Like, yay team is good, yay team is great, but Eren's arc has never really been headed down a "yay team" path, so it makes more sense to me to alter that conflict in the way that they did, where the victory is a little more skin-of-teeth hollow and Eren is not in control of the situation or really his own slowly darkening soul. It honestly matches up better with where the manga has been going over time than the comics' own "and then they successfully worked as a team" conclusion to the conflict. But it's a divisive change, I see people on both sides of it all the time.

I liken the ending of AoT anime like the ending of a horror movie, so while I never read the manga, I was not bothered by it.

Is there going to be another season of AoT?

WickedHate posted:

This is why Dragon Ball Z Abridged is so good. The people behind genuinely love Dragon Ball, but it's ridiculous and they really know how to have fun with it.

They also know how to make fun of it, while keeping it in the spirit of the show. They add tension to the fights, and there are scenes of genuine pathos. I have not seen any other abridged series that have come close to firing on all cylinders.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Didn't the Ultimate Muscle anime get an extra season produced because of its overseas popularity? That's the only example I can think of that I've heard about.

I know Big O got its second season due to it's popularity in the US, with Cartoon Network co-producing the second season.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

OldTennisCourt posted:

That looks....shockingly well done.

Doug and Mike should take notes.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Robert Denby posted:

What if Zach Snyder's "Man of Steel" Was in Color? has gotten a lot of attention in the last few days. Its by a group called VideoLab, which given that this is their only video on YouTube, seems to be a new outfit.

I do agree, I'm not a fan of super washed out movies. I think their restored color may be a bit too saturated, but I think it makes a better movie visually.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

SatansBestBuddy posted:

Honestly I get far more annoyed by his blocking and camera work than his writing. He's a very flat film maker, he films a lot of very basic "talking head" scenes where character's spacial relation to each other doesn't matter, what they're doing doesn't matter, the blocking is extremely basic "go here, then there, sit down, stand up", it's not motivated by action, there are almost no interesting camera angles, no playing around with the language of film to tell the story, it's all dialogue.


The issue with Whedon is that his camera work and blocking betray that he was a television guy from the 90's. The problem is that it's the mid 2010's, he needs to visually evolve to survive. He depends on writing, but while that can fly in TV, in film, you need the visuals as well. I like some of Whedon's older stuff; Avengers was ok (not the best movie of 2012 Moviebob).

I will see AoU, but I am happy the Russos are doing Infinity Wars.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Rebuttal: Anime chat


Spoony made a second part to his B-fest 2015 vlog, 2 weeks after his first one: http://spoonyexperiment.com/movie-reviews/b-fest-2015-reviews-part-2-metalstorm-the-destruction-of-jared-syn/

Looking at his output, I can't imagine why his Pateon support has dipped quite a bit. I mean, the last review he did was only two months ago, and it's been mostly wrestling vlogs since.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

I gotta point out that last month was also tax time and I lost a chunk of Patreon supporters as well.

That may be true, but his has been trending down for a while, and it's been almost a 20% drop in the value of his patreon. I think his lack of updates is hurting him in the long run.


Arcsquad12 posted:

Doug Walker needs to stop killing his jokes by explaining it to the audience for five minutes about what the joke is before it falls flat on its face.


I thought the worst joke he ever did was the how many Big Lebowski jokes counter he had in his True Gritt review, and when it was zero at the end of the review, he congratulated himself for not making easy references. Self-masturbatory bullshit.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.
The thing about DSP is that his popularity has really shrunk from when he started, but yeah, he's kind of dumb.

Example, DSP knows nothing about water heaters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-uzSwKZeQ8

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Arcsquad12 posted:

How about you both gently caress off with the petty slapfight and talk about how bullshit it is that Channel Awesome expects professional grade artists and is only offering them chump change in return?

CA is really big on paying people with exposure, but not actual money. Also, a link on the DVD case? Like anyone is going to type that in.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

lornekates posted:

At the very least-- the number of hours it takes to complete and deliver the piece * the minimum wage. That piece is going to take 10-20 hours, at least. Not counting for time spent designing, going back-and-forth on plans, incorporating client changes, etc. That rate can go up dramatically depending on the complexity, timeline, and skill-level of the artist. They want a two week turnaround from a professional, for a detailed piece. $50-$100 / hour is not unheard of. They should have just put up a posting saying "send us your portfolio. We'll commission an artist we like, and negotiate a rate". And then put aside up to $2k for the piece.

But $100?!?

Would you do whatever work you do, at a skilled, professional level, for $5-$10 / hour (before taxes)?

Would you do all that work for the CHANCE to be paid $5-$10 / hour for it? Keep in mind, if 100 other people apply, you only have a 1/100 chance of actually getting paid.

So would you do 20 hours of labour, for a 1% chance to maybe be paid half-to-a-third of minimum wage in most places?

(By "you", I mean the generic You, not Benny the Snake specifically).

And would you do it for a company that brought in $90k for the express purpose of paying to produce new products?

I think it's time we face facts that the 90K was never really going to go into making new products. That was lining pockets are used to cover something else. With that "gameshow" they released, even their claims of 47K are completely bogus.


Benny the Snake posted:

I get you. Personally speaking though, I have no frame of reference for freelance work so I was going in this completely ignorant. But yeah, even *I* could tell that the powers that be at Channel Awesome were criminally under-charging the artist.

And you know what? Doug's an artist, too! He should know better than to lowball an artist so much. This makes it official, Doug walker is a straight-up a hostile an exploitive employer, him and his brother Rob and that other chucklehead Mike.

I'd love to see Doug try to backpedal his way out of this. Doug even has to know that his artwork (from what I have seen) is nowhere near the level of a Struzan, and yet he gives the excuse the he would have killed for $100 of his art. Most of the time Doug tries to go the "I'm just an entertainer" line to distance himself from CA drama. He's just as culpable as Mike and Rob on this one.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

New Baywatching! Eddie is accused of statutory rape. Hilarious!
http://phelous.com/2015/05/14/obscurus-lupa/baywatching/baywatching-the-trophy/

Are the creepy episodes revolving around Eddie the show's way of trying to make him quit? Cause that 2 parter looked like it was really awkward.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

And the next Baywatching: If Looks Could Kill, wherein Mitch falls in love with a murderer.
http://phelous.com/2015/05/15/obscurus-lupa/baywatching/baywatching-if-looks-could-kill/

This show is amazing.

I feel that the Hoff's role in Sharknado 3 will not live up to the Baywatch craziness. My only hope is that he is still playing Mitch Von Malibu, making Ian Zering either Hobie 1 or 2.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.
I have never heard anyone not liking Fury Road. Brad and co. loved it I'm going to see it tomorrow, and I am very excited.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Hmmm, there is no felt skull, so 0/10 for Muppet Davis Aruni.

This is a great parody.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

achillesforever6 posted:

Uh Cane Toads can kill you if you like them, check and mate spoony :smugbert:

:goonsay: They should be called Teenage Mutant Ninja Tortoises guys, god.


I got like 10 seconds in that video. Spoony looks to be just an unpleasant person to be around.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Baka-nin posted:

New Pre-Rec is up. This time Rich and err the bald guy talk about the ********* a recent release by Nintendo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3w8ZNYoFEQ

This is much more fun that Angry Joe complaining about Nintendo.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

achillesforever6 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UP8daKWu00
Things I learned about Doug, he thinks Thunderdome is the best of the original Mad Max movies

I know it's opinion, but that's like stating Conan the Destoyer is the best one of the three Conan movies. I like Destroyer, but Conan the Barbarian is just so epic and mythic. Besides, I like my 80's action movies to be hard R rated.

I skipped Thunderdome when watching the series before Fury Road. The first one is interesting, as society is starting to break but has not yet collapsed. It feels more like a thriller than a straight up action movie.

The Road Warrior is a great movie, it launched tons of post apocalyptic cash in movies and the gimmicks of a number of 80's pro wrestlers.


^^All copies of Mad Max have the American redub. If a print with the original dub exists, I would love to see it.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

OldMemes posted:

Max is wearing leather because he's still wearing the scraps of his cop outfit. Why his cop outift leather? Because MFP weren't cops per say, they were the government's desperate attempt to try and control the gangs and social decay before the war - black leather is imposing, and you need to be imposing if guys like the Toecutter are the norm. Things are so bad in the first film that it seems that Max barely noticed the nuking of the world - Austrialia is in a pretty bad shape in these movies.

Also, Max's uniform looks similar to a bike cop's uniform, where the leather is used for protection (at one point he did have the helmet like a biker cop on patrol).

As far as post apocalypse, I would gather leather is more durable than most woven fabrics. Also they are in the desert, so where would they get cotton or wool?

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

OldMemes posted:

George Miller stated that Fury Road is the "word burgers of the History Men" of the future. That explains any errors in the canon of the films, the History Men made mistakes in their oral history, so they have a bunch of stories about Max, but don't know all the right facts.

Also: "word burgers".

Oh, George Miller. :allears:

Making the movies oral history does make the movies seem more mythic as well. The embellishments make a better story.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

achillesforever6 posted:

Much how they failed to realize that Brutal Legend was more about the Multiplayer than the singleplayer (and that it was an RTS, but EA made sure to hide that in its commercials)

Though I wish Brutal Legend's singleplayer was a bit less fast after the midway point. Mainly because Eddie Riggs is unironically my favorite character in any media ever, like for someone voiced by Jack Black he's surprisingly humble and not wanting the center of attention, it was really refreshing to see a main character like that in a video game.

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjQR9UQg7Wg
Suburban Knights is the worst Channel Awesome special for me at least.

For as much as I hate that special, to me To Boldly Flee offends me more.

I feel the CA specials just declining in quality. The brawl is the only one I can really say is good, because it was short and to the point.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

achillesforever6 posted:

I actually remember on the old Internet Critic thread that it was okay, but you know in retrospect it is pretty offensive with how much they just ape scenes from movies and call it "Parody"

Especially after the NC rant on the Friedberg and Seltzer movies. What Doug did is far worse.


MonsieurChoc posted:

To boldly Flee did give us the Spoony Dune scene, for what it's worth.

My retinas still have not recovered.

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Miss Wallace posted:

Someone once compared me and Brad by saying that if he's a steak from a fine restaurant that makes me cold hospital peas. It was the second best insult I've ever received.

It's always nice when people take time to come up with a good insult.

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PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

DStecks posted:

It's a fallacy because it's making a decision based on the imaginary prospect of a middle between two opposed decisions, rather than looking at the problem on your own and making a decision based on your observations. Taking a middle option is not inherently a fallacy, but presupposing that the middle option is correct by virtue of its middle-ness is a fallacy. It does not mean "compromises are fallacies" as many goons like to think.

It also fails because it assumes two rational arguments, one on each side. Sometimes, there is only one rational argument on a certain issue.

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