He flogged and beheaded some folks.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > He flogged and beheaded some folks.

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/23/saudi-arabias-king-misremembered-man-peace/

quote:

Saudi Arabia�s Tyrant King Misremembered as Man of Peace
By Murtaza Hussain

After nearly 20 years as de facto ruler of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah ibn-Abdulaziz al-Saud died last night at the age of 90. Abdullah, who took power after his predecessor King Fahd suffered a stroke in 1995, ruled as absolute monarch of a country which protected American interests but also sowed strife and extremism throughout the Middle East and the world.

In a statement last night Senator John McCain eulogized Abdullah as �a vocal advocate for peace, speaking out against violence in the Middle East�. John Kerry described the late monarch as �a brave partner in fighting violent extremism� and �a proponent of peace�. Not to be outdone, Vice President Joe Biden released a statement mourning Abdullah and announced that he would be personally leading a presidential delegation to offer condolences on his passing.

It�s not often that the unelected leader of a country which publicly flogs dissidents and beheads people for sorcery wins such glowing praise from American officials. Even more perplexing, perhaps, have been the fawning obituaries in the mainstream press which have faithfully echoed this characterization of Abdullah as a benign and well-intentioned man of peace.

Tiptoeing around his brutal dictatorship, The Washington Post characterized Abdullah as a �wily king� while The New York Times inexplicably referred to him as �a force of moderation�, while also suggesting that evidence of his moderation included having had: �hundreds of militants arrested and some beheaded� (emphasis added).

While granting that Abdullah might be considered a relative moderate within the brazenly anachronistic House of Saud, the fact remains that he presided for two decades over a regime which engaged in wanton human rights abuses, instrumentalized religious chauvinism, and played a hugely counterrevolutionary role in regional politics.

Above all, he was not a leader who shied away from both calling for and engineering more conflict in the Middle East.

In contrast to Senator McCain�s description of Abdullah as �a vocal advocate of peace�, a State Department diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks revealed him in fact directly advocating for the United States to start more wars in the region.

In a quote recorded in a 2008 diplomatic cable, Abdullah exhorted American officials to �cut the head off the snake� by launching fresh military action against Iran. Notably, this war advocacy came in the midst of the still-ongoing bloodshed of the Iraq War, which had apparently left him unfazed about the prospect of a further escalation in regional warfare.

Abdullah�s government also waged hugely destructive proxy conflicts wherever direct American intervention on its behalf was not forthcoming. Indeed, in the case of almost every Arab Spring uprising, Saudi Arabia attempted to intervene forcefully in order to either shore up existing regimes or shape revolutions to conform with their own interests.

In Bahrain, Saudi forces intervened to crush a popular uprising which had threatened the rule of the ruling al-Khalifa monarchy, while in Syria Saudi-backed factions have helped turn what was once a popular democratic uprising into a bloody, intractable proxy war between regional rivals which is now a main driver of extremism in the Middle East.

Saudi efforts at counterrevolution and co-optation under Abdullah took more obliquely brutal forms as well.

In the midst of the 2011 revolution in Egypt, when seemingly the entire world was rallying in support of the protestors in Tahrir Square, King Abdullah stood resolutely and unapologetically on the side of Hosni Mubarak�s regime. When it seemed like Mubarak was wavering in the face of massive popular protests, the king offered to step in with economic aid for his government and demanded that President Obama ensure he not be �cast aside�.

A few years later when the pendulum swung back towards dictatorship after General Abdelfattah al Sisi�s bloody 2013 coup, Abdullah and his fellow monarchs were there to lavish much needed financial assistance upon the new regime. This support came with the endorsement of Sisi�s unrelentingly brutal crackdown on Egypt�s former revolutionaries.

With increasingly disastrous consequences, Abdullah�s government also employed sectarianism as a force to help divide-and-conquer regional populations and insulate his own government from the threat of uprising. It also cynically utilized its official religious authorities to try and equate political dissent with sinfulness.

This ostentatiously reckless behavior nevertheless seemed to win Abdullah�s regime the tacit approval of the American government, which steadfastly continued to treat him as a partner in fighting terrorism and maintaining regional stability.

Despite recent tensions over American policy towards Iran and Syria, Saudi under King Abdullah played a vital role in U.S. counterterrorism operations. The country quietly hosts a CIA drone base used for conducting strikes into Yemen, including the strike believed to have killed American-born preacher Anwar al-Awlaki. More controversially, Abdullah�s government is also believed to have provided extensive logistical support for American military operations during the invasion of Iraq; an uncomfortable fact which the kingdom has understandably tried to keep quiet with its own population.

Perhaps most importantly however, King Abdullah upheld the economic cornerstones of America�s long and fateful alliance with Saudi Arabia: arms purchases and the maintenance of a reliable flow of oil from the country to global markets. The one Saudi king who in past failed to hold up part of this agreement met with an untimely end, and was seemingly on less positive terms American government officials.

Given the foundations upon which American-Saudi ties rest, its unlikely that the relationship will be drastically altered by the passing of King Abdullah and the succession of his brother Prince Salman. Regardless of how venal, reckless, or brutal his government may choose to be, as long as it protects American interests in the Middle East it will inevitably be showered with plaudits and support, just as its predecessor was.

This is a thread for discussing and collating the hideous hagiography that Serious people are doing on a murderous tyrant who ran one of the most oppressive governments in the world, and considering what this means for propaganda about how they believe in Freedom and Democracy,

# ? Jan 23, 2015 15:37

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:31

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/half-masting-of-flags-following-the-death-of-king-abdullah-bin-abdulaziz-king-of-saudi-arabia

Half-masting of flags following the death of King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, King of Saudi Arabia

It is with great regret that we learn of the death of the King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, King of Saudi Arabia.

It is requested that all flags be half-masted from 8am today until 8pm this evening.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 15:41

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Tezzor posted:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/23/saudi-arabias-king-misremembered-man-peace/

This is a thread for discussing and collating the hideous hagiography that Serious people are doing on a murderous tyrant who ran one of the most oppressive governments in the world, and considering what this means for propaganda about how they believe in Freedom and Democracy,

Nope, it's a thread for discussing whether Lawrence of Arabia lied about being sexually assaulted by the Bey of Dera'a in 1917, and why he did so, and also whether he would have kissed me on the lips, now.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 15:43

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

Was he behind 9/11?

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:07

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Fish of hemp posted:

Was he behind 9/11?

Probably not, although there is certainly something to be said for the fact that his government was, by any standard, a state sponsor of terrorism, and most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:19

boom boom boom: Jun 28, 2012; by Shine

Effectronica posted:

Nope, it's a thread for discussing whether Lawrence of Arabia lied about being sexually assaulted by the Bey of Dera'a in 1917, and why he did so, and also whether he would have kissed me on the lips, now.

He wouldn't've kissed you.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:22

cucka: Nov 4, 2009; TOUCHDOWN DETROIT LIONS
Sorry about all
the bad posting.

A relative moderate in a country of intolerance is worth noting, as progress almost never happens whole cloth, but yeah, he wasn't a very good person.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:27

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

boom boom boom posted:

He wouldn't've kissed you.

Holy poo poo, forum cancers still a thing?

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:28

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

boom boom boom posted:

He wouldn't've kissed you.

Rude. Uncalled for.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:37

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

cucka posted:

A relative moderate in a country of intolerance is worth noting, as progress almost never happens whole cloth, but yeah, he wasn't a very good person.

Saudi Arabia's intolerance and oppression did not fall from the sky. They were created in large part by policies enacted by Abdullah and his family. Wahabbism, for example, is a particular and extreme interpretation of Islam which has been the primary force of Islamic radicalism, and has been nurtured and protected by the Sauds for decades now.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:43

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

duck monster posted:

Holy poo poo, forum cancers still a thing?

Considering how it was implemented they probably don't know how to disable it.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:46

boom boom boom: Jun 28, 2012; by Shine

duck monster posted:

Holy poo poo, forum cancers still a thing?

Another pointless attempt to silence discussion about Gamergate

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:51

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

He was no angel.

# ? Jan 23, 2015 16:51

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

Tezzor posted:

Saudi Arabia's intolerance and oppression did not fall from the sky. They were created in large part by policies enacted by Abdullah and his family. Wahabbism, for example, is a particular and extreme interpretation of Islam which has been the primary force of Islamic radicalism, and has been nurtured and protected by the Sauds for decades now.

The house of Saud, while far from being perfect, gave a voice to the followers of Mohammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab and Sayyid Qutb, two of the most important shapers of modern Islamic identity, and as well as two of the most stalwart enemies of liberalism and the cultural homogenization driven by global capitalism.
Criticisms of "Wahbbism" are a cheap and tawdry way to disguise Islamophobia, because by proxy you insult the noble Salafs, and to do so is to insult the ummah:

quote:

�And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers [the companions] - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination."
http://quran.com/4/115

You're also applying a western standard to a parallel path of modernization and human development- one that has managed to, in the course of a few generations, to nearly double the life expectancy of millions of nomads, while at the same time preserving tawheed, which is more precious than you can understand

is something someone could conceivably argue. edit:(this post is a joke SFOD-D don't kill me)

Dilkington fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 24, 2015

# ? Jan 23, 2015 22:30

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

I'm surprised at the lack of interest. For example, where are the people who denounce Putin because they are just aghast at the comparatively insignificant Russian restrictions on homosexuality?

# ? Jan 24, 2015 01:15

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Tezzor posted:

I'm surprised at the lack of interest. For example, where are the people who denounce Putin because they are just aghast at the comparatively insignificant Russian restrictions on homosexuality?

Generally those folks also dislike the Saudi monarchy.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 01:18

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Qom, Saudomy, and the Lash

# ? Jan 24, 2015 01:27

mandatory lesbian: Dec 18, 2012

Effectronica posted:

Nope, it's a thread for discussing whether Lawrence of Arabia lied about being sexually assaulted by the Bey of Dera'a in 1917, and why he did so, and also whether he would have kissed me on the lips, now.

He'd have kissed you, long and lovingly and with a passion unknown to modern man

# ? Jan 24, 2015 01:28

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Saudi Arabia is probably the only country in the world that is worse in all ways then the US.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 01:48

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Powercrazy posted:

Saudi Arabia is probably the only country in the world that is worse in all ways then the US.

Obviously you haven't been to Somalia recently

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:07

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Effectronica what is your av from also the king was prob gay

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:24

Pope Fabulous XXIV: Aug 15, 2012

They may be a medieval theocracy, but at least they're our medieval theocracy. :patriot:

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:36

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Dilkington posted:

The house of Saud, while far from being perfect, gave a voice to the followers of Mohammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab and Sayyid Qutb, two of the most important shapers of modern Islamic identity, and as well as two of the most stalwart enemies of liberalism and the cultural homogenization driven by global capitalism.
Criticisms of "Wahbbism" are a cheap and tawdry way to disguise Islamophobia, because by proxy you insult the noble Salafs, and to do so is to insult the ummah:

I agree it sure is anti-imperialistic to behead homosexuals

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:37

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Typo posted:

I agree it sure is anti-imperialistic to behead homosexuals

I think for the foreseeable future, both imperialist and anti-imperialist tendencies in the Arabian Peninsula will involve the beheading of homosexuals.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:40

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

Dilkington posted:

The house of Saud, while far from being perfect, gave a voice to the followers of Mohammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab and Sayyid Qutb, two of the most important shapers of modern Islamic identity, and as well as two of the most stalwart enemies of liberalism and the cultural homogenization driven by global capitalism.
Criticisms of "Wahbbism" are a cheap and tawdry way to disguise Islamophobia, because by proxy you insult the noble Salafs, and to do so is to insult the ummah:

You're also applying a western standard to a parallel path of modernization and human development- one that has managed to, in the course of a few generations, to nearly double the life expectancy of millions of nomads, while at the same time preserving tawheed, which is more precious than you can understand

is something someone could conceivably argue

Sorry but Wahbbism is poo poo tier Islam. Fuckers destroyed their own heritage sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:52

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

Tezzor posted:

I'm surprised at the lack of interest. For example, where are the people who denounce Putin because they are just aghast at the comparatively insignificant Russian restrictions on homosexuality?

I think that is because most people assumed that Russia was at least somewhat of a modern society while assuming that most people in Saudi Arabia were like Dilkington. There was a point in history where Russia was not as homophobic as it is today, and the current homophobia stretches far beyond simply the law that was passed in the Duma. Russia has taken a strikingly homophobic turn in the past few years whereas Saudi Arabia is the same as it has been for a while.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 02:56

Darkman Fanpage: Jul 4, 2012

MaxxBot posted:

I think that is because most people assumed that Russia was at least somewhat of a modern society while assuming that most people in Saudi Arabia were like Dilkington. There was a point in history where Russia was not as homophobic as it is today, and the current homophobia stretches far beyond simply the law that was passed in the Duma. Russia has taken a strikingly homophobic turn in the past few years whereas Saudi Arabia is the same as it has been for a while.

Yeah the revival of the Orthodox Church has a lot to do with that I feel.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 03:06

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

King Ralph was the last true monarch.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 03:22

pro starcraft loser: Jan 23, 2006; Stand back, this could get messy.

While going from the 5th century into the 6th is technically progression is still loving sucks.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 03:38

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Darkman Fanpage posted:

Effectronica what is your av from also the king was prob gay

The videogame Persona 2: Innocent Sin

# ? Jan 24, 2015 03:44

Graic Gabtar: Dec 19, 2014; squat my posts

You can't make an omelette without flogging and beheading a few eggs.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 04:49

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Beheading is really one of the most humane methods of execution, the issue is more who you are beheading and why.

Behead all aristocrats, except that will never happen to any disgusting criminals against humanity who happen to support American interests.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 05:42

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Its his counterrevolutionary nature which Abdullah is lauded for. If anything, he hadn't had beheaded nearly enough folks.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 05:50

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

Dilkington posted:

The house of Saud, while far from being perfect, gave a voice to the followers of Mohammad Ibn Abd Al Wahhab and Sayyid Qutb, two of the most important shapers of modern Islamic identity, and as well as two of the most stalwart enemies of liberalism and the cultural homogenization driven by global capitalism.
Criticisms of "Wahbbism" are a cheap and tawdry way to disguise Islamophobia, because by proxy you insult the noble Salafs, and to do so is to insult the ummah:

You're also applying a western standard to a parallel path of modernization and human development- one that has managed to, in the course of a few generations, to nearly double the life expectancy of millions of nomads, while at the same time preserving tawheed, which is more precious than you can understand

is something someone could conceivably argue

I was going for a fun pastiche of some twitter users I followed back in 2011. I, poster Dilkington, don't actually believe these things.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 06:18

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

No see he couldn't make changes in the flogging and head chopping and probably stoning poo poo because he had to answer to

uh...

poo poo give me a sec.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 06:31

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

No see he couldn't make changes in the flogging and head chopping and probably stoning poo poo because he had to answer to

uh...

poo poo give me a sec.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 06:49

NoEyedSquareGuy: Mar 16, 2009; Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."

If Saudi Arabia can behead people as a matter of state policy and still be allies, maybe it's not that hard to make peace with ISIS instead of going around doing wars.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 06:53

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

If Saudi Arabia can behead people as a matter of state policy and still be allies, maybe it's not that hard to make peace with ISIS instead of going around doing wars.

ISIS doesn't behead the right people. If ISIS started beheading militant islamists, jihadis, communists, and accepted the right of Israel to exist, then it wouldn't be ISIS.

Unfortunately, individuals like yourself refuse to distinguish between a justified beheading and an unjust beheading.

# ? Jan 24, 2015 07:30

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Of course its always "My beheading is the only moral beheading" with you people isn't it?

# ? Jan 24, 2015 11:08

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:31

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Sorcerer attacks jump 70%

# ? Jan 24, 2015 11:38

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