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Local politics sim would be a huge turnoff for me unless it involved the devs inadvertently creating predictive psychohistory or something. My biggest frustration with city builders is that they almost universally take postwar Californian assumptions about RCI and car culture as gospel to begin with; bodging local ideas about the structure of local governance and which interest groups are significant/what they want on would either devolve into randomized filler quests for ten I'd like to see a hybrid agent-statistical model, with areas (whether on a regional map or just calculated by distance from housing) only popping agents if their demands can't be met by an underlying capacity pool. Agents' dumb fixations make a lot more sense for long commuters or tourists than locals anyway, I think most of us know the back ways out of our development or the local alternate transit lines and don't rate the minute or two they add during high traffic or construction, but are far less likely to do anything but sit in traffic getting more frustrated when we're out of town or on our way to non-walkable work or shopping. I'd also like to see meaningful seasons (speaking of SimCity's regional assumptions...) impacting road speed and capacity, power use in the summer and power use or pollution in the winter, tourism based on geography, etc. With Cities (and SimCity if they ever revive it) covering RCI and Workers and Resources covering a planned economy model, I'd love to see a game take on Japanese-style maximum-nuisance-allowed zoning from anything but the A-Train angle where you're just handling transit and ploppables in a small area that's specifically being developed in a way advantageous for a rail operator. Replace direct RCI control with a series of zones that have gradually increasing infrastructure demands but also varying max capacities for each; give it gameplay rather than just being a self-adjusting terrarium by making redevelopment take years rather than hours, requiring the player to deal with demand shifts by spinning up new development, with a bias within its potential capacity range based on which developer it's handed to, on a months scale instead (and eventually renewing the old development as it continues to decline in desirability.) spincube posted:My bright idea was to replace currency with political capital - so instead of twiddling around with tax percentages or CUTTING FUNDING AND REGRETTING IT or whatever, you'd simply auto-generate an income of capital based on who likes you at any given moment. Pass industry-friendly legislation and factory owners will end up making up your voter base, with more and more capital flowing in as you crush the proletariat beneath your Italian loafers, etc. Like, to illustrate, the problem with this (apart from the death spiral of losing the support you need to fully push through a switch of patrons as a result of beginning to switch patrons, probably quite accurate but not a very fun game) is that even in the extremely restrictive 1900-to-2000 American window the bourgeois are going to start wanting industrial support and transition to wanting high-land-value urban housing, the professionals are going to start wanting commerce and end wanting industry, the proles are going to start wanting low-land-value urban housing and end wanting rural housing and commerce, and so on. You could make an interesting scripted game but it would be pretty railroaded into meta builds, and directly in conflict with the planning and building based on terrain aspect; on the other hand, going ahistorical is just random missions except that occasionally sound really absurd. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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I was thinking further on how you'd represent various types of mixed-use development, and came to the conclusion that it could also handle parking lot paucity (even compared to suburban Asia) and the impact it has on both real city design and car supremacy in city builders well. For the mixed-use part, I think the key is to maintain a library of building 5x5m tiles, 1x1 for a low-value 4-resident SFDH or an 8-worker convenience store with parking all the way up to 100x160 for a 30,000-worker heavy industrial plant in the mold of Boeing's Seattle operations. Rather than just scaling how much demand is satisfied based on zone type + land value, and assigning a random map representation based on category, give each building stats in each of your RCI (or expanded RCI) categories; weight the choosing of each new building based on how well it matches the current RCI demand, and do not allow bulldozing of non-abandoned buildings (or allow it on a very long delay, traffic penalties, etc.) Zone types govern which of these tiles are available in the pool and their weights rather than the direct stats. IE, for the Japanese model, exclusively R and C 1x1s or 2x1s (4/0/0 SFDH, 12/0/0 studios, 0/400/8 all 8 low-ed convenience stores, 0/40/4 2 low ed/1 medium ed/1 high ed offices) for Low-rise Residential 1, all the way up to literally any tile in the game that will fit which isn't heavy industry in Quasi-Industrial, followed by a quick fade to I-only. Let the player nudge weighting when they have an idea of what's coming in the near future, and have more manageable/coherent political factions to deal with if you want to simulate that, by being able to partner for development in selected blocks/areas with different groups, everything from land advertising efforts who will prioritize SFDH and offices to rail companies who will spam high-C buildings while demanding a tract of land for a station in exchange for building the transit spur themselves. Making parking -also- a stat that can be provided to the building, ie giving it R/C/I/P numbers and having P quickly fill up and cap all other capacity unless walkability and transit are provided in a way that's only solved by mass spam of mediocre R or C/mediocre P combos or 1x1 lots that only provide P, would do a lot to make the lot sprawl look more realistic, to accentuate the difference between a town which can't take advantage of the highest R/C buildings and a city which can, and to cut down on auto traffic centeredness by creating a class of pop that quite literally can't get on the roads (since their home has no or insufficient P.) E: To integrate with the hybrid statistical-agent model: Each building provides RCIP in varying amounts (which may be 0 in some or all categories) and demands infrastructure in rough scale. Player's first choice: heavy infrastructure spending for eventually high-value high-rise, or lighter infrastructure spending for quickly mid-value low-rise? Area (max. 100x100 or 200x200? auto-blocked out on highway connection or transit station construction, logic like Civ culture?) calculates its total R, C, and I. Lowest is subtracted from the other two to cover internal foot traffic. Once complete, sweep the area map and also remove any demand that's covered in two street or transit hops. Once that's complete, sweep the map and remove any demand that's covered in five street hops or fifteen highway hops, but also remove a P at either end. If that leaves an area with no more P, remove it from consideration. Add the number of P used to baseline traffic. Expand as necessary for an RCI model that includes offices, entertainment, etc. Schools for example could also be implemented this way, as a proportion of R which demands S rather than I. Introduce C(Luxury)/I(Specialist)/E(Experience) demands, and pop agents with a regionwide range for these, ruining parking and traffic in your downtowns. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jun 12, 2021 |
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Jun 12, 2021 02:21
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A-Train is kind of like that, you play the exec of a local transit monopoly rather than a god-mayor and the city grows itself around your network and limited selection of ploppables.
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May 29, 2022 02:00
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Albino Squirrel posted:I don't think it would be difficult to implement, but from a game mechanic aspect it is a bit problematic - why would you zone anything BUT mixed-use? You'd have to be careful in how you implemented it, or give it some relevant disadvantage compared to single-use residential/commercial/office zoning, or else your downtowns are all going to look identical. You zone, at least by the Japanese model (which isn't solely Japanese, my own small city in the US has something similar), within categories of mixed-use. So 12 standard categories and two nonstandard: 0) Unzonable land, allocated at the national level. Preexisting structures and the remodeling thereof is allowed. Essentially, this is your adjacent plots in SC4/C:S, land you can subsequently expand into as some kind of reward; additionally under this model you would have a small existing pop and ag base that a major goal as a starter town would be to provide services for before incorporating. To make it into the skeleton of a game: Starter: 1) Lowrise residential A. SFH, duplex through around septuplex studios. Also allows schooling through age 18, clinics, religious buildings, and extremely smallscale retail (think those antique shops or bookstores people run from their bottom floor. 2) Lowrise residential B. As 1, but also allows farmer's markets, diners, etc. Hit 100 pop, unlock avenues (2/1, turn lanes, etc), stoplights, one-way. 3) Midrise residential A. As 1-2, but also allows small detatched or single-level entire-floor stores and restaurants, and single-tile light industry. Hit 500 pop, unlock 4-lane intersettlement and construction of passenger rail stations on existing lines. 4) Midrise residential B. As 1-3, but also allows hospitals, universities, larger stores and restaurants. 5) Dense residential A. As 1-4, but also allows stores up to 100 tiles, 4-tile light industry, offices (read, high-education clean I), and hotels. Hit 1000 pop, unlock boulevards (4-lane), trams, buses. 6) Dense residential B. As 1-5, with the addition of 4-tile entertainment and its traffic and noise pollution. 7) Quasi-residential. As 1-6, with the addition of 16-tile entertainment, 8-tile light productive industry, and warehouses (I, minimal pollution, loooots of traffic). Hit 5000 pop, unlock construction of new light rail lines. 8) Neighborhood commercial. As 1-7, with the addition of commercial buildings of unlimited size. 9) Commercial. As 1-8, and uniquely, unlike the rest of the system, adds nightlife: C, high noise pollution, high crime, simulation gives a large penalty to the primary education attractiveness of the area for R development purposes? Hit 10000 pop, unlock 6-lane roads and heavy rail spur construction but not signaling or internal lines. 10) Quasi-industrial. As 1-8, additionally allows medium pollution I. Hit 25000 pop, unlock full heavy rail and metro construction. 11) Industrial. As 1-8 except disallowing hotels, schools, universities, and unlimited-size C, additionally allows high pollution I. 12) Exclusively industrial. Allows only clinics, religious buildings, entertainment, all industry. Hit 50000 pop: Ω) Arcologies and other ploppable special buildings. In cases of inadequate services, buildings will become abandoned, then reroll among the pool that services support, as in SC or C:I. The challenge of the game, like the challenge of Japanese zoning, is that you can't directly force a tile-occupier to move along as you upzone; you need to provide an attractive space for that agent to move to or they'll keep their nail house, opening the option of just sprawling fresh zones away from existing services but then having to build new ones, similar to how W&R handles it. You also can't simply layer 9 or even 6-8 or 10 everywhere, as 9 in particular is extremely unattractive to pops with children and 6-8 require high-end transit throughout while the noise pollution makes it not quite as attractive residentially (and, of course, to provide much I you need 10 with its pollution).
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Jun 30, 2022 22:55
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I feel like sliders and granular policies would kill the point, both as a didactic example of maximum-nuisance zoning, as a game of having to maintain ratios where you don't have direct control of what gets built (and don't have that bulldozer! Or at least need to manage your money more carefully, to buy out and eventually resell tiles.), and of keeping the zone type count manageable. Though 12 zones is, let's be honest, only 3 more than SC4 throws at you. You could, however, in the interest of catering to RCIbrain, condense down 1+2, 4+5, 8+9, and 11+12 with district policy. At which point you'd be left with a zone lineup that looks like: Lowrise R (policy to exclusively roll R buildings), Midrise R Midrise Rural C (policy to allow big-box), Midrise Town C, Highrise C, Highrise Urban C (policy to allow nightlife) Mid-intensity I, High-intensity I (policy to exclusively roll I buildings) That gives you fewer direct zone types to deal with than SC4, while also letting you bill it as the only citybuilder to simulate an actual, real-life zoning policy.
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Jul 1, 2022 21:05
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Grand Fromage posted:I'm not sure how often it happens vertically, but Japan has a lot of horizontal mixed use R/I and it's fine. Not giant factories, little non-polluting light industry mixed through neighborhoods. Japan does nuisance rather than usage zoning, so roughly C=R=SFH considered from a transit perspective and I=C if no pollutants are involved. I think I've effortposted about it earlier. C:S2 doing this is a long stretch, but drat would I love it in something other than A-Train.
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Mar 7, 2023 09:26
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nielsm posted:Actually the maps should start out pre-filled with farms that were there before you arrive with your city plans. And also pre-built country roads, which are maybe private or state-owned, but the moment you start touching those roads they become yours to maintain. I want to do V3/CK3 council events every March for 20 years until I reach the slider mark where the town is ALLOWED to maintain one, getting to pave it is another 30 and rerouting it is a Stellaris DLC. I mean, I don't actually want to but it's sure what I grew up with.
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Mar 7, 2023 09:46
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I don't mind the idea of citizen demands in theory, but in practice they're going to come from exactly the hegemonal mindspace that RCI absolutism and carbrains already do and I don't think it makes a good game to have a city simulator where you play as its planner based entirely on examples where cities are deliberately broken free from any sort of useful planning. Nor would I have any desire to play a Robert Moses sim where you're playing to sneak as many nods to the upper crust in as possible even though there are better options, though at least that could make a mechanically interesting game. What would be interesting would be to have greater maps you couldn't access directly--could be, but wouldn't have to be, actually simulated or drawn from other players--and pump up the granularity of industrial production, such that you had to spin the plates of redeveloping to fit the overall needs of the region and either maintaining enough population/political pull to not have SC2K-military-base-style untouchable land forced on you or figuring out how to turn such things into positives.
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Apr 30, 2023 22:03
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Deltasquid posted:I'd like a city planner with actual friction where you can't just bulldoze through a neighborhood and create a new offramp instantly. Like it should be significantly more expensive and building any infrastructure should take time (same way growable buildings don't pop in overnight, they need to be actually built). W&R does that to varying degrees, if you haven't tried it. Some difficulties let you cash-slam construction but not all and your budget can only be replenished with exports, you can't demolish residential without first moving the residents and if you move them to slums they'll defect, and while there aren't petitions there are a variety of civic wants-but-not-needs that gradually phase into feasibility as you expand (and sometimes at cross-purposes, building bars or recommissioning old churches on the map can give a happiness boost early but make it harder to keep up health or loyalty as you go on, or drain happiness if you scrap them until people are weaned off). Mandoric fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 30, 2023 |
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Apr 30, 2023 23:44
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To the extent that light rail is a thing, the distinguishing factor of light rail is people screeching "but cars might have to stop! and wait!". Boston and LA both internally distinguish them even though both are standard gauge for each and large portions of the Boston "subway" system run above ground and large portions of the Boston "light rail" system run through tunnels; both consider their primarily streetcar-derived network light rail and their primarily ex nihilo or standard passenger rail-derived network subway, and both operate longer trains on the portion they consider subway.
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Jul 3, 2023 21:40
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Lakitu7 posted:I'm really hoping they get it to run decently on my 1080. Sure the card is 7y old but there's literally no other game I want to play that has unacceptable performance on the current setup (probably because I'm a 1440P guy, not a 4K guy, and I play a lot of not-demanding indies). Elden Ring, Horizon Zero Dawn, RDR2 all run at 1080p/45-60fps, so I'm loathe to feel like I need a new system just for this game. The last decade has really slowed down considerably on the need for new gaming computers every few years. It's hard to imagine that a lot of people are going to buy a new system years earlier than planned because of this game alone. I think part of the annoyance for some people is that pretty cities aren't necessarily what they're playing for, or what they've previously upgraded for. I get that "it's a Lego set" is probably an even more common draw, I'm constantly in awe of what other people can accomplish, but also I want an ant farm, wouldn't really mind it looking like hi-res SC2k as long as some of that res went to better tile granularity for curves and footpaths, and since that's my taste and I've been upgrading CPU and RAM for other games that cover my niche it stings a bit to hear "a responsive UI will be $400+".
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Oct 22, 2023 17:25
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He means he wants nothing dumb to be going on, but he's also fine in its own way if it's so egregiously dumb that even modders can day-/week-1 fix it.
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Oct 23, 2023 18:21
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Also, like with the CS:1 example mentioned above, sometimes simple things can just slip by attention. If you know perf is gonna be a significant problem because your expected "standard user" just put together a $1,500 computer in 2028, and you're crunching night and day trying to figure out close-enough facsimiles of really complex logic to hold things together until then, you might write the chugging off as expected and never look back and realize that "draw gif on sign" is loading 1,000 copies of the same gif when you have 1,000 signs in view. As an anecdote, FF14 was a significantly bigger AAA project likewise aimed at future computers and still being visually competitive years later, it likewise performed like a dog at launch, and eventually it turned out that (among many, many other issues) every barrel or bottle or potted plant or mug was as detailed as a player character. Walk into a cozy bar or down a landscaped boulevard, and yikes, it was like the entire server population was logged in standing there.
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Oct 23, 2023 21:51
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On the plus side, turning everything to very low/off makes it run acceptably on a 1060ti. On the minus side, off a few hours: - The view filters for placing anything are often very questionable, which especially interacts really poorly with the day/night cycle. Yes, I can make them go away, but if I make them go away it's a black screen for an uninterrupted 10 or 15 minutes. - R demand split really needs to be "sim gets a -x to happiness if they want a SFH and no SFHs are available", not "an entire tile zoned for town houses will never grow a single building if the demand is all for SFH". - Arbitrary border connections have some serious teething issues, I almost had a traffic death spiral and my traffic was 50%+ "from: east border to: north border" and another 25% or so "from: west border to: north border". Would heartily recommend not building to the tempting alternate super-2 highway placed within your initial tile until your research, budgetary, and tiles unlocked position allows for a loop highway. And because of how travel works, sims spawn from a source and proceed directly to their destination, you can't even push C demand with an interchange-adjacent strip. - Speaking of C demand: It's insisting at me that C demand will not rise because I don't have enough gas stations. Also, I don't have gas stations because C lots are sitting empty because there is no demand.  - Would really like the option to non-destructively rezone within a category, that is, designate x say SFH as "if you can upgrade to townhouses do but don't mass demolish yet". Of course what I really want is a game with nuisance zoning, but even American residential zoning doesn't roll up with a bulldozer when a parcel changes from "fully detached only" to "okay you can have a duplex" - Tram stops: You need them on both sides of the road or the tram will U-turn (!) back to the station. Tram route UI: it will arbitrarily snap to the 5% of screen wide icon that happens to Z-layer on top. - The radio. Dear god, the radio. On the unchanged but I didn't like it in C:S either side: - I still don't think buying tiles is it at all if you're also going to eat major penalties for. At least this is gonna be one of the first mods, too bad I need to wait for them to finish their Workshop competitor.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:54
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Tarnop posted:I think tomorrow I'm going to experiment with my city and try completely ignoring all new low density demand. Did they ever talk about what drives the different residential demand types in a dev diary? I did and it didn't work at all. No demand for subtype, no building, R1 R2 R3 are just as separate as C O. Honestly, those two being entirely separate is pretty depressing too, given how much of my local commercial architecture is reclaimed mills. That in itself is a failure IRL, yeah, but also it's a failure of a simulator to fail to implement failures.
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Oct 25, 2023 01:10
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Tarnop posted:So if you ignore low density residential demand, it suppresses demand for other residential types? Or they happen completely independently? The paradox wiki says families want low density, students and singles want higher but the question is whether it's possible to shape that demand. Can I demolish all my elementary and high schools and still attract people or will I just get a general "bad city" debuff to overall attractiveness to potential new residents? My expectation was suppressed demand for the others, my experience up to around 10k/tier 8 was going "traffic's fucky and because I bought along the coastline I'm actually eating up a lot of usable land I'm gonna zone this new neighborhood dense and hope it takes" followed by the new neighborhood remaining a dark green-shaded nearly empty field. It did grow one building. Sims in that one building, that were of the apparently extremely rare type that would deign to consider living in that building , still had a hefty happiness malus from it being flats. (My hope, since there is an economic system in, was for R demand at all to primarily be governed by the ratio of cheapest rent:sim's expected salary, with a bit of fudge factor based around city growth rate as a proxy for home-as-investment types and the happiness maluses to come in based on job 'quality' vs housing quality.) E: As a synthesis of the reclaimed-mills line and the dense-development line, I would also give a nut to get that other "eh it's more trouble tearing it down" great: I/certain flavors of C pulling "road" access from both rail and road, to represent the short sidings that are everywhere. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Oct 25, 2023 |
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Oct 25, 2023 01:25
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RoyalScion posted:Yeah I think Chirper is either bugged or lags super far behind the simulation; they kept complaining about power/water/sewage even though those services were far under-utilized; my guess was that they were backed up from the very beginning of the game when you're still plopping stuff down. My personal experience is that Chirpr (and the radio interviews) are fluff for a warning indicator rather than any attempt at hinting to you what to prioritize; I've got exactly five (5) houses sitting in the smoke plume from industrial and it never shuts up about smog, likewise about no water when I was sitting at 100KL production, 100,254L demand. bagmonkey posted:Here's a picture of The 5000 Page Thread's official mascot, Jeff. This was taken at night, I also had no problem with building, in fact I kind of enjoyed the white tiles on dark ground contrast That looks fine to me and is far, FAR brighter than what I get, so it's not a monitor issue. I have everything turned to minimum/off, so it wouldn't amaze me if I'm just missing any dynamic/ambient light/reflections and even moonlight is one of those.
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Oct 25, 2023 23:25
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Vahakyla posted:What do you think this is zoned as: This one, though, uh. I'd bet it is zoned, in western citybuilder terms, light I, but without a closer look at the garages it could be the closest match to literally any zone type in C:S2 except light R, low-rent R, or specialty I, and in any case there would be no zoning barriers to building mid R or mixed R/C in it. The 'strip' style development is entirely due to it being a high traffic road without adjacent heavy R/mixed or rail access and thusand a good place for light C no matter what else is allowed there. e: 
Mandoric fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 29, 2023 |
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Oct 29, 2023 15:22
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Also, related to how that Japanese example came about, since 'income' and 'net worth' are notionally tracked, the simulation really should spot non-driving sims an extra 10-20k/year, and let that factor in housing-finding. There will be people who value spacious rooms over the money, and that strip is there for their daily shopping, but there are also people who would rather the treats or a more luxurious flat.
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Oct 29, 2023 15:38
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turn off the TV posted:the simulation does do that, it costs money to drive No, I mean also a big lump cost to flag the individual sim as able to drive (or a big lump SoL boost to flag as unable), and without the ability to drive rejigger happiness to care a lot less about room size and a lot more about what's accessible on foot. Having a big barrier to driving even once and then a smaller barrer to driving once you have also lets not quite enough transit show itself as a happiness penalty rather than downtown suddenly flooding with cars, esp important in that 'not quite enough transit' tends to show itself when downtown floods with cars over something else. Remove the potential for deathspirals of car pref after an accident/bad through traffic rolls.
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Oct 29, 2023 15:57
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Seriously, why and also how the hell are my trams doing this. 
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Nov 1, 2023 02:53
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I figured it out. Tram stops are to the center of the tram not the head, trams will contort like a JoJo character to not block an intersection while loading, andTheOneVader posted:My trams keep going back to the depot carrying passengers and I'm not sure why. trams that twist their way onto the wrong side of the tracks will path through the depot to try to turn back around to the right direction.
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Nov 1, 2023 06:08
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Cygni posted:Yeah getting the tram or bus to stop at just the right spot on a block can be fiddly. Luckily you can click on the stop and move it without having to redo lines. I really wish the light tram/bus stops were just autodrawn where you put a waypoint, honestly. I get the idea of putting down an actual stop and it having to be on a wide sidewalk or something, but "you can move a physical tram stop sign" saves a UI context switch when changing routes at the cost of adding a UI context switch while placing them. I also wish you could just play with existing routes in the same move node/add node way as area borders. And/or that the UI would make it clear that and how you can, slap an edit icon on there in addition to inspect, I'm getting pretty tired of building a new station in a new block of tiles after a new milestone and having to delete and remake routes.
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Nov 1, 2023 09:39
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Trash seems better now, but mail I think is still at least sort of broken. I have a post sorting facility that does absolutely nothing, still. I got mine working by turning off my cargo train terminal.  I appear to have done something that completely broke immigration in my current save. Haven't had any in a year, with large swathes of zoned-but-unbuilt R, huge wealth, and every commercial/industrial building in town begging for more workers. E: Dev mode fixed this. Not doing anything in dev mode, but quit to desktop/reload didn't and quit to desktop/reload with dev mode enabled did.
Mandoric fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Nov 3, 2023 |
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Nov 3, 2023 02:25
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death cob for cutie posted:For some reason my demand for elementary, college and university education is far outstripping my high school demand. It makes sense from a game-rules/player-agency perspective. Elementary is the only job for all 0-12s, high school is an encouraged but not required one for all 13-19s, college/uni is an allowed one for 20-death who completed high school/college, so it's a demand trough--especially if immigration is biased toward singles, who will immediately consume college or uni themselves if they consume any education at all but produce 0s that have to work their way up before they hit HS. The game could try to make continuing education more realistically difficult, in terms of cost or labor capacity before sims just want to go home and lie in bed, but I don't think the devs or the average player are ideologically prepared to admit that comfortably going back for a degree is the domain of people who strictly speaking gain less than average by going back for a degree. And it would mean that the player wouldn't fully see the effect of building up higher education on the workforce until 40 sim years had passed, which, I get that they age n years in a game year but a game year's still a long-rear end time. Of course, the counterpoint to all of this is that there doesn't appear to be anything you can do for uneducated or poorly-educated immigrants or dropouts other than wait until they die off or tax them into exile. I'd like to see a GED cram school addon to the welfare center or something.
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Nov 3, 2023 07:59
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Grand Fromage posted:Not until mods. The game having nothing but 19th century smokestack industry is kind of stupid. I guess the idea is office zones are your clean workplaces, instead of the SimCity 4 method of having high tech industry that didn't pollute, but it doesn't make much sense. There should be all kinds of light industrial stuff and manufacturing that isn't just pouring poison into the air and ground and can be mixed into the city. Multiple industrial zone types would be nice. Yeah, I'd kill for a light/medium/heavy I continuum: Light as moderate to strong noise and nil to weak air/ground, held back by only handling the final step before consumer use and by being either low wage/high employment per tile (textiles, food) or high wage/low employment per tile (machining, garages) Medium as moderate in all pollution categories, produces most technical goods/pharma, largeish buildings per job, requires higher education Heavy as the stuff you absolutely have to put downwind and with a significant greenspace buffer, focused heavily towards large plots with lots of decently-paying jobs in extraction or raw material processing With a final setup that envisions light woven into mixed-use neighborhoods, medium ending up in certain strips, and heavy as entire districts down an exit or on the worse parts of the waterfront.
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Nov 4, 2023 19:28
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Turbo stalled out, and wew the game does not make it at all obvious why. Happiness is a net +36, +17 from wealth alone. Residential taxes are nil, there are approximately an entire population worth of unfilled jobs in level 3 or higher workplaces, most of which still have room for even uneducated/poorly educated. Zone demand, meanwhile, is a flat 0 across the board. While the new residential district is a far haul from the industrial area, it's got light rail all the way out at a low-but-proving-it's-working 10% ridership, and in addition even the old residential district refuses to grow any houses in new zones at any density. In fact, my entire drat city (except for the under-grade highway feeding the new residential area!) is shown at 0 suitability for residential except for the first few minutes after a reload, from downtown high-rise blocks to tiny low-density outposts that are just every amenity possible, a few zoned tiles, and a highway straight to work. I guess it might be a lack of light commercial and thus of gas stations? I literally have a km-long strip of nothing but gas stations, that's all that grew when I made one of everything off the end of my grid.
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Nov 6, 2023 18:21
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Cities don't just spring up ex nihilo. They spring up because of resources, or because of being a convenient place to put a harbor/freight yard/warehousing for the resources, or by being a day's ox- or horse-cart or a fuel tank's drive somewhere between the two. C:S2 doesn't do a particularly good job at dealing with this for a nonexhaustive variety of reasons: - You're stuck with a strictly post-1789 pre-1917 idea of the urban remit in terms of guiding how resources are used; no matter how you zone, there's absolutely nothing short of bulldoze and reroll (and even that's an accuracy stretch) to make sure that i.e. the I and C on Chicken Farm Street entirely convert Livestock into Food and Food into Prepared Food, nor is there any way to encourage say Prepared Food leaving by rail from its inland stretch while only C-finishable and finished goods coming in by ship for the workers to work on or consume downtown. Your depot and harbor will fill up with absolutely everything, including imported garbage, and your roads will clog with trucks shifting these unneeded interstitials between each other on the most absurd routes. - One moderately sized map, neighbors only as amorphous "trade links" means that if anything, you're best completely abandoning an effort to do focused logistics and spreading I on the edge of the map where the pollution goes to Someone Else's Problem Land and an 8-laner every block or two obviates traffic engineering. Sure, there's a spot on your map that is Coal Town, but it probably will not produce enough coal for even a moderately-sized city's needs and even if it did the simulation is as apt to pull from the border as from it. - Also, since neighbors are amorphous trade links and the options aren't even unlocked until well into the game, there's absolutely no driver to be a middleman city of the kind that doesn't have to be concerned with resources other than "the simulation will make you one whether you like it or not". There is no "pick the spot at the mouth of the river, and the rest of the region has to export through you", no "wet your beak on the convergence of ten regional rail lines into a trunk".
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Nov 6, 2023 19:44
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It'd also give whatever hinting the engine does toward "use this stuff, it's cheap" a chance to shine, and give you a bit of a transit breather as you moved into the midgame (as you'd already have specced high throughput to the borders to move higher quantities of raw materials to support the extractive industries, and less bulky intermediate goods would be replacing it.)
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Nov 6, 2023 20:04
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buglord posted:My two other pain points, aside from the big one of it being a city painter, is that service building designs and sizes are pretty ridiculous thematically. Making realistic farmland is pretty dire, too. Everything’s so clean at low wealth levels, too. You really cant make busted up ag/rust belt towns. I don’t know why they’re so allergic to that. I do kinda feel like this is par for the course, to the extent that the starter fire and police are surprisingly good for the genre. (Would absolutely love to be able to place single-tile koban and cisterns, for quick response to small problems that doesn't care about traffic, though.) What are the rest of you doing for specialist industries? It does feel, with the "contiguous box" setup and the very low employment, that they're not actually supposed to be one to two per resource patch. But how small should they go? E: Gas. Stations.      These are four separate areas in a city of 90k. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 6, 2023 |
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Nov 6, 2023 21:17
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Jyrraeth posted:Same. I always just use the steepest ramp in CS1 and just went "pretend its stairs" in my head for this reason. You could also take it in the other direction for cold maps, Montreal-style. Or even Tokyo-style, doesn't necessarily have to be for weather if the land value is obscene. Now I want a superlight C zone type that can be zoned alongside foot-only tunnels.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:41
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Nitrousoxide posted:There's no subway in CS:2? There is, but it's locked behind a lot more progression, a lot more money/land area per depot when counting curve restrictions, and station C is limited to a platform kiosk building addon.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:50
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Jyrraeth posted:I searched for "Montreal style +15" and got nothing but BAGELS on google image search. I guess Montreal calls it the Underground City if Wikipedia is to believed? Totally agree with the superlight C zone, its not much of a thing when I was last living in Calgary but they're fairly common here in Vancouver. Yeah, "opposite direction" in that rather than skyways between the downtown buildings, pedestrian tunnels between the downtown core buildings and their nearest metro stations eventually grew into something very like a huge -10 (and -15 and -20!) mall. Getting the full mall aspect would require a serious rethink of high-density C/O to have models that could connect both at street level and underground, to take delivery of significant amounts of goods, but service and low-volume C would "just" need the engine to support zoning at multiple Z levels. (this might not actually be any easier TBH) Oh, relatedly, since there's already a no trucks ordinance and already transit logic for running day, night, or day/night, I'd love to be able to declare "no trucks 6:00~18:00" for downtown C and "no trucks 18:00~6:00" for residential.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:17
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turn off the TV posted:are you using the maximum lot size? that's what the largest footprint of NA low density commercial buildings are modeled after, iirc they start to look like that at around level 4/5. the game should have had something like rowhouse style commercial for strip malls though. My gas station districts are zoned 6 deep and 250m-1km+ wide, it's definitely not just zoning in free space and getting the only small buildings. The UI tooltips for zone demand list specifically gas station presence as a factor, I'm assuming its trying its best to fulfill whatever it sees for that. Ironically they're refusing to pop at all on the 2-3 deep spots I have to the side of my main industrial drag, where they'd be realistically useful. Most are on intra-settlement stretches, but one is just on a grid spur out toward (but not reaching) the border that I'm using to keep everything aligned.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:02
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Pillars were my experience as well. Gotta start in the middle of a segment instead of at a corner, and manually click in the middles as well.
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Nov 8, 2023 23:12
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The idea of rotaries at every entrance was a great one, traffic isn't even flowing any faster but people sure do like inching forward more than they do waiting for a stoplight. Now I have 100% C demand maxed, still nothing anywhere else except for a hint of light R. Don't think I'm going to fulfill that one given that I've around 300k job openings and 100k workers to do them.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:25
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I have the opposite problem, everyone and every company is horrifically wealthy and therefore everything is stuck in molasses because land values are so high that no one will move in to work the 15/20 empty slots at the several hundred level 4 gas stations.
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Nov 10, 2023 01:48
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Tarnop posted:Bulldoze their houses and build a landfill This includes the low-amenity Khryuschyovkas on an 8-lane road overlooking nothing but a commercial harbor. 
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Nov 10, 2023 02:21
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Golden mod idea: independent of the actual maintenance state of the road, increase the background color from 0x202020 to 0xb0b0b0 over two years and decrease the alpha channel of the paint from 0xff to 0x1f or so over ten years since its most recent maintenance.
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Nov 12, 2023 03:23
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 07:03 |
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nielsm posted:It's way too easy to accidentally get two roads ever so slightly misaligned and then you lose a cell of zoning because they're at 90.01 degrees to each other. I get a bunch of busses from other cities. They're just all thru traffic, and all like to ignore the bypass and cruise directly through downtown. Fishstick posted:Why do I even need to make a line and railyard for neighbouring train connections? Let them come to me, use your own trains you cheapskates. Yeah, but only when you get out to the "true" border.
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Nov 14, 2023 13:59
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